/lit/ - Literature

>>12458094
Consider: would he stop reading?

>>12458094
Don't you want to find out what will happen to you?

fuck OFF

Most of Dostoevsky's novels have bad endings although there's usually a silver lining to them

No there is much more pain for you to feel

>>12458270
>>12458147
haven't gotten around to any of these books yet? What's the reoccurring theme with all of them? is it all edgy nihilism? or teenage angsty misanthropy?

>>12458094
I had the same experience and reading it all showed me how to change.
Finish it.

>>12458147
The thing is, calling yourself Underground Man is the most Underground Man thing you could do

>not realising the underground man is a heroic figure

>>12458147
>>12458270
YIKES

>>12458147
>>12458270
it's fucking true though 95% of the people on this board are probably underground men. again it's not like the underground man is some sort of chad or hero, he's a fucking beta sperg who overthinks shit and sabotages himself

>>12458147
>a disgusting incel cant relate to disgusting incel characters eww! how dare you relate to things!

>>12458094
This translation is terrible.

Is the "Notes From The Underground is literally about autistic manchildren that watch anime all day" the worst interpretation commonly posed on here?

>>12460785
what do you expect? this board has gotten younger over the years and people have even less of an historical understanding of the milieu around the time NfU was written, or the existential angst that was festering underneath the fake confidence of materialism.

>>12458147
No reason that kid can't grow into the Underground Man.

Stoner on the other hand is misleading because in contemporary academia his career is a fantastic success that only the most talented and lucky could hope to match.

>>12458147
You're missing The Stranger.

No, keep reading until you feel a sudden urge to convert to orthodox christianity.

but he is a true alpha male dabbing on normies

>>12460891
He's hardly a success, sure towards the end he is a good teacher but he only wrote one worthless book (both poorly written and rarely read). He was only appointed a full professor as a means to make him retire (though that's not why he did it).

Comparatively, the underground man (if we trust his narration) was also a talented, intelligent person, he just gave up trying after childhood.

>>12460858
Then in your own words you must realize it has aged perfectly for today's age.

>>12461138
Sure, never said it hasn't.

>>12461101
He gets a tenured academic position in the humanities and makes a reasonable amount of money from working in academia. Transpose that to the present day and he'd be in the top few percent, achievement-wise.

>>12460465
>>12460785
I always find it funny when the book gets cited here because compared to some of the anon horror stories the Underground Man is actually pretty normal and well-adjusted. I mean IIRC he has a job and sees other people on a daily basis, whereas I've seen anons on 4chan claiming that they literally have trouble forming words they've been alone in their bedrooms so long.

>>12461248
Yeah but he didn't exactly have instant access to all the internet has to offer now did he?

>>12461227
The underground man was so wealthy that he didn't need to work and could still afford a servant.

>>12461891
Huh, I guess they were both doing pretty damn well in the scheme of things

>>12458147
>heh, OP is such a fucking loser, how dare he sympathize with other losers

>>12459956
Facing one's own inadequacy

>>12461248>>12461667
Very true. I suppose what's impressive in these sorts of works, is how close their understanding was to the problems of modernity; albeit oftentimes underestimating how bad it would be.

Regardless, the idea that I liked from Notes From the Underground was the frustration and anger at the attempts to reduce a man into a fully understood and predictable being. Living in a time where such a thing is increasingly more possible, one wonders how humanity will react to the death of the blank slate presupposition which many facets of our society are built upon.

How would you react if your thoughts and future could be deduced by some algorithm? It's an interesting dilemma.

>>12458094
If you or any other incel proudly identify with the underground man then the book is going straight over your head

>>12464800
>l proudly
how could you possibly have taken the OP to be proud? He's expressing anxiety over how similar his life is to the (obviously) pathetic character

>>12464800
I don't think it's pride. Rather, "Oh fuck, Dostoevsky predicted societal shut-ins like me and is nailing my character to a tee."

>>12461917
Russia then was the equivalent of how RPOS (aka AOC) and other champagne socialists imagine America is today. Super rich aristocracy and endless proles.

>>12464800
Why over our head? I recognize the political and philosophical aspect of the novel and realize that Dostoevsky much intends to poke fun, but does he himself not say that people like the Underground Man do and must exist in society?

>>12464800
>proudly identify with the underground man
>This is fucking destroying me and making me realize that I will probably end up like him

>>12458094
I actually identified a lot with this book.
That's really bad, isn't it?

>>12464986
>late 19th century Russia
>rich

What the fuck am I reading

>>12464800
Some people are so lost they're happy to identify with anything,even the worst person in the world.They,like the Underground man,consumed too much fiction.

>>12458147
Why is Stoner there? I just read the novel and I dont understand why would you categorize him with the others. Williams Stoner was a stoic and didn't harbour bitterness against his "foes" at any point of the book.

>>12467399
I don't know, but certainly not the post you quoted, you inept retard.

>>12458147
add no longer human

>>12467521
Stoner was basically just a big nerd that was too soft to fight the tides of time
He thinks that his own stoicism will save him from a sad life, but it didn't

>>12464800
>proudly identify
back in college when I was basically a useless hunk it was my favorite book, but not because I feel pride in identifying with the protagonist
it's the opposite actually, I felt disgusted that such a sad man is a reflection of myself, but I can't deny that I feel the same way as he does and will probably pull the same stupid stunts he did in his situation, despite rationally knowing that it is a stupid stunt

>>12468209
you talk like him too

I reread it and realized how much it went over my head the first time. I am him and reading it made me realize I must change and I made a conscious effort to do so but the more time passes, the more I doubt it is actually possible.

>At this point there was a revulsion in my
heart too. Then she suddenly rushed to me, threw her arms round me and burst into tears. I, too, could not restrain myself, and sobbed as I never had before.
‘They won’t let me ... I can’t be good!’

That's where I usually break.

I reread it and realized how much it went over my head the first time. I am him and reading it made me realize I must change and I made a conscious effort to do so but the more time passes, the more I doubt it is actually possible.

>At this point there was a revulsion in my heart too. Then she suddenly rushed to me, threw her arms round me and burst into tears. I, too, could not restrain myself, and sobbed as I never had before. ‘They won’t let me ... I can’t be good!’

That's where I usually break.

>>12468200
What the fuck was his wife’s problem? I freely admit I’m a brainlet

>>12469483
she was literally a woman

>>12460780
Which is better?
This is the version I read and enjoyed it. I want to reread it and am open to a new translation

>>12464826
>>12464844
>>12465857

I know how you people work, it gives you satisfaction to relate to a character like this. In a weird, self-deprecating way it just re-enforces your own superiority over normies. Not me though, I've gone up a rung on the ladder :^)

>>12469696
You're projecting because you're so narcissistic that you can't understand the concept of talking about yourself without it being a secret glorification

>>12460858
>materialism
My good bitch are you illiterate or simply retarded?

>>12469696
>>12469707
I'm both of these, how to fix

>>12469707
Welcome to the underground bitch

i couldnt finish that book, what a miserable creature, it was too depressing.

>>12469936
Realize you're not actually special or interesting enough to come even close to a literary character.

>>12469483
mental scars from having been raped by her dad were never allowed to heal

she never developed a healthy view of sexuality

>>12469707 >>12469696 >>12469936 >>12470068 >>12470072 >>12470202
This cyclic self-flagellation from introspecting and finding narcissism leads to more underground-man-type thinking and is completely anti-productive. Which I think was part of the point dosto was trying to make in NfU.

It's a swirling vortex that sucks you in. It's like putting a microphone too close to a speaker, except with your consciousness. Each tiny epsilon of reasoning is coherent, rational and sensible but then the instant you zoom out and look at what these sorts of epiphanies and revelations of self are doing to your life you see them for the incoherent monstrosity of overabstract slop they are. More evil than the evil they claim to detect in the first place.

Here are some "Epiphanies and Revelations of Self":
> I am trying to stop being narcissistic only because as a selfish narcissist, I just want to learn to conceal my narcissism as this is expedient and self-serving.
> Realizing the above point, in and of itself is narcissism, as is this realization, ad infinitum.
> This entire post is written with the underlying idea that I have overcome a struggle which my inferiors have not.
> Relating to underground man, even in self-loathing, is a result of immaturity and grandeur. No better than projecting onto Rick Sanchez
> I am using the word "I" too much in this post as a result of only thinking about myself
> People see in others what they know of themselves. That bad thing I thought about X is actually a bad thing about MYSELF.

----

As a result of indulging in and examining these types of thought I have become completely paralyzed. I am physically slow, can't focus, constantly dizzy, constantly tired, can't get any work done, can't get out of bed, can't do laundry, can't cook for myself (diet is mostly mcchickens), hermitic. A normal day for me involves waking up at 9, writhing around until 12pm trying to fall back asleep, dragging myself out of bed to a Starbucks where I sit mindlessly refreshing my Instagram followers feed scoping my oneitis' likes (she doesn't know my name) until it closes at 10pm, drag myself home and try and form a coherent thought and until around 2 or 3 am when I pass out on the couch. Fuck even writing this is nauseating.

----

Very glad to have come out of being the sort of person in pic related and the above paragraph by IGNORING "self awareness" and NOT ATTEMPTING TO IDENTIFY "crypto-narcissisms" in myself or others. I am still sad and lonely, but I think I have escaped the underground man's plague for now.

The solution for me has been to instead think about things that are POSITIVE (not positive "happy", positive as in "extant."). sometimes its hard because the real world is so repulsive ugly and mundane. Still better than underground man symptoms. Examples of POSITIVE things:
> Working out
> Math
> Projects
> What happened in that TV show episode
> What happened in the book you're reading
> What am I going to do now/today/tomorrow

>>12470705
you have to go back

>>12470705
what the fuck