/lit/ - Literature

>>12806974
No and neither will you. Delete this e-celeb thread.

>>12806974
Ben Shapiro is a fucking retard.

inb4 muh sjw muh freemarket muh Israel

A smart man to brainlets.
A brainlet to smart men.

>>12806974
how many sides does history have?

>>12806974
Shilling his Straussian, Judeo-Christian(fucking made-up term), gatekeeping manual

He has literally nothing original or interesting to say

>>12806974

>reading anything written by a manlet

wew

Every time I listen to him talk he annoys me, I fucking hate his voice.

>>12807309
He is your typical blowhard who is reading everything off a neocon cue card. Everything he says is completely predictable. Idiots think hes smart because he can talk fast.

>>12807392
This.

>>12807396
I just can't understand his appeal. He's the most boring, milquetoast neocon shill ever. I thought we banished Ben Shapiro's ideology to the shadow realm after Dubya's second term was over, but apparently it's back now.

>>12807396
He almost got beaten up by a tranny

>>12807396
This.
Easier to bullshit when you talk fast.

>>12806974
I would rather kill myself.

>Ben "6'1" Shapiro

>>12807453
>The chad manlet
>The virgin lobster

>>12807411
neocons should hang

>>12807453
>Don't ever debate me or my son ever again

its a good book. i read it the day it came out.

it summarizes the western philosophy nicely

>>12806974
I wonder how badly Ben "let me mutilate your dick" Shapiro will get stomped in this.

>>12807058
you're a faggot to all

>>12807418
you mean jenner threatened him?

>>12806974
Give me one (1) reason why I should give a single fuck about what this milquetoast classical liberal has to say.

>>12807547
Nah, so other tranny

He loves talking about those "Judeo-Christian values" as if Jews had fuck all to do with building western civilization. He's another one of those "conservatives" who had no problem attacking the Covington kids until that blew up in his face.

>>12807617
>as if Jews had fuck all to do with building western civilization

um, they kinda did :)

>>12807560
>classical liberal

>>12807633
Yeah, they bought a bunch of African slaves and left them here. Gee thanks.

>>12807660
Talk about a selective memory lmao.

>>12807634
Are you implying that commitment to free markets, juridical equality, and representative government are not the hallmarks of classical liberalism?

>>12807691
Read Mill, but first delete your shitty e-celeb thread
turbofaggot

>>12807671
built it as a 3000 year planned cattle farmed, cool stuff jew

>>12807728
What Ben Shapiro and his ilk fancy themselves to be preserving, as "conservatives", is the fundamentally liberal order of Locke, Smith, Bentham, Mill and the rest. This should not be in dispute.

also not my thread retard

I listened to about a half hour of Ben in conversation with Jordan Peterson. It was disturbing.

Both claimed to be defenders of the Enlightenment and scientific ("objective") truth.

JP outlined his particular reductionist explanation of religion ("Richard Dawkins leads right into Jung!) Which was, if anything, early 20th century reductionist ("I am not being a reductionist, because religion is a very strange phenomenon").

Both agreed that it is the Left which forces narratives upon history. Neither seemed aware of the positivist nature of their own position (Ben spoke of the telos of history, JP described the assent of man through heirarchical epochs culminating in the rational individual).

Neither seemed even slightly aware of the critiques of progress narratives (whether logical positivism, Marxism, fascist ideology or capitalism) prominent since the end of WWII.

Both professed a commitment to the Enlightenment despite coming from traditions (Judaism and psychoanalytis) which are at odds with the idea of a rationally independent individual. Neither attempted to explain such an antagonism. Ben made reference to natural theology and the existence of rationality as a deliberate consequence of God. One wonders whether or not he thinks Moses and the mitzvot are all that important.

It is concerning to me that these individuals continue to have the ear of persons who in previous decades would have watched the Discovery Channel and read articles in Time Magazine to obtain their ideas-fix. Now they turn to novelty mixed with political claims developed along a sense of history comparable to what the average college freshman possesses.

He's got impressive debating skills and if he wrote a book about those, I'd consider buying. This? Nah.

>>12806974
No he's just a manlet that talks fast

>>12807691
>commitment to free market
neocon imperialism isn't a free market kiddo

>>12807876
If killing your offspring is 'empowering' and 'liberating', how many women will do it? Positive words have effects. Human mimics align their behavior according to them, so you can expect the trend to continue.

>>12807876
>neocon

you don't even know what this word means. And while it's true the market isn't now free in the Smithian sense, the separation of ownership and control and the tendency towards corporate consolidation is the inevitable product of economic liberalism. Bourgeois and transnational progressivism are just its cultural and diplomatic manifestations.

>>12807819
>It is concerning to me that these individuals continue to have the ear of persons who in previous decades would have watched the Discovery Channel and read articles in Time Magazine to obtain their ideas-fix. Now they turn to novelty mixed with political claims developed along a sense of history comparable to what the average college freshman possesses.

>>12807309
I'm not a fan of Benlet but just because what he has to say isn't original doesn't mean that there isn't value in repackaging it for a new audience

>>12807380
>not reading Kant
wew

>>12807923
Prior to the internet certain ideas, texts and vocabularies were largely confined to academia.

Common persons could of course access them in dusty volumes in large libraries, and certain magazines might explore them in features or television specials.

I do not care if this smacks of elitism at all.

The last book I read that was written by a jew was the bible. I think that's enough

>>12807460
Is hair transplant a do-it-once permanent thing or does it require maintenance?

>>12808139
Maintenance for the rest of your life from what I've read. You may also need to have hair re-transplanted again if your fucked.

>>12807487
Holy shit.

>>12807933
The value is lost when all what he has to say is fucking dumb shit

>>12808116
spoken like a true elitist

Where’s Abigail?

>>12807972
FUCKING KANTFAGS FUCK OFF ALREADY

Why would I? If I want to read shit I'll read YA or Harry Potter.

>>12808257
I know we need the pic of her being surprised by my dick :3

I like watching Shapiro rustle jimmies on news channels. It's amusing. Aside from that, he clearly prepares and seems to be an alright guy, but you can tell the Harvard degree adds to his already sizable arrogance.

>>12807058
A smart man if he agrees with me.
A dumb man if he disagrees with me.

>>12806974

Retard with delusions of being anything other than a pseud manlet.

>>12806974

He is LARPING as a 13 year old boy with his retard opinions and child-like body.

>>12808654
Yes but he also brought us his sisters glorious Khazar milkers.

>>12807560
Your own curiosity.

>>12806974
I got the gist from dr phil

>>12807819
>Richard Dawkins leads right into Jung!
Please don't tell me he really said that

>>12807487
5000+ shares. Team Yang on fi’a

>>12808490
>0
You’ve seen what a zero on the chart gets you, right?

>>12808687
didnt his parents do that?

>>12810394
Hehe. Cute.

A 0 gets you Ben Shapiro himself. And I don't give a fuck about Ben Shapiro.

You certainly do act cat-and-mousey recently. Do you want me to continue dominating you until you are on all fours in your apartment begging for me?

>>12810379
He literally was attempting to argue that Dawkin's notion of a genetic meme applied to the Holy Spirit. I am not even joking. The argument went something like this:

Dominance heirarchies lead to hero archetypes. Consciousness emerges at some point in evolution (he seems to describe this as a left brain - right brain meeting). Naturally consciousness leads to a greater ability to achieve success in dominance heirarchies, and this fact combined with sexual selection created a consciousness meme which eventually replicated itself in all persons. Since hero archetypes are seen as universal goods, the voice of the good (the Holy Spirit) present in consciousness has thus been accounted for.

>>12808610
Not what was said.

>>12810394
hey btw anything good on Netflix
:3

>very dumb jew talking at incredible hihg speed

>>12807150
The title is referring to Obama saying he is on the right side of history, unlike the political right.

>>12807302
Literally every term is made up.

Sage for shitty thread

Has anyone in here actually read the stupid book? Anything interesting in it? 70 fucking posts in and not a single comment about the actual content of the book.

>>12806974
uwu and it's epub https://b-ok.xyz/book/3712519/7a27a8

>>12807691
>classic liberalism
Just stop

Holy shit

"Civilizations that rejected Jerusalem and Athens, and the tension between them, have collapsed into dust. The USSR rejected Judeo-Christian values and Greek natural law, substituting the values of the collective and a new utopian vision of “social justice”—and they starved and slaughtered tens of millions of human beings."

How can you be against entropy and for race mixing?

"In America, especially, with our unique history and success, we have long seen progress and prosperity as our birthright. The conflicts that tear apart other nations are not for us; we certainly don’t need to worry about revolution or collapse. We’re America. We’re different.
That sanguine view is utterly wrong. The fight against entropy is never over."

>>12811251
>China
>Japan
>India

"We are in the process of abandoning Judeo-Christian values and Greek natural law, favoring moral subjectivism..."

>>12811268
Even in Europe descartes specifically argued against scholastic aristotelian worship, monarchist worked for centuries, 1 party republicanism works, and this obsession with saying christianity is Jewish in order to say European history is Jewish. Any morals about christianity came from Plato not theJews, Alexandria attacked antiochan christianity and ot never saw the light of day after nicae

Every single one of these had more in line with the enlightenment than the Greeks and the Jews can go fuck themselves for trying to puppy dog on the list
"Jerusalem and Athens built science. The twin ideals of Judeo-Christian values and Greek natural law reasoning built human rights. They built prosperity, peace, and artistic beauty. Jerusalem and Athens built America, ended slavery, defeated the Nazis and the Communists, lifted billions from poverty, and gave billions spiritual purpose. Jerusalem and Athens were the foundations of the Magna Carta and the Treaty of Westphalia; they were the foundations of the Declaration of Independence, Abraham Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation, and Martin Luther King Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail."

>>12808610
Not what he meant but this is unironically true as well.

>>12807411
East Coast Straussians are unironically based

What is he even saying at this point?

"We believe we can reject Judeo-Christian values and Greek natural law and satisfy ourselves with intersectionality, or scientific materialism..."

Someone tell me what has happened in the past two centuries that has contradicted our Greek roots because he's making that claim

"We’ve spent the last two centuries carving ourselves off from the roots of our civilization."

I'm done

"In the pre-Biblical era, you were invested with meaning by your place in the social structure. In the Hammurabi Code, only the king was described as created in God’s image; the closer you were to the king, the more rights you had.
Not so in the Bible. The key phrase—the beginning of Western civilization—lies in Genesis 1:26: we are all made in God’s image."

>>12811309
What, are you just quoting shit from the introduction? Read the damn book if you want his argument.

>>12811364
Stop being Christian. It's all a hoax. A psyops.

>>12806974
It's surreal to live at this time, people pretend like politics matter when everything is tied in with business and every incentive is literally money, political talking heads writing a book full of reguritation aimed at their respective consumers/target audience, working class people being the only people who actually believe in their respective ideologies while everyone else is in it solely for the money, those who make a buck realize this and exploit it, the consumers go online to spew out quotes and memes from whatever side they're on, all categorization of good and bad is in the form of baby talk: small good, big bad, left or right good or bad, they go online or sometimes even outside to "protest" which involves peacefully yelling slogans at buildings as their government sanctioned heroes - martin luther king or gandhi - supposedly did, while their enemies close the blinds - if they do anything at all - before getting back to business, if you had any semblance of power right now, could you imagine a safer landscape? People are so complacent, so full of labels and so free of any action that one is practically guaranteed the freedom to do anything to them at this point, the only threat is the competition. It's surreal.

>mfw there are unironically people in this thread who aren't moral nihilists

>>12811556
So many universal claims. You are making it easy for me. I only have to make an existential claim to btfo your """argument""".

>>12807819
These are the people that make up the """Intellectual Dark Web"""

>>12807819
>It is concerning to me that these individuals continue to have the ear of persons who in previous decades would have watched the Discovery Channel and read articles in Time Magazine to obtain their ideas-fix.
What do you expect when everything that is sold is destruction of the west and various kinds of nihilism.

>>12811611
So cool brah, you like, dont think anything is wrong, like, that is so edgy and punk maa-aaa-aan

>>12811664
name one (1) wrong thing

>>12811664
I can't objectively proof that my intellectual conviction is "edgy", "punk" or "cringe".
Morality is about how things ought to be, not how things are. Science can't breach the is-ought gap. However, this does not make me unable to create and adhere to my own subjective moral system.

>>12806974
dumb jew

Never forget that he had no problem pretending Trump dog whistled support for the KKK on national television or that Corey Lewandowski attacked that girl even after the video game out. He will never stop being a Jew.

>>12810565
I find it to be a plausible progression. Incomplete but not necessarily wrong. I've read Peterson, Dawkins and a lot of history of early hominids.

>>12807820
his "debating skills" is just him talking faster and in a higher pitch than others. As well pretty much exclusively "debating" ill-prepared college students.

>>12812332
Considering he's a Harvard lawyer he probably has some proficiency in rhetoric and debate. It is a part of their job training, after all.

>>12812363
talking down to others is not debate

>>12812424
What are you, a woman?

>>12807487
is it even possible to logically and rationally defend neonatal circumcision? Literally every single material benefit people have attributed to it has been debunked. The body of evidence that it causes permanent harm, past the point of reducing a man's ability to feel pleasure permanently and the risk associated that sees about one in one hundred patients experiencing some sort of complication has been steadily growing.

The only way you can defend the practice is if you couch it in the language of tradition and one's right to inflict whatever body modification upon a child that cannot legally consent to it that one wishes. There was someone who made a post on reddit asking how he could make naruto whisker scars on his baby with a scalpel and people were furious, but how is circumcision any different if you put aside the part of the bible where god says to do it (and the original rite was much less invasive than modern circumcision, it was such a loose cut that one could very easily stretch the foreskin back out to disguise it, later rabbinical traditions are what gave us the modern procedure).

>>12812363
I wonder how much his parents paid to get him into Harvard.

>>12812485
>doesn't have a counter, only a standard sexist insult

you guys are so boring LMFAO

>>12812517

https://sti.bmj.com/content/76/6/474

>>12812542
ROFLMAO

>>12812542
There's nothing to counter. You're whining about Ben's perceived "talking down to others" as if it's relevant to debate and rhetorical skills. That's you acting like a women when she loses an argument. Instead of addressing what's being argued, you cry about the tone of the speaker.

I can't read

>>12812517
Not sure you live in America but men subject to it basically live their lives in a kind of dissonance fantasy where it is 100% good and turns you into superman and can never be anything else or anything bad.

>>12812567
STD nonsense is an attempt to re-contextualize genital mutilation and pathologize male sexual organs and subsequently sexual pleasure. Very convenient since you can cook up whatever results you want as long as you ignore what your doing and why it even exists.

>>12812569
and yet here you are appealing to the authority of the great grand Harvard lawyer trope, rather than countering my basis that he just takes over people rather than engaging with them and their ideas, instead rehash same arguments. Why hasn't he debated Richard Wolffe, why hasn't he debated Rutger Bergman? I'll tell you because he'll lose immediately

>>12812643
You said Ben doesn't have any skills in debate or that his skills amount to talking fast. This is a ridiculous claim because he went to one of the best universities in the world and studied a field which requires skill in debate. He has some skill in debate regardless of whether you like him and his tone or whether he debates who you want him to.

>>12807487
BASED Yang

I'm pissed of all these fucking faggot gurus defending the "values of western civilization that are being attacked by decandent postmodernists" or some shit like that.
This is just the natural outcome of capitalism, this isn't the fault of evil leftists or cultural marxism or postmodernists. The west that Peterson, Shapiro and all these faggots defend will never come back and that's due to the way capitalism progresses. Yet these guys are just leeches of the capitalist system and their sole goal is to turn you into a obedient normie wage slave. And look at their audience, the base of the social hierarchy, a bunch of men let back and discarded by the system searching for something to blame. They have converted politics in a meme war: meaningless labels, groups of people blaming between themselves in a useless fight while the system goes on unbothered.

>>12812712
Please tell me what the necessary connection between free markets and transsexual acceptance is.

>>12812731
Breaking down the strictures of traditional values wherever they appear as they stand as non-material barrier to capital dissolution into the human bloodstream; it is the final preparation for the battle to own the human soul itself

>>12812667
just because you attended a good university, doesn't translate to intelligence, its easy to game academia

>>12812712
Can you tell us of capitalist authors that discussed about
>multiculturalism before Adorno
>repressive tolerance before Marcuse
>patriarchy theory and virility autoritaro-sexist before Fromm
>the victimhood olympics before Horkheimer
>the critical deconstruction of "white" institutions before Sartre and Fanon
?

>>12812758
We're not arguing that he's intelligent, we're talking about whether he has skill in debate. Somebody going to a university and studying a subject is a reason to believe they have some knowledge of that subject.

>>12812772
Can you share the quotes for these things?
Guaranteed you have no clue what Marcuse was talking about with tolerance.

>>12806974
>reason and moral purpose
Is his argument that no other civilization had these?

>>12812757
I wonder where they could possibly got that idea from

>>12812757
What the fuck is this? You haven't explained anything. I want to know how allowing free markets necessarily leads to transgender acceptance. If you're going to throw out random assertions without reason then just piss off because I'm not interested in hearing it.

>>12812772
>>12812788
The authors you quote didn't cause the problems you mention. They are rather a symptom of their epoch: capitalism dismantling the hitherto moral and spiritual order.

>>12812781
and I keep telling you, talking over others at a fast paced is not a skilled rhetorician. its just aimlessly drowning out the opponent

>>12812783
>Tolerance, which is the mark of a free society, can only be won under the prevailing conditions of the tyranny of the majority in the sustained effort of the radical minorities ... intolerant minorities, militantly intolerant and disobedient to the rules of behavior that tolerate destruction and suppression.
the following quote is not a continuation
>These conditions impose on radical minorities a strategy that is essentially a refusal to allow the continued functioning of an allegedly blind but in fact discriminatory tolerance... tolerance[must] be restricted with regard to manifestly aggressive or destructive movements. Movements that oppose the extension of social legislation to the poor, the weak, the disabled... tolerating propaganda for inhumanity vitiates the objectives not only of liberalism but of any progressive political philosophy

>>12807819

Of course all grand bullshit is bullshit.

The difference between left and right bullshit is that right bullshit usually tries to justify what people do in the absence of coercion while left bullshit usually tries to justify coercion.

>>12812816
I do believe that the West was already on the path of destruction and that these authors had not much to do with it, it would have happened without them either way
but their ideas are still used either by their heirs in academia or amoral capitalists ironically using them to assert even more their power. I myself have nothing against marxists

>>12812837
though obviously I am not one

>>12812819
We're not arguing over whether talking over people is good and effective rhetoric, we're talking about whether Ben has any skill in debate.

>>12812797
Not him, but let me dumb it down for you. I'm sure you would admit that the free market has led to the commodification of everything (People buy things to signal what their identity is), this is just a continuation of that. Gender has become a commodity that can be bought and every year for "homo pride month" or whatever every major corporation changes their social media pages to rainbow flags for free advertisement and a bump in profits just for being accepting.

>>12812844
oh for fucks sake. Talking fast=not skilled debater

>>12812819
Every debate should start with every participant snorting some high dose adderall

>>12812858
So now you admit that he has some skill in debate?

>>12812593

I just showed you were wrong, and you respond with that bullshit? It was a scientific study. The foreskin is a warm, wet place: a perfect breeding ground for bacteria. Most meta studies show an increase in probability of std transmission in men with a foreskin. You want your children to have an increased risk of STDs, be my guest and leave that boy uncircumcised. You’re like a vaxxer but less dangerous.

>>12812863

>>12812797
What is hard to understand about capitalism destroying the traditional values? It's obvious that economy alters our lifestyle and values. Since to a global free market, moral values, nationality, spiritual order mean nothing or are even restrictions, they are doomed to slowly die.

>>12812851
Explain to me how this commodification is a necessary problem of free markets and not an accidental one. I don't buy things and make them a part of my identity so what happened?

>>12812712
>the "values of western civilization that are being attacked by decandent postmodernists"
It's kind of true that they are, but people like Shapiro or Peterstein are humorously unaware of their own role in this attack and only serve to reinforce it.

>>12812876
You assert that capitalism NECESSARILY destroys traditional values but you don't give me any reason to believe it. Real world examples of traditional values being destroyed only shows us that capitalism accidentally destroys traditional values, meaning it's not something that must happen under a free market. It could conceivably not have happened the way it did.

>>12812883
>I don't buy things and make them a part of my identity
Yes you do, it's just become so normalized within culture you never even consider it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z5_uHOONNE

>>12812906
Well if that's all you have to say, I'm not convinced of anything you said. You have no idea who I am so I don't know how you could even begin to make such a claim. There's no reason to it so I reject it.

>>12812897
>Real world examples
Give us that examples

>>12806974
I wonder if he actually is an adult.

>>12812919
There's plenty of material out there you can read or watch. But if you only want to learn from anonymous posters on 4chan I guess that's your decision.

>>12812873
>Being so retarded you don't understand what a re-contexualization and socially constructed pathologization is.
>Hurr durr my science
It literally destroys 90% of the feeling and sexual pleasure in your genitals dumbass. Those same studies also say that it would never be ethical to subject children to, as well as having a prophylaxis so in-effective it results in random chance (and they say you should still always wear a condom regardless). You also can't legally get cough syrup on a store shelf with the degree of prophylaxis they allege. Its all just misdirection and slight of hand to reassure deluded idiots like yourself there's nothing wrong with you. Just like the hundreds of other bullshit reasons people have cooked up over the past 100+ years.

>>12812923
Did you just not understand anything I've said? Real world examples are completely irrelevant to question of whether free markets necessarily lead to the abandonment of tradition values. Real world examples can only show us that free markets accidentally destroy traditional values.

>>12812816
>>12812772
What is the mainstream Japanese, Korean, Singaporean, Taiwanese, Chinese etc. equivalent of multiculturalism as a virtue, repressive tolerance, victimhood olympics, critical deconstruction of *-ness (outside of the few crazies who started Anti-Japaneseism)?

You're attributing something to capitalism that really should be attributed to America. In a world without America we would not observe these philosophies rising to prominence.

>>12812897
Dude simple as that.
>Be mr. Capitalist
>want more money
>make women also workers to get more profits
>boss queen#SLAAAAYY XD

>>12812948
That's an accidental connection between capitalism and the destruction of traditional values and not a necessary one.

>>12812897
It happened mostly in the West, you don't see that happening in muslim countries (they even seem to go deeper in traditionalism) or even the chinks that are trying to reverse the cultural damage done by Mao
But on the other hand today's most traditional european countries where behind the iron curtain when the USSR was still a thing (Poland, Hungary for instance)

>>12812961
Okay, so? I'm looking for a reason to think there's a necessary connection between capitalism and the destruction of traditional values.

>>12812957
If one sees a way to make more profits it chooses it. It will happen sooner or later.

>>12812965
I'm just agreeing with you, the answer is not that easy

>>12812961
To be fair, the rise of Islamism had been sponsored by the US to oppose Russian-backed Islamic Socialists (what mattered was the pro-Russian bit, not the Socialism).

>>12812971
could they have sponsored the rise of multiculturalists, thirld-worldists and deconstructionists also?

>>12812961
>But on the other hand today's most traditional european countries where behind the iron curtain when the USSR was still a thing (Poland, Hungary for instance)
They are so because they believe the naive lie that you can have "national" capitalism but somehow it won't bite them in the ass if there is profit to be made.

>>12812947
Do you not know that capitalism, in its demand for constant growth and progress, has halted the japanese population and is necessitating them to take in foreigners? Do you think they have no concept of racism (人類差別). Recently a drunk guy on a plane started talking about how he hates koreans and it made national news. 日本人論 is completely debunked and is the elephant in the room in Japan's war-time past.
>victimhood olympics
Nigger Japanese, Chinese, and Koreans are constantly in a three-way shit-flinging contest about this.
You have no idea what you are talking about.

>>12812978
Yes, and they did.

>>12812966
A necessary connection is something that absolutely must happen, while an accidental connection is something that could or could not happen regardless of whether that something actually happens 100% of the time. If something could conceivable not happen, then it isn't necessary.

I'm looking for a necessary connection between capitalism and the destruction of traditional values. If somebody at some time and place could every possibly reject the prospect of earning a profit, then your example is not necessary, it's accidental.

>>12812947
>Japanese, Korean, Singaporean, Taiwanese, Chinese

These societies are fucked up in their own way. High suicides rates, low birth rate, slavery, millions of social recluses, fucked up environment.

>>12812996
Well it must than happen. Opening borders for instance gives you cheap labor which will give you higher profits. Jesus, Ted was right about conservatives.

>>12812980
The Chinese/Japanese/Korean mutual hate is in no way equivalent to Western identity politics because in the latter case the elite are cultivating minority resentment to use as a pretext for power expansion and centralization whereas the former case is based on historical grienvances/rivalries.

>>12813001
Okay, but they don't have the equivalent of the things I cited, and the point I was making is that you're attributing to capitalism what really ought to be attributed to America.

>>12813008
Let's put it this way, if America became the USSA we'd still have repressive tolerance, victimhood olympics, patriarchy theory, deconstruction of whiteness, and so on. These things are as American as apple pie.

>>12813008
Shifting the goal-posts now I see. How is the identity politics any different, other than that there are more minorities in a huge country that had a large population of minorities since its inception and japan had a national image of homogeneity that Meiji reformers pushed for? Do you think politicians in Okinawa don't use minority issues to expand their political power? Just because you don't know the issues and see all of Asia as one big yellow bloc doesn't mead there are no problems with minority rights or an idea of multiculturalism.

>>12813007
Do you understand the point I made about it being possible that somebody at some point in time might not be interested in earning a profit? If such a person could possibly exist in any form then there isn't a necessary connection between capitalism and open borders.

I support free markets but not at the cost of open borders. Such a person does exist.

>>12812996
>If somebody at some time and place could every possibly reject the prospect of earning a profit

That's the problem, this doesn't happen. The biggest "degenerates" aren't sjw at universities but the ruling class.

>>12813008
>they don't have the equivalent of the things I cited
These things are the equivalent. The spiritual crisis caused by capitalism manifesting itself in just a different way and anyway things could go very similar. If japs don't accept immigrants in the following years they will stagnate even more.

>>12813054
>it being possible that somebody at some point in time might not be interested in earning a profit?
I smell a fucking commie. Enjoy your helicopter ride.

>>12813054
He might not be but than an other person does and he's the one who climbs the hierachy, earns more profits and expands his business. "Traditional" values aren't rewarded by the system and ones who behave in such ways will get out of business sooner or later.

>>12813092
That can be true but it isn't what I'm asking for. Look dude, if you want to keep talking to me I need you to tell me what you think the terms "necessary" and "accidental" mean because I don't think we're speaking the same language,

>>12813124
Necessary means that it needs to happen to function, accidental means it might happen. And yes, things like open borders and women at work are necessary as time moves on.

>>12813140
Yeah, we can't talk to each other. There's a genuine divide.

>>12813070
Ok, as you're a Communist and I'm not I don't think I'll ever be able to convince you that the things you attribute to capitalism are attributable to historical contingencies and American global power (and vice versa for your position) so let's just not bother.

>>12811664
this but unironically

>>12813172
Look, this guy pointed it pretty well >>12813092
Somebody will defend both free market and traditional values but he will extinguish since there are more rewarding mechanisms that he's not using.

>>12812947
But America is the strong arm of captial. Say what you will about Japanese, Korean, Singaporean, Taiwanese, Chinese but they are not the free market style capitalism that you find in the west all the time either.

Reading this thread I conclude that Ted was right about conservatives. What will they say now? Will they call Ted a commie??

>>12813240
Sure, I mean it's not like they are actually going to learn anything any time soon.

>>12813240
Conservatives aren't the sharpest folks out there.

>>12813240
Orwell made a similar case before in Road to Wigan Pier, but conservatives didn't read that too except for the part where socialists get shit on for being weird

>>12813240
How come muslim countries haven't seen these "rapid changes" yet? Further, it seems radicalists and traditionalists adopted it quite well... I'm not in disagreement about the role played by technology but it might be an overtly simplistic analysis

>>12812939
Shit like this is why I can't get behind the anti-circumcision crowd. It starts out with a decent point about any benefits being medically ambiguous and then jumps straight to claiming it causes PTSD, it makes sex 1/10th as good, and other shit. I'd be along for the ride if the argument was, "Ancient tribal rites of genital distinction are no longer relevant to society and shouldn't be encouraged." But for some reason people treat it like circumcision is equivalent to shaking babies, the escalation is too suspicious to ignore.

>>12812593
I live in America and am circumcised. My mom's rationale for it was "my dad didn't get circumcised until later and he said it hurt a lot so I wanted to spare you the pain" not even considering that not cutting off part of my penis was also an option.

>>12807487
Oh yeah fuck Shapiro and let the YANG GANG overtake

>>12812567
This is a non-argument. Don't fuck nasty disease ridden skanks and you will not get STDs, gonorrhea and chlamydia don't just spontaneously emerge in the foreskin. There are alternatives to permanent body modification to achieve a reduced rate of sexual disease. Even if this holds true, how do you counter the fact that circumcision is a gross violation of bodily autonomy inflicted upon a child who is incapable of consenting to basically any other activity involving that organ aside from urinating until he is 18?

Let me be clear, I don't resent my parents for circumcising me. They exist within a culture where it was, at the time, considered to be a non-conversation, it was simply something that was done to children. But as an adult I understand it as a fundamentally unjust procedure when inflicted on a person who has not reached an age of sexual maturity or the age of sexual consent. Neonatal circumcision being the most morally abhorrent variation of this tradition. Circumcision is an incestuous act of sexual violence with permanent consequences. I cannot see any defense of this practice which is both rational and reasonable.

>>12813396
Circumcision is literally child abuse, in what other context is it considered permissible to permanently remove parts of an infant's body for no justifiable medical reason?

>>12806974
He has nothing intelligent to say. He just happened to come in at exactly the right time to be treated like he does.

>>12813396
Aye? It's entire purpose and the one thing on the order of necessity that it could literally never not be is genital mutilation and a form of sexual oppression. And its not like no one has ever brought this up either. People just intentionally ignore it or go into full denial mode. Maimonides in the Talmud literally says its good because it destroys most of the feeling and sexual pleasure in your dick for example. And religion has historically been a form of sexual control over its subjects.
I suspect you can destroy most of the pleasure in peoples genitals and also preserve their behavior roughly (there are reasons for this I suspect are epistemological). Although I think it depends on the way its done and its perniciousness level.

>>12812296
Theories like this have been around for at least a hundred years. Tale Freuds Moses and Monotheism for example. They were never particularly true and were always interesting. There is simply no evidence about this era of (proto)mankind: practically every narrative applied to it is pure conjecture.

There are plenty of theoretical reasons developed in the last 100 years for why we should be cautious about them. Primary among these is the observation that they project an ascendancy narrative structure which comes from a very particular (and incorrect) version of the history of science (positivism essentially).

What struck me as practically ridiculous in the Peterson interview was his reliance on small contemporary psychological studies to make essential points (one about children playing games and one about the left/right brain). Worse still, he is spectacularly irresponsible in deploying symbols and theological concepts (such as logos and spirit) and seems to have an extremely naive understanding of what these terms have been understood to mean.

>>12813240
Ted is right. That's why conservatives were considered false choice. Many are becoming aware of this hence the term "cuckservative" that got popular lately. Conservative in america is just a liberal with vocal complaints about problems they dont intend to address.

>>12811251
why do these conservative guys always try and claim marxism isn't western? I mean it's literally called dialectics.

I can't think of anything more tied up in western though, apart from femism.

>>12806974
He looks like the By Azura guy from Oblivion.

>>12813897
Right yeah.

What’s remarkable about our generation is how conservative we are. It seems as if something /may/ be going on within academia and a lot of these positivist pillars of thought are bound to crumble within a short time. We have Edmund Burke as our favorite thinker. The Federalist Papers to think about.

Things that Americans used to think about but never do anymore. It’s as if everyone else is living in a daydream. They have forgotten the blood and toil we have built civilization on.

We have recognized these things for what they truly are: slothful indolence. A sin. Things are starting to connect. Here and there, through the infrastructure of society, a looming giant reigns: faith in God. Bringing us together. Something we have forgotten.

It’s just emblematic of my struggle, and your struggle, to still be people. To still be normal people while society is being manipulated. It’s a struggle to stay sane while academia presses onward on an agenda.

It’s the struggle to find truth within bias and sin. It’s faith. And I have found faith in others while here. And I have found faith in every town/city I’ve been in. :3

People are reading it

Ben Shapiro is the best

>>12814680
>getting a zero

You would think that ;3

>>12812523
He skipped two grades fagola.

>>12814735
I disagree with Ben therefore he must be stupid.

>literature thread
>no replies
>Ben Shapiro thread
>200 replies

>>12807671
back to the gas chambers kike

>>12814981
did you think this was different from any other 4chan board? 4chan is a place full of little communities that talk about hobbies and intellectual subjects without knowing anything about them. It's very Kafkaesque.

>>12813240
>in modern society an individual's loyalty must be first to the system
and into the dystopian trash it goes

>>12815385
It once was

At least he doesn't talk slow af like chomsky. Chomsky would benefit from that hawking talking device

why is he being shilled here so hard?
I thought 4chan was full of anti-semites, it seems like a bad idea.

>>12806974
when it's $2 in the second hand store the same thing i do to commie books

>Non-fiction
Sorry, I'm not a troglodyte

>>12812943
Are you, by any chance, mentally challenged ?
Capitalism destroys traditions because they are in the way of its grow. It's a mechanical effect. No such things as intent in it.

Porn and shitposting "accidentally" ruined tour attention span.

>>12811664
Is that a fucking The Prisoner peep?

>>12816650
>Are you, by any chance, mentally challenged ?
One of us is.

>>12808610
that's exactly right. you're smart

>>12807453

>>12807660
and provided almost all doctors and moneylenders for years, allowing non-wealthy people to open businesses and anybody with a profitable idea to become rich, while also keeping people alive.

>>12811676
if we define right as beneficial and wrong as deleterious, then I can name a few wrong things.
objectivity in ethics does not exist IMO. but subjectivity does. no one can be universally amoral.

>>12817136
Why do you believe Jews made up the majority of doctors throughout American history? I don't know how you could possibly know that. I'll give you money lending though, but it's not like they were the only ones who did it or could do it if they never came to America. Either way, money lending isn't what builds nations. It's putting that money to use. The Jew who lent Mr. Walmart money isn't responsible for building Walmart industries.

>>12812567
Get a lobotomy so you won't get Creutzfeldt-Jakob

The Truth about Syria's #GolanHeights and #GenieEnergy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8clMNOmX_kk

>>12813124
You're arguing over different things. Whether an individual supporting free markets while adhering to traditional values is conceivable has nothing to do with whether a free market as a whole may stay within traditional values or wander off into subversion. In the former case, one may well adopt a traditional worldview within the free market, but in the latter, by virtue of the freedom of the market others are free to adopt the opposite worldview, and their worldview may (or will, as the other anon contends) dominate yours.

Yet if you look into this situation more deeply, the freedom of the market itself entails that it reside on a lower level than tradition, incorporating both tradition while its opposite, whereas the essence of tradition requires that it preside over everything else as an overarching system. Tradition exists to curb tendencies towards the base and convenient, and for that it needs to assert itself as universal, but the very idea of a free market takes that universality away from it and puts it against its opposite in a competition to win over people's hearts. Then, removed of the universality and authority of tradition, people on average will fall back on their more basic desires and compulsions in this decision between tradition and its absence, and since tradition exists explicitly to curb these compulsions, they will tend in the mean towards its absence. Of course the essence of tradition as above compulsion partakes in this situation as an object, but the driving engine is the essence of the free market as below tradition and everything else.

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