/lit/ - Literature

>>12497823
nuuuh yah dont know now

>>12497823
His works don't cover tranhumansinsmms and thus are effectively useless to modern man.

His works don't cover tranhumansinsmms and thus are effectively useless to modern man.

His works don't cover tranhumansinsmms and thus are effectively useless to modern man

His works don't cover tranhumansinsmms and thus are effectively useless to modern man,

His works dont cover tranhumansinsmms and thus are effectively useless to modern man.

>>12497823

You're right OP, Plato's works and the bible are really all you need

nuuuh yah dont know now

>>12497823
You're right OP, Plato's works and the bible are really all you need

>>12497823
you dont know that unless you read all of them

You're right OP, Plato's works and the bible are really all you need.

>>12497823
you dont know that unless you read all of them

nuuuh yah dont know now!

>>12497823
His works don't cover tranhumansinsmms and thus are effectively useless to modern man.

>>12497823
His works don't cover tranhumansinsmms and thus are effectively useless to modern man

>>12497823
>You're right OP, Plato's works and the bible are really all you need

like bro there are these things who are immaterial and at the same time they shape the existence of things in the material world and they actually exist in another world lol (laugh out loud) dude!

nuuuh yah dont know now

>>12497823
His works don't cover tranhumansinsmms and thus are effectively useless to modern man.

You're right OP, Plato's works and the bible are really all you need.

like bro there are these things who are immaterial and at the same time they shape the existence of things in the material world and they actually exist in another world lol (laugh out loud) dude!

nuuuh yah dont know now!

You're right OP, Plato's works and the bible are really all you need.

>>12497823
>the only *western philosopher worth reading

fixed that for you OP, also his works don't cover transhumansinsmms and thus are effectively useless to modern man

>>12497823
you dont know that unless you read all of them

You're right OP, Plato's works and the bible are really all you need

You're right OP, Plato's works and the bible are really all you need!

His works don't cover tranhumansinsmms and thus are effectively useless to modern man.

nuuuh yah dont know now

like bro there are these things who are immaterial and at the same time they shape the existence of things in the material world and they actually exist in another world lol (laugh out loud) dude!

>>12497823
you dont know that unless you read all of them

>>12497850
>>12497862
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>>12498027
>>12498032
like bro there are these things who are immaterial and at the same time they shape the existence of things in the material world and they actually exist in another world lol (laugh out loud) dude!

nuuuh yah dont know now!

>>12497823
Plato is for plebs. Aristotle is the only Classical Greek philosopher worth reading.

>>12498044
His works does cover tranhumansinsmms and thus are effectively usefull to modern man. Aritootle btfo.

You're right OP, Plato's works and the bible are really all you need!

You're right OP, Plato's works and the bible are really all you need

His works don't cover tranhumansinsmms and thus are effectively useless to modern man.

nuuuh yah dont know now

His works don't cover tranhumansinsmms and thus are effectively useless to modern man

like bro there are these things who are immaterial and at the same time they shape the existence of things in the material world and they actually exist in another world lol (laugh out loud) dude!

you dont know that unless you read all of them

like bro there are these things who are immaterial and at the same time they shape the existence of things in the material world and they actually exist in another world lol (laugh out loud) dude

You're right OP, Plato's works and the bible are really all you need!

Wtf is this thread. Jannies shut it down!

>46 replies
>11 posters
someone is mad

His works don't cover tranhumansinsmms and thus are effectively useless to modern man.

try Buddha and Nagarjuna

nuuuh yah dont know now

>>12497823
you dont know that unless you read all of them

you dont know that unless you read all of them!

you dont know that unless you read all of them..

You're right OP, Plato's works and the bible are really all you need

like bro there are these things who are immaterial and at the same time they shape the existence of things in the material world and they actually exist in another world lol (laugh out loud) dude

You're right OP, Plato's works and the bible are really all you need!

nuuuh yah dont know now

>>12497823

> The light dove, in free flight cutting through the air the resistance of which it feels, could get the idea that it could do even better in airless space. Likewise, Plato abandoned the world of the senses because it posed so many hindrances for the understanding, and dared to go beyond it on the wings of the ideas, in the empty space of pure understanding. He did not notice that he made no headway by his efforts, for he had no resistance, no support, as it were, by which he could stiffen himself, and to which he could apply his powers in order to get his understanding off the ground.

> The charm of expanding one's cognitions is so great that one can be stopped in one's progress only by bumping into a clear contradiction. This, however, one can avoid if one makes his inventions carefully, even though they are not thereby inventions any the less.

Julius Evola’s way better

>>12498969

Kant is practically an Anglo. I bet he can't even read Plato's Parmenides.

we did it reddit

>>12499088

You miss the point. If Kant didn't/couldn't read Plato's Parmenides, what *would have been* Kant's response if he did?

Can you say how Kant's system would react with those ideas of Plato?

EXCELLENT thread

>>12497823
>>12499302
Hahaha well I think that the role of the dichotomy of subject/object (and the unity that follows) isn't appreciated to the appropriate extent in any scholarship. This was really, in a sense, his central theme. To understand the republic, study each of the images mentioned (physician, Shepherd, craftsman, merchant, husbandman, guardian, confectioner, pilot of ship, charioteer, mathematician, wrestler, geometrician, philosopher) by the cast with regard to the relationship between the parties concerned (Shepherd/sheep, doctor/patient, etc), the end/goal of the agent in each scenario, and the knowledge that should be looked to for the purpose of the agent doing its work well.

>>12497823
Plato was Super Gay

>>12499688
Interesting you should say that. It's very possible he was bonezin yung dum boislutz, but unless we are to believe that some more-than-human mother gave birth to a boy and named that infant 'lord of life', then we are to say that Socrates' saga (e.g. forgetting every name, even his own, him being a wet nurse professionally, along with all the other statements said about him that are as allegorical-seeming as the accounts of Mark's gospel) was an allegory. The male-interest expressed in the dialogues has to do, again, with the subject/object relationship, but more specifically, the lover and beloved. He said there is not the same lustful attraction of otherness in male-male relationship, the key here being that there is no longer attraction to 'other' but 'same'. The male beloved is the image of the soul of the self that is transformed throughout the republic and the beloved becomes oneself (in a contemplative sense) when one truly knows oneself. (All of this is my dumb opinion. Feel free to shit on anything)

I disagree

>>12499800
In constructing his philosophy Plato carried forward the philosophic work of Socrates. From the point of view of their respective personalities, this was a strange alliance: Plato the aristocrat, quiet, cold, and reserved, aloof from the democratic scene at Athens, a literary artist as well as a philosopher, using philosophy to serve the ideals of excellence of his social class; and Socrates, middle-class in origin, gregarious, a mixer with all types and classes in the city, short and stocky of build, pudgy and ugly of face (with bulging eyes and broad nostrils); but whose intellectual brilliance and wit were able nonetheless to win the love of any young man of Athens who happened to strike his homosexual fancy.
In the eyes of Athenians there was nothing remarkable about Socrates’s homosexual relationships. Homosexuality was common among the middle and upper classes, with heterosexual marriage being commonly entered into only when a man wished to establish a family. As for Plato, we know only that, unlike Socrates, who was married late in life and had a family of three sons, Plato never married. On the internal evidence of his writing, his sexual feelings seem to have been directed solely to other men.

From Socrates to Sartre
T.Z. Lavine

>>12497823

>>12499680
>>12499800

Ugh.

>>12499856
The guy is talking out his ass. We have three written sources on Socrates, Xenocrates (laughable account), Plato (laughable account), Aristophanes (literally a fucking comedy about a clearly fictional character). Just sayin- scholarship is in the dark ages on Plato

>>12499800
I can't seem to understand the significance of eliminating the lower principle in Plato's mind. Toward the end of the republic the image of the archer is used to discuss the proposition that a thing cannot be one (united) so long as there are multiple motions in different directions within the one thing (one arm pushes the bow forward, one arm pulls the string back, or, Leontias' appetite pushed him to look at the dead bodies while his spirited element pushed him the opposite direction). The solution he reaches is to dispose of the contrary principle. I believe he means, (and this is metaphysically marvellous) in book ten, when he reverts to talking about the imitative poetry, that it is by means of imitative poetry (such as the republic itself) that we are able to discern the world of appearance, which corresponds to the lower principle of the soul, from the true reality. By carving the narrative of the republic into that waxen tablet of the soul, we are carving out a statue in the soul that is the image of the good. The narrative itself is the dialectical process and by familiarizing ourselves with its contents (to the extent that we know what comes before and after every proposition) we no longer use the propositions as first principles, but as stepping stones, a track made by wheels in the road, in the path to the one. It is necessary to commit the narrative to memory because the nature of appearances and the irrational principle must be 'grasped' entirely for the purpose of discerning it from the good principle and extinguishing the bad principle. The text of the republic is the imitative poetry that is exiled from the city but it is a statue that has a center which is pointed-to from every point of the narrative. The idea of the good is this center and when the wax of the soul becomes firm in the form of the logos, the idea of the father is given to the one that accepted the son.

>>12499957
do you agree Plato was gay?

>>12500043
I don't know if he was or wasn't, I don't think any of that has any actual importance. I find it funny when people believe it is important to debate the sexuality of (concept that did not exist, everyone was just fukin) Plato or Socrates when the relative importance of that point compared with the value of Plato's philosophy is just... Like holy shit. A person could choose to take on the upward ascent to the divine or he could delight the appetite of a dude's particular genre of dick tickling. But what I was really trying to do initially was bring the discussion from a point of absolutely zero objective value, to a point of the philosophy that Plato actually considered to be worth knowing.

>>12499982

Like the slave's recollection of the solution to the problem of the square of half the area by means of known mathematical principles (the principles point to a piece of knowledge preexisting in the mind) the propositions of the dialogue point to their center, their object, the idea of the good, so we are able to recollect this piece of knowledge by grasping and knowing the circumference. The recollection of the idea of the good coincides with the destruction of the inferior principle (as though the world of appearance (inferior principle) were the veil of Isis that needs to be torn for the purpose of seeing through to the idea of the good). But what was the experience of this event in Plato's world? Were they actually able to change the face of nature and rid themselves of evil in an actual way? Or was it a filter through which they could understand the ceremonial experience of magic mushrooms or LSD produced in aged wet wheat fields?

>>12500167
He was in love with Dion

>>12500167
but Plato/Socrates said Eros for the teacher is necessary to learn worthily
Allan Bloom loved The Republic and lived it, but he was gay
it’s a gay book

>>12497823
Aristotle is good although not as entertaining.

>>12497823
>be suburban cunt
>no real class other than status endowed by financial amount earned and products bought
>no real culture
>be impressed then obsessed by classics in order to cope
>if it's old it must be great
>read stone and lintel tier philosophers
>argue on the text portion of the infotainment supertoilet
>never actually live out any values ever

>>12500197
Ya, I mean, Allan Bloom has never said anything interesting or innovative about the republic. If the person isn't solely a scholar of the subject, nothing good ever comes of it. And I'm pro gay, I don't know if Plato was gay, I don't know if Socrates existed but Eros, while it has an important role in the ascent of the soul, at the end of the process, Eros is aligned with the principle that is to be gotten rid of and reason is the principle that remains. But I don't think you and I disagree about what you were saying

>>12500263
You understand it a lot better than I do

>>12500263
>I don't know if Plato was gay
the label gay is modern. In Plato's time a man was considered active or passive. Aristotle once seriously wrote about how a small man is still a man, but a small woman is like some kind of animal. The ancients didn't have strong labels and categories for things we get all hung up about.

>>12500177
And what is the role of the decline of constitutions in this destruction of the inferior principle? He calls the tyrant beautiful and compliments tyranny a number of times in books nine and ten. This would only make sense if we were to suppose the decline to tyranny as a good thing, if not in itself then for some other purpose, allegorically speaking. At points it seems as though Plato is saying that the philosopher has to know all the aspects of evil for the purpose of knowing the good in a sense similar to, in the realm of being, a thing is known by what it is not (and every being has an opposite by which it is defined and consequently restricted to the world of being, unable to ascend to the one), negative theology of sorts. But I believe that the overthrow of the inferior principle requires a sort of emulation, within the soul, of this decline of constitutions. Establishing tyranny within the soul might be a good thing. The description of the tyrant is more similar to the philosopher than anyone else, eros is the Lord of both.

>>12500365
and what role does any of this word salad play in your life?

>>12500402
If you point out the points the appear as salad as opposed to the sushi it is, I'll rearrange the points to make sense from your perspective, but I'm really looking for someone that understands something so they can contribute some insight. There used to be people here that read the stuff worth reading, but I haven't posted here in a year, so they might have gotten over this place too. This stuff plays the major role in my life though, to answer your question.

>>12500353
That passage about small women always cracks me up, lol. Man, no matter what size they are, I truly do love women.

>>12500458
The republic is focussed on the three parts of the soul, which correspond to the lower three aspects of the four portions of reality in the divided line. The Timaeus, which occurs immediately after the republic chronologically, opens with a question of 'oh, the three of you are here, where is the fourth' (the fourth person that was with them during the narration of the republic)? Is this fourth person allegorically referring to the lowest portion of reality, the appetitive part of the soul, that was destroyed at the end of the republic? Have you ever compared the structures of the republic and the Timaeus? I mean, at the beginning of the Timaeus, Timaeus says that the city they would create would correspond with the city that they created the day before in the republic, but this would be the ideal city that could not exist in the material realm (hence, the necessity of destroying the inferior principle as a precondition). In both narratives they make three new beginnings, compare the guardians with the twelve lesser gods, the first state (without unnecessary desires coming in from without) and the self contained initial world of the Timaeus, I could go on, but I won't, just compare the two.

>>12497823
Add Plotinus, Augustine, Pseudo-Dionysus, Meister Eckhart, Bonaventure, Duns Scotus, William of Ockham and Jordan Peterson and I'm with you there.

>>12500649
I guess a crucial element involves the trichotomy set up in book ten of the republic, the one that uses (the horseman that actually uses the bit and reigns on the horse, also the maker of the idea of the bed itself), the maker of the object (the fashioner that makes the bit and the reigns and the maker of the actual bed), and the maker of appearances (the painter that paints the bit and reigns and paints the bed). Do these correspond to the three components of soul? Or 3 out of the four portions of reality? It is tempting to ally the painter and the appetitive aspect of soul (merchants, Weaver of appearance) with regard to what has been said before, but I'm thinking the painter might be the passionate element for a couple reasons, which would make it reasonable to make the user correspond to the one/good and the maker would be the mind which would work well as the demiurge is the mind and maker. But I could see it either way. Which is it?

>>12500824
No interest in Plato in the only discussion board I've ever found to have an interest in Plato? By the dog of Egypt! We've had access to Plato for half the amount of time we've been studying Shakespeare. The church burned people for studying it until 16th/17th century. Now we are allowed to study these sacred documents upon which all secret societies made their foundations, all of Bush's cabinet was composed of Platonists, not Christians. Christianity is framed on Platonism. All western philosophers are shitty imitations of Plato. LIT, why the fuck aren't you reading this shit? It's wiki leaks, religion edition.

>>12498039
Spamming like this is against the rules.

>>12497895
He actually did. Transhumanism is just the disembodied soul put into an artificial "body". Read Phaedo.

>>12497907
I'd substitute the Bible for the Epic of Gilgamesh, Ovid's Metamorphoses, or Shakespeare's Tragedies.

>>12500649
Please go on

Words just melted off my screen

>>12497823
Read Aristotle instead.
Plat0 leads to the path of the devil.

>>12500649
>>12500824
>>12500935
I just finished Book 3 of the Republic, looking forward to completing my journey and being able to discuss things with you all

>>12497823
I enjoy reading other philosophers therefore they are worth reading. Checkmate.

His modern man don't cover works and thus are effectively useless to tranhumansinsmms.

plato isn't even worth reading

If Eros is required toward Socrates, even if it’s later jettisoned in the ascent to reason, then how is this not a gay book written for gays.
Socrates was no Marisa Tomei.

>>12502097
why?

Here is a teacher I’d have Eros for
Bing! [Eros shoots me with arrow]

>>12497823
no you must also read the niggers he is shitting on

>>12503427
ok