/lit/ - Literature

>The lack of an effective disciplinary system has not, to say the least, been compensated for by an increase in student self-motivation. Students are aware that if they don't attend for weeks on end, and/or if they don't produce any work, they will not face any meaningful sanction. They typically respond to this freedom not by pursuing projects but by falling into hedonic (or anhedonic) lassitude: the soft narcosis, the comfort food oblivion of Playstation, all-night TV and marijuana.

Based Mark

>>12722391
>people are being dumb beast of burden slaves like the boomers before them
>people actual want to enjoy life rather than follow fascist social and corporate obligations
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEE
lol gonna take a few extra hits of the bong tonight while I laugh reminiscing about this

>>12722391
>people aren't being dumb beast of burden slaves like the boomers before them
>people actual want to enjoy life rather than follow fascist social and corporate obligations
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEE
lol gonna take a few extra hits of the bong tonight while I laugh reminiscing about this

>>12722422
feel the bern bro

>>12722425
Nah, this is Yang Gang territory, nigga.

>>12722391
And yet the institutions still issue degrees. How do you expect people who have been under the heel of an "effective disciplinary system" for their entire lives to behave when it's stripped away?

>>12722263
>not linking the article
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/exiting-vampire-castle/

It is rather intriguing that all the great progressive and reformist projects eventually amounted to nothing but gray dust, and that the smartest champions of those projects eventually lived to see that, and recognize it.

>literally who
>look up
>dead (barely)
>have no idea who this is
>into the trash it goes

>>12722615
If the discipline had been effective, better than they acted to deserve it.

>trap music isn't innovative

damn

>>12722677
And your opinion matters because?

>>12722841
Well, if he were more famous, I would more guilty about knowing who he is. It would be one thing if OP were clearer, but not everyone is at fault if they are totally ignorant of what OP is referring to. If I wanted, I could spend my entire day making obscure references to various objects, that would known perhaps to no person in the world, and very unlikely in a community as pitifully small as this one.

>>12722836
Rap is a derivation of the punk music. It’s about the attitude and persona, not the music.
I’m not sure what Mark Stewart’s opinion on music was, but I remember it being somewhat alt-based. Personally, I think the last “folk” voice died around the time independent labels either became massive themselves, or faded into obscurity at the hands of the internet. Then it became what is sold to you (Attitude) versus self-published (Bandcamp; Not very good).

>>12722878
Mark Fisher*
Slip-up.

>>12722391
>the last binge ever

>>12722868
At this point Mark Fisher is a /lit/ meme of sorts.

>>12722836
it literally isn't, it's simply a variation on a theme that has been around since the 90's.

>>12723988
Well, if you say so.

>>12722422
You do you man. I hope when you finally come to understand how much of your life you have wasted that it is an easier blow knowing you probably were never going to amount to anything but a burden for those around you to carry anyways.

>>12722657
God, he's such a faggot. He has a good point about the left eating itself alive with this unnecessary church of no salvation but then he goes and reaffirms the need to be anti-racist/sexist/fascist and all the other buzzwords that led people into this religious intersectional garbage in the first place. He's saying that people need to be all of these things without an effort to punish those who transgress against the morality he wishes to proliferate. I'm not sure if he genuinely has no idea how any of this works, but morality is always enforced top down, and always has taken a religious structure, it's the principle objects of that religious moralism that can be changed, not the nature in which morality itself functions.

>>12722868
You'd have to be a right wing simpleton to not know who Mark Fisher is at this day and age.

>>12724042
I think you're overstating this man's significance while making or heavily implying a personal remark.

>>12724035
that's why he killed himself probably

>>12722263
>I wish I was at home listening to jungle
>the music is too retro
>I bet everyone's future's here is lost
>my mental health hurts
>>12722422
people wouldn't spend time on TV or weed if they actually wanted to enjoy life. those are simply signs of the despair and confusion that set in when all capacity for enjoyment has already died off

>>12724042
in this day and age Fisher's relevance is still limited to being a footnote to Land/general Acc discussion

>>12724076
So in other words spooky gay space communism while also actually just being an increase in international capital's ability to alienate and isolated people from their ability to find social actualization through anything but purchased dopamine and identity.

>>12722391
Mark Fisher was a crypto-traditionalist

>>12724011
fucking rekt

>>12724035
I noticed that too. He also spends too much of the essay shitting on the right at every opportunity he gets and doesn't say enough on why class and capitalism are bad and how woke capital only ensnares you into their clutches. In some ways, he comes off as that one parent who tries to appear cool to his kids and his friends, saying "Yeah, fuck the establishment, amiright?"

>>12722422
dude Mark Fisher is a Commie, he's just responding to the idea that people will branch out into greatness when left to their own devices. All night TV and marijuana would apply to boomers just as much.

>>12724035
>morality is always enforced top down, and always has taken a religious structure, it's the principle objects of that religious moralism that can be changed, not the nature in which morality itself functions
But isn't that what he's insisting we should change, the reliance on an ecclesiastical/top-down morality? Isn't that what exiting the vampire castle is all about? Why the assumption that its impossible to build a moral framework outside its walls from the ground up, ie. morality as an emergent property of society that doesn't rely on dogmatic overcoding to maintain it?

>>12725086
The problem is that the only way he seems to be able to conceptualize the Right is as neoliberal conservatism.

>>12722263
I quite agree with the text's idea. We wouldn't be witnessing the rise of the "right" (immigrant situations aside) if the left wasn't so divorced from the common people's reality.

>>12725248
That would be populism which is very bad!

>>12725265
This is so pathetic... Reminds me a lot of the "Holiday in Cambodia" lyrics too, I just recently stopped to really pay attention to it, and it seems the situation hasn't changed a lot.

>>12722582

>>12722391
Citation please?

>>12724035
>morality is always enforced top down
The entire point of the Left is that this isn't true - people gain rights, better treatment, and respect by fighting for them from the bottom up, in ways ranging from mundane strikes and voting campaigns, to full-on revolution. Material social progress comes from below, always.

>>12725105
The point is we've tried to change it before and it's never worked. That's the whole point of the Paris Commune, and other such experiments. It always fucks up in the end. Morality's transmission through human society seems to take one shape, and only one shape.

>>12726423
you can't fight 'from the bottom'. If they were truly on the bottom they'd just be crushed when they tried to fight

>>12726562
You don't understand, the 'bottom' is the undefined underclass, the proletariat mass that vastly outnumbers the other classes. Revoutions only work with sheer numbers on its side, this is why class consciousness is so important

>>12722263
it's funny cause he looks like a dracula

>>12722422
boomers invented all that retard

>>12722582

>>12726423
that's not true either, most rights are attained by a small highly organized minority, usually people who they themselves come from, belong to or are financed by the upper classes.

>>12722263
He's cute

>>12722582
based

>>12722582
yang, savior of neets and wagecucks

>>12726696
Only if you look at emancipatory movements which have nothing to do with class, women and the gay community for example. Do you think the miner’s strikes, or even more recently, the deliveroo strikes were executed or funded by the upper classes?

>>12729354
Noooo don't talk about strikes, it undermines our carefully crafted /pol/ propaganda that all leftism is just rich gay men andrich women fighting for more women CEOs

>>12729364
Arguably there is a subset of (soft) left thought that does operate through those channels, but it’s important to stress the distinction between neoliberal appropriation of emancipatory causes and actual leftist praxis, which actually tries to punch up rather than punching people at the behest of their financial backer.

Yang 2020

>>12729381
Actually existing oostsocialist leftism isn't pulling off any general strikes soon.

>>12729416
>oostsocialist
What did he mean by this?

>>12722263
stfu white male

>>12722878
>Rap is a derivation of the punk music
dumbest thing I've read in 2019

>>12726423
>Material social progress comes from below, always.
read Pareto

>>12729364
>>12729354
miner’s strikes and deliveroo strikes are fine and everything, but the left is not precisely winning elections by promoting that

>>12729382

>>12729416
>>12729381
actual workers are icky and may not like globalism

>>12722263
>My preferred brand of Communism has not yet been tried.
>Communism when :'(
t. le vampire castle man

>>12726423
That's not what actually happened, wealthy patrons organized those "bottom-up struggles" for their own reasons.

Does the castle have an exit to the left?
Currently watching

https://youtu.be/d3ejHcRtQQ4

where they discuss it around minute 35

>>12731189
DC Miller seems pretty based and redpilled, just realized it was the wacky guy who got yelled at by antifa a few years ago in the UK, one of my first redpills about the true nature of leftism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2I9B4UZEO4

>>12724035
This is why you read Camatte.
>The struggle of people against capital has only ever been seen through the narrow focus of class. The only way to be regarded as a real adversary of capital has been to actively identify oneself with the proletariat; all else is romantic, petit bourgeois etc . . . But the very act of reasoning in classist terms means that any particular class is confined within the limits of class analysis. This is particularly important when one considers that the working class has as its mission the elimination of all classes. It also avoids the question of how that class will bring about its own autodestruction, since this classist analysis prevents any lessons being drawn from the tragic intellectual fate of those people who set themselves in opposition to capital without even recognising or identifying their enemy (as with Bergson, for example). Today, when the whole classist approach has been deprived of any solid base, it may be worthwhile to reconsider movements of the right and their thinking. The right is a movement of opposition to capital that seeks to restore a moment which is firmly rooted in the past. Hence in order to eliminate class conflict, the excesses of capitalist individualism, speculation and so on, the Action Francaise and the Nouvelle Action Francaise (NAF) envisage a community which can only be guaranteed, according to them, by a system of monarchy. (See particularly the chapter on capitalism in Les Dossiers de l'Action Francaise).

>>12731281
>It seems that every current or group which opposes capital is nonetheless obliged to focus always on the human as the basis of everything. It takes diverse forms, but it has a profoundly consistent basis and is surprisingly uniform wherever human populations are found. Thus by seeking to restore (and install) the volksgemeinschaft, even the Nazis represent an attempt to create such a community (cf. also their ideology of the Urmensh, the "original man"). We believe that the phenomenon of Nazism is widely misunderstood: it is seen by many people only as a demonic expression of totalitarianism. But the Nazis in Germany had reintroduced an old theme originally theorized by German sociologists like Tonnies and Max Weber. And so in response, we find the Frankfurt school, and most notably Adorno, dealing in empty and sterile concepts of "democracy", due to their incapacity to understand the phenomenon of Nazism. They have been unable to grasp Marx's great insight, which was that he posed the necessity of reforming the community, and that he recognised that this reformation must involve the whole of humanity. The problems are there for everybody; they are serious, and they urgently require solutions. People try to work them out from diverse political angles. However, it is not these problems which determine what is revolutionary or counter-revolutionary, but the solutions put forward - i.e. are they effective or not? And here the racketeer's mentality descends upon us once again: each gang of the left or the right carves out its own intellectual territory; anyone straying into one or the other of these territories is automatically branded as a member of the relevant controlling gang. Thus we have reification: the object is determinant, the subject passive.

>>12731225
I don't know much about Miller except from one previous podcast with Murphy,
but I'm really hopeful that there can grow another sort of left out of the mindset of Murphy. Although granted, he lost his academic position for speaking out against madness and not many will be willing to do that

>>12731281
>>12731289
sounds interesting, always found weird how can communism keep talking about "workers" and "proletariat" the day after the revolution, if "proletariat" is something purely structural and there's no essence to it as soon as you break out of the structure you are not a proletarian at all anymore, and you either have to start thinking about a real theory of what you are at that point, or just do what leftists have always done, disregard theory for propaganda, and keep addressing people as proletarians even when they are in a structurally different position

>>12729381
>but it’s important to stress the distinction between neoliberal appropriation of emancipatory causes and actual leftist praxis, which actually tries to punch up rather than punching people at the behest of their financial backer.
Maybe for a brief window of time in backwards countries. The Party in those countries tended towards oriental despotism in the long run. In Western countries the "emancipatory" left has largely done the will of their financial backers, sometimes without knowing it.

>>12731342
Yes, this was perhaps the major problem for the Soviet project: while defined as a society of workers those same workers were left without an identifying project, or were given a project which would forever remain incomplete. Or in other words, they turned the proletariat into a spiritual category but denied the theological and moral component in favour of pure functioning.
In many ways it was a complete inversion of liberalism since it had to create an internal opposition for the workers, and build a state of opposition which solidified itself as a bureaucracy rather than operating from the shadows. In this sense, the deep state (or intelligence agencies) are the only real traditional form of state that liberal society keeps intact, while in communism it crystallised as the law. This is one of the main reasons for a 'spiritual' opposition to communism (and fascism as well).
Also interesting that it is in the West where work ethic has completely taken over, even though its identity is centred upon the leisured classes of the bourgeoisie, or the citizen. The lack of any apparent controlling gang allows it to function at a much deeper level, and the worker is given an even more revolutionary role when freed of ideological trappings. It is this element which allows the individual to work as if he were a bourgeoisie, when on the verge of homelessness he sees his tiny rental property as controlling a significant industry in trying times.

>>12730796
Two things -
A) the bourgeois election system bascially exists to give an illusion of democracy, while preventing anything from actually being decided democratically (particularly in the US, with its "superdelegates" and "electoral college")
B) hard-left candidates actually HAVE been winning elections on a labor-power platform (AOC being the current bogeyman of right-wing media, but Lee Carter and his ilk actually much more dangerous), while pro-corporate "woke" neolibs have been failing.

>>12729382

>>12731729
i'd argue that people like AOC and Lee Carter don't represent the workers but the managerial class that likes to play social engineering games with the actual workers, which may be somewhat beneficial with the workers but it never represents their actual direct thoughts and projects

which means that if the workers interests and the globalists project of the managerial class ever comes into conflict, globalism will come first

Bump

>>12732848
yeah AOC etc. are all just twitterfags

>>12722263
I have just heard about him for the first time, thanks to this thread here. His views are too far left for me, but I still like him, and sympathize with his ways of thinking, though I am right wing.

>>12722263
you did make me uncomfortable. i would appreciate it if you could back off. i'm not interested sorry.