/lit/ - Literature

wait that's a pic of jean-luc delarue

Bataille hegelian. He hate the hegelian.

>>12699777
All the french edgelords hated each other. They were all trying to steal each others shine, or that's how they saw other's successes. They were all forming alliances and turning on each other and trying to discredit their rivals.

He reminds me of 400 Blows kid for some reason

>>12700057
Guattari was the homie though.
But why?

>>12700365
Idk, Freud is the obvious precursor, and he himself got pissed at Jung for coming up with his own ideas

Lacan was very egotistical, kind of a fraud but at the same time some of his stuff was good. He did ridiculous shit like reduce the length of his appointments with patients from an hour all the way down to a few minutes, just so he could make more money because of course people were taking it up the ass to be psychoanalyzed by him

Lacan was also very threatened by Deleuze, and turned on Guattari for writing Anti-Oedipus

Lacan also got pissed at Guattari for almost publishing an article in Barthes journal or something, Lacan was very threatened by Barthes as well.

Barthes S/Z was basically him trying to outdo Lacan's seminar on "The Purloined Letter"

Foucault also often said basically the same shit that Barthes was saying with different words, just because he didn't want to admit that he was working in the same framework and that perhaps Barthes had thought of it earlier than him

As you can see I'm not a huge fan of these guys, so take my bias into account. All that shiz is true though.

>>12700379
Thanks for the thoughtful response.
I had read some Foucault in college but I've only recently started my attempt at understanding D&G.

>>12700379
great response

>>12700379
>He did ridiculous shit like reduce the length of his appointments with patients from an hour all the way down to a few minutes
Arguably he was doing this for efficiency. Sometimes in a session you will have a single instance of revelation, after which everything else feels like an afterthought. Why bother continuing when everything that needed to be said has been said?

>>12699777
Contrarianism: for some time Bataille was the most underground, edgy mofo in town; basically, the cool thing to do was to be very well acquainted with his works. Deleuze, wanting to be the new Parisian cool kid (he also wanted to upgrade this kind of swag), had to not like him.

Sadly (and I've heard a lot of stories about D&G from their friends, some in my family), Deleuze didn't achieved Bataille's level of style and sexual degeneracy. Most of what he and Guattari did was to try their luck with 16 yo girls, and some orgies with the local bourgeoisie.

>>12701107
>Deleuze didn't achieved Bataille's level of style and sexual degeneracy. Most of what he and Guattari did was to try their luck with 16 yo girls, and some orgies with the local bourgeoisie.

This is why I only read Kant, neoplatonists and scholastics.

>>12700249
What do you mean for some reason. Its the frenchness and turtleneck and thats it.

>>12701166
It looks like he's the kid all grown up. Face and demeanor. "The Frenchness" I suppose.

Bump

Bump

>>12701107
I found no clear references of drugs use (apart tobacco and alcohol) in Deleuze work or interviews, but references to Castaneda's work in 1000 plateaux. Him and Guattari were criticized for promoting schizo lifestyle and this kind of experiments.

Foucault did LSD but at my knowledge he didn't write about it.

>>12701116
You have no hands bro.

>>12701116
based.

>>12700249
More like Blows 400 kids am I right

>>12699777
Where does he say he hated Bataille?

>>12702354
There was quite some hash in Guattari's clinic (not for patients obviously) but I haven't heard anything about other drugs

>>12699777
did he? source? my guess would be bataille describes in a more vulgar way the sort of plays of energy that deleuze wants to aestheticize and push forward with. they share similiar nietzschean sentiments but with different flavors.

>>12700379
Assuming that Deleuze actually hated Bataille (which I´m not sure about that), I don´t understand how those things could justify it. I can understand the hate from Lacan to Bataille and vice versa since Lacan married Bataille´s ex wife, but I don´t think that has something to do with the Deleuze-Bataille relation.

>>12702868
hell yeah dude

>>12701107
Can you cite some sources on Deleuze's degeneracy? If I recall correctly he lived a fairly domestic life.

>>12700379

Lacan was a very pathetic man overall, very unlikable, he also plagiarized Derrida on the purloined letter. I greatly dislike him and all of his followers.

>>12701107

Bataille if anything, is the most consistent writer with what he wrote,probably more so than De Sade. He actually meant what he said, there is no inch of irony in the things he describes.

>>12706636
Bataille was literally cucked by Lacan. While Lacan was obnoxious and in far too many ways a conman, he did have some interesting ideas, I don't blame people for reading him.

>>12701107
Guattari was a notorious womanizer, not even the good kind of degenerate. I'd like to hear some of the stories you mentioned because Deleuze was in appearance a family man (a drunkard who chainsmoked, but still a family man). The only known notable erotic thing he did was date some actress or whatever kind of star she was before he married Fanny.

>>12699777
Deleuze: isn't life great if you can make it work?
Bataille: sex and death and shit and death and sex and shit

Not sure D ever said he hated Bataille, but it wouldn't surprise me.

>>12699777
Because nobody cares about what some dead guy thinks.

Shit thread OP

>>12706769
Go back to tumblr transfriend.

>>12706798
>not caring about some dead retard
>tumblr

ahahahahaahahahaahahahahaha

>>12706576
Only sources I have are family members and some of their friends

>>12706742
I mostly have stories about Guattari, like the few times he proposed a quick fuck to my father's underrage female friends (he used to ask very casually, sometimes in front of their bfs). One quite similar about Deleuze too. In fact most of the stories I heard are about them being rejected by teenagers. But I know they fucked a lot with Guattari's clinic staff, and again with the local bourgeoisie. If I remember well Deleuze was deep in the orgy scene mostly in Paris and Guattari both in Paris and the surroundings of his clinic.

Still you have to realize that it was a common thing in the intellectual bourgeoisie of that time. My grandpa (who was not as "liberated" and "revolutionary" as these two) used to do that as well (not sure about the underage girls though)

>>12706854
>source: my ass

Can't believe you actually typed out all of this LARPing fiction.

>>12706854
The only story I would believe is of Guattari since that matches his behavior from autobiographical sources, but none of the biographies of Deleuze really mention such things about him participating in orgies and hitting on underage woman.

>>12706854
I take it you"re from a Parisian family. Any hint on how to infiltrate the secret sex orgy society ? For purposes of intellectual accomplishment.

>>12706854
I dont believe the Deleuze stuff he said he lived a boring academic life

>>12706854
>he used to ask very casually, sometimes in front of their bfs.

Chad as fuck.


>In fact most of the stories I heard are about them being rejected by teenagers.

Top kek.


>But I know they fucked a lot with Guattari's clinic staff, and again with the local bourgeoisie. If I remember well Deleuze was deep in the orgy scene mostly in Paris and Guattari both in Paris and the surroundings of his clinic.

That feel when I'll never be a French degenerate organizing orgies with the mentally ill.

>>12707101
Honestly I'm a French degenerate and I haven't been in any orgy. Just kill me already.

I beleive it was either in Dialogues II or the Negotiations collection that Deleuze said he was put off by Bataille's "interiority," i.e. the subjective dimension rendered as the confession of a "dirty little secret."

For liberal readers of Deleuze, one secret must forever be repressed: Deleuze hated. While his
work teems with affirmation, even by way of his less than consensual but favored philosophical
analogy of ‘making children/monsters from the back,’ there is one thinker too reviled for even
Deleuze to thoroughly penetrate: Georges Bataille. While sparse, his remarks on Bataille betray
the image of Deleuze as a perpetual affirmation machine. For this reason, Bataille, as the
Deleuzian conceptual persona non grata, invites us to consider a state of delirious contamination
that was too dangerous to be taken on (from behind). The paper contends that Deleuze’s
gratuitous hatred of Bataille allows for a rereading of the philosophical problematic of
ressentiment and a reassessment of the power of death in Deleuze’s own philosophy. We will
revisit Bataille’s ‘omnidirectional acephalic revolution’ to save Deleuze’s dark side from the
Enlightenment get-along-gang of necrophobic affirmations.

For liberal readers of Deleuze, one secret must forever be repressed: Deleuze hated. While his work teems with affirmation, even by way of his less than consensual but favored philosophical analogy of ‘making children/monsters from the back,’ there is one thinker too reviled for even Deleuze to thoroughly penetrate: Georges Bataille. While sparse, his remarks on Bataille betray the image of Deleuze as a perpetual affirmation machine. For this reason, Bataille, as the Deleuzian conceptual persona non grata, invites one to consider a state of delirious contamination that was too dangerous to be taken on (from behind). Deleuze’s gratuitous hatred of Bataille allows for a rereading of the philosophical problematic of ressentiment and a reassessment of the power of death in Deleuze’s own philosophy. But Bataille’s ‘omnidirectional acephalic revolution’ can save Deleuze’s dark side from the Enlightenment get-along-gang of necrophobic affirmations.

>>12707120
link paper plz

>>12699777
Reminder that Deleuze was a pleb that liked anglo literature, even Kerouac, over such refined transgressors as Bataille

>>12707135
http://piratesandrevolutionaries.blogspot.com/2008/12/deleuze-cinema-movie-list-cinema-1_28.html?m=1
big D was patrish af

>>12707130
>"Persona non grata: on Deleuze's gratuitous reading of Bataille" by Etienne Turpin
I can find no more than the abstract

>>12707128
>making children/monsters from the back
what does this mean

>>12707148
>But, above all, my way of coping at that time was, I am inclined to believe, to conceive of the history of philosophy as a sort of buggery or, which amounts to the same thing, a sort of immaculate conception. I imagined myself as arriving in the back of an author and giving him a child, which would be his and which nevertheless would be monstruous. That it really be his is very important, because the author had to really say everything that I made him say. But it was also necessary that the child be monstruous, because it was necessary to go through all sorts of decenterings, slippage, breakage, secret emissions that gave me a lot of pleasure

>>12707162
thanks

>>12707128
This sounds like some trolling copypasta with the names changed. It got me interested though, but on the surface it seems like something provocative yet lacking in substance, like those claims that Deleuze is a phenomenologist. Nonetheless, such claims can be productive.

>>12707172
It's actually the abstract of a paper (>>12707142) but I can't seem to find the full thing. It indeed sounds interesting though, and seems to line up with Andrew Culp's 'Dark Deleuze' project somewhat

>>12707110
I had no idea there was a Dialogues II and it turns out there isn't one strictly speaking, but rather a reprinted version which has two extra texts added on. Still great though, thanks!

Also, D.H. Lawrence's dirty little secret is what Deleuze used against psychoanalysis as well so it's no surprise he uses it against Bataille, but it also doesn't make Bataille some archetypal enemy of Deleuze, just one among many since Deleuze talked about liking those authors in the history of philosophy who wrote against interiority.

>>12707182
I know, that's why I said that I'm interested in it. Without seeing the paper I can only speculate on it, maybe it's something mindblowing. Most of the time these things don't pay off though, at least in my experience.

what is interiority?

>>12707190
Yes I've had that experience too :-\

>>12699777
he hated porn

>>12700379
>Foucault also often said basically the same shit that Barthes was saying with different words, just because he didn't want to admit that he was working in the same framework and that perhaps Barthes had thought of it earlier than him
yes, who was first barthes' death of the author or foucault's author as a "function" or whatever?

>>12700881
i think it's like meditation, enlightenment may be immediate like lightning, but you need the pointless sitting for that moment to happen

>>12707194
At least in this case it's probably more a matter of the principle of interiority when it's excessive, like when you tell someone that to look deep down into themselves in order to find the answer, which can end up justifying anything or an endless search that is fruitful only by coincidence. It does not mean merely theorizing about the self or contemplating it since most authors that Deleuze liked were concerned with such things, even if the result is a rejection of some metaphysical Cartesian subject in favor of a more pluralistic approach of drives and assemblages or something similar.

>>12700379
This sounds like fucking high school drama. Are the french all women?

>>12707280
They are all Becoming-Woman. So yes.

>>12707280
Writers, artists and public intellectuals tend to be like that. Remember a lot of their success in life are tied to others' perception and discourse about them, much more so than the average manual worker or even the average uni prof.

>>12707254
what is deleuze's theory of self?

>>12700379
from felix's myspace (1992)

Bump

Because he was Deleuzional

>>12707207
eturpin@uow.edu.au

>>12706896
It's not that secret and there's several ways:

1. Be rich (old wealth is preferable though, almost necessary)
or
2. Be successful (not just academically, you must also be somewhat well known in the ""intellectual"" circles)
or
3. Have a very hot gf and go with her

In any cases you need to be well connected. I've never been to one personally. I'm not even sure that it's still a thing in those circles

>>12706857
Ok

>>12706895
>>12706962
Like I said I haven't heard much about Deleuze

>>12699777
He spilt his coffee in the cafe

>>12707211
I believe it was Barthes