/lit/ - Literature

>>12722869
They're too busy with their tulips

>>12722869
Or any other artist worth anything besides Bosch. I'm sure they have some filmmaker(s) but can't remember their names right now.

>>12723051
Van Gogh?

>>12722869
Not enough suffering to make anything worthwhile. Their film scene is even worse

>>12723125
Did the English suffer?

>>12722869
Entire scene is controlled by jews. During hs I had to read Dutch literature which was just one degenerate book after the next.

Only dutch book I liked was Montyn, which is more autobiography styled story of a young kid joining SS for adventure, fighting in ostfront, surviving war, rejoining Dutch military and fighting colonial war in Indonesia, then in Korea against the commies, and then mentally breaking down, having sex parties with dutch elite, raping a young recruit, then lives out his last years as a painter in france.

8/10

Btw im a dutch writer myself but i write only in english and will publish with a foreign publishing house.

>>12723387
fuck off w yr anti semitic bs fkn pathetic wanna be edgy psychopath

>>12723338
With their looks

>>12723387
Fuck off with your self pitying anti semitism.

Erasmus

>>12723491
Didn't write in Dutch.

Bernlef's Out of Mind (Hersenschimmen) is one of the best books I've read

READ FLEMISH LIT YOU MONGS

>>12723125
>Their film scene is even worse
Could you elaborate that? I'm german and our film scene is already remarkably terrible due to our commercial movie and tv industry being pretty small, the federal and state movie foundations being the only ones with actual money but a taste from hell and the extreme dominance of our public broadcasters which cling to this awful stylistic realism that kills nearly everything somewhat experimental.

>>12723735
At least Germany has had some notable directors such as Lang and the expressionists, and later Fassbinder, Wenders, Herzog. The Dutch have... some documentary about glass and the guy who did RoboCop?

>

Read some Tim Krabbe faggot, the Golden Egg is a great book

>>12723051
rembrandt

>>12722869
because al the good /lit/ is flemish

>>12722869
Nescio

>>12723844
I don't fucking understand Nescio.

I do like Beyond Sleep by Hermans, though.

>>12722869
Hans Dorrestijn, plebs.

>>12723732
Have read some of Herman Brusselmans's stuff once. Every book was basically the stranger with less dead arabs.

>>12723051
all good dutch-language film is basically flemish. only exception was "Turks fruit", which was a good film but also renowned for being the only good dutch film.

>>12722869
W.F. Hermans and Cees Nooteboom are pretty good ngl

>>12723694
based

>>12723051
Van Gogh, Rembrandt, Vermeer, de Kooning, Hals, Steen

>>12723407
>>12723447

Triggered kikes and or sœyboys.
The snobbish amsterdam literature scene decides the course of dutch literature, incl awards, publishing, potential subsidies etc. Most "renowned" dutch writers are jews or married to jewesses and this little clan of snobfaggots councils the literature scene and influence the publishing houses as well as major dutch newspapers. There are a few token minorities thrown in, but it aint much.

Serious dutch writers dont bother writing in Dutch, which is kinda sad. Also only 16 mil population which is not large enough for ambitous litppl save amsterdam snobs wishing to exchange farts in their 1 million euro canal closets while they snort coke from semi-underage boys.

>>12723958
You're mentally ill

>Btw im a dutch writer myself but i write only in english and will publish with a foreign publishing house.
>complains about jewry

>>12723928
>Van Gogh
also produced some of the best Dutch literature

>>12723602
Literally not what OP said, you outrageous faggot.

Dutch will be a dead language in 100 years.

Any of you reading Otmars zonen? I'm about 100 pages in, pretty good so far. Reminds me of Roth a bit.

For whatever reason they just paint

>>12722869
there is.

>>12723694
I mean, it's a well worked out concise novella with a great stylistic gimmick that fits the thematics. But I wouldn't count it as one of the best Dutch books. It's solid.

I think Hermans' Nooit Meer Slapen, Bordewijks' Karakter and Amsterdam Stories by Nescio are all a lot better. Reve is great too.

>>12722869
There is, you just haven't read any. I read Dutch lit all the time and there is just an overwhelming amount of good shit. There just hasn't been any international attention to it over the past 300 years, because 18 century Dutch lit was a barren waste land and the only good literature from that time period was literature making fun of politics or other literature, and because Dutch culture doesn't recognize itself as something outsiders should have to know about; as such, even during colonial times, it was always the Dutch learning other people's languages.

I wouldn't want to put Dutch literature on the same pedestal as something like American literature or German literature, but I wouldn't say there is a huge gap between them. Even in the middle ages Dutch literature was on par with that of it's contemporaries. Initially because of Flemish wealth, but as the Dutch language spread north, a lot of good stuff started coming from there too. The Dutch version of the story of Reynard the fox is even still considered one of the most prolific works of western European medieval literature.

Then the 16th century came and everybody just wrote poems and songs that nobody remembers. It was generally a shit time for Dutch lit.

But the 17th century had a lot of prolific works and Vondels Poems(,though not quite his plays) are considered to be on the same level as those of Shakespeare and are still read today by the few people who still read poems, together with the works of Bredero and father Cats. And Hooft's works are nothing to sniff at either.

I believe Multatuli's works and the poems of Piet paaltjens are the only works of the romantic period that are considered world literature, but that's not little: I'd say Max Havelaar is the only book I know that's on par with my favourite book Moby Dick. Don't know how the translation holds up though. I don't have much trust in it.

Iskander, by Louis Couperus is like one of the best books I've ever read and I'm sure Couperus has written more books, probably near the end of his career, that are on a similar level of brilliance. Slauerhoff has written two of my favourite novels, which is impressive since he's only written two novels, but they're both great works of Literature: 'The forbidden kingdom' and 'The life on earth' .

I'm sure there's more stuff from the nineteenth century and first half of the 20th century that's great, but I haven't gotten to it yet. Still haven't gotten back to reading Camera Obscura, which I've heard is a masterpiece, and the first 3 chapters of it I read were great. I don't know much about stuff from after the war, But I still sometimes lay a wake at night thinking about the ending of the darkroom of Damocles, And I'm currently rereading the discovery of heaven, which is fantastic, though a little sluggish in it's mid section. And supposedly there is tons of moderns stuff that's great, that I haven't found yet

It's still not French lit though, so why do I even bother?

>>12723995
Dutch are merchants first and foremost. I choose a market of 6 billion over 16 million any day.

>>12724235
it wont though we are way more autistic about keeping english out of our language then you think. even the flemings are this way

>>12724577
>the discovery of heaven, which is fantastic
stop pretending this is true

>>12724723
The immigrants are not autistic though, they don't care about the Dutch language. English is the language of hip-hop and netflix series.

>>12724221
I am OP.

>>12724825
still literally not what you said

>>12723815
Columbine ftw.

I have an old german copy of pic related, is Simon Vestdijk any good?

>>12724859
Yes

>>12724259
>dvw geen jet steinz vd

>>12724809
unlike the usa it's by law to learn the language to become a citizen

>>12724809
dutch hip hop is even big with belgian francophones

>>12724723
Every millennial Dutch person perhaps basically speaks an English-Dutch creole by now anon...

>>12725328
erratum: take out the "perhaps"

I have this book that's pretty solid Flemish lit.

>>12724291
>recipes
lol, dutch plebs

>>12725515
>1000 books
>they're all about waffles

>>12724577
Great post anon

It always felt like the first half of the discovery of heaven was the best part. Everything after the Death By Comet is a let down. The latter half is just lame symbolism to build some sort if mission impossible ending with at its center a flat character.

>>12723928
Rapper steen?

>>12724577
incredibly based

>>12724859
Very comfy writer so yes

>>12725520
waffles are Belgian you ignorant fucking kankerlijer

>>12725607
I always liked the last part best, but as I said, I'm currently rereading it, so I don't know yet. The middle section is holding up better than it did the first time(which I sort of expected), but is still not as great as the first quarter. A lot of people are really disappointed by the ending though, and though I somewhat understand, I still think the anti-climax was sort of the point of it all. That is to say: the entire plan that the angels devised shows us that what heaven is up to is not important to us humans and it's unhealthy to concern ourselves too much about it.

>>12724577
extremely based
>>12724808
Stop being a contrarian. Mulisch is one of the best Dutch writers of the 20th century and this is his magnum opus.

>>12726635
haha

Holland, that scarce deserves the name of land,
As but th’ off-scouring of the British sand;
And so much earth as was contributed
By English pilots when they heav’d the lead;
Or what by th’ ocean’s slow alluvion fell,
Of shipwrack’d cockle and the mussel-shell;
This indigested vomit of the sea
Fell to the Dutch by just propriety.

Glad then, as miners that have found the ore,
They with mad labour fish’d the land to shore;
And div’d as desperately for each piece
Of earth, as if’t had been of ambergris;
Collecting anxiously small loads of clay,
Less than what building swallows bear away;
Or than those pills which sordid beetles roll,
Transfusing into them their dunghill soul.

How did they rivet, with gigantic piles,
Thorough the centre their new-catched miles;
And to the stake a struggling country bound,
Where barking waves still bait the forced ground;
Building their watry Babel far more high
To reach the sea, than those to scale the sky.

Yet still his claim the injur’d ocean laid,
And oft at leap-frog ore their steeples play’d:
As if on purpose it on land had come
To show them what’s their mare liberum.
A daily deluge over them does boil;
The earth and water play at level-coil;
The fish oft-times the burgher dispossest,
And sat not as a meat but as a guest;
And oft the Tritons and the sea-nymphs saw
Whole sholes of Dutch serv’d up for cabillau;
Or as they over the new level rang’d
For pickled herring, pickled heeren chang’d.
Nature, it seem’d, asham’d of her mistake,
Would throw their land away at duck and drake.

>>12726635
>Stop being a contrarian. Mulisch is one of the best Dutch writers of the 20th century and this is his magnum opus.
The book felt extremely artificial to me. I just don't get the hype - Het Stenen Bruidsbed was a much more impressive story, and that was pretty much a novella. Is The Discovery of Heaven praised so much only for its scale?

>>12726635
Mulisch is easily the worst of the Big Three. He's like the Spielberg of Dutch Literature: technically competent, productive, liked by the public but ultimately he reached no great depths and produced no masterwork.

>>12726424

>>12726670
Yeah, it's Harry the posterboy of Dutch literature producing a Magnum Opus with Big Themes. Its popularity rests more on its marketability than its literary qualities.

>>12726683
Wolkers should take his place in the Big Three desu

>>12726707
Agreed. Wolkers is often put away as le sixties sex man but he's way more. He's colourful, funny and very honest: the sexual aspects of his works never feel like they're meant to shock. It's just Wolkers being who he is.

What of his works are worth reading besides Terug Naar Oestgeest and Turks Fruit?

>>12722869
They are the Japanese bugmen of Yurop.

>>12726802
I really enjoyed his early work, his short stories as well as his novels. Kort Amerikaans is like a WWII adventure, Een roos van vlees is already much more developed emotionally.

>Wolkers is often put away as le sixties sex man but he's way more
His first ~7 books barely even have sexual content. They're mostly about World War II and >muh brother

What is lit's opinion on Arnon Grunberg?

Testing

>>12726943
>Grunberg was born as Arnon Yasha Yves Grünberg on 22 February 1971 in Amsterdam, the Netherlands. He grew up in a family of Jewish immigrants, originally from Germany.[1][2] His mother was a survivor of concentration camp Auschwitz.[3][4]

>>12726960
The only thing worse than Grunberg is a /pol/ autist

Nooit Meer Slapen is better than De Donkere Kamer. And I'll fight anyone who denies it.

>>12727106
Nooit Meer Slapen is the Great Dutch novel as far as I am concerned

>>12723909
What are some good flemish films?