/lit/ - Literature

>>12556295
Oooh boy. I thought my creative writing class was bad. On my first day we analyzed an advertisement where a woman appears to be sexually aroused by chewing gum but at least he made us write what was going on in an attempt to teach us how to show more than tell. Sometimes I think we need to leave this world behind.

>>12556295
Most of the writing in my creative writing class happened outside the classroom.

We bought an anthology of great short stories at the beginning of the semester, and we would read one story for each class. We would have to write a response assignment, where we would write the first two pages of our own fiction reflecting some facet of the story we read for that day, sometimes we had freedom over what part we chose to imitate or reflect on, and sometimes the professor would have something specific, like “write a story with no dialogue,” etc. after turning in our response writing at the beginning of the class, we would take the rest of the time to analyze the story we read for class.

Eventually we picked two story beginnings that we felt were our strongest and those were our big projects for the semester.

I felt it was a good system.

>>12556351
That's basically what my Harry Potter teacher did, giving us homework that responded to HP, only instead of reflecting on facets, he just ranted about worldbuilding and magic systems and how we had to build a good one to avoid future plot holes. Surface level stuff, a recipe to write commercial shallow works.

>>12556326
I get the point being conveyed in "show don't tell", but don't people realize it's the same damn thing on paper?

>>12556295
>literally PAYING for shit you can do for free at home
this continues to baffle me. Unless you're paying to learn a skill it's impossible to practice at home (chemistry, volcanology, archaelogy, etc) or absolutely requires a state certificate [permission slip] to do (welding, electrical work, etc) why the fuck would you EVER pay to be taught something?

>>12556295
>Undergrad English Classes

Oof, been there before. Why do they make the requisite classes so dogshit?

>>12556377
Hella ironic considering all the inconsistencies in HP

>>12556295
>short story class
>finally we get to workshop my story
>Iranian student starts an argument about the Revolution
>doesn't shut up for the entire class
>teacher is too chicken to tell her to take it to /pol/

mfw

>>12558686
... It's not ironic, that was the teacher's entire point.

>>12556351
One of my tutors had us buy anthologies as well. Who did you read? For me, it was Ballard, Melville and Joyce, the others I can't recall

The fact is you can't learn to write on your own. Input from other people is vital in all arts, being "unique" and "having something to say" as a writer just mean that you write meandering self-pandering fetishistic and unintelligible garbage.
Meandering, because you probably think a big word count is a good thing, and force yourself to write as much as you can every day, when you could safely cut that word count in half and only gain quality and artistic merit. One of the reason for your word count is that self-pandering, and because you have nobody to tell you that you suck, you think every idea and word you write is the greatest ever and can't possibly be discarded. In reality you should discard most. Another thing you can't reliably judge is if your writing conveys all that you had in mind, if you are leaving out stuff that you think is obvious or not. Finally, you probably haven't rewritten your work even once, and you are winging structure and pacing, while it's one of those things that you can only really see at the very end. Also you haven't been exposed to any other amateur writers as you're not an editor, and can't really see the difference between what's amateur and what's professional, what mistakes every amateur makes and what usually works for professionals.
Art isn't something that you make by locking yourself in your room and following your autistic vision. It's a craft first, that once you master, you can do whatever you want.

>>12558686
>>12558686
>>12558686
logically consistent magic systems are just science fiction

>>12559050
Ironic coming from a faggot like you who can't stop listening to himself.

>>12559050
Literally noone from the great took creative writing classes.
Except Carver.
And he was shit. His editor did most of the work

>>12559602
>DFW didn't take classes

heh

>>12559675
>implying he's one of the great
The other one is maybe McCarthy.

>>12557604
Writing is more complicated than any of those things you listed. So, yeah, it's pretty important to receive feedback and advice.

>>12556295
Would’ve left and immediately dropped the class.

>>12557604

You sound retarded.

>>12559742
He watched Good Will Hunting and thinks he can do everything through the sheer power of his impressions intelligence.

>>12559602
>nobody took writing classes when they didn't exist
imagine that. however, many great authors studied language or literature.
now many people who do creative writing courses go on to be professional writers. example, kazuo ishiguro

>>12559699
It's not like there aren't thousands of people on the internet who would be willing to critique your writing for free, for fun. Maybe if you had some friends you wouldn't need to pay some asshole at a community college who doesn't give a shit about you.

>>12559742
Not an argument.

>>12559758
>It's not like there aren't thousands of people on the internet who would be willing to critique your writing for free, for fun
And they're mostly underread American idiots.
I don't have to pay anyone since I indeed do know people I can discuss these things with. (Though I can't do that at home, as you suggested.) But if someone (like a typical /lit/izen) is not very well connected with like-minded people a paid writing class could be very useful.

>>12559675
did he though?

>>12559808
>underread American idiots.
R E N T F R E E

>>12559826
He was in a creative writing program during his masters

>>12559050
>>being "unique" and "having something to say" as a writer just mean that you write meandering self-pandering fetishistic and unintelligible garbage.
You think this because you unironically have nothing to say bro.

>>12558982
The anthologies we bought were mostly modern, I think we picked up some of the “Best American Short Stories” books and the “O. Henry Prize” books, and then my professor would sometimes share PDFs of a few classics like Hemingway and Chekhov. I definitely improved a ton but I kinda wish I could take the class again because when I look over my work from it i cringe hard, I think I’d do a better job on the second go, you don’t realize how many endless mistakes and cliches you can fall into until you really start writing in earnest.

>>12559602
Flannery O’Connor

Thats what you get for going to some shitty state school

>high school and below basically ban you from reading or reporting on harry potter
>fully embraced in college

Wew

>>12556295
back in high school I was the only student taking creative writing, my teacher and I called it "bro time." we'd procrastinate and tell stories and discuss random shit, almost makes me miss high school.

>>12561078
>1 on 1 free lessons
>spend it fucking around

this makes me angery

>expects eng lit to be challenging and or insightful when it's a dead-end career for idiots

>>12556377
>he just ranted about worldbuilding and magic systems and how we had to build a good one to avoid future plot holes.
As if this is true. Any plot hole can be stepped over later with 'magic'.

>>12561567
First off, the reason why my teacher was wrong was that plot holes don't matter at all to the core of the story and its themes, so worrying about it is childish, unless your story has nothing deeper beyond the level of plot. Secondly, I'm not sure why you talk of a hypothetical case of "any future plot holes" -- the point was this actually happened with Harry Potter, whose world doesn't make any sense. And no, Rowling has failed to solve everything by saying "magic."

>he didn't read Longius

>>12559050
>shit writers write for themselves
>good writers write for ME

>>12561590
I read Lajos Egri, is that better?

>>12559697
>no true Scotsman

>>12561587
Magical causation or magical deus ex machina. I haven't read any Harry Potter. All fantasy worlds have layers of magical or fantastical phenomena that can be progressively revealed (invented) as needed to serve the plot.

>>12561078
Probably grooming you.

>>12561622
Not sure what makes you think that's desirable for a good novel. We're not discussing what you can do, but what you should do.

>>12556295
Bet you go to a state school.

>>12561599
It's very short and the last third is about figures in Greek that you can skip, read it and see.

>>12556295

Write Anne Frank pregnancy erotica

>>12561591
shit writers write for themselves, good writers write for mankind
then idiotic pseuds think that they were writing for themselves

>>12561632
How else are going to do a fantasy novel, start with an Aristotelian treatise about the world listing what is and is not possible, where the magic starts and stops, where normal causation and physics drop and take back the reins? It has to be revealed through the plot.

>>12561698
You really are a moron, aren't you? The discussion is about the WRITER knowing the rules beforehand, not the reader. Of course things are revealed at their own pace.

>>12561652
Unrelated, but this has potential as a meme. Just replace Churchill with the person of choice.

>>12561706
Because it's functionally the same. The author makes it up ad hoc to serve the plot, as the reader discovers the world as it serves the plot. There is no need for a world outside of plot or character service, and any additional world building needed for the text can be added as another layer as the author unfolds the story during the writing process.

>>12562031
Except when you create a contradiction, as it HAPPENED. You're discussing hypotheticals, I'm discussing what actually happened.

>>12556295
My first creative writing class was at a community college where it was mostly a goof off fun class elective, but it was comfy because I liked the teacher.

Once I went to four year, my next creative writing class was a real class. The professor was really stubborn about "you have to write literary fiction, not genre fiction." Which is hilarious because apparently she's a published YA author. Still, the "rules" she taught for literary fiction were actually pretty helpful and really applied to any fiction. I wrote SF/F stories in her class anyway and even got her to like a couple of them.

And then I had another teacher at the four year who was another "anything goes" kind of professor in terms of class structure, but he was another "you have to write real stories from your personal experience" guy.

Also OP, at my university, there are certain creative writing professors who specialize in SF/F and others who specialize in more literary fiction. Even though I'm an SF/F fag I took classes from the literary professors because of time scheduling, you might want to ask your advisor about different teacher specialties to suit your tastes.

>>12562154
>Even though I'm an SF/F fag
Stopped reading there

Creative writing should just be glorified public speaking class. You have a prompt, you got a day or two to write it, then you spend a day sharing it to the class. Anything else is pseud bullshit that panders to retards who don't want to write creatively in a creative writing class.

>>12557604
sunk cost, nobody here is going to give you a real answer. fact of the matter is they're stupid and need help. which is funny considering writing is something you're born good at, you either can or can't. you can become a better writer but if you're not a good writer you'll never be one no matter how much you improve. but they don't know that, or they do and wish to deny it, which is why they go to creative writing class.

>>12559675
way to prove his point dipshit

>>12556669
It's not though. Unless you mean pen and paper. In which case to an extent it is.