/lit/ - Literature

>Finnegan's Wake

>>12553118
>homophilia
What? What did you do?

These are papers I've read and that I endorse reading; I especially advise you to with "Homophily in Social Networks".
https://mega.nz/#!7zAxzaZT!EQWf8amoLh0r6k60mCUDChhNJEUedrxRozwnPVc9OAw

These are papers that I've gathered, but I haven't read them yet. Some might interest you.
https://mega.nz/#!rrR1TYIT!nVH69Ps_KQGQWv1j7zffhhY8UPchIQrLzZEjHnPGlfw

These are papers that might explain you why homophilia works.
https://mega.nz/#!OuBF0SIb!BgnB0WkR8kZo5u7HO2Brmhr5TliB3QTlo3It4fNo_7I

>>12553138
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophily

I argued that the US would go to shit if it annexed Mexico - the topic was American imperialism - because it would lead to a lack of social cohesion since most people would just segregate within their own ethnic group.

>>12553118
>Being in a debate club ever
>Implying people don't already know where to find fashy literature if they're looking for it
>Implying you have some kind of special insight into the meme ideology zeitgeist for edgy 20-something males on 4chan
>Participating in this mind-rotting kulturkampf moment

Fuck off OP

>>12553178
Ah, I see what you mean now. So what was their counter-argument? Or did they just straight up kick you out because you were, in their eyes, a nazi for saying so?

>>12553230
>kultur
Madame La Duchesse de Guermantes? What an honour to meet you.

>>12553230
>>Being in a debate club ever
Meaning?

>>Implying people don't already know where to find fashy literature if they're looking for it
I don't believe they do. I didn't it. If you know, I would love you to recommend me literature in why people ethnically segregate themselves.

>>Implying you have some kind of special insight into the meme ideology zeitgeist for edgy 20-something males on 4chan
Where did I claim that?

>Participating in this mind-rotting kulturkampf moment
Meaning?

>>12553254
>Ah, I see what you mean now. So what was their counter-argument? Or did they just straight up kick you out because you were, in their eyes, a nazi for saying so?
There was not counter-argument. I was called a nazi and a big part of the room started to imply I was.

I have no idea what you people find appealing in political debate clubs, maybe it's just me tired of the racebaiting and naziposters in 4chan after all these years, but I just can't get behind the idea of unironically gathering irl to discuss your political ideology, its a complete waste of time, at least join a lit club or whatever your hobby is.

>>12553331
It allows you to proof test ideas or your interpretations with people that might very well disagree with you therefore enabling you to have a less solipsistic mindset.

>>12553359
Thats what books, peer reviewed papers and news are for.
Political debates are nothing but a rhetoric contest.

>>12553331
>Political
>debate

There is no such thing. Politics is violence. Behind every political action is a gun. If you're taking guns out(by taking out I mean readying to use them) there is no reason to debate.

>>12553388
I intensively disagree with you. When you read a book you hard understand the proper depth of what you're reading; it is only when you have to implement what you read - either by explaining it and counter-arguing criticisms et cetera - do you understand how shallow your study is and little your actually comprehend. Now, I'll agree with you that there other way to test your knowledge: tests, writing a paper, conversations...but debates, to me, are the most efficient regarding the time you spend and the amount of output you get.

>>12553388
I intensively disagree with you. When you read a book you hardly understand the proper depth of what you're reading; it is only when you have to implement what you read - either by explaining it and counter-arguing criticisms et cetera - do you understand how shallow your study is and little your actually comprehend. Now, I'll agree with you that there other way to test your knowledge: tests, writing a paper, conversations...but debates, to me, are the most efficient regarding the time you spend and the amount of output you get.

>>12553118
I’d advise against that. It sounds like you were just kicked out because you offered an unpopular argument for a controversial subject. Just stay out of debate clubs, they don’t actually care about offering up new ideas or solutions.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8IIm2an8QkI

>>12553479
But anon, the ability to call facts and arguments to mind and argue them extemporaneously isn't the same as possessing a nuanced, internally consistent worldview. Granted, there may be a certain amount of overlap but the skills required to develop a convincing argument by rapidly improvising within the structure of a debate are not identical to those involved in the construction of a text.

Just because one is quicker on one's feet and able to call up such and such a point and relate it logically into an argument better than an opponent does not mean rhat one is the more profound. It's a completely different modality of expression which rewards characteristics unrelated to whatever is at issue.

>>12553559
>But anon, the ability to call facts and arguments to mind and argue them extemporaneously isn't the same as possessing a nuanced, internally consistent worldview. Granted, there may be a certain amount of overlap but the skills required to develop a convincing argument by rapidly improvising within the structure of a debate are not identical to those involved in the construction of a text.
I agree with you.

>Just because one is quicker on one's feet and able to call up such and such a point and relate it logically into an argument better than an opponent does not mean rhat one is the more profound. It's a completely different modality of expression which rewards characteristics unrelated to whatever is at issue.
I also agree with you.

Nonetheless; that's not the point of our exchange. I'm telling that its far more efficient and not that it is the best way.

>>12553559
>But anon, the ability to call facts and arguments to mind and argue them extemporaneously isn't the same as possessing a nuanced, internally consistent worldview. Granted, there may be a certain amount of overlap but the skills required to develop a convincing argument by rapidly improvising within the structure of a debate are not identical to those involved in the construction of a text. Just because one is quicker on one's feet and able to call up such and such a point and relate it logically into an argument better than an opponent does not mean rhat one is the more profound. It's a completely different modality of expression which rewards characteristics unrelated to whatever is at issue.
I agree with everything you just said.

Nonetheless; that's not the point of our exchange. I'm telling that its far more efficient and not that it is the best way.

>>12553178
wait, that's literally what happens.

>>12553506
Well Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson are fucking idiot so it's understandable why he would loose.

>>12553178
>I argued that the US would go to shit if it annexed Mexico
I'm sure in your mind you presented a lucid and well argued case, but are you absolutely sure you didn't just do a rant about how Mexicans are destroying the USA?

>>12553797
No. I didn't make that claim. Furthest I've went was to say something like "...the USA would implode by means of a a possible race/civil war between different factions represented by the idea of supremacy of X's or Y's ethnicity.

>>12553841
Well there's your problem. you claimed a group would go to war over an idea of supremacy, and guess which group historically has done that the most.
also i'm guessing you are a white male so they just put 2 and 2 together and assumed you are a nazi. But seeing as how in the OP you aren't exactly opposed to the idea of nazism can you really say they are wrong?
Regardless, you could have gone about it from a different way and claimed that cultures such as mexicans and even african americans would rather stick to their own community and used the vilification of gentrification as an example. An economic benefit to the community is seen as bad due to the preconceived idea that they are trying to take away their identity.

>>12553841
>possible race/civil war
Yeah, you're gonna wanna dial back the race war stuff. It makes you come across as deranged outside 4chan

>>12553506
>HOW TO DESTROY OPPONENTS WITH FACTS LOGIC AND AUCTIONEER SPEED SLANG
So this is the power of the Moderns.

>>12553896
>which group historically has done that the most.
Why are you assuming it's white people? Are you saying that this doesn't happen in other places?

>But seeing as how in the OP you aren't exactly opposed to the idea of nazism can you really say they are wrong?
It doesn't matter if I oppose it or not; I'm going to be lumped with them no matter what.

>Regardless, you could have gone about it from a different way and claimed that cultures such as mexicans and even african americans would rather stick to their own community and used the vilification of gentrification as an example. An economic benefit to the community is seen as bad due to the preconceived idea that they are trying to take away their identity.
I could, but I didn't and I won't because I prefer rigor over politically correct notions of how homophily wrks.

>>12553933
I wish Ben Shapiro weren't so handsome. Jesus Christ. He's the perfect man. I just want him to stare into my eyes for the rest of my life.

What's with the desperate attempts to attack op's character itt?

>>12553966
White supremacy is the most popular example anon, it's not like you said that the Hutu would fight the tutsi again.

>>12553928
I provided proper examples of how it happens in African countries when multiple ethnic groups fight for supremacy in a determinate territory. How is appealing to actual date and certain state of affairs deranged?

>>12553991
Did you use the actual phrase 'race war'?

>>12553977
I bet he washes a good penis.

>>12553977
Wait till you meet his sister

>>12553987
Who's arguing for white supremacy? I implied it could go any way: Black supremacy, Hispanic supremacy, White Supremacy. I'm not advocating for any type of supremacy; I'm telling that segregation would be an effect and that segregation would lead to a dysfunctional country which could engage in a race/civil war.

>>12554003
I used the expression "race/civil war".

>>12554024
>used the expression "race/civil war".
Okay, the moment you said that everyone in the room immediately went 'WTF, this man is a racist weirdo'. Socialising can be complicated sometimes.

>>12554024
Yes, i know what you are saying and i agree that if you just invite more people that they will flock together towards their own communities as they feel comfortable there, but when you claim that a group will go to war over a believed supremacy over other groups the very first example will be of white supremacy. That's just ho it is.
Anyway, your point of "There will be a war" is very bad to begin with. I'ts almost fear mongering in a way. you say you rather use rigor rather than political correct example but a race/ civil war is a very extreme example to use in a debate. When you mention war things will get touchy.

>>12554053
I'm not taking advice from someone that uses GIFs from Tumblr.

>It's an OP outs himself as a race obsessed autist in public episode

>>12554067
>'m not taking advice from someone that uses GIFs from Tumblr
Yes, because that is against the social etiquette of this site. Real life is sort of like an image board, but instead of avoiding tumblr gifs and reddit spacing you have to avoid using phrases like 'race war' in polite conversation

>>12554064
I'll concede that the last premise of my statement might be too aggressive, but that doesn't make it any less true, nor does it make it a bad example.

>>12554078
>It's an Anon outs himself as a retard because he doesn't understand that Mexicans or Americans aren't races - but actually nationalities - or that homophily isn't just about race episode

>>12554099
>>It's an Anon outs himself as a retard because he doesn't understand that Mexicans or Americans aren't races - but actually nationalities - or that homophily isn't just about race episode
you're the one who acted like an incoherent retard in debate club, calm down

>>12554093
No. It's because you are probably juvenile and immature. If I were to partake in this website's customs I would just call you a "r*edditor" and mock you in some sort of way. There's indeed a decorum to have in certain context: I agree; but let's confuse decorum or etiquette with rigor in an academic environment. If you want throw out the window transparency I'm totally against that: I'm not into the idea of having to mask my opinions to appeal to other's convictions.

>>12554114
Settle down, buddy. I was just messing with you. There's no need to get personal. :)

>>12554093
No. It's because you are probably juvenile and immature. If I were to partake in this website's customs I would just call you a "r*edditor" and mock you in some sort of way. There's indeed a decorum to have in a certain context: I agree; but let's not confuse decorum or etiquette with rigor in an academic environment. If you want throw out the window transparency I'm totally against that: I'm not into the idea of having to mask my opinions to appeal to other's convictions.

>>12554099
War is most definitely a bad example, you are trying to use fear rather than a rational problem.It's similar to how people think we are going to have a civil war now over a 4 year president, it's outrages. you have to pick your word very carefully in debate.

>>12554144
>War is a bad example because it is a bad example.
Okay.

>You are trying to use fear rather than a rational problem.
You'll have back to that claim up. I'm not trying to use fear - no that I have problem with that since reason related to our biology.

>>12553791
But do you really believe that they are white supremacists? Because that is factually untrue, regardless on whether you agree with them or not. Plus, the other side unquestionably lost but won with the biased judge.

>>12554138
>let's not confuse decorum or etiquette with rigor in an academic environment
Dude, one of the things you notice about an academic environment is people don't go into debates and unburden themselves of their autistic racial fantasies. If your story is true, and I'm not entirely sure it is, you have no idea how to comport yourself academically or socially. To everyone else in the room you are 'that race war guy' and they've probably all bonded over mocking you and are quoting the midget's lines from In Bruges in your voice

>>12554053
What the fuck are you talking about? Any country will have problems if the race relations are bad.

>>12554170
Wait? why would you claim it has to do with our biology. Homophily mostly pertains to culture. saying it has a biological reasoning is suspicious
Anyway as for the use of War as an outcome of group identity, it creates an atmosphere of "we are in danger, and we can die if this happens". these are techniques of argument rather than logical persuasion. It's (quite falsely) creating a possible threat to a person's life. It's similar to how the right will make up claims of ethnic people "out breeding" white people in order to instill fear in them.

>>12554187
>autistic racial fantasies
What autistic racial fantasies? You have a thing to make things up or to use very aberrant language. In what did I make a normative claim?

>you have no idea how to comport yourself academically or socially.
Elaborate.

>To everyone else in the room you are 'that race war guy' and they've probably all bonded over mocking you and are quoting the midget's lines from In Bruges in your voice
How is that relevant to the conversation?

I'm starting to see that you have a tendency to straw man and to avoid answering to the full extent of what the other side purports.

>>12553178
if you focused on linguistics you would have done fine, you could have pointed to examples like Quebec/French in Canada. you probably implied it had to do with race which fucked you. linguistics is the only argument because southern California is already culturally Mexican

>>12554239
And large parts of Texas. We've already got mixed ethnic populations and de facto segregation all over the country.

The strange thing about Mexico being annexed would only be partially racial. I imagine Mexico would not be divided into 20 states each with a fair share of electoral power in the US government. The population backing the current system would suddenly have this whole other disempowered and very large population to contend with all of whom speak another language.

>>12554206
>Wait? why would you claim it has to do with our biology. Homophily mostly pertains to culture. saying it has a biological reasoning is suspicious
Our exchange ends here because I've acknowledge you to try to gaslight me. I'll explain why:

What said was the following:

"[...]You'll have back to that claim up. I'm not trying to use fear - no that I have problem with that since reason related to our biology. [...]"

and to this you stated the following

"[...]Wait? why would you claim it has to do with our biology. Homophily mostly pertains to culture. saying it has a biological reasoning is suspicious[...]"

In the context of fear versus reason I stated that reason is related to our biology to mean that the way we use criteria to value or normative something is because of how we feel or, if you prefer, how we respond to it - id est, human reason presupposes human being. Plus, your claim that homophily mostly pertains to culture is false, for example, the Savannah principle in evolutionary psychology explains why. I could go in greater detail why Homophily isn't mostly culture, but you don't care about it because you're just dishonest.

>>12554239
It has to do the ethnicity because if you actually read anything about baseline homophily you will understand that ethnicity is the strongest link between people as many of the papers I've upload suggest: we're superficial beings.

[...]Homophily in race and ethnicity creates the strongest divides in our personal environments, with age, religion, education, occupation, and gender following in roughly that order. [...]

[...]Race and ethnicity are clearly the biggest divide in social networks today in the United States, and they play a major part in structuring the networks in other ethnically diverse societies as well. [...]

[...]In a national probability sample, only 8% of adults with networks of size two or more mention having a person of another race with whom they “discuss important matters” less than one seventh the heterogeneity that we would observe if people chose randomly from that population (Marsden 1987). People also are much more likely to report that their confidants are connected to one another if these confidants are same race (Louch 2000).

You can find and read more about this statements in "BIRDS OF A FEATHER: Homophily in Social Networks Miller McPherson, Lynn Smith-Lovin, and James M Cook".

>>12554239
[I do agree I could appeal to culture-in-itself but that wouldn't reach the crux of the situation; every state, city, district et cetera have their own culture]

>>12554219
The purpose of a college debate club is to meet new people, make new friends and have fun. It's not a forum for proselytising some inevitable ethnic conflict.
You seem to have catastrophically misjudged that reality, which is why I'm saying you're autistic and don't know how to comport yourself in social situations.

What are the most lit debates?

>>12554534
>The purpose of a college debate club is to meet new people, make new friends and have fun. It's not a forum for proselytising some inevitable ethnic conflict.
How does that relate to my situation? Where did I mention it was a college debate club? And who are you to define the purpose of a college debate club? The people I knew that partook in my university's debate club weren't there to make friends or to meet new people. I'm going to start counting how many times you have engaged in straw man fallacies.

>You seem to have catastrophically misjudged that reality, which is why I'm saying you're autistic and don't know how to comport yourself in social situations.
That's a big claim; please do elaborate how a one time event allows that generalization.

>>12553123
Haha he posted it again!

>>12553991
>How is appealing to actual date and certain state of affairs deranged?
Have you never talked to a normalfag before?

>>12553896
>guess which group historically has done that the most.
citation needed

Jesus you're so worthless repulsive yet so flippant and smug

>>12554114
Shut it woman, men are discussing ideas

>>12554206
>why would you claim it has to do with our biology.
yeah, why would more biologically similar organisms tend to congregate. wtf bro u a nazi or somethin?

>>12553118
Your shitty grammar and idiotic opinions have led me to believe that you're an absolute fucking pseud.

>>12553118
Your mistake was thinking of Mexico as a monolithic territory. When in fact, the North hates the South, the Center hates everyone, etc. Mexico is a huge and living country, not a single cell. Mexico is already divided.

1/2

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24913947
Ethnic diversity, trust, and the mediating role of positive and negative interethnic contact: a priming experiment.

>"Ethnic diversity is associated with lower trust for both natives and immigrants."
>"For both, the cognitive salience of ethno-cultural diversity causally reduces trust."

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/juaf.12015
Ethnic diversity and its impact on community social cohesion and neighborly exchange

>"Our findings indicate that social cohesion and neighborly exchange are attenuated in ethnically diverse suburbs"

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1465-7287.2010.00215.x
ETHNIC DIVERSITY AND TRUST

>"I find a negative relationship between ethnic polarization and trust and a U‐shaped relationship between ethnic fractionalization and trust."

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0190272515612403
Effects of Heterogeneity and Homophily on Cooperation

>"The results show that heterogeneity hampers between-group cooperation at the dyadic level. In addition, endogenous sorting mitigates this negative effect of heterogeneity on cooperation."

https://academic.oup.com/esr/article-abstract/21/4/311/556895
Predicting Cross-National Levels of Social Trust: Global Pattern or Nordic Exceptionalism?

>"Cause and effect relations are impossible to specify exactly but ethnic homogeneity and Protestant traditions seem to have a direct impact on trust, and an indirect one through their consequences for good government, wealth and income equality."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/300799700_The_Geography_of_Ethnic_Violence
The Geography of Ethnic Violence

>"Our analysis supports the hypothesis that violence between groups can be inhibited by both physical and political boundaries."

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0095660
Good Fences: The Importance of Setting Boundaries for Peaceful Coexistence

>"Our analysis shows that peace does not depend on integrated coexistence, but rather on well defined topographical and political boundaries separating groups, allowing for partial autonomy within a single country."

https://academic.oup.com/esr/article/32/1/54/2404332
Does Ethnic Diversity Have a Negative Effect on Attitudes towards the Community? A Longitudinal Analysis of the Causal Claims within the Ethnic Diversity and Social Cohesion Debate

>"Studies demonstrate a negative association between community ethnic diversity and indicators of social cohesion (especially attitudes towards neighbours and the community), suggesting diversity causes a decline in social cohesion."

>>12557644

2/2

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-9477.2012.00289.x
Trust in a Time of Increasing Diversity: On the Relationship between Ethnic Heterogeneity and Social Trust in Denmark from 1979 until Today

>"The results suggest that social trust is negatively affected by ethnic diversity."

https://academic.oup.com/sf/article-abstract/93/3/1211/2332107?redirectedFrom=fulltext
Ethnic Diversity, Economic and Cultural Contexts, and Social Trust: Cross-Sectional and Longitudinal Evidence from European Regions, 2002–2010

>"The results show that across European regions, different aspects of immigration-related diversity are negatively related to social trust. In longitudinal perspective, an increase in immigration is related to a decrease in social trust."

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12802663
Political Scientist: Does Diversity Really Work?

>"A study conducted by Harvard political scientist Robert Putnam suggests that diversity hurts civic life and that differences can actually translate into distrust. The political scientist and author explains his findings on the flip-side of cultural diversity."

>"The more diverse the group around us, ethnically, in our neighborhood, the less we trust anybody, including people who look like us. Whites trust whites less. Blacks trust blacks less, in more diverse settings."

http://archive.is/xFWbh
The downside of diversity

>"Harvard political scientist Robert Putnam -- famous for "Bowling Alone," his 2000 book on declining civic engagement -- has found that the greater the diversity in a community, the fewer people vote and the less they volunteer, the less they give to charity and work on community projects. In the most diverse communities, neighbors trust one another about half as much as they do in the most homogenous settings. The study, the largest ever on civic engagement in America, found that virtually all measures of civic health are lower in more diverse settings."
>" "The extent of the effect is shocking," says Scott Page, a University of Michigan political scientist."

>>12557640
And class and racial divisions already exist. Gladly we have very few niggers and most live in some lost beach towns. I wish niggers didn't exist.

>>12553178

Just avoid this shit and keep your head down OP.

I made a similar argument to yours in regards to the negative effects of immigration and my peers almost did the same thing before looking at me and realizing that I was a spic and to call me a racist against my own race would be a tad bit absurd. (Not that I couldn't but it's a bold game which they didn't have the gall to commit to).

It may be difficult not to argue with people but there's nothing to gain and everything to lose.

>>12554626
>; please do elaborate how a one time event allows that generalization.
You got kicked out didn't you? Pretty clear evidence you got the tone completely wrong and made a social faux pas. You have to be borderline autistic to think this race stuff is acceptable conversation in society

>>12558340

That's the problem. You can talk about how much you hate white people openly, in fact it's even encouraged.
I had to call out a lecturer's remark because they said our local town had no culture because it was majority white.
That is the kind of disgusting thing you can say openly about race.
So OP sounds more than fair.

>>12558360
>You can talk about how much you hate white people openly, in fact it's even encouraged.
imagine being this delusional

>>12558373

Where the fuck have you been? Are you arguing from under a rock?

>>12558373
What? People do this in every university I've been, the only trope more common than ironically hating wypypo is the "just warning you guys, i use a lot of dirty language :^)" professor

>>12558373
https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/09/18/can-white-people-experience-racism

And there's a ton more events like it you delusional fucking left piece of shit

>>12558387
>>12558392
>>12558400
Too easy, go for a walk and calm down friendos

>>12553178
You're 100% correct whatever the implications of that may be.
I live in a place proud for being "multicultural" and "diverse" and it fucking sucks.
I'm one of about 5 whites in my building and everyone sticks to their own kind around here. Chinese form massive social circles and then ostracise everyone else, Indians do mostly the same but are a bit friendlier, and so on for every single ethnic group.
Except whites.
That would be racist.

>>12553896
>guess which group has done that the most
Probably the Asians actually. Chinese history is more or less a series of genocides.

>>12558360
>You can talk about how much you hate white people openly, in fact it's even encouraged.
But still irrelevant to OPs complaint that he got kicked out of debate club. He should have known that any race stuff not against white people isn't socially acceptable. Its like complaining your date didn't go well when you spent the whole time being a misogynist

>>12558524
I agree with the rest but this is probably the worst analogy I've read this week desu

>>12553118
Pic related should be mandatory reading for anyone attempting to persuade people with "facts and logic" or whatever the meme is.

Also, there are very few places left where you can debate freely without being banned for your controversial beliefs. This site can work and some actual philosophy forums can also work. Reddit doesn't work, for many reasons.