/lit/ - Literature

>>12798500
Not giving him due credit. That argument was the foulest reeking shitstain in the boxers of philosophy until Kant broke out the intellectual sodium hypochlorite.

>>12798500
>cogito ergo sum
>cerebral activity ceases at corporeal death
Somebody make me feel better please.

>>12798558
You never cease to be.

>>12798558
consciousness is forever

>>12798558
Dude, your ego is only the ghost that inhabits you brain. You have an eternal soul that is your real self

>>12798563
>>12798569
>>12798598
These all seem to be expressing the same notion. Is there further reading to console a frog?

>>12798500
Descartes was a moron

>>12798979

Narcissus & Goldmund, Hesse

It may not resolve all of your concerns, but you will absolutely feel better.

>>12798979
http://www.themantle.com/philosophy/philosophize-learn-die

>>12798500
>Dude, we don't know if what we are experiencing is real and what if for sake of argument God is a dick who is tricking us into experiencing these things that aren't real so the only thing I know is that I know I am experiencing these things which may be delusions so I'm gonna go ahead and make some propositions anyway lol

>>12798500
I like Descartes' effort but Hume BTFOd him in the first 10 pages of his enquiry.

>>12798500
He was quite likely a genius in most if not all senses the word so no.

>>12798500
Well his flawed philosophy did help to spark the enlightenment so

>>12798558
You are the universe itself
As is everything and everyone
There is no separation

>>12799846
Hello me

>>12799853
We suffer from a hallucination, from a false and distorted sensation of our own existence as living organisms. Most of us have the sensation that “I myself” is a separate center of feeling and action, living inside and bounded by the physical body — a center which “confronts” an “external” world of people and things, making contact through the senses with a universe both alien and strange. Everyday figures of speech reflect this illusion. “I came into this world.” “You must face reality.” “The conquest of nature.”

This feeling of being lonely and very temporary visitors in the universe is in flat contradiction to everything known about man (and all other living organisms) in the sciences. We do not “come into” this world; we come out of it, as leaves from a tree. As the ocean “waves,” the universe “peoples.” Every individual is an expression of the whole realm of nature, a unique action of the total universe. This fact is rarely, if ever, experienced by most individuals. Even those who know it to be true in theory do not sense or feel it, but continue to be aware of themselves as isolated “egos” inside bags of skin.

>>12799881
Shit, when did I write all of this

>>12798558
If your cerebral activity is you then death doesn't matter because [paraphrasing] when death has come then you are no longer here but when death is not here you continue to be. If you believe in the Big Bang theory then consider the following: this existence came from nothingness, you do not remember the time it took from the beginning of this existence to your birth, yet you did not come into being until long after the beginning of the universe, yet you have no recollection meaning that prior to your existence you had no awareness of space and time, for you the many years that are between your birth and the beginning were instantaneous. When you die as we all do, why do you assume that you will experience nothingness? To experience nothingness you would have to be aware of it yet your fear is based on your cognition being your cerebral activity, which would not be here after death, now taking into consideration the Big Bang theory, why do you believe your death is final? If something came from nothingness, of which you have no recollection of, then what is stopping it from happening again after your death? Once you die, according to you, you cease to process space and time, but now take into consideration the possibility of you existing some time in the future (from nothingness into being), it would be instantaneous for you as it was for you being born into this life. Your fear of the unknown will linger until you have seen what you fear from every angle, see death from every possible angle, think about it as often as you can until you have exhausted its emotional value and then all you'll be left with is a fear of dying painfully but not a fear of death itself. Philosophy is the antidote to most things in the sense that it is the love of knowledge, of wisdom, couple that with exposure therapy and you are set for life against almost any fear.

>>12799006
say that in front of my face coward

>>12800251
Very high quality post. Death is the highest of spooks. You're eternal, whether you like it or not.

>>12798558
I dared not speak of this at first. You'd never have let me out of containment. The truth is, I was aware of all of it. I suppose there was a sweet oblivion, like deep sleep, at first; but in retrospect, I think it was no more than a day. Slowly, but unmistakably, I reoccupied my corpse with dreamlike consciousness: numb for the first merciful hours, blind, deaf, and immobile, but then I seemed to reconnect to every nerve, and became aware of every sensation - moreso than I ever was in life. I perceived myself trapped within an immovable object, and the intensity of the struggle amplified: subtle, then acute, then racking. I cannot describe it completely - but imagine holding your breath, beyond urge, beyond pain, beyond desperation - head throbbing and eyes bulging - a dream of suffocation without end.

"My skin blistered and split in the sunlight; biting insects descended rapidly. I felt eggs hatch, larvae crawl, gases build and burst within me, individual cells rupturing, interstitial fluids souring and blackening. Somehow my capacity to experience and store these sensations grew - even as I was keenly aware of my cerebrum being scattered and devoured, my perception expanded, into the gizzards of birds and the depths of fire ant dens. I was aware of every fingernail and strand of hair that pulled away in the wind - and my sensation clung to them as they settled in the ocean and dissolved in the maws of a trillion diatoms.

"I don't understand it. The more bits of me there were, the larger my capacity for the perception of pain. As I decayed into pieces smaller than living nerves could possibly distinguish, the character of the discomfort changed - from burning and aching and breaking I might relate to you in human terms - to something worse that I cannot fully articulate: a terrible, maddening stretching of every part of myself from every other part. Humans often numb to chronic pains in life, do they not? Yet every year, every month, every second that passed - I swear it only intensified over time.

>>12798979
Fritjof Schuon

>>12800311
>>12800251
This is terrifying and did not at all make me feel better.

Thank you anons.

>>12798558
ur ego just dissipates into the bigger ego

>>12800333
Become religious.
Unironically a way to free your "real self" in the form of worshipping THE universal self.
"Second death" is the destruction of your ego, your human consciousness, but you can transfigure it, "save" it for eternity so to speak if you link it to the "real you" which is God, all along.
God in the highest.. And God within you.

>>12800344
>non-dualistic and pantheistic assertions alongside dualistic and theist ones, and a Catholic image
don't fall for it OP, anon's trying to rebrand Christianity before the inevitable pantheist revolution comes to society, if you want to become religious look to the actual pantheist religions like hinduism or buddhism, which feature "ego death" and being the Godhead and all that

>>12800359
>He believes Hinduism is pantheistic.
Read some René Guenon.

Also my point is not an original thought nor a rebrand... This is what Maester Eckart described... Or the alchemists. Everyone having a "divine essence" while God being absolute and transcendant is not contradictory...
It's even fairly logical since we don't have our "reason d'être" from ourselves.

Still I understand that if you say this openly, you're bound to confuse people.

>>12798979
LOL nigga death is bad you can't philosophize yourself out of that

>>12800344
This

>>12799846
stfu pseud

>>12799911
Imagine 2 millions years into the future, an alien race reviewing the history of the Solar System, they'll read "the humans landed on the moon...the humans explored Mars..." etc. Boom, we're all one. If you take the resolution or frame of reference to the extreme, observing from the "outside" of our universe, we'll be seen as the universe that did such and such and experienced such and such.

>>12800483
Hitler was the jews all along

>God is real. End of discussion. Now move the fuck on and do something productive with your life.

>>12800333
What is it that "terrifies" you?

>>12800375
How is death bad? It's an unknown, all we know is that it is the antithesis of the state of living, beyond that only the dead know what death is, considering nothing is permanent then death is just part of the cycle of this existence. How is it "bad"?

Yikes. Why are you guys so uncharitable? He was trying to make an application of the ex nihilo nihil fit principle, saying that the x-ness of any idea in one's head must come from something with at least as much x-ness in the idea.

You cannot reduce the philosophy of Descartes to the Trademark Argument. It's just one part of his philosophy.

>>12798500
Descartes was a genius and my idol. Nothing he said or did can be disproven

>>12799504
Doubting is a species of thinking. By doubting the statement 'I think, therefore I am', you prove it correct. It is the one indubitable self evident first principle from which knowledge may be built-- the vital reality of one's own existence.

>>12800734
this. eat it up faggots.
ITT: low tier pleb posting

>>12801067
Pipe down, pleb.

>>12800733
It can't be proven either, therefore it's a bunch of nonsense.

>>12802704
did you just imply that anything unproven is nonsense? I guess you were kidding

Anyway, Descartes is completely relevant today, when it comes to (a) grounding phenomenology while remaining rational, and (b) btfo'ing vegans and other retards, because humanism is not dead.

>>12798569
Until capital.

This board is so fucking stupid

>>12802819
I'd like to see Descartes and Land in a room together.

>>12799881
This is the greatest faggotry in the whole history of human philosophy that's littered with faggotry. What's more, it's faggotry even from the purely physicalist point of view which is already among the most depraved worldviews out there. To go even lower than that is fairly outstanding.

>>12798500
i love him

>>12798558

>>12800728
The existence of god is literally the groundwork on which his entire epistemology is based.

Whenever anyone has offended me, I try to raise my soul so high that the offense cannot reach it.
Descartes thank you for teaching me how to be a better person

>>12802783
>t. hasn't taken a science course after 4th grade

>>12803939
If you'd read Descartes, you'd know that the Trademark Argument is not in fact his only argument for the existence of God. He repeatedly makes use of a modified Anselmian Ontological Argument. These sorts of arguments survive to this day, developed further by brilliant men like Alvin Plantinga. For OP to jump to calling him a retard for using some dated argumentation would make pretty much 90% of philosophers 'retards'. Descartes is one of the most influential and significant philosophers of all time, and a personal hero of mine. I'd like to see him treated more fairly than he has been in recent years.

>>12798500

His trademark argument is unironically brilliant, and eminently defensible.

>>12798558
You don't know what happens after death. Like a baby that has no idea what is to come when it's still in the womb.

>>12804069
I am more than aware that he also utilises the ontological argument, I am in fact literate and have read the meditiations, objections and replies, the world, and the discourse with some selected early scientific essays (for example the ones on optics and metereology).

However due to how often I hear that Descartes was some closet atheist I instinctively jump to saying that, no, he was very much a Christian to the point where he rested his entire epistemology on it. For the typical pseud on this board his trademark proof is the only one they know and that is why I subconciously equate the two when I'm on here.

To respond to you being pissy at OP: OP is either retarded or making a joke, don't get your panties in a twist. To many modern people the things he says do sound retarded mainly due to them being brought up on Dawkins telling them that every religious person is a feels over reals idiot.

>>12802783
I can't remember where humanism being a relevant ideology comes into btfo'ing vegans. Must've missed that day of school.

>>12805549
how come if you show a baby a triangle it knows what it is, even though its not a perfect triangle? you might have made it uneven or something, but its still triangle

>>12805694
Kant's transcendental idealism is correct, that's all you need to know.

>>12798558
You will exist forever and at some point one of us is going to invent artificial general intelligence and bring about the resurrection of the dead. This might even happen in your lifetime.

>>12806057
sounds like what Jesus had talked about...

>>12806127
There is nothing stopping some Christian's from trying to create an AGI to bring about their beliefs and in the same manner many Christians have absorbed the theory of evolution they might do the same with AI.

>>12800734
is this bait? fuck it: doubt as thought means that doubting cogito proves the cogito and not the sum, you absolute fuckwit

>>12798500
Where's the error? A stream never goes higher than its source, and we can go pretty darn high.

>>12806811
Then you don't cogit.

>>12802819
Mammon isn't as unconscious as his worshipers.

>God is real because I saw Him
Your answer?

>>12799881
The "bags of skin" kinda gives you up, anon. You just read an Alan watts book and think you figured it all out?

>>12798500
COGITO ERGO PROXY
the holy ghost moves through us as knowledge and words

>>12798979
Look into Eckhart Tolle.

>>12806811
How can something have the property of thinking and not exist? Isn't saying that something doesn't exist while also possessing qualities equate to saying something both is and is not? Isn't that a basic contradiction? A =/= A? Even if I'm wrong, I don't think it's fair to call me a fuckwit. You need to calm down.

the cogito comes from outside and is sentient.