/lit/ - Literature

Gonna hijack OP's thread and ask is there any fantasy / conworld / genre fiction inspired by Buddhism / Buddhist themes? I love Buddhism but so many people in the West just see it as little more than "meditation" and "the fourth noble truths."

Where are the modern stories of Bodhisattvas tearing down evil Asura tyrants with swords made of prajna?

>>12423539
intro books:
Dhammapada
What the Buddha Taught - Rahula
In the Buddhas Words - Bodhi

next step: Buddhism as philosophy (this will provide an ourview of the major schools so you can decide what you want to read from any of the schools)

Any good books on Saṃsāra and rebirth?

>>12423539
Reading “Lighting the Way” by the Dalai Lama and I only kind of feel like I’m “getting it.” This is my first book on the topic.

>>12423910
>Dhammapada
not really an intro, its more of a 'bible' where you can extract buddhist quotes without needing context. The other 2 texts you mentioned are pretty much the best introductions to buddhism one can find.

>>12423539
DT Suzuki’s Introduction to Zen. Written in the 1930s by a Japanese monk scholar, and fairly short.

MahaPrajnaParamita-Sastra

>>12423539
If you care about Buddhism at all, go meditate under a tree. You should eventually arrive at the same truths Buddha discovered.

Pali Canon OP, Pali Canon
>>12423841
Robert E Howard's, through Theosophy. One of the only good things that school produced desu, reading a lot of his stories it's not only heroic but has a lot of eastern symbolism and meditations that seem ripped directly from Buddhism or even Tantra. Hell, the Kull stories about Mirrors or the Sound of Death is great in describing that.

>trying to learn about buddhism and its relation to vedic thought
>impossible to look up information reliably because all the wikipedia pages are filled with indians writing engrish shit like "Vyasa lived for ten thousand years and Indian philosophy has proved that Westerners are devils."
>will be reading informative page clearly written by someone who studied the topic
>lots of citations
>suddenly "Indian philosophy discovered concept of being thanks to work of suraurhaurhuar. India a best."
>try to find good books on the topic
>they're all published by presses called shit like "Sacred Knowledge Twilight Sparkle Publishing" founded by gurus who moved to california
>come to /lit/
>guenonfag spams every thread to death with the same cult bullshit no matter the topic

does india not WANT me to learn about it

>>12423539
http://www.nippapanca.org/uploads/2/4/5/9/24591864/av_path_press_edition.pdf

>>12423841
Journey to the West is an all time classic. Make sure you get an unabridged edition.

>>12425037
is zen buddhism?

>>12425871
Yes... What?

>>12425621
Guenon is good, and India no want you to learn about it. Why? They are already 1.5 billion. Lots of fake among even their numbers. But life is gruh. Visit personally and learn Balochi? Do

>>12425878
i thought zens didn't believe in buddha and used to bully buddhist monks

>>12425890
...What

>>12425325
It’s almost as if people don’t do this because Siddartha Guatama’s enlightenment was arbitrary and subjective, and people would fail to reach his same conclusions if they tried to without reading Buddhist texts.

>>12425900
Or they don't do this because it almost got Guatama killed and he was like "Shit nigga that was dangerous as fuck, highly not advised".

>>12423841
i gotta say I truly respect Buddhism, it's probably one of the few religions with very little blood committed in its name.

>>12425916
riiiight

>>12425890
Zen lineages generally claim the buddha transmitted zen to one of his disciples by lifting a lotus flower and the disciple smiled. This isn't historically supported, but it shows that zen lineages do support the buddha himself.

Early Zen practitioners did do things like repeat the heart sutra (and many lineages still support this sutra specifically), and other buddhist activities. Some zennists claim not to be buddhists, but what do they care if form is emptiness anyway?

>>12425924
>Buddhism
>very little blood committed in its name.

>>12425924
>it's probably one of the few religions with very little blood committed in its name.
lol, buddhism has been rarely in power, but the times they have been they don't have a great track record

>>12425934
>Some zennists claim not to be buddhists
Only Western Independent McBuddhists.

>>12425952
>>12425934
>>12425890
>>12425878
>>12425871
>>12425037
is there any living lineage of zen? zen californians like to claim that japanese zen is not real zen because the guy who took it there was not properly initiated. but is there any unbroken chain of zen in china, and if there is not, how is it even possible to speak of real zen anymore?

i know for example the shaolin monks are supposed to be zen monks, but californians like to claim they are just pure land buddhists with no real access to zen

>>12425988
>zen californians like to claim that japanese zen is not real zen because the guy who took it there was not properly initiated
Where have you been reading this?

>>12425621
It's not that hard to figure out the basics of how they are related and the chronology of how it all went down, just read any book on it, you come off as sounding helpless.

>>12425037
I'm reading this right now, very interesting so far.
>>12425890
From my understanding zens do believe in Buddha, but most of them are iconoclasts and believe enlightenment is extremely personal and you shouldn't attempt to replicate Gautama's steps like a formula, instead you should look for your own path to it.

>>12423963
No?

I think the confucian and shinto movements that attempted to eradicate buddhism are as interesting as buddhism itself.

>>12425887
G..Gurdjieff?

>>12425890
you can't "believe" in Buddha. he is not some sort of deity. the buddhists (zen included) see him only as a teacher. Siddhartha Gautama was just a man with a really profound view of reality, and Buddhism studies this view

>>12425887
did ya hit da ganja mon

>>12427264
You're wrong. The Buddha performed many miracles and people pray to him very similarly to how Christians pray to Jesus.

>>12425988
>>12426006
It's true, but it's due to the particular Zen practicioners who moved to America. Suzuki and his ilk were Japanese nationalists who supported the imperial government. Other Zen lineages went underground as they were seen as a foreign religion and threat to Japanese supremacy. When these nationalist lineages were de-fanged or dissolved following WW2, the others came back to the fore. Some of the nationalist branch were those who moved to America to prosyletise, like Suzuki, and they claimed they were the only legit Japanese Zen schools and that Zen isn't practiced in Japan anymore.

>>12423539
ACADEMICAL STUDY
A Buddhist Manual of Psychological Ethic Dhammasangani - C.A.F. Rhys Davids 1975.pdf
Buddhism and Jungian Psychology - New Falcon Publications,U.S._ J. Marvin Spiegelman, Mokusen Miyuki, J. M. Speigelman (1985).djvu
Buddhism as Philosophy_ An Introduction - Ashgate Publishing Limited. (Ashgate World Philosophies Series) Mark Siderits (2007).pdf
Buddhism For Dummies - For Dummies. Jonathan Landaw, Stephan Bodian, Gudrun Bühnemann (2011).epub
Japanese Rinzai Zen Buddhism_ Myoshinji, a Living Religion - Numen Book Series. Jorn Borup (2008).pdf
The Positive Psychology of Buddhism and Yoga_ Paths to A Mature Happiness - Psychology Press. Marvin Levine (2000).pdf
Tibetan
Introduction to Tibetan Buddhism, Revised Edition - John Powers 2007.pdf
MODERN WORKS
Alan Watts
Eastern Wisdom. What Is Zen, What Is Tao, An Introduction to Meditation - MJF Books. Alan Watts (2000).djvu
The Book_ On the taboo against knowing who you are - Vintage Books. Alan Watts (1989).epub
The Way of Zen - Alan Watts (1989).djvu
The Wisdom of Insecurity_ A Message for an Age of Anxiety - Vintage. Alan Watts (2011).epub
Inner Engineering_ A Yogi’s Guide to Joy - Spiegel & Grau. Sadhguru (2016).epub
SACRED TEXTS
Buddhist Scriptures - Penguin. Donald Lopez(ed.) 2004.epub
Dhammapada
The Dhammapada. The Sayings of the Buddha - Oxford University Press. (Oxford World’s Classics) John Ross Carter, Mahinda Palihawadana (trans.) (2008).epub
The Three Pure Land Sutras - Numata Center for Buddhist Translation & Research. (Bdk English Tripitaka) Inagaki Hisao (Translator) (2003).pdf
Tibetan
The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying (The Spiritual Classic & International Bestseller) - PerfectBound, HarperCollins Publishers. Sogyal Rinpoche (2003).epub
Zen
Shobogenzo - Japan Publication. Eihei Dogen (1988).pdf
The Zen Teaching of Bodhidharma - North Point Press. Bodhidharma, Red Pine (1987).pdf
The Zen Teaching of Huang Po on the Transmission of Mind - Grove Press. Huang Po (1959).djvu
The Zen Teachings of Master Lin-Chi - Shambhala. (Shambhala dragon editions) Burton Watson (1993).pdf
The Zen Teachings of Rinzai - Shambhala. Irmgard Schloegl, Lin-chi Lu (1976).pdf

>>12428772
>alan watts
ishygddt

>>12428795
Why not?

if you have to ask...

>>12428814
He's white

>>12428795
you're cool

>>12428823
White people should need a license to practice Buddhism.

I didn't know Zen was linked to Buddhism, I don't find important books talking about this.

>>12425621
Look into Theravada Meditation - the Buddhist Transformation of Yoga by Winston L King

>>12425890
They do it ironically.

>>12429085
????????

>>12425325
That's like trying to build a machine without studying Newtonian physics in a world where Newtonian physics already exists.

>>12423910
>What the Buddha Taught - RRahula

Bear in mind that is written by a Theravadist who talks shit about Mahayana for a good portion of the book.

>>12425924
Trendy white kid pop Orientalist pseudo religious hipster detected. The Sri Lankan civil war, Japanese imperialism, the Tibetan caste system, Sohei, and the ongoing pogroms against Muslums in SE Asia have all been justified with Buddhism.

Writings on the compatibility of Buddhism with very basic deism? It seems to be the least dogmatic of the four large world religions, which is naturally attractive to me because historical importance of an ideology implies ontological truth value in some forms of simulationism which I think are somewhat logically coherent.

>>12425621
>"Vyasa lived for ten thousand years and Indian philosophy has proved that Westerners are devils."
where's the lie

>>12429885
No mention of the ancient astronauts that originally brought rocketry to India, the secret knowledge of which was then stolen by abominable anglos.

When will your childish little minds accept that religion isn't real /lit/?

>>12429898
I presume you are a materialist/physicalist then? Answer this question: Do you think the human mind/consciousness can be emulated or created by humans or human technology? It's the question that led me to reject hardcore atheism.

>>12429912
Eventually AI will be indistinguishable. (If we don't drive ourselves to extinction first)

>>12429924
Did you finally learn to use a tripcode you dumb cunt?

>>12429818
>pogroms against Muslums
What's wrong with this?

>>12429740
Isn't sitting under a tree the part where he studies physics?

>>12427264
i've read buddhist scripture and it's filled with them talking about having faith in the buddha, the sangha and the dharma

not sure if faith is the correct word, but you know what i mean

>>12429870
it's hard to tell, but if you want to find something closer to buddhism in christianity research "via negativa" prayer, and books like the cloud of unknowing

>>12427399
>>12427264
you're both right. the buddhism in the west is presented as an apparently agnostic wisdom tradition, but other buddhisms are littered with deities, intermediaries, and magic borrowed from aboriginals or their host nation

>>12430328
>conflating the eastern and western definitions of any of those words
im fucking dying

>>12430375
share your insight

>>12430429
applying the abrahamic definition of "deity", or even "magic" for that matter, to an eastern tradition and using that to assert that buddha is a deity himself is an audacious leap of logic

you look at "buddhism" as if it were just another branch of western thought. it's absurd.

>>12430443
devout lay practitioners in thailand pray to buddha and various syncretic hindu attendants for positive effects, good luck, etc.
to my untrained ear that sounds like a deity, one that bestows magic

>>12423539
If there is No Self, then what part of us survives between one life and another, accruing karma?
I'm seriously curious about this.

>>12430443
I don't understand what point your trying to make, are you even aware the most popular sect prays everyday so when they die they'll be reborn in another plane of existence called a pure land; the abode of a buddha?

>>12430466
there isn't 'no self'. The buddha didn't make such a claim. He just said the self isn't contained in the components of body and mind. The buddha refused to answer what 'self' actually is, only what it isn't.

>>12430466
The Buddhist concept of "self" is essentially the ship of Theseus.

>then what part of us survives between one life and another, accruing karma?
Memories, actions, etc. are all stored.

>>12423539

>>12430161
Nothing

>>12430633
Except what "good things" are is defined differently between these two religions. Christianity is a lot more rigid and, more importantly, arbitrary in what things it labels as sins (which is the part that reeks of bullshit and turns lots of people away).

>>12430970
>Christianity is a lot more rigid and, more importantly, arbitrary in what things it labels as sins
You should actually read some of the Pali canon if you believe this, the Buddha was autistic as fuck in listing "sinful" things, including actors/comedians, dice, ball games, hop-scotch, palm leaves, toys, eating garlic as well as the standard Christian stuff - http://sutrasmantras.info/sutra33f.html..

>>12430443
This guy is one of those guys in college that gets really upset when any White person discusses any non-White historical figures or subjects and pretends to be offended, but doesn't actually have any of his own insight and whose thoughts rarely go beyond "wow, just wow" if that phrase was written with a thesaurus on hand.

>>12430466
atma

>>12430443
>>12430375
t. will come back as a hungry ghost

>>12431573
gets very upset, but only knows the heavily filtered version through california of those traditions, which is basically just liberalism + a bit of ritual for flavor at that point

>>12429870
>It seems to be the least dogmatic of the four large world religions

Haha. It's still a religion.

> is naturally attractive to me because historical importance of an ideology implies ontological truth

"Something is true because the historical tradition behind it says it's true so that must mean it's authentic and true"

You do know the exact same thing can be applied to any religion right?

Western philosophy was a mistake.

>>12430633
karma isn't like that but even if it was here's how it'd work
>do good deeds so your community is improved and others do good deeds do your community is even better
>thanks karma for improving everything (causality)
here's how christcucks work
>pretend to do good deeds so you can get into heaven. others also pretend to do good deeds so they can get into heaven. everybody a hypocritical scum who doesn't actually do good deeds.
>thanks jesus please keep me safe while killing brown children in the middle east

>>12432402
Anything West of the Balkan mountains is only symbolically "Christian", i.e People playing pretend as being Christians.

>>12432402
you are so clueless it's not even funny, the author of the Visuddhimagga, arguably the text that has influenced theravada buddhism the most, literally ends with Buddhaghosa saying he hopes writing this text will earn him enough good karma to be reborn in heaven, abide there until Metteyya (the future Buddha) appears, hear his teaching and then attain enlightenment

>>12432444
you don't understand karma as even if it's carried on you somehow
>you improving yourself and how you're related to the world is equal to some christcuck shit god who is going to give you paradise or send you to hell
do you also think shitting in the toilet is an act of divinity and the toilet god allows you to do it? you're cleansing yourself and thus rewarded similar to having hard work pay off. it's not some random god who may give you something.

even if you want to try technical zen buddhist say if you believe there's karma it's there otherwise it's not. you aren't at the level to begin to understand this but it's true.

>>12432402
What? you can generate good karma doing absolutely nothing useful to your community, like endlessly rotating a prayer wheel.

>>12432497
you have been brainwashed by californians, please read actual buddhist texts

>>12432527
you're a hinduist aren't you? karma isn't what you say it is it's what i see. understand now grasshopper?

>>12428772
>Buddhism and Jungian Psychology
>Alan Watts
I don't know where you copy-pasted this from, but don't go there again.

>>12431589
>atma
This is what I'm finding elsewhere -
"Atman" in early Buddhism appears as "all dhammas are not-Self (an-atta)"

>>12430607
>the ship of Theseus.
You may be referring to the Skandhas "heaps" here. Quote: In the Theravada tradition, suffering arises when one identifies with or clings to the aggregates. This suffering is extinguished by relinquishing attachments to aggregates. The Mahayana tradition asserts that the nature of all aggregates is intrinsically empty of independent existence. end quote.

Who is the "one [who] identifies with" in there is No Self?

>>12434166
>the ship of Theseus.
>You may be referring to the Skandhas "heaps" here.
Alaya vijnana and "stream of consciousness" are mahayana inventions specifically to explain rebirth though

>>12431153
>Do you read the newspaper? Do you watch TV? Do you read fiction? Do you golf? Do you attend movies, sports events, plays, or other entertainments? Do you volunteer your time to organizations for social, political, environmental, charitable, or humane projects? Do you socialize with people who are not involved in the Dharma?
Words of western teacher dedicated to spread naturalized, less superstitious buddhism
https://dharmatreasure.org/practice-in-ones-daily-life/

>>12434480
>Alaya vijnana
I read this. This is pure unmitigated bullshit, an elaborate shell-game contrived to avoid the question: What "I" survives reincarnation to accrue karma? It seems like Buddhist priestcraft calls forth the "self" or "non self" whenever needed, without feeling the need to explain. They have their long-dead magic-man, just like the Christians.

accesstoinsight.org

>>12423539
Read this

>>12434541
but that's just liberalism with buddhist ritual for flavor

>>12432181
aww, i find the concept of hungry ghosts so cute lol

>What Buddhists do/say =/= Dharma

>>12430633
But theres a world of difference, and its at the heart of Buddhist right view.

Karma isn't an omnipotent force or will, it is just 'what happens', and that is more about mind and your tendencies than any materialist view, Buddhism is, at its best, metaphisically reticent, which is why I trust it.

It just says 'here is what happens', and 'heres what to do if you don't like what happens'

So far, from that standpoint, I'm convinced.

>>12436828
Interesting. But it's still metaphysical, right? As in, still a principle which involves a sort of record pertaining to one's deeds and intents, and a soul-sorting system that responds to these?

>>12436910
The thing is, you ARE the record, and your experience is the fruit of your karma.

You, right now, sitting there in front of your computer, have only been brought there because of your karma. On one level, you were brought there because you simply desired to browse 4chan. On another level, you were brought there because you had the free time to do so, rather than having to work / study / cook food / grow crops / fight off bandits / etc. On an even deeper level, you were brought there because it let you be born into a time and place that allowed for computers to exist and the internet to be a thing. And so on.

Once you start to see how it works, it's really not all that "mystical" or otherworldly. It's, at its core, just a very elaborate system of cause-and-effect.

>>12437003
you are confusing karma and dependent origination

>>12437021
Both are intrinsically related though. If you're walking down the street having a jovial old time and suddenly you get struck by a Jeep crushing both your legs leaving you in a wheelchair for the rest of your life, that is still a result of your personal cause-and-effect, operating through dependent origination. It can be very hard to fathom the totality of it, not saying it's easy to grasp, but ultimately, that's how it works.

>>12437065
>Both are intrinsically related though

Yes, but you're conflating conditionality en totale, with karmic processes. Which is more common in mahayana/vajrayana accounts of karma, which you're free to go along with, obviously, but I think its far too obtuse and fundamentally influenced by ancient Hindu views of reincarnation (as opposed to rebirth), i.e: you were born deformed because you were evil in a former life.

Karma is just the plain of conditionality pertaining to mind and ethical agency, not the sum of conditional processes...so getting hit by a car? Sure, conditionality resulted in that happening...but its not all your karma-vipaka, i.e: your fault, we're ultimately not in control of all the conditions playing upon us, just our ethical decisions, and therefore the quality of our mental states, and the iterations of that, as the principle of karma, until liberation.

>>12436910
> a sort of record pertaining to one's deeds and intents
Sort of.

>a soul-sorting system that responds
Every word there would have to be in severe inverted commas, merely as an allegory.

What I meant is that Buddhism does not make metaphysical declarations, it just describes what happens, not 'what is happening behind the scenes', but just empirically 'what happens' in our experience, take the law of karma like this.

>>12436762
quite the opposite, but not in guenonfag's favorite flavor

>>12427264
>Siddhartha Gautama was just a man
look up Trikaya

>>12437540
how is it not just liberalism?

What are some good anti-buddhist literature?

>>12437229
>What I meant is that Buddhism does not make metaphysical declarations
that's arguable, in general it avoid positive declarations but they aren't completely absent
>There is, bhikkhus, a not-born, a not-brought-to-being, a not-made, a not-conditioned. If, bhikkhus, there were no not-born, not-brought-to-being, not-made, not-conditioned, no escape would be discerned from what is born, brought-to-being, made, conditioned. But since there is a not-born, a not-brought-to-being, a not-made, a not-conditioned, therefore an escape is discerned from what is born, brought-to-being, made, conditioned.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/ud/ud.8.03.irel.html

>>12430443
>>12431573
He's right. Abrehamism clouds our understanding of the east, yet we still had a pagan past so it shouldn't be impossible to grasp either. Rune magic is kinda similar to tibetan enchantments and so on.

>>12437843
how is it liberalism?

Long-time /lit/ poster (since around 2011 when we used to have daily Marx and Stirner threads) After reading this thread, I've come to the conclusion that the reason Guenonfag seems to be considered some sort of eternal boogeyman lurking behind every post by /lit/ Buddhists is that before he become popular on /lit/ (he really started to get big around 2014-2016) the only eastern philosophy people posted about in any significant amount was Buddhism. Right around the time Guenon started to get popular people started read and post a lot more about non-Buddhist eastern stuff like Sufism, Hinduism, Tantra, Daoism and so on. This caught many Buddhists off-guard because they were used to monopolizing the conversation (this is why you often see butt-hurt Buddhists try to derail threads when people venture off the plantation by posting about non-acceptable eastern thought). The Buddhists here seem like they assume that anyone who is well-read in eastern thought but isn't Buddhist or has a critique of Buddhism is a Guenonian and it's as though they identity him as the siren who lured /lit/ posters away from their precious Buddhism, hence why they fear him so much and accuse each other of being Guenonfags over minor disagreements (this thread being one of many examples of this occurring)

>>12429776
even more reason to read it then
absolutely based

>>12438345
>types rambling paragraphs of exactly the same distinctive length and style as guenonfag
>guenonfag has a history of samefagging and pretending to be different people
>guenonfag has a long history of crazy conspiracy theories and over-analyzing /lit/ demographics, always alleging that there are "Kantians" out to get him and so on

Hello Guenonfag. Still insane I see.

>>12438417
>>12438345
Also you were mentioned a grand total of twice in the thread and you felt the need to post a wall of text about yourself.

>>12423539
Buddhism is an empty religion

>>12438417
>>12438422
You're just proving my point fren

>>12438444
And that's a good thing.

Any good books on how Buddhism resisted the tyranny of oligarchic Brahmanism?

>>12438488
Brahmins were not oligarchic you dummy, the Kshatriyas exerted more control over actual day-to-day administration and were more wealthy and powerful. Brahmins were often the functional equivalent of a village priest and were higher status than Kshatriyas but had less material wealth/power. Buddhism was most popular in the Indian cities where you had masses of laborers and traders living without much interaction with Brahmins and it was in the rural villages overseen by Brahmins who remained most staunchly Hindu and who most effectively resisted Buddhist proselytism.

Not to mention almost every Buddhist society before modernity was largely the same mass of peasants/farmers ruled by feudal lords more or less equivalent to India. Yeah bro we was egalitarian Buddhists n shit *enslaves the majority of the Tibetian population as serfs*

>>12438524
Like I said, looking for some good books on the subject rather than some random LARPfag on the Internet giving his personal hot opinion in between watching Youtube videos about Hinduism.

>>12439829

If you want to understand the Caste system from the perspective of Hindus themselves try reading some of the Dharma-sastras like the Manu-smriti and Yajnavalkya-smriti etc (although you should read the Upanishads or Gita first because the dharma-satras take those sorts of ideas as a given). Not all of Hindu society was ordered exactly like them throughout history although they were influential and offer a glimpse into traditional Hindu society and traditional rules regarded castes. We don't have any dating from before Buddha but they refer to many older thinkers and the roots of them appear in the Vedas, the Dharma-sastras are sort of an application of Vedic knowledge/culture to ordering society like how the Upanishads represent the summary of their inner spiritual content. The best primary sources for understanding the caste system are the Dharma-sastras.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma%C5%9B%C4%81stra

The reason why I recommend this is that much of modern scholarship takes a progressive quasi-marxist view on the caste system, which focuses almost exclusively on the material inequality that it involves without examining the other aspects like cultural, spiritual and so on, for example in traditional Hindu law codes (including the above texts) the higher up the caste system you are the more severe punishments you face for breaking laws and the more stringent religious obligations are placed upon you, the lower castes may not be supposed to venture near a Brahmin for example but they are free to live their personal lives without following all these stringent ritual and dietary restrictions which a Brahmin might follow. Reading the texts themselves allows you to form your own interpretation without certain ideological influences coloring things. Also the modern and 17-18th century caste system modern scholars often write about differs a lot from the caste of Buddha's day, which we can only really know about from the Hindu texts and the brief mentions they are given in Buddhist texts

>>12440055

So if you want to have the best picture of the Hindu society that Buddhism arose in you'd do well to study the Hindu texts about caste (e.g. Dharma-sastras) and then some scholarly/critical histories of the life of Buddhism and the history of early-Buddhism, this would allow you to piece these two together to imagine how it went and what was the context of the caste-system during Buddha's life. There is not really a lot of writing on how Buddha specifically reacted against the caste system since he does not talk about it a lot, his interaction with it mostly amounted to teaching all castes openly and some occasions where he is recorded as debating and disagreeing with Brahmin priests (and the ideas these people mention in the PC often don't even resemble the Upanishads but are more like a primitive proto-mimansa)

Coomarwswamy also has some very insightful writing on caste which is sympathetic to it but if you want to form anything approximating a nuanced view of caste you would need to take into account perspectives like these as well instead of just combining modern progressive criticism of it along with the Buddhist view on it.

http://www.eng.vedanta.ru/library/coomaraswamy/what_has_India_contributed_to_human_welfare.php

>>12440055
Any good modern scholarship on these subjects by academically vetted experts?

>>12440068
http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com

>>12440068
>>12440081
https://plato.stanford.edu/index.html

>>12437609
>>Siddhartha Gautama was just a man
>look up Trikaya
Buddhism is a form of monotheism. The big problem with monotheism is explaining the existence of evil or suffering. The Hebraic religions have a solution in the form of original sin, in which the child is already guilty, and must be punished when he gets here. The Bu8ddhist solution is karma, wherein the child is also already guilty and must be punished when he gets here.

>>12440068
>>12440081
>>12440092
https://desuarchive.org/his/

>>12440081
>>12440092
>>12440096
Thanks, I'll check out Oxford bibliographies. Still looking for scholarly academic works on the topic though, not some tradboo cult member's apologist ramblings.

>>12440126
you will eventually find what you are looking for if you look for it long enough
look some asian/indian studies curricula and bibliographies, there are several books considered "classics" in the study of these topics, there are also several scholars that are considered the fathers or patriarchs, you just have to dig deep enough
I'm not an expert on indian studies/history, I read about it as a hobby (specifically buddhism)
I always recommend Strong's buddhisms: an introduction because it has a lot of "further reading" notes that point you to full works about what he is summarizing/explaining

>>12440093
>The big problem with monotheism is explaining the existence of evil or suffering.
Why does evil or suffering exist in the universe of the all-perfect god-man? That's easy - blame the victim. In order for a religion to be successful in the long-term, it must create enough guilt to keep 'em coming back to the temple or church, leaving enough alms to support deadbeat clergy that don't want to work for a living.

>>12440126
>not some tradboo cult member's apologist ramblings.

I literally just told you to read the primary Hindu texts that talk about caste and related rules, any scholarly work is just going to be mentioning the same texts, and you'll always be able to form a more in-depth understanding from reading the actual texts instead of some secondhand summary that leaves out a lot of information, how fucking stupid are you?

the absolute state of /lit/ buddhists

>>12440173
Thanks dude, good idea. I'll check some syllabi too.

>>12440252
Thanks for not replying to me with a wall of text about Shankara, cult guy. I'm not a Buddhist, just interested in Buddhists.

>>12440096
>https://desuarchive.org/his/
Wtf? This post is what first showed up >>>5999186

>>12440261
?

>>12440261
Fuck here's another try.
>>>/his/5999186

>>12440276
seems pretty decisive re: miscegenation

>>12440259
>wall of text about Shankara, cult guy
Why do you act like it's unusual or weird to reference Shankara? even western academics often describe him as one of the most influential Hindu thinkers. I don't understand this approach of ignoring him and then denouncing anyone who mentions him, it would be like asking a question about Mahayana and then freaking out when people mention Nagarjuna in their response, do you not see the inherent irrationality there?

>>12440282
That was an f-in' hilarious coincidence.

>>12440295
Shankara is cool and he's an interesting historical figure. I don't know why you think I'm "ignoring" or "denouncing" anyone. I asked for scholarly treatments and you did what you do in every thread, spammed about Shankara and heavily imply that Coomaraswamy and Guenon are the go-to authorities on everything, because you're a member of that traditionalism cult.

For the record I don't have a problem with Coomaraswamy or Guenon either, but that is what cultists do, they constantly push their shit and try to imply it's the best or only shit around. In this case, even when it's not relevant, because I was specifically asking for modern scholarship.

>>12440312
>spammed about Shankara and heavily imply that Coomaraswamy and Guenon are the go-to authorities on everything, because you're a member of that traditionalism cult.
What are you talking about? I didn't mention Shankara or Advaita once in my post about caste and Dharma-sastras, the only connection was Coomaraswamy but he writes about other areas of Hinduism too. You were the one who brought up Shankara not me. Yes, Shankara is often mentioned in threads that talk about Hinduism but that's hardly surprising because he is one of its most well-known classical thinkers, not everyone talks about him only because of Guenon or whatever. Defending caste is not something that only 'Guenonists' do but it plays out every single day in India as a back and forth between traditional communities/figures and leftist/progressive Indians, just read any newspaper from India and you'll see what I mean. Many of the people who post about Vedanta take an active interest in and are happy to also discuss things like Buddhism, tantra, yoga and so on, it's acting in bad faith to get upset and throw accusations only when people mention Shankara.

>>12440378
OK Guenonfag, glad a whole thread is once again dedicated to talking about your mental illness, either way.

The fact that this was your entry into the thread: >>12438345
should have tipped me off not to even reply to you.

>>12440395
>Guenonfag here, do you have any questions for me kid?

>>12423539
More like booty-ism lol

>>12438488
>>12440126

>tfw at age 6 I was taken from my impoverished Tibetian serf parents that I never saw again
>tfw forced into manual labor at the local monastery
>tfw am beaten and raped every day by older monks

At least I wasn't born into a caste though, t-thanks buddha...

>>12425037
>Written in the 1930s by a Japanese monk scholar
Wasn't Suzuki a lay Buddhist?

>>12440924
That thought comes across my mind too sometimes.
Guess I should try calling it enlightenment religion.

>>12440937
>Buddha is some intervening entity like sky daddy

>>12425946
Buddhism was suppressed during the Meiji period in favor of state Shintoism.
The Zen schools were forced to adapt to Japanese militarism or perish.

>>12423841
Lord of Light by Zelazny

I heard Journey to the West is good.

>>12441193
That's not what he implied at all.