/lit/ - Literature

>>12549938
>not eschewing all forms of grammar to faithfully represent the spoken word thus reverting back to oral story telling
This is what will happen in the next major writing movement. You will see writers attempting to give their stories the feel of the spoken word. They eschew grammar slowly but surely. They will start with dialogue. No quotes, no grammar, no periods, no capitals. Dialog will be represented as the word salad it is, as it comes out of the human mouth. The artist will simply represent what happens phonetically with letters.

>>12550020
How, exactly, does punctuation not, if anything, aid in making text more like spoken language?

>>12550041
Literally all you are talking about are fucking pauses. Why do we need five different fucking symbols for a pause? Forget question marks and exclamations points. The comma the period the semi colon the colon all “indicate” pauses. You just need one fucking symbol for that which is best captured by the “...” of Céline. You don’t organize your thoughts or the way you speak based off commas semi colons periods and colons. You simply express yourself, pause for emphasis or to chase a train of thought.

>>12550074
ellipses (it's called an ellipsis, you cretin!) instead of commas? That's a much longer pause than what would be suggested by any of those punctuation marks.

>>12550105
You’re so cocked by rules you can’t see outside them and understand the mutability of symbols.

I like conjunctions instead of commas, more Biblical, that is why McCarthy likes 'em

>>12550145
You just used two of them in a very short sentence, which is improperly constructed as it should be two sentences.

>>12550074
Because, retard, each of those symbols has a different kind of feeling or connotation for whatever that pause is.

An em dash often implies a more instant stop/start or that something between them - like this - demands more of the reader's attention.

Something like ellipsis has more of a longer drawl, or a longer suggested pause.

Semi-colons and colons aren't even exclusively pause related, and each changes the meaning and direction of a sentence. And so on.

What is a book for mastering punctuation?

>>12550198
The Simon and Schuster Handbook. Get it second hand for cheap. There is no reason you need the current edition.

>>12550281
Thanks.

https://b-ok.cc/book/2532189/6a0ca4

>>12549938
>using commas to break up sentences

Crazy poster does that shit all the time and it annoys the hell out of me. His posts are jargony nonsense as they are, I would at least like some proper punctuation to read through his autistic ramblings a bit easier.

>>12550185
>each of those symbols has a different kind of feeling or connotation
This is the important part - how the ideas are separated. The length of pauses is only a secondary consideration.

>>12550299
Yes, that is it. I tend to go directly to a section in question as a reference and then read much of the section for a thorough understanding of the authors's intent in areas surrounding the subject that I have likely failed to question. Do not try to read it straight through, as it will bore you to tears. Use it as you need it and casually peruse it at leisure.

>>12550334
Great, thanks a lot.

>>12549938
I love semicolons

>>12550302
I feel like this is a brilliant character someone is portraying.

>>12550381
How do you use a semicolon? I legitimately do not know.

>>12550387
>https://www.grammarly.com/blog/semicolon/

>>12550387
Semicolons are used when you're not sure whether or not to use a period or a comma.

>>12550423
>Reductive Reasoning: The Post

>>12550384

its girardfag

>not saying everything in verse
>and letting line-breaks serve for all
>punctuation

>>12550387
This is the semicolon hack: use it in place of "that is to say".

>>12550463
That's wrong
You dumbass

>>12550458
Go to bed, Ruby - you're drunk.

>>12550468
Really? Because that is what I have done for 25 years and nobody has ever corrected me.

>>12550446
That's not girardfag. Girardfag uses paragraph breaks a lot more often, and while his posts are esoteric and jump all over the place, that other post is definitely way less structured and schizo.

>>12550384
I feel like it is an idiot trying to be original. In fact, I know it.

>>12550020
>You will see writers attempting to give their stories the feel of the spoken word
>Hasn't read ZNH
>Hasn't been forced to read NYT bestseller Juno Diaz
Oh boy. You ought to read Aurora - that's an example of the masterful writing and narrative that won Diaz yet another Pulitzer.

I just read some Twain tonight. That hack started a paragraph with "And". And fucking what, faggot? If you were not done with your thought, then do not make a paragraph break.

>>12550507
is it you?

>>12550510
>muh "you an't start a paragraph with and, or, but, because, etc."

How's kindergarten treating you? When it comes to fiction prose, you can break 'rules' like that.

>>12550508
>Juno "Fuck syntax, punctuation, grammar, an sheeit it's my style mayne" Diaz
>Tfw the acclaim he receives reinforces this nu-standard of writing and what is considered "talent"
>Tfw retarded ESLfaggots will earn A.S in English degrees (toilet paper) with Honors by emulating him
>It's okay, it's muh style
Just kms myself.

>>12550020
t. Corncob Tortillas Yecarthy

>>12550525
>you can break 'rules' like that
Explain to me the intent of this. Why would one start a new paragraph and then continue the same idea? Unless you have a reasonable explanation then I stand by my previous assessment.

>>12550446
no, it's jon maus

>>12550542
This is why bookburnings will be scheduled. Hopefully, there will be free helicopter rides at the events.

>>12550508
>>12550542
>Live in central NJ, near a number of places mentioned in JD words for most of my life
>Go to college in NJ
>"hip" professors love Juno Diaz and we read a lot of his work
>Not only is it shit, it's also embarrassing to think he lived in places near me at some point.

>>12550562
Simple - any kind of stream of consciousness narrative would have all kinds of stylistic reasons to start with something like "And". I'd even give a pass to most fist person narratives in general, or even third person narratives with heavily featured narrators, in old story book/fairly tale senses.

Pretty much any narrative prose that is emulating speech or thought could do it, stylistically.

>>12550589
>any narrative prose that is emulating speech or thought could do it
Why start a new paragraph if you are not done with the thought?

>>12550041
Stop the recursion, bro.

>>12550615
The author could be trying to convey the characters speech and though process

>>12550704
Are you implying a break in a character's thought and a subsequent, nearly immediate, return to that thought? I could agree with this but I did not see it in the text that I read. Twain pushed too hard. He made a game of it at the reader's expense. The general rules exist for a reason. Violation of them should serve a purpose.