/lit/ - Literature

>>12714354
For me it'll be porn and masturbation. I don't believe in God either, but I figure Lent is as good a season as any other to get over my porn consumption habits.

I found that I use it more as an excuse for lack of intimacy than anything else. I'm a lonely man, and my lovers are few and far between, but I'm looking to change that. I've been meeting more and more people, and have begun to focus more on my reading and writing. Once I finish my current short story I'll post it in a /crit/ thread.

I'm full of hope right now, since the Spring is round the corner. I know that all of you anons can give up something malignant and renew yourselves with the Spring. We're all gonna make it, friends. Believe it. :-)

>>12714354
christianity.

>>12714444
>Giving up two sins for Lent

my life

I don't really have big vices

>tfw sick so not fasting
Shouldn't this thread be on his or b or something though? If it were orthodox Lent we could talk about John of the Ladder or something.

>>12714562
>his
Low IQ
>b
Wretched

>>12714608
I'm not sure how that makes this thread literature.

I'm doing nofap too.

>>12714354
I'm gonna try and not have sex with my gf the whole time...blowjobs only :(

>>12714715
Cringe and slavepilled

>>12714756
Yeah she is my slave you got that right amigo ;)

>>12714769
You are a slave to your senses, salivating as a dog does to a bell it has been conditioned to follow, helpless but to obey. You'll never know freedom.

>>12714777
Lol what's the problem with us having a healthy sex life? Really don't see the problem you sound bitter lol sour grapes

>>12714444
You are not supposed to give up what is already a sin anon. But your efforts are valiant and I am pretty much doing the same, so I am in no position to criticize.

I'm probably going to try to go to daily Mass and Eucharistic Adoration somewhat regularly. Additionally, I'll read the Gospel of Matthew.

>>12714444
Based positive anon

>>12714444
>I'm full of hope right now, since the Spring is round the corner. I know that all of you anons can give up something malignant and renew yourselves with the Spring. We're all gonna make it, friends. Believe it. :-)
C'est dur de mourir au printemps, tu sais.
Also, nice digits.

>>12714796
not him but,
you know what the commandments are, and you ignore them. its never too late to change, makes this lent your new permanent lifestyle, and go even further. get married or get out.

>>12714846
We are both Catholic and pretty serious but its not really a sin lol everyone does it :)

>>12714796
>I cannot think outside the construct of being a sexual fleshbag or how it is possible to go without release and therefore, it is healthy. [CPU TEMPERATURE CRITICAL] NO PROBLEM. EVERYTHING IS FINE, CONCLUSION: {DETRACT FROM IDEA OF SLAVE}, OPPONENT BITTER.

>>12714858
>not really a sin lol everyone does it :)

>>12714858
>"living in sin" is not a sin
Not him, but Catholic. Did someone not explain the rules to either of you? It's one thing to have sex outside marriage for purposes other than procreation, but another entirely to say the Church thinks it's not a sin. Yes, everyone does it, but did that make raping kids not a sin too? I'm thinking, no. You don't have to pretend you're a good Catholic and the list of sins have changed on top of your other sins. Just take the sin of sex outside marriage, instead of the sins of sex outside marriage and lying about it not being considered a sin.

>>12714858
Not good bait my friend

>>12714867
>>12714879
>>12714895
>>12714927
Ok guys I'll get married when i can afford it i promise geez take a chill pill

>>12714935
It costs nothing to get married. You want a big expensive ceremony because of your self-inflated pride and vanity.

>>12714935
It's not about the marriage part, it's about appreciating what sex is actually for, and that if you want to reproduce the human race that you owe it to all humans involved to plan for children and their future care.
>Inb4 we're using birth control
That's not a natural form of love, you might as well slip your dick in a watermelon and call it an act of respect for humanity. Doubly so if you're making her poison the waterways with hormonal birth control.

>>12714952
I want to honour my family and make sure everyone has a good time...doesn't need to be huge

>>12714955
But sex brings man and woman closer together. Pair bonding is important for humans even if childbirth isnt involved...

>>12714968
>But sex brings man and woman closer together
For the purpose of reproduction and raising children. This is biology you're trying to refute more than Catholicism at this point.

>>12714968
>I want to honour my family and make sure everyone has a good time...doesn't need to be huge
Pride.
Vanity.
>>12714968
>But sex brings man and woman closer together.
It makes them hate each other because they're reduced to simple means of gratifying their appetite. The moment something better comes along, there is little reason not to jump if you aren't bound to it.

>>12714976
>>12714988
idk what more to say my priest says its no biggie lol so hopefully that covers my ass

>>12715014
No he doesn't.

>>12715017
he's pretty liberal...said if he is too strict on peoples sex lives then everyone would give up on religion all together and gave me a knowing wink haha

>>12714826
Sounds great anon.

>tfw not sure what to give up
I guess I could give up browsing Twitter

Kindness

I'm not gonna give anything up cause I'm pretty good already but im gonna read the bible more

>>12714444
>Quad consisting of fours
Checked

>>12715162
Giving this up or taking it on? Lenten resolutions may be positive as well as negative, of course

>>12714354
I want to believe in God, but I could never believe in the Judeo-Christian conception of one. A God which doesn't seem to care enough about our societies to help us out even slightly.

I've been now a week without masturbation, I fell once a week, and sometimes more, during 3 months. I thought I was never going to make it, I even masturbated in a semi-sleep state (not wet dream)
So if God bestows me the grace, next is you guys
it's been fun, but it's time to move on, bye

>>12715206
>good already
>4chan
yea, I managed to leave for 3 months but I'm here again

>>12715014
>>12715040
It's not about being strict. It's about respecting the mother of your future children enough to say you want to be legally and ethically bound to provide for her and your children. The only reason you're fucking her before giving her assurance you won't cut and run is because you like the option of cutting and running. That's why you're trying to deny biology and your own purported faith, because you know you don't respect the real weight of the relationship you have or the responsibility you should feel towards your future and the future children of humanity.

>>12715416
Catholics believe suffering is in this world because it's an opportunity for us to help each other and develop compassion. A God who would rob us of that chance is not a kind God, or good for us.

>>12714354
Weed. Well, maybe. I felt a sudden urge to quit a couple days ago combined with intense and beautiful jesus feels.

>>12715491
I can believe in similar views, namely that God chooses not to interfere because we ourselves grow as a collective by the lack of intervention. That said, I see no reason why God is even relevant if this were so, and why we shouldn't just focus on ourselves instead. If there is a God out there, but it won't interfere with us, then let's just stop being about it and keep our focus on our own societies and citizens.

>>12715585
God does interfere in Catholicism but not in the vast majority of suffering. (Especially as God often causes us to undergo suffering so we have the opportunity to be better people than we could be without challenges) Why we shouldn't focus on ourselves is because without compassion and love for our fellow man, we become isolated and hateful and refuse grace. You probably don't really want God to intercede in your life at all if you think it's so insular. Islands are easily washed away.

>>12715491
Spoken like a dumb nigger

>>12715639
Would you prefer I just recite the Nicene creed or is that too high of a register?

>>12715614
By "ourselves" I meant our societies and fellow people, not ourselves as individuals. I hate seeing people embroiled in arguments over God, making eachother's day worse and overall being hateful towards eachother all for the sake of a being which isn't interfering in anyone's life in the first place, and certainly isn't worth tearing ourselves apart over. Bothers me to no end, really. Anyone who would verbally or otherwise harm their fellow beings, while being loving and devoted to an invisible one is a terrible person. And I have no respect for anyone who would love any God more than their fellow beings, regardless of that being the order which Jesus might have phrased his commandments. It's sociopathy to love an invisible and unconfirmable being over the frail and weak ones beside you who need it far more than a perfect one does. I used to try to dabble in Christianity but I later outgrew theism and the very notion of loving God, feeling that it's far more noble and worthwhile to direct all one's love to their fellow species instead. Which is what I do now.

>>12715674
It's interesting how you cannot have compassion for other humans who have different thoughts and then think that is love of your fellow man and not isolating. Catholicism has a couple of provisions against proselytism because we consider trying to brainwash others into thinking like we do is not the compassionate solution to other people thinking differently to we do, and I find your attitude more likely to not make you a friend of your fellow man than any faith or lack thereof that doesn't need to call others sociopathic for just reaching a different conclusion about the immaterial to you. It comes across as judgemental.

Giving up any foods with added sugars.
Twitter as well, that place is a fucking cesspool, even the Catholic circles.
>>12715424
Keep at it man, the urge never goes away but your willpower will strengthen. Avoid whatever leads you to sin- for me, ceasing weed was a massive help since it'd muffle my conscience an I'd inevitably end absentmindedly scrolling some thot's Insta.

>>12715491

This is idiotic, by Christian principles most of all. Suffice to say that the most "compassionate" countries are the most well-off. I KNOW you mean something shitty by "compassion", like affective mirroring or mindless charity, but it's true even for THIS compassion.

>>12715728
>This is idiotic, by Christian principles most of all.
It's the official teaching of the Catholic Church. It's in the catechism and you can probably looking up in an encyclopedia too.

>alcohol
I need to drink to relax and not kill myself
>smoking
Need it for stress relief
>porn/masturbation
tfw no gf so i need it
>4chan
No my only friends are here
>video games
I dont even play them anymore - to depressed
>junk food
No i deserve a treat every day for putting up with this shit life

I can't give anythig up so this sucks ass

>>12715762
You can give something to others if you cannot abstain. But you could also give up something you think you can't and have the consolation you tried and maybe even succeeded in doing something you thought was beyond your capabilities.

>>12715762
ime that alcohol thought is caused by alcohol

>>12715762
>tfw no gf so i need it
You don't need it, you've falling for devilish lies.
Cummies are not a right, or a plain function like urinating. It's a grave violation of natural law and there's no justification for it. It's an addiction, and you have to realize what it says about the modern world that it's considered weird to *not* pleasure yourself to footage of women, created in the image of God despite their idiotic life choices, being debased.

>>12715710
I said "no respect", I didn't say anything about compassion. And I'm referring to respect in the same manner that a person would not respect a racist, by virtue of their views, but may still hold compassion for them as a person. I've been around religious people enough to observe the manner by which many of them find no fault in hurting people they interact with while having the utmost love towards a God, that we imagine is less-affected by any lack of love being shown to them than for the frail humans you hold to have been created by them. We see it clearly on 4chan, for example, and the manner most Christians on here (or the larger internet) speak about Athiests, Buddhists, Hindus and otherwise. They really don't care for their fellow humanity, unless and until these people are ideologically-aligned with their own views. Most of the time, there is very little in the way of "love" or "compassion" shown to these or other parties (in some cases the complete absence, or even the opposite wherein Christians show spite for other groups), but never an absence of these essences for "God". It's genuinely repulsive to me, and I can't say I'm sorry if that offends you. That is what I count as "sociopathy". Nor did I say anything about preventing others from having their own views, I'm merely sharing mine. You can tell me I'm wrong, but I could probably find a thread tomorrow itself that showcases exactly what I reference here. Anyone can follow whatever path they want to, but in my view, anyone who would love God more than they love their fellow humans is less noble than someone who directs that compassion onto their own species instead.

In my original comment, I shouldn't have used the term "sociopathy" as such an absolute however, which was rude. It was my own error and the product of my anger at witnessing what the concept of "God" can do to how human beings treat eachother, which I still see and still receive irritation from to this day.

>>12715737

That Catholics are not Christians is common knowledge, but the extent to which they are idiots continues to surprise. Suffering at the macro and micro level is directly proportional with cynicism, misanthropy, despair, etc. and the very reifying of empathy is a strictly Western Phenomenon correlating with the alleviation of the suffering.

The whole point of Lent is completely asinine, and just goes to show how idiotic Catholic theology really is.
So you give up your favorite vice for the time period. Wow, amazing, but then you go back to it when Lent is over. So what was the point?
>to bring us closer to God
Catholics are the most worldy, superficial religious group of all time. It's all about ceremonies and tradition without reason. Zero depth, just surface-level status-quo to maintain the image that you're devout.

>>12715868
You said sociopathic based on views that are literally about immaterial (or "imaginary" as you see it) beings. I find that to be isolating and not really compassionate because it assumes that your thoughts should be in other people's heads, when other people thinking different things does not really make them sociopathic at all but rather just unique human individuals with different thoughts and experiences to you. It does come across as judgemental to declare several million or billion people to be sociopaths purely because of their love of a particular god you personally don't believe in. Lacking respect for so many people who have those thoughts and comparing them to sociopaths does not seem compassionate to me or like a good way of going about making friends even. I think it's probably dangerous to write people off purely because they have thoughts and feeling you don't share, and certainly divesting them of respect and comparing them to racists is not going to win you many friends. You're not coming across as less rude for replacing sociopathy with the racism comparison.

>>12715909
I was going to argue with you, but you're right. Lent is like a glorified New Year's Resolution that you never keep.

>>12715880
>That Catholics are not Christians is common knowledge
Not to Catholics. They have this whole church thing for a couple hundred years before the other major Christian denominations come up. Are Orthodox considered Christians by you, or are you referring to protestants? Do protestants have Lent?

>>12715938
>They have this whole church thing for a couple hundred years before the other major Christian denominations come up.
WE WUZ

>>12715909
Catholicism is all about symbols and ceremonies. It doesn't have to have meaning or depth, as long as you maintain the appearance that you are religious.

>>12715909
>So you give up your favorite vice for the time period. Wow, amazing, but then you go back to it when Lent is over.
You're not meant to go back to vices, you're supposed to give up luxuries for the period as a small reminder of forbearance. But tolerating vices the rest of the year isn't recommended.
There's a lot of reasons behind the ceremonies and traditions, though they're not always immediately legible and the church often had to explain them outside scholarship through other means more accessible to an illiterate congregation. Scholasticism went into what is probably excessive depth about a lot of points of faith and tradition.

>>12715954
No, the holy Roman empire is a later thing too.

>>12714354
vodka, bourbon, whiskey, whisky, tequila, scotch, rum, gin, ouzo, absinthe, schnapps, sherry, cognac, red wine, white wine, rose, lagers, pilsners, IPAs, black and tans, stouts, malt liquor, wine coolers, rubbing alcohol, hand sanitizer...

>>12715933
>Lent is like a glorified New Year's Resolution
Heh, never thought of it like that. My whole family is Catholic, and my siblings and I went to a Catholic school. During Lent, everyone made a bunch of lists of things they were going to give up. It always came off as cheap, like New Years resolutions.

>>12715971
>Teetotalers cheating on Lent again

>>12714777
777

>>12715491
A god of creation may exist, but nevertheless that god offers salvation for a problem he created in exchange for subservience, making him fundamentally a slavedriver. Judeo-Christians like Catholics I guess can't be blamed for trying to find reasons to explain this away, but that is ridiculous. Suffering is in this mundane dimension because, since you were created, you generate needs along with your own existence. Anything detrimental to fulfilling those needs is going to be excruciatingly intolerable. You're familiar with hunger, loneliness, sexual depravity, etc?

Compassion is almost unrelated to the fact that life is a contest to suffer the least. It is borne of empathy, which cannot be learned from some outside source. Because guess what has happened in this cesspool of suffering and "oppurtunity"? Not only has basic empathy been ignored and laughed at by the majority of the soulless population, they are exclusively NOT helping other people. It's a rat race and you'll observe this throughout the entire animal kingdom.

Secondly. A god who would "rob you" of experiencing this by not creating you at all isn't robbing you of anything because you aren't entrapped within a corporeal form to begin with. This is not a natural environment for a spiritual being, especially pointing out how the holiest among us suffer the most and do not survive long. The condition of an infant is the condition of a pure soul, the condition of an elderly person is a soul diluted with the experience of living in this cage. Don't force yourself to believe that this is for your own good, because that would mean that our presence here is for everyone's good, and that the suffering everyone has endured from the moment they were born is supposed to be meaningful somehow.

>>12715974
>>12715933
Lent is like a glorified NYR because that is how you treat it. How you see others treat it. Lent is holy if you treat it with holiness. Decide what you will do without. It is a voluntary suffering.

>>12715762
>>porn/masturbation
>tfw no gf so i need it
False dichotomy.
Abstinence is not only possible but ideal. If you remove stimuli from before your eyes and do not conjure or dwell on lascivious thoughts, you'll find that your sexual urges decrease. I'm hornier if I'm masturbating 3 times a day than if I abstain. I feel much better abstaining too, more focused, more productive. I don't believe in God, so this isn't any sort of psychosomatic guilt.

>>12715909
It's not about vices, brainlet.
It's about luxuries. Your not supposed to have vices any time of year.

>>12715978
buddy, becoming a teetotaler is my greatest wish. more than being a respected author. more than getting in shape.

>>12715995
>A god of creation may exist, but nevertheless that god offers salvation for a problem he created in exchange for subservience, making him fundamentally a slavedriver
I think those are your thoughts rather than the thoughts of Catholics.
>I guess can't be blamed for trying to find reasons to explain this away, but that is ridiculous
It sounds like you blame them anyway.
>Suffering is in this mundane dimension because, since you were created, you generate needs along with your own existence. Anything detrimental to fulfilling those needs is going to be excruciatingly intolerable. You're familiar with hunger, loneliness, sexual depravity, etc?
These again sound like your thoughts and beliefs about human suffering, and they sound terribly isolating to me.
>Compassion is almost unrelated to the fact that life is a contest to suffer the least
I really don't think of life that way and compassion is related to fellow feeling (its literal meaning is "suffering with")
>Secondly. A god who would "rob you" of experiencing this by not creating you at all isn't robbing you of anything because you aren't entrapped within a corporeal form to begin with
This, again, is not reflective of Catholic beliefs, and so I have to assume this is your own theological beliefs.

It sounds like you have preconceptions which are not shared by the Church, and it also sounds like you're angry and lonely. I hope you find a way to be less so without it being at the expense of others.
>Don't force yourself to believe that this is for your own good, because that would mean that our presence here is for everyone's good, and that the suffering everyone has endured from the moment they were born is supposed to be meaningful somehow.
I'm not forcing my beliefs on myself, you don't need to be concerned about that for me if concern is what you were attempting to express here.

>>12716023
Good luck!

>>12715923
I never said "imaginary", you projected that onto me. I also clearly provided an example of people who show no compassion for their fellow humanity, while showing plenty to an immaterial entity, as what I consider "sociopathic" behavior. And I won't withdraw that claim. You seem to be repeating the same point about "sociopathy" here over and over, without even addressing the rest of my own. Your entire post seems to be a misrepresentation of mine. I never said I don't believe in God, or that I consider having love for a God to be sociopathic. I also never called anyone a sociopath, I only described a type of behavior as being "sociopathic". I also clearly stated that my lack of respect is for their position, not for their person. I don't know what else to tell you, if you won't actually respond to any of my points properly.

Do you consider it commendable when Christians completely degrade and harass people outside (and even inside) their own faith, all in the name of "God"? Having no genuine empathy for any strangers outside their creed, only showing them such once and when they've become a part of it? I certainly don't. Believe in whatever God you want, but if such a belief brings you to then show less compassion for your fellow beings than before it (like it does for so many Christians), you've only regressed in your spirituality. Yet many Christians can't even see this, and think their judgmentalness, self-righteousness, intolerance, close-mindedness, selective-empathy and argumentative nature are "virtues" of a kind, which they are therefore "virtuous" for embodying.

>>12716043
Thanks anon. <3

>>12716055
Sorry, I did misquote. You said invisible rather than imaginary.

>also clearly provided an example of people who show no compassion for their fellow humanity, while showing plenty to an immaterial entity, as what I consider "sociopathic" behavior
I don't consider beliefs a behaviour and I think lobbing in the entire of all Judeo-Christian faith into such a category is still missing basic respect for million upon millions of people.
>entire post seems to be a misrepresentation of mine. I never said I don't believe in God, or that I consider having love for a God to be sociopathic. I also never called anyone a sociopath, I only described a type of behavior as being "sociopathic". I also clearly stated that my lack of respect is for their position, not for their person. I don't know what else to tell you, if you won't actually respond to any of my points properly.
I am having a hard time seeing how you think lacking respect for someone's thoughts and comparing it to sociopathic behaviour will be expected to be interpreted as not calling them sociopathic or having respect for them as person. Most people I would wager would see someone saying such things to not respect them as a human with different opinions.
>Do you consider it commendable when Christians completely degrade and harass people outside (and even inside) their own faith, all in the name of "God
That's hardly respectful of others' opinions either and I think again you are condemning millions based on a difference of opinion but I do again point out that Catholicism has provisions against proselytism and the judgement of others.

>Having no genuine empathy for any strangers outside their creed, only showing them such once and when they've become a part of it? I
I don't think being outside the faith precludes one from this based on experience. And again, it would not be the position of the church to laud such behaviour and Catholicism too aligns itself against

>judgmentalness, self-righteousness, intolerance, close-mindedness, selective-empathy and argumentative nature


Again sorry if you feel I misrepresented your post but I've mostly presented my own opinions which are much harder for me to misrepresent.

>>12715040
Surely this is bait

>>12716147
That or anon's priest is following in the tradition of fucking the housekeeper.

>>12716037
>I think those are your thoughts rather than the thoughts of Catholics.
Whether or not they are my thoughts or of the Council of Carthage is irrelevant, that is the logical conclusion of what a creator god is.
>It sounds like you blame them anyway.
Well, if you can call the problem of evil a blame, or by using that argument is somehow leveraging a blame, it's not some dismissive push off but rather calling into question what is responsible for this mess, so I'd agree - it's a blame
>These again sound like your thoughts and beliefs about human suffering, and they sound terribly isolating to me.
I'll say it again, they don't matter if they're my beliefs or anyone else's as long as they're logically sound. Think about what comfort is. It's the absence of suffering. You only know what comfort is because you were born in a context of suffering. For example, the heat is preferred over the cold because you have been cold before, and you find comfort in the heat. A baby in the womb doesn't regard its warmth with any significance because he/she has no context to compare it with. Any pleasures you ever experience come because they stave off the pain of leaving them be. Unless you want to argue that.
>I really don't think of life that way and compassion is related to fellow feeling (its literal meaning is "suffering with")
The point is that empathy is not something that can be taught. Perhaps its present in all of us at some degree in our childhoods, but only the most noble of us will retain it while the rest of us rust over.
>and so I have to assume this is your own theological beliefs.
Of course it isn't Catholic beliefs. These are obviously Gnostic beliefs. Did I say I was currently a Catholic? No...?

And you don't need to be condescending to me. I'm not telling you not to force yourself to believe "Yahweh is good" because I'm concerned for your own philosophical hygiene, I'm saying it because it makes it easy for you to dismiss any challenges to to your worldview

"Well, I'm a Catholic, and the church promises salvation, ergo, whatever grievances you have seem to just be the result of your bitterness, we're all going to make it and life is tolerable, et cetera"

>>12716164
>Whether or not they are my thoughts or of the Council of Carthage is irrelevant, that is the logical conclusion of what a creator god is.
It seems to be your conclusion, and it's not the only logical conclusion of a creator god. Protestants for instance believe that predestination is logical based on their premise of a creator god, while for Catholicism that is a massive heresy based on their logical conclusion. I don't think you conclusion is the only one but rather the one you have chosen.

>Well, if you can call the problem of evil a blame, or by using that argument is somehow leveraging a blame, it's not some dismissive push off but rather calling into question what is responsible for this mess, so I'd agree - it's a blame
I don't think blame for the problem of evil extends to the congregation of any particular faith. I meant it sounds like you blame the faithful, and you seem to be attributing blame elsewhere here. We were talking about that which you called ridiculous, those trying to find reasons to explain, when I said it sounded like you blame them anyway.

>I'll say it again, they don't matter if they're my beliefs or anyone else's as long as they're logically sound
Even if all logical systems were congruent, which they are not and have very separate premises and parameters to begin with, I don't support the idea that logical soundness is a guarantee of a compassionate belief. Utility monsters are generally not considered compassionate, for an example, though they are logically sound.

>example, the heat is preferred over the cold because you have been cold before, and you find comfort in the heat.
I think this assumes all humans to have that reaction when plenty of people prefer cold to heat and vice versa. This seems like a chopping down of the diversity of opinions on what is suffering or comfort. Some people are comforted by being chained up and whipped by midgets, but that doesn't extrapolate even across all BDSM preferences, and some within the group would be particularly discomforted by it. We have preference because we are unique, not because of suffering necessarily.

>The point is that empathy is not something that can be taught. Perhaps its present in all of us at some degree in our childhoods, but only the most noble of us will retain it while the rest of us rust over.
I believe empathy is learnt. That is why if infants are left without a primary carer to bond with, they do not develop.

>Of course it isn't Catholic beliefs. These are obviously Gnostic beliefs. Did I say I was currently a Catholic? No.
That doesn't really pose an argument against Catholicism which is what I assumed you were doing. To follow the logic of Catholicism, you would need to operate from their premises, rather than premises antithetical to the logical system. [1/2]

>>12716164
>And you don't need to be condescending to me
I apologise if you felt condescended to as that was not my intention. I assumed when you said I didn't have to force myself into my beliefs that you thought I was forcing my beliefs and were concerned I might be under duress I wasn't experiencing. I see now you meant you just think I dismiss any challenges to my worldview easily, to which I would object even if only on the basis of trying to engage with your objections.
>"Well, I'm a Catholic, and the church promises salvation, ergo, whatever grievances you have seem to just be the result of your bitterness, we're all going to make it and life is tolerable, et cetera
I don't know who you are quoting but Catholicism does not promise salvation. I think you might be thinking of a protestant sect.

>>12715995
Why should we blame God for corrupt and unfair Capitalist economies?

>>12716243
>It seems to be your conclusion, and it's not the only logical conclusion of a creator god. Protestants for instance believe that predestination is logical based on their premise of a creator god, while for Catholicism that is a massive heresy based on their logical conclusion. I don't think you conclusion is the only one but rather the one you have chosen.
1. A creator god exists
2. The god demands subservience in exchange for salvation
3. Therefore, the god is fundamentally an enslaver
That is a logical inference, and those are not subjective to tastes, et cetera, you either accept it or deny it. "Is everything predetermined" is a more complicated question than "what does a creator god's character and actions demonstrably show about his nature"

>I'm blaming the faithful
Just because I can't blame your reasoning for trying to conform to your doctrine doesn't mean I can't call out your attempt. Sorry. That was such a weird accusation I misinterpreted it.

>Utility monsters are generally not considered compassionate, for an example, though they are logically sound.
First of all, all logic is either sound or unsound. 2+2 doesn't magically become something other than 4 just because you're having a bad day or something. I really don't understand what you're going for, claiming logic is a subjective practice. Then again, I don't understand your complacence in your spiritual degradation either. Utility monsters are considered uncompassionate because they are not compassionate and that is an objective fact. To be focused on materialism and hedonism by definition is morally ugly to begin with, and if that makes you into a monster in character towards others then all the same. Unless you forgot morality was objective too. The beginning parameters of their logic are not different from holy ones and neither are their conclusions, but their moral judgement is different, drawing the boundary of good and evil

>I think this assumes all humans to have that reaction when plenty of people prefer cold to heat and vice versa.
Testing my temper with bad comprehension of my metaphors is pretty low of you pal. This has nothing to do with how you like your AC on in the summer, duh, maybe I should have used a word like "warmth", or maybe I should have said "temperature which is ideal for their metabolism to maintain homeostasis" or is that too verbose for this subject? That is, isn't it?
Also the means of sexual fetishism doesn't bring about comfort, it's the response to the stimuli that does, nevermind your gross example. I'm not saying preferences don't exist and I'm astonished I have to do that
>I believe empathy is learnt.
Well you can believe whatever the hell you want but that doesn't necessarily translate to truth does it? Perhaps a baby who is predisposed to empathy will cite their loneliness as a reason to empathize with others, right there is something that makes more sense than this right here. Because what about fuck too long

>>12716263
I am familiar with Catholic ideology as I've spent most of my formative years as one. As an apologist I was unchallenged in all regards except with my own understanding of the problem of evil. The Catholic church is lacking in an explanation for this. How can a creator god be good, if he creates us and gives us no other choice but to obey him or suffer the misery of being in this world without God?

About salvation.

Both Yahweh in the Tanakh and Jesus in the New Testament promise salvation. However, salvation in the Tanakh is contingent upon subservience whereas salvation in the New Testament (excluding Saul of Tarsus) is contingent on freedom.

>>12716452
Becuz hes a jew lol

Which Catholic radio stations do you listen to, brethren?
WAOB is VERY comfy.
Listen to it all day.

>>12716925
I listen online by the way. Only complaint is there isn't an arhieve.

gave up coffee...my god the headaches were bad today. constant dull aching all day long.

i finally caved and had some mildly caffeinated tea just to ease the pain a bit. yeah im no saint

Listen live
https://www.waob.org/

>>12716643
>1. A creator god exists
>2. The god demands subservience in exchange for salvation
That second premise is not Catholic, nor related or necessary to a creator god. So, for system which require subservience, yes, subservience is necessary, but such subservience is not a premise of Catholicism.
You cannot make that inference about all creator gods nor about all Christian creator gods, as for a lot of sects, and especially Catholicism, there is no subservience requirement and salvation is not tied to subservience at all.
>Just because I can't blame your reasoning for trying to conform to your doctrine doesn't mean I can't call out your attempt. Sorry. That was such a weird accusation I misinterpreted it.
It's not my attempt to which I was referring when I said that you seem to blame them, but the attempts of many which you called ridiculous. We were not talking about my attempts at the time, but a much broader set of people.

>First of all, all logic is either sound or unsound.
Logical systems are sound or unsound within that system. You cannot call a logical system sound or unsound without placing parameters on the system which judges its soundness.
>2+2 doesn't magically become something other than 4
If you logical system assumes these are linear numbers under set Q, that is true. Outside of that, you don't get 4 apples by adding 2 oranges to 2 apples, because not all 2's are of equal units or from the same set. This is what I mean by logic only works within the parameters of a logical system. It is subject to the parameters of the system, rather than subjective. Human opinions are subjective, rather than logical, which is why someone with an experience of formal logic will append the idea of logical systems as not necessarily applicable without the system, despite internal congruence, while someone without a background in logic will assume all logic is based on the same premises and parameters. Much like physicists will hate anyone who doesn't bar the e=MC^2 equation because without barring the equation it doesn't work, but most people will recognise the equation without the bar which sets its parameters.

>Then again, I don't understand your complacence in your spiritual degradation either
Remember how I said coming across as judgemental is likely to make you find it hard to make friends? Assuming you know the state of my soul is bizarre, especially to a Catholic since we maintain we cannot tell our own state of grace.
>Utility monsters are considered uncompassionate because they are not compassionate and that is an objective fact.
They are logically sound within their parameters though, and not necessarily compassionate, so from this you can extrapolate that not all things that are logically sound within their own systems are compassionate or prone to producing compassion in those who hold to those logic systems [1/?]

>>12716996
The guy on there now is lame. I like the guy with the accent. He has such passion.

NOT

IN

THE

BIBLE

If you need a special week to give something up you're not doing it right. Same thing goes for new years resolutions. As for lent, you are called to mortify sin DAILY.

STOP SINNING RIGHT NOW.

Remember to pray the Rosary every day, Catholic Anons.

>>12716643
[2/?]
.
>To be focused on materialism and hedonism by definition is morally ugly to begin with, and if that makes you into a monster in character towards others then all the same. Unless you forgot morality was objective too.
I'm not sure how this relates to utility monsters, and it seems to come with no reference to my post. Is this more of your theological assertions?
>The beginning parameters of their logic are not different from holy ones and neither are their conclusions, but their moral judgement is different, drawing the boundary of good and evil
Mathematics disagrees, but this too could be one of your religious beliefs as some groups do believe that their form of math is more divinely inspired and true than the people with Erdos numbers' math. Please clarify.

>Testing my temper with bad comprehension of my metaphors is pretty low of you pal.
That was not my intention. You do come across as angry and quick to judge, but I did not expect saying that humans like different things out of individuality rather than suffering would enrage anyone.
>maybe I should have said "temperature which is ideal for their metabolism to maintain homeostasis" or is that too verbose for this subject? That is, isn't it?
There would still not be a homogeneous homeostasis arising from suffering, and I hope this does not come across as an attempt to conjure up emotion in you, since I really would say the same thing to anyone and not expect any really emotional reaction to that. Verbosity isn't really a problem for me, since I do like to read and this is a literature board. I don't think it lends weight to your point though regardless of how it is phrased.
>Also the means of sexual fetishism doesn't bring about comfort, it's the response to the stimuli that does
I believe this is your opinion but I have heard the opposite from people who engage in fetishism, since not all fetishism is viewed as a response to stimulus but rather the active searching out comfort through stimulus. I think it was Freud who said that all sadomasochism misses its aim, so certainly some people see it as purely means without the response to stimulus ever being achieved.
>gross example
I don't find it gross in any sense, but that is a matter of opinion.
>I'm not saying preferences don't exist and I'm astonished I have to do that
I disagreed on the source of preference (suffering vs individuality) not that preference exists. I do however think you cut off a lot of preference to whittle it down to your conclusion however.
>Well you can believe whatever the hell you want but that doesn't necessarily translate to truth does it?
No but it does translate to empirical evidence of the development of empathy in neurology and child care. They might all be wrong and the Romanian orphanages were right, but I doubt it.

>>12714354

i don't believe in god either but the idea of denying myself something until easter is a pretty interesting thing in self-discipline.

maybe soft drinks, but i don't drink too many of them and when i do they're diet. actually, that will be what i give up. when does lent start? i'll give up soft drinks.

>>12717001
So this conversation is starting to become more about generating retorts to the various issues it brought up rather than talking about the demiurge, which is what I had intended. Which is fine but currently I do not have this sort of time. I think having philosophical discourse is good for this board and thinking about your faith is basically a prayer of its own, so I encourage you to keep doing so, as I am going to work on more steadfastly after my exams. I'll be participating in religious discussion on /lit/ until Easter, and next week I'll especially have more time to produce more value than this performance here. It's with these notes that I forfeit all points discussed here, as lame and impotent that sounds.

Good luck with your mortification and fasting and have a productive lent, I hope you and I both get closer to Christ

>>12716643
>>12716680
>>Perhaps a baby who is predisposed to empathy will cite their loneliness as a reason to empathize with others, right there is something that makes more sense than this right her
Again, medical and social sciences think it makes sense and I have a feeling they are better placed to know
>>12716680
>I am familiar with Catholic ideology as I've spent most of my formative years as one. As an apologist I was unchallenged in all regards except with my own understanding of the problem of evil. The Catholic church is lacking in an explanation for this.
Again, the Church's explanation is in the catechism, and it would be surprising that you went unchallenged on this point as twelve year olds are required to know it to be confirmed as members.
>How can a creator god be good, if he creates us and gives us no other choice but to obey him or suffer the misery of being in this world without God?
This is heretical to the Catholic Church, violating not only the doctrine of invincible ignorance, but also those of judgement and grace. I would be surprised someone who was well versed in Catholic doctrine would not recognise it as against Church teaching on many major points.
>Both Yahweh in the Tanakh and Jesus in the New Testament promise salvation. However, salvation in the Tanakh is contingent upon subservience whereas salvation in the New Testament (excluding Saul of Tarsus) is contingent on freedom
Again, Catholicism does not promise salvation. Salvation is contingent on freedom, but not caused by freedom, as not being saved is also contingent on freedom though not caused by it either. [3/3]

>>12717115
today

>>12717093
>>12716022

>>12717133
I think you have tried to derail a thread about Catholicism to one about another religion, and have provided no argument against Catholicism, along with providing some pretty big errors of understanding of the catechism and dogma of the faith. It's not a very intellectually honest debate on your behalf, and you do come across as angry and judgemental, so I don't know if you are unintentionally denigrating your own professed faith or false flagging as a gnostic to bring them into disrepute. As such, I don't know whether to wish you luck in your faith or in bringing it down. But I'd recommend that you think about why you have such a focus on anger judgement and loneliness, and how your ways of addressing it might be counterproductive to your stated goals. The human experience might not be so dog eat dog as your preconception of it and that may well help you in some aspects of life, but it makes you come across as one who embodies that mentality rather than one who is against it.

>>12714777
high IQ post
>>12714796
low IQ slave to emotions.

>>12714826
Based. I'm doing a full fast starting tomorrow, as in "bowl of rice a day" type shit. Going to try and cut down on drinking a lot, too.
>>12714858
fucking hell you're a retard. Read the bible, motherfucker.

>>12717115
Good luck anon. I got a fanta lemon today because I was thirsty walking home, the first one I had in years, and you have no idea how incredibly rank they are until you stop drinking them. A lot of their attraction is habit and Lent is about as long as it takes to stop a habit. I dumped it after the first gulp, and you would have to pay me money to finish one now.

>>12717201
haha fuck you too nigger ;)

>>12716105
hey anon sorry but I'm really sleepy and can't think straight but I'll respond tomorrow if the thread is still up, but I just want to say i love you and hope you have a nice night and good luck with your personal faith/tradition <3 :-)

>>12717205
High IQ observations.

>>12714444
>>12715213
>>12714843
>>12714841
>>12714817
>>12714460

Salvete, friends. I enjoyed the responses to my post, and I'm glad that I could inspire a positive emotion in your minds. As Ash Wednesday draws to a close, let me invite you all to contemplation with one of my favorite pieces of holy music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36Y_ztEW1NE

Bless you all, friends, both Christian and like myself unbelieving. Though we have our many differences, and we lean on different pillars, may we be united in a hope for renewal, a hope for purification, and a furtherance of our own self-sacrifice and self-improvement, so that others may join us as we lead by example a virtuous life. Gratias, amici.

Jesus was such a false messiah.
I was just at service and one of the preachers refered to the kingdom of Jesus and an ‘upside down, inside out kingdom’. Think about that. Jesus, who preached his anti will / anti life gospel is known to bring about an upside down kingdom. Christianity is a shit test for those on the path to power. Power and pleasure are the only things holy.

>>12717584
>service
This is a Catholic thread, jaffacake

>accidentally ate two pieces of pepperoni pizza and broke fast
end me

>>12717613
Do not feel so down, friend. We all have shortcomings like this. No need to feel ashamed. Just as St Paul writes, all have fallen short. What matters is that you fight the good fight, however it may engage you. :-)

>>12717093

Catholics abhor the Bible more than Muslims and abhor Jesus more than Jews.

I quit caffeine, masturbation, and alcohol three days ago. Not gone well. I have a huge headache and my balls hurt.

>>12717861
Unless you suddenly stopped from like 5 times daily, then your testicles hurt only from spurious arousal throughout the day. Seeing sexual images, and thinking sexual thoughts gives rise to this which in turn causes your reproductive system to prepare for release. Vasocogestion ensues when release does not follow. It's like complaining about pain in your stomach needing to throw up, but withholding it, and not realizing that gorging yourself is what did this. Avoid stimuli. Avoid thoughts. Block images on 4chan.

>>12718349
>Unless you suddenly stopped from like 5 times daily
Of course not haha

>intermittent fasting (eating only from 4pm to 10pm)
>nofap, noporn
>no candy or energy drinks (my biggest vice)

Added sugar, procrastination, and hard alcohol.