/lit/ - Literature

Why do you look down on the subject of feminism?

>>12703153
I believe that a large part of their current claims have a basis in reality but distorted in a way to further their agenda. I also consider they are being facetious when they claim to defend equality, as I have never seen a feminist address inequalities suffered by men. Most of all, I find ideas such as the "patriarchy" to be somewhat outdated in today's Western society.

>>12703317
>I have never seen a feminist address inequalities suffered by men.
what are those inequalities and how should feminists addres them? are men doing anything about them?

>>12703144
What do you think the chances are that in 5-10 years, you would cringe re-reading your post? It reeks of the late teen/early 20s type that watches conservatives and philosophy on youtube.

>>12703144
Maybe it would help if you started from the beginning with Mary Wollstonecraft.

>>12703144
Read bell hooks and Camille paglia.

>>12703386
Whether men or not are doing anything about them isn't really the point, if you ask me. If you repeatedly claim that your movement is for equality, I believe it would be hypocritical not to address that those issues exists and that they need to be fixed.
For example, the lack of shelters for males who feel abused by their partners, be they other men or women. How the successful suicide rate for men is much higher. There is a vaster rate of homelessness among men than of women. Work related deaths and injuries are also higher on the male side. Men are more likely to be recipient of the HIV virus, and breast cancer treatment seems to receive a lot of attention even though more men die of cancer per year. (Federal Funds for Sex Specific Cancer Research
>Women – Breast Cancer – $631,000,000 - 40,000 Deaths
>Men – Prostate Cancer – $300,000,000 - 33,000 Deaths).
Those are just a few. I'm not asking them to dedicate themselves in heart and soul to those causes, I just wish they would refrain from speaking about equality if they don't mean it.

Still, you're making this about me; do you have any books to recommend me so I can better understand the origins of the movement and correct or ascertain my views?

>>12703153
The assertion that men and women are equal is absolute brainlet tier.

>>12703435
God forbid someone admits his ignorance of a subject and tries to educate himself. I feel that no matter what I did, you'd still find a way to shit on me.

>>12703461
>>12703450
Taking notes; thank you.

>>12703462
Sorry, I made a mistake; I remembered the death rate of cancer being higher among males; I didn't look at the numbers close enough.

>>12703462
there are shelters for men, they just don't tend to need them as much because they are usually financially independent or are embarrassed about it because muh masculinity
>suicide rate
women tend to have a better support system because again men don't wanna be vulnerable because muh masculinity
>Work related deaths and injuries are also higher on the male side.
this is because patriarchal gender roles forced men into those riskier jobs
>HIV
gays not protecting themselves, i don't know why you mention this
>breast/prostate cancer
women organize themselves better around these issue i guess


read: Simone De Beauvoir, Shulamith Firestone, Andrea Dworkin, Luce Irigaray, bell hooks, Kathi Weeks, Silvia Federici, Judith Butler

>>12703643
There are two shelters for men in the US, man, one of them opened in 2015 in Arkansas and another one in Texas in 2017. So yeah, there are, but two shelters in a country as big as Europe doesn't seem all that equal to me.
https://nypost.com/2017/10/29/these-shelters-help-male-victims-of-domestic-violence/
>suicide rate
I believe there might be more to it than that; it is unlikely that you can reduce such a complex issue to a simple sentence and then go on to ignore it. Even still, wouldn't it be then one of feminism's concerns the support of these men instead of saying "lol, not my problem" since, as you claim, the issue is rooted on gender roles?
>this is because patriarchal gender roles forced men into those riskier jobs
Or maybe because female lives are all around more valuable than men's and that's an ugly truth feminists prefer to obviate.
>women organize themselves better around these issue i guess
And you just leave it at that, cool; no further measures are required.

Once more, I did not ask you to point at the reasons for these occurrences just to wave them away as though they are not important; I'm asking why these issues, which you admit are real, are not taken into account by feminism, which claims to fight for equality. I wouldn't complain if they just went up and admitted it that they only or mainly care for female issues; this wouldn't sound so hypocritical to me then.

>>12703643
Forgot to add; thank you for the recommendations; I'll check them out. Any particular books of them you'd want to highlight?

>>12703643
your absolute lack of sympathy for men is why feminism is a joke

People always defend their own

>>12703144

>>12703144
If you read feminist literature you will either:
a) believe it and hate yourself and everyone for your "privilege"(if male)/"oppression"(if female)
b) you see that it is a cult that lives of blaming everyone for keeping you down and making their believers sad and angry.

Feminism is for loosers and even a step below Communism. You have been warned

>>12703827
Thank you. Anything you'd like to add about this book? Something that make you pick it up from all the others?

>>12703317
You're misguided in believing that feminists don't address male problems; they do. In fact, feminism pins male problems on the patriarchy: because men are expected to be strong, courageous, endurant, stoic, self-sustaining, etc. society treats them less compassionately than women. This is especially seen in hostage negotiations. The women and children are bargained for first, and the men last. A feminist would argue that this is because our patriarchal society enforces the idea that women are meant to be dependent and weak while men are meant to be independent and strong. Don't get your information from political youtubers, my friend.

>>12703909
is it the patriarchy when women abuse their husbands

>>12703802
I wouldn't defend a manlet in a war against Netherlanders.

>>12703930

"The patriarchy" would be people ignoring the beating because they expect the man to either put up with it or not be "such a wuss".

>>12703986
im talking about the women doing the abuse
For example how could we teach women not to abuse their husbands

>>12703889
Butler is a postmodern feminists that seeks to eliminate gender identity. She is unlike conventional feminists who assert that gender identity is necessary but imperfect. In fact, Butler takes the radical position that sex and gender are both socially constructed and should be challenged. It's a pretty dense book but nevertheless a satisfying read.

>>12703909
I don't follow political youtubers, just to make that clear.
I have heard your argument before, and I don't see why I should deny it, so I won't. I am willing to acknowledge that feminism might have a point on that, even if I am not 100% behind the idea. I would like to know, how would a matriarchy handle that situation you described? Would the absence of the so called "patriarchy", whose existence and technicalities is still unclear to me, solve any of that? Are we not built biologically to care more for females than males, simply because of their reproductive value, which leads to an over protectiveness over them? I don't know about you, but female screams for help will always sound more distressing to me than those of a man, and this should not be interpreted as me saying that a man in need is not worthy of help.
Basically, my premise is that I have difficulty attributing the collective superior value we place on female lives over men's on the existence of an invisible system other than nature.

>>12703991

Some people are just going to be shitty. Feminism has less to do with individuals than trying to reform society and remove the expectations places on people due to their gender/etc.

>>12704012
>Some people are just going to be shitty
Well then why do we need to teach men not to rape.

>>12703996
It sounds a tad too extreme for me and contradictory of all I've been taught and believe in, so, being honest, I can't promise that I will read it, but unless I am willing to challenge my views I won't be able to ascertain them, so I suppose that means I really ought to. I'll add it to the list; I'm not a fan of postmodernism, but that might just be because I've never really properly understood it.

>>12704016

You don't "teach men not to rape", you teach people that sex isn't something that men try to get and women try not to give up.

>>12704096
Some people are just going to be shitty and rape anyway

>>12704022
The argument is that all categories are constructed and are fundamentally arbitrary. Any category is only as good as it is useful and conducive to our happiness. Sex, then, is subject to attack from these angles: is it useful, and does it make us happy.

>>12704134
>Any category is only as good as it is useful and conducive to our happiness.
this is the most female thing I have ever heard lmao

>>12704143
lol it so is.

>>12704143
It's not wrong though. Categories are not 'found in nature', they are simply tools we use to be able to function properly and be happy. Objectively, every thing is individual and falls under no category but to actually look at things this way is to lose all ability to function properly.

>>12703986
I know a guy who huge and strong, a construction worker, actually, and he had a girlfriend who would regularly beat the fuck out of him over the smallest shit. She was tiny, too. He's the friendliest, most caring person you'll ever meet, and...well, it turns out she was cheating on him with his best friend, who was engaged. Shit hit the fan, the best friend broke off his engagement and married the abuser, and now the big guy's an alcoholic. It's sucks that it seems like you can't talk about things like that without being labeled some sort of MRA misogynist.

>>12704175
I had a college course with a girl really well read on feminist theory that pretty much changed my mind. Honestly I used to look down on a lot of it for no reason but talking to her pretty much changed my outlook. She was very open to debate and offered a lot of takes that I hadn't really considered. Of course like any academic field there are batshit crazy people, but as a philosophical and sociological field I find it pretty interesting. Anyway I think a big misconception is that feminism is a war against men. Honestly I find most feminists that genuinely know the theory to be incredibly empathic and open.

>>12703643
>patriarchal gender roles forced men into those riskier jobs
>patriarchy makes men more likely get into shit like construction and other dangerous and difficult menial jobs, the fact that women are weaker and disinterested in them is completely irrelevant
>patriarchy is also literally dangerous for men's lives
fucking LOL you retarded goy, you're no less of a sociopath and sophist than fascists

>>12703757
feminism is about the liberation of women from the patriarchy thus achieving equality. i don't know why you expect feminists to take on men's issues like they your mommy or something. If those issues are such a big deal then men need to organize themselves just like women have done to solve theirs.
>Or maybe because female lives are all around more valuable than men's and that's an ugly truth feminists prefer to obviate.
yeah that is the other side of the coin of patriarchal gender roles. feminists are already against that.
>And you just leave it at that, cool; no further measures are required.
the measure seems pretty fucking clear, organize and get it done.
>suicide
the issue is rooted on gender roles and feminism looks to abolish them, it seems to me like they are doing something

>>12704434
try and disprove my points you fucking retard
wait, you can't

>>12704435
women cant do fucking anything except whine for men to give them stuff and protect them

>>12703144

Everything you need to know about contemporary feminism is embodied in the following quote by postmodern philosopher Luce Irigaray:

>Is E=Mc2 a sexed equation? Perhaps it is. Let us make the hypothesis that it is insofar as it privileges the speed of light over other speeds that are vitally necessary to us. What seems to me to indicate the possible sexed nature of the equation is not directly its uses by nuclear weapons, rather it is having privileged that which goes faster.

>>12703144
You hate feminism for the same reason that Jews hated National Socialism in the Third Reich. It's entirely justified.

>>12704495
Oof. Letting women publish was a mistake.

>>12704495
Imagine being this self-absorbed. Imagine not being able to comprehend anything but your genitals.

>>12704404
Oh, I agree. Good feminism is good. Unfortunately, as is often noted, the crazies seem much more vocal than the reasonable majority. They're the zealots.
The guy I was talking about isn't the only one I know who was fucked over, by the way. The other guy I know fought an uphill custody battle for years against his neglectful stoner ex wife, The kid wanted to be with his dad and it was fucking him up psychologically; he got expelled from school, and at that point his mother was like "fuck it; you deal with him" and forfeited the kid to his father. He should have gotten full custody from the start.

>>12703144
Feminism really doesn't have much intellectual clout.

I am immediately suspicious of any ideology that has one explanation for every problem.

>>12704446
I already showed the ridiculous contradictions caused by one of your points.

>>12703144
Go back to browsing /v/ and watching Peterson you gaylord

>>12704570
It has zero clout. All the assumptions that feminism rests on are false and obviously so.

I think your Instincts about feminism are correct. Like a young man that first realizes his whole life his family and community lied to him about god and the institution of the church, you’ve realized the farce of feminism and how negatively it effects your life. Being an angry young atheist or agnostic is its own trope.considering the evolution of the progressive stack and intersectionality it’s only natural for the hyper intelligent and intuitive types of people to resent stupidity where we find it. It’s nice that you’re self aware enough to question yourself so vigorously and I imagine it has a lot to do with the pain that comes from social ostracism if you don’t go along with it all. Atleast some women are atheists, all of the eligible women now are feminists. Try not to be so angry. In my experience the more I learned about feminism the more absurd I viewed it. Start at the beginning with the temperance movement if you want to learn more.

>>12703461
Bell Hooks is such trash. She said Beyoncé was an American terrorist. You can’t be serious.

>>12703643
Imagine believing that a man is a garbage collector or a plumber because he just couldn’t get over the fact that other people might see him as less manly. Feminists can’t keep getting away with these weak thesi and remain unchallenged. The truth is in economics which make the feminists of today very uncomfortable because most of them ( and most people generally ) don’t know much about how money works. There aren’t a lot of studies connecting social behaviors and class, career opportunities, and money that look good for intersectionality.

>>12704627
you didn't show anything. literally no argument whatsoever

>>12704810
>he just couldn’t get over the fact that other people might see him as less manly.
this is not what i said, it's all much more subtle and subconscious than what are saying lmao

>>12704835
it's an unsubstantiated mess of an idea

In reality men work shit and dangerous jobs because they will be homeless otherwise, unlike women who are just given stuff by all of society

>>12704563
I keep hearing this terminology of “good feminism”. What is that exactly? Is that how most of the people that talk about it aren’t very invested in the ideology itself? They hear something like “equality is a positive good in the world” why wouldn’t someone want that? It’s directly analogous to Christianity or any other wide reaching ideology adopted by the public. Most people are good, they want to help their fellow man. But these supposed “good femisnts” aren’t the ones publishing in the field, they aren’t the ones that sit on college boards or work with interest groups. The people writing the history of femisnt thought are all radicals. There aren’t feminists publishing works about how other feminists should have more charitable interpretations of American culture ( read:men ). They’re knee deep in third and fourth wave feminism, they run In those circles and most of them are academics of some kind. The few femisnts from the past that have conflicting views with the infighting femmes of today are ostracized immediately.

>>12703144
can we get some fuckin book recs in here?

tell me again why
>da patriarchy
has more basis than
>da joos
as trannies love to exclaim

>>12704835
Fair enough. Maybe you can say what you mean because you decided to take part in the thread. I’m listening so why don’t you explain what you mean bevwuse I’ve heard this viewpoint countless times with no real analysis to back it up, I’d actually love to hear what you mean.

>>12704838
His idea is wrong but your incel tier women have it better than men response is just as stupid. Being a construction worker pays a shitload of money for physical labour, men dont give a fuck about risk and the basedboys that do go work in IT or web development.

The real reason you don't have a job is you sit around jerking off and playing video games instead of being productive.

>>12704872
That’s why there’s no gender pay gap.

>>12704829
you seem to have brain problems so I'll repeat and rephrase

saying that
>>patriarchal gender roles forced men into those riskier jobs
implies that
>>patriarchy makes men more likely to get into shit like construction and other dangerous and difficult menial jobs, while the fact that women are weaker and disinterested in them is completely irrelevant to this general tendency
and that
>>patriarchy (which is supposedly a tool of the male domination) is also literally dangerous for men's lives

>>12704835
I’d be careful about listing “subconscious bias” as your reasoning here. Firstly the Harvard study on this was debunked and its being hotly debated in science right now. But even if this is true it’s a result of something innate and unchanging. The implications of this are a huge blow to femisnts, as in there are male and female brains, peoples socialization is fixed, and thus renders social constructionists useless.

>>12704903
And de facto safer for women. Don’t forget that.

Pro tip: it is

>>12704872
Women work less than men, live longer, spend more money even though they earn less, have more government health services, spend less time in jail for the same crime, kill themselves less, are homeless less, die on the job less, have more scholarships, have quotas that allow them ahead of equally qualified men, are always the legal victim of domestic abuse under the Duluth model, get custody of children more, are a net tax negative to men's positive, don't have to sign up for the draft, have all reproductive rights

Men...have more money because they work more and are better at jobs. Money which they dont even spend more of.

>>12704435
>men need to organize themselves for these issues
They have. These are called MRA’s and femisnts loath them, but they’re a human rights group. Their emphasis is on child custody and marriage court. Yet they’re vilified for caring about their kids. I think the vast majority of them are kind hearted men with real issues. They address suicide and male depression. They can’t even meet in public.

Pretty crazy how it only takes like two dudes ITT to destroy feminism in like six or seven exchanges. OP are you still here? Reading technical journals from feminists is kind of bland if you ask me. If you want to learn about women I’d suggest reading female fiction like The Bell Jar it anything by Joan Didion. I don’t think you’ll necessarily like what you learn as there’s a lot of narcissism in female works. I’d also recommend the Canterbury Tales.

>>12703461
Yeah I feel like Paglia is pretty good for a dude like OP.

>>12704944
What is your point? What systems would you introduce to bring the man up? Feels like I'm reading the same retarded garbage from the people you complain about, just with an incel twist.

>>12704891
Gender pay gap is a brainlet statistic that provides nothing of value.

>>12705006
My point is that women don't have it worse than men, that's a massive inversion of reality.

I dont give a shit about 'bringing men up'

>>12705006
Why is the onus on him? He’s only responding to femisnts assertions and claims. Are you seriously saying he needs to figure out the entirety of societies problems? That’s a fools errand that only a feminist would be pompous enough to attemp. However I’m more inclined to listen to someone’s perspective on these issues who’s analysis is much deeper than a concept like “patriarchy”.

>>12705021
Agreed.

>>12705022
Yeah I thought so, astounding lack of self awareness rofl

>>12705035
All I'm doing is asking a question to better understand his position, relax retard.
>analysis is much deeper
>"waaa life is tuffer for men :("

>>12705088
I listed a shitload of ways in which life is easier for women.

You can respond to that by saying some in which men have it easier, or you can look like an idiot

>>12705088
Wow what an in depth and thoughtful response. How could Donald Trump have won in a climate like this when there are people like you who clearly lay out succinct and cutting edge arguments like this one.

>>12703386
>what are those inequalities and how should feminists addres them?
Draft / conscription should be mandatory for women OR they should give birth to more taxpayers.

>>12705106
https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/02/160-examples-of-male-privilege/
Here you go, 160 reasons. Much more than your 20 or so right? Damn looks like you lost this "list of reasons" game :(

And before you respond with some tripe about how your reasons are better, try have a think about what the author of that list might say.

>>12704835
I find it hilarious how feminist arguments are largely based on the "subtle and subconscious" subjective experiences of men, as dictated by women and feminine men. Bitch, who gave you the authority to define my subjective experience as a man? By this logic I'm perfectly within my rights to assert that the psychology of women is inherently submissive and thus why feminists frequently use advocate for nanny statism: they all have need to be taken of.

>>12705134
Garbage in garbage out friend

>>12705164
>You’re less likely to be interrupted when you speak
Oh yes totally comparable to the draft or 95% of workplace deaths. Supposing it's even fucking true, how do you get reliable statistics on something like that?

you fucking imbecile

>>12705164
in fact Im going to copy paste a bunch of this because of how ludicrously fucking stupid it is

>>12705164
Only 160? The complaints of feminists are endless, and men suffer hearing all of them; and thus men suffer the most.

>>12705164
Sourced from everyday feminism? Is that a joke? You realize the entire publication is an op-ed/editorial project right? And even then they’re so bad at it that they begged for money from their readership to stay viable last year. I hate when people call everything and everyone a troll to dismiss them but I think you might be one. “Learn To Code” was literally created for these types of publications it’s so ubiquitous.

>>12705164
1. You can dominate conversations without being judged. Women are perceived as “too talkative” even when they’re speaking less, with one study showing that women need to make up 60-80% of a group to have equal time in a conversation.

2. You’re less likely to be interrupted when you speak – studies of men and women showed that both interrupted women more than men.

3. You’re not automatically assumed to not know what you’re talking about – or subjected to mansplaining.

4. Common vocabulary favors your gender as the default, with language like “mankind” and “foreman,” and dictionary definitions of words created by men.

5. You’re subject to less scrutiny for the ways you speak – when people criticize “vocal fry,” for example, they’re more likely to point out when women who do it, and ignore men’s vocal fry.

6. You’re not expected to swear less, apologize more, or other supposedly “lady-like” behaviors that reflect stereotypes of your gender being submissive.

7. You’re not expected to step aside if someone of another gender is walking in your path.

8. Social norms allow you to take up more physical space.

9. Perceptions of how much your gender is represented skew in your favor. When a group is comprised of 17% women, men think it’s 50-50, and at 33%, men believe women are the majority.

10. You’re less likely to have strangers expect you to smile – it’s so common for women that it’s sparked a widely praised art project called “Stop Telling Women to Smile.”


This is literally all pathetic non-problems which don't even have any data backing them

>>12705174
Yes, it’s all so tiring. The reason I hate feminism isn’t because I hate women, it’s because they’re the single biggest supporters of radicalization in the United States. I don’t want to live in a world of Stalinist communists and neo-white supremacy but I think if it keeps getting pushed things can only get worse. How did people get so fuckin stupid?

>>12705190
Still waiting on these supposed “studies”, if they aren’t peer reviewed pew studies I swear to fuck I’m gonna rape a feminist.

>>12705190
It sounds like the writer is simply a mouthy moron and is projecting her experience of people reacting negatively to her conversation onto the entirety of her gender.

>>12705217
Really makes you think.

>>12705190
>Social norms allow you to take up more physical space
Because maybe men are bigger and thus take up more space?

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>>12705175
Man these include responses feel almost automated at this point. I even gave you guys a hint :( oh well

>>12705249
instead of expecting us to trawl through an endless pile of shit, you could post your own list of advantages comparable to those I isted for women

You wont do this because youre an idiot and incapable of having a discussion

>>12705249
It’s kind of refreshing that the only person defending feminism is a troll. It’s no surprise that it only takes more than one person to question feminists before they scatter like roaches. They are after all the same people that repeat the last things they heard on TV.

>>12705256
>post your own list
I did
>comparable
by whose standard? yours? I don't think that list could possibly exist lmao

>>12705288
That's not your list and the vast majority of it is bullshit

You could start by finding something comparable to men having the draft, or the Duluth model. ie. government legislation favoring men

Maybe some part of you knows there is no such list to be made, idk maybe youre just a retard

>>12703643
>attempt to deconstruct masculinity
>continue to sexually select for masculinity
What did women mean by this

>>12705273
>Passive aggressive response labelling opposition as a troll
Damn it's hard to keep track, which side am I talking to: feminists or incels

>>12705301
>vast majority is bullshit
Can I use this same appeal on your list?

>>12705321
No you cannot, because my list was stuff like suicide rates and homelessness, while the one you posted started off with being interrupted

>>12705338
Right my bad. Just quickly though, why were your reasons more valid than mine? I wanna make sure I don't make the same mistake again :)

>>12705312
Aren’t they one and the same? Have you ever seen a feminist on a treadmill?

>>12705175
I just remembered my first (and for now still the only) group project at uni, and thought how I should have interrupted the girls in the group more often, because they talked mostly about irrelevant shit, gossip, etc. instead of the project.

>>12703144
Feminists are lackeys for authoritarians. All reasonable claims to mistreatment were acknowledged and addressed generations ago.

>>12705353
>I know ill pretend im retarded
You dont need to pretend

>>12705392
There it is hahaha

>>12703767

>>12703643
>Andrea Dworkin
Giant retard, don't read this garbage
>Simone de Beauvoir
That's a good recommendation

>>12703144
That irrationality is based on a deeper rationality. Women are physically weaker and demonstrably less successful in most fields due to sexually dimorphic adaptations in humans, to raise a woman to the status of man without the accompanying capabilities and responsibilities endowed of man is irreconcilable with that ancient wisdom which has guided us throughout the course of humanity itself. If woman is equal to man, she must compete in his games... she can't match him in these games, so to the feminist, the liberal, the matter must be forced. This is the stream of feminism which is naturally detested, the one which requires women to become men without even the basic morphology to do so.
"feminism strips woman of her natural dignity and makes of her an inferior man"

>>127>>12704945
>4944
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>>12705407
fuck every one of you for your cancerous ass shit posts. OP asked for some god damn book recommendations. please fuck back to /r9k/ you pathetic incels.

>>12705606
>Virgin shaming
Now this is patriarchy.

>>12705617
the problem is that adolescent boys are at their peak desire for sex when sex is relatively hard to attain. The vast majority of bottom of the barrel boys will eventually find sex by their early twenties if they just try to live a good life and do whatever makes them happy. Instead, some become extremely resentful and hateful towards women, paradoxically eliminating their chances of ever getting laid.

>>12703144
all you'll ever need to understand feminism are femoid logic threads on /b/

>>12704856
This is unironically a great comparison. Both concepts see a lot of following with little widely credible sources to back up the numbers, yet one is seen as an immutable truth while the other is seen as racist conjecture. They are equally absurd of concepts, each with enough truth somewhere deep in the infected bowels of the topics

>>12705708
it doesn't happen from merely not getting laid

>>12705708
Wow Darwin tell me more about your deep cut social analysis. HOOOOO BOY

put me in the screenshot. What a shitfest

>>12704968
Two dudes Ina 4channel thread have completely destroyed feminism folks, you heard it here first. What a time to be alive.

>>12705606
Man that's a lot of (You)s, time to cash in

>>12703643
>seething roast

>>12703909
If thats what the patriarchy is, I want more patriarchy. Women and children are inherently more fragile than men, especially in a hostage situation. Moreover, theyre more valuable. A child has a long life to live, and a woman has the potential to create more life.
Could you even imagine negotiating a hostage situation and not prioritizing them?
>please release 50% of your hostages. maybe some kids and women too but not all of them, we'd like some guys too, old ones if you have them. Just tell the kids you kept them back because they were naughty or something. We'll send you pizzas.

>>12705606
$0.05 has been deposited into your account

>>12706694
Behold, evidence that gendered sentences exist.

>>12706694
>folks
We get it you miss Obama. Get over it.

>>12706733
actually adult men are more valuable than children because they are already formed into self-sufficient individuals which takes lot of time and is not always successful

>>12706801
reality disagrees

I feel like feminism is really the weak point of the left, there's just very little there worth taking seriously.

>>12706810
No shit

>>12706801
>child
Someone with unlimited potential
>grown man
Someone that has already exhausted his potential

>>12706858
I think the implication of “value” this poster was talking about were in terms of contributing to society. Men create wealth and inflate social programs, contribute to innovation, and are the ones that build society. What you’re arguing is a simple use of semantics. This is what many writers mean when they discuss the limits of language. If your idea of value is measured in potential or perhaps innocence than yes children are valuable. In the most practical sense grown men are quite literally the most valuable asset in society. Perhaps that’s the point he’s making since the larger context of this conversation is men juxtaposed to women.

>>12703144
Feminism as a topic on the Internet is a game of cats and dogs. Normally you'd be a bit of a tease to the other sex and life would flow naturally, with following apologies, disagreements and angry sex. On the Internet it's just barking and hissing - or a completely artificial hugbox - because you can't meet the other people.

>>12706886
All of these points run contrary to feminism then.

>>12705606
nice argument

Sex and Character

>>12706694
Pretty much anybody can do it if they're not censored

today i have classes with a bitch of professor who is a feminist, i fucking hate her, muh oppresion, muh sexism, fucking disgusting the victim mentality they have

>>12707068
my "argument" is that I want some book recommendations on a literature board. the fucking state of /lit/

>>12708241
>make thread about patently retarded ideology
>express assmad when people point out it's retarded
It's one way to live I guess

>>12707097
thank you for actually providing a suggestion. the fact he killed himself at 23 seems to reinforce >>12705708 tho

>>12708253
not OP but good try buddy!

>>12706925
If you think it’s like this online you’re out of touch. Have you talked to a woman under 30 recently?

>>12704173
Because we compel ourselves to organize ideas into categories does not mean that happiness is our only reason for doing it. Order is distinct from emotion. It is not merely that it’s pleasing to group things, but that these things have internal consistence - that they are right.

incels are all womanposters in disguise

>>12708287
>If you think it’s like this online you’re out of touch.
Resentful incel vs evil SJW is the online cats and dogs fight, stage: feminism.
>Have you talked to a woman under 30 recently?
Plenty of times. They are nice to be around every now and then but tend to be quite boring. Unless they are into magic they don't even seem to have their own opinions.

>>12703317
Men wemen whats du diffferanche fella. whatsche difference!

Literally an ub3r retard who doesnt know eugenics are right around the corner already putting a solid piece of interhumanness under the stress of obsolence.

non binary identity systems are the solid state of the future.

>>12703876
This person believes in liberal choice as something non inclusive.
No he does not, but he knows not of it. I cant decide. I see no point in his argument and all i see is someone trying to be an edgelord i dont even know why this person deliberately tries to be @conservative@ which in this sense is deducing that contrary dogmas birth meaning, which in the context of your post they absolutely do not, not without help at least. . .

its a true ism you dont need to respond. youre an idiot. I can read from your post that youre living at the welfare of others. as with most other people too posting from the high brow of their inferiority. . .

I would suck my own dick. Because its a big one. Does that make me a binary unicycle? i dont know.

Is the earth a disc? Did you actually ever read through a whole book? Did you ever entertain more than x thoughts at once? Did the two things then suddenly snap together?

>>12703144
I'd actually recommend following @emrazz on Twitter, a lot of her critiques are on point.
https://twitter.com/emrazz

>>12708637
this person is like a caricature pol would make of a feminist

>>12703144
Here is a redpill about feminism that you won't find in any book because it is beyond radioactive:

Mathematically "average" IQ is a farce,
IQ is a measure that correlates with general intelligence.
However, nowhere is it said that it correlates with it linearly.

Ask yourself: Is someone with an IQ of 160 twice as smart as someone with an IQ of 80?
And what even is twice as smart?

But that is what we are assuming when we are calculating "average" intelligence.
We assume linearity.

If a person who has an IQ of 160 is 1000 times as smart as a person with an IQ of 80, then the average IQ of those two people would no longer be 120, it would be around 150.
And that is key.

Women have "the same average IQ but a higher variance", have you heard the claim?
Well, this is assuming that IQ can be linearly averaged. But it isn't true.

If IQ is exponential, AND IT IS.
Then men have a much much much higher average IQ than women.

>>12708564
What position exactly are you defending?

Please elaborate your ofc deliberately weak metaphor and pose it into a discourse that sheds light on the meaning of your chosen path of discourse.

Is it a defense of liberalism? Is it a belitteling by words? Is it a very abstract contrature of trusting and false flagging as a byproduct of a dreading conflict and emotional despair?. Is it a critique of freud?

>>12704173
>thinks "categories" was the glaring defect in the statement being critiqued

>>12708670
Nice.
I love how you create a circled argument by stating that theres inherent social justice in IQ.
That is why social justice and what exactly cant correlate?
If you ask anyone if they wanna be governed over their head what will the answer be?

No need to retard complex organisation into a stupid imago and a "complex" model of self righteousnesss to make yourself rigid. It doesnt make more sense because it is a disposition. hence sense end yourself.

Everybody who talked to anyone knows that theres no analogous structure in pure intellegence. If you dont feel it its fine. But why govern it?

>>12708698
m8 this post is barely comprehensible

>>12708698
This is just math.
There is no circled argument here, I have only generalized the formula for averages.

>>12708713
>>12708713
governing should not be constructivist, that sj is marx intern should be the elevating conclusion. via constructivist doctrine what youve said even if true is obsolete qua irrationality. whay bother youre a moron sperglord.

>>12708751
are you having some kind of mental breakdown

>>12708721
And how exactly does it apply to any kind of relativism? Maybe even of high order?
Why dont you study some language games or something other retarded.

>>12708784
I have a degree in Math.
You can't even talk in coherent sentences, kill yourself.

>>12708799
But youre also a woman. Is my conclusion right?

>>12708833
No.

>>12703144

Nonfiction:
The Second Sex
The Feminine Mystique
The Female Eunuch
Ain't I a Woman by bell hooks

Fiction:
Oreo by Fran Ross
The Vegetarian by Han Kang
The Bell Jar by Silvia Plath

>>12708848
Good recs

>>12708671
>What position exactly are you defending?
Staying out of useless fights others started group.

>>12708858
Thanks!

>>12708848
OP here; thanks a lot for the recommendations; I've been meaning to read The Bell Jar for a while now, and having it endorsed once more makes me even more interested in it.

>>12708848
>The Bell Jar by Silvia Plath
Just read this book. Pretty good, and gave a lot of insight into women
Definitely recommend

>>12708945
I saw this book being recommended last week, and I read it in a couple days. It's only 200 pages long, and it's a good book

>>12708634
I can't tell if this guy is genuinely retarded or if this is just some 200iq pasta.

>>12703435
So, its a bad thing to try and want to learn more?

>>12709047
Fantastic. I've been on the lookout for "blue literature" after reading No Longer Human; reading about psychotic and depressed people is something I've been craving lately.

>>12708305
Nobody said it was the only thing. Usefulness + happiness, which can go hand in hand

gender accelerationism advocates stopping the logic of reproduction, but then claims ownership of the future, but if there's no reproduction there's only present, you can't have the cake and eat it too. gnon will eat you if you try

>>12708261
I don't think Weininger killed himself cause he was an Incel. I think Weininger was gay and he killed himself cause he was a self hating Jew

>>12705606
S E E T H I N G

>>12708894
logical. Stay safe. Dont misuse language so bluntly anymore tho.

>>12703144
Start reading all of it chronologically, best answer to every question.

>>12708670
If you actually understand this, then it's completely insane.