/lit/ - Literature

>>12428957
Yes
t.anon with oedipus complex

I love big tiddies and have a fetish for suckling them, but I really don't think this has anything to do with my mother

I think there's a balance of nature and nurture. *Some* childhood impressions dictate how you turn out, some of it is just inborn wiring.
Liking big tiddies because you're breastfed or liking flat because you weren't doesn't seem plausible to me.
I've given a lot of thought as to why I turned out the way I did, and I honestly don't know. It couldn't have been seeing naked statues

>>12428957
Freud's concept of it is outmoded but there's definitely something with mothers going on there.

"Valid" and "Psychology" are two words with a complicated relationship.

>>12428957

No.

>>12430265
This. I feel like the average political philosophy has a better graspe on human nature than "psychologists"

>>12428957
Most of what Freud described were real phenomena. His fault was that he generalized everything he found and he assumed its true for everyone so he could build a (wrong) unified theory of the mind. The oedipus complex exists and so does castration angst and penis envy. It's just not the case that everyone has it.

>>12431164
This is interesting, can you explain more?

I jerk to m/s incest a lot, and these are my personal thoughts on it.

Mother is the symbol of the goddess, whose "light" domains are life and love and physical comfort. Literal sweetness pours from her body for you to drink as a child, and she makes pleasing musical soothing sounds to you. Her love is unconditional. She will always, always love you and there's nothing she can do about that.

The issue comes from it being ok from a social and personal standing to only acknowledge the light side of her. Her secret side is that in order to even be the mother, she must have been the lover or the whore, taking seed in the primal act of copulation. When you realize that, it changes your view of her. You can't accept seeing her on a sexual level so you resist against it, but what you resist persists. You find yourself fascinated by this secret side, the union of mother and whore, and how healing it might be for you to finally find reconcilation of these two halves.

>>12430265
I dont understand please elaborate for a brainlet

This is just an attempt to summon mommyposter isnt it

Just go to exhentai and you will see

>>12431626
My question is what causes this phenomena of matronly desire, not to partake in its excesses.

>>12428957
oedipus neither killed his father nor lay with his mother - since laius was, in fact, oedipus's royal predecessor, not his progenitor, and jocasta was the theban representative of the pre-hellenic mother-goddess, not his progenitrix.

>>12431164
What is his unifying theory of psychology cause apart from the whole sexual libido sublimation thing which he himself retracted.

Also the point of the oedipus comples is that u get over it around the age u start puberty. Ur desire for ur mother is repressed and sublimated to other women who are representations of the mother figure ( not the actual mother as many mistake)

>>12431528
Mommyposting seems to be on a major upswing, surpassing even schizoposting in the last few days.

Why are some men so desperate to return to their mother's love and affection, or, even going as far as to desire a return to the womb?

>>12431807
People's perception of life can get pretty grim and crooked

>>12428957
if you are bourgeois kike who grew up with nanny, his mother is distant and father chastises you despite being himselve failure... yes then it is.

>>12431807
Of all things in this world, what could be greater than to be wholly loved by a motherly woman, who utterly suffocates you in her feminine fragrance? What else would any man need? Mommyposter saw this with crystal clarity.

>>12431807
A mother loves you no matter what. An equal sexual mate has demands and expectations.

>>12428957
Are you referring to a child's desire for their mother, or an adult man's desire for a similar figure? I'm not sure if Freud's theory covers the latter, but I'm also not familiar with the oedipus complex in general. I know only that I, like others here, would love to have a motherly, caring woman in my life.

>>12431771
Psychosexual development theory, which he largely developed by employing self-analysis. He used this to explain almost any psychological affliction. It is interesting work, but his wrong assumption is that every person on the planet is Sigmund Freud.

This is going to be a total pseud post:

Freud takes observations from literature and translates them into a psychological language which is highly systematic and more readily acceptable to the early 20th century.

I am convinced that Shakespeare was aware of the subconscious, and paid special attention to the vast implications of subtle psychological injuries caused by family romance, as in Hamlet. [See Blooms chapter on Freud in the Western Canon]

The Greeks were practically obsessed with sexual drama. Nietzsche hints at an idea similar to Jung's collective unconscious in Birth of Tragedy.

Freud did not "get to the bottom" of all this. He skimmed some of the fat off of the top and sculpted it into a highly original system of thought. His sculpture is so convincing that he is often mistaken for having apprehended human nature.

It was a great relief to me when I realized he was not the apprehender but merely one more of a long line of commentators. I realized this in a dream, I can't explain how but I woke up one morning realizing this.

I should also mention that Ive been having extremely strange dreams. I fell asleep reading a Shakespeare poem and dreamed in words, which I could see before me on a piece of paper. One of the lines read "it was as if he were a blind man, entrusting the writing of his will to another."

I also had a dream in 4chan posts the other night.

I have the complex. Sometimes it's subtle sometimes it's not
I don't think Freud meant you outright have sexual desire towards your mother or you want to fuck her, but the way you behave around her and towards your mother and the explanation behind it.

Biologically-neurological predispositions of the child to cling to his mother, since it means protection, food, love, etc. It is not hard to think why you are so dependent to your mother, after all, you live 9 months inside her. Take it to other animals and close relatives genetically and it is still the same. Of course a dog is independent rather faster, but you have to keep in mind we humans depend on our parents for at least 18 years, according to recent opinions.

>>12433087
Forgot to add that we humans are some of the creatures that take more time to fully develop independent.

Anon, I don't mean to concern you, but it may just be that the source of da Vinci's insatiable thirst for knowledge was infact a sublimated homosexual instinct caused by a lack of a father figure in his earliest years. You can see this clearly in one sentence when observing the flight patterns of birds. You see, he claims to have had an early memory of a bird violently batting it's tail against his lips when he was a suckling. But you see, Anon, it is unlikely that he would have such a memory due to childhood amnesia, so it is more likely a phantasy projected back into his childhood. And the birds tail, of course, is a penis. But the memory was likely invoked by the passionate kissing on his lips that his original mother did as she substituted him for the husband figure that was no longer around.
That will be all.

>>12433873
My highschool psych teacher believed everything freud wrote was true and the entire class was structured around learning and applying his psychoanalytical models

>>12434080
>highschool psych teacher

i love older women but i despise my own mother (because she was a narcissistic bitch)

>>12434080
Sounds neat

>>12429915
>It couldn't have been seeing naked statues

It was the statues mate

I don't want to fuck my mum, just everyone elses.

Every boy wants to please his mom. Mine's old she's still fit not like I want to fuk her. Because she's my mom. Someone else suggested transfer of power from your mom to your mate and that's probably natural. What's the alternative? Like if you have no mom?

>Men want to find good mother children to rise their kids

My face when

>>12435009
good mothers to raise their children^

I apologize for going full retard there

>>12435009
That's why we don't want angry feminist cunts.

>>12428957
What if I wanna fuck my dad and kill my mom?

I just want my mom give me a nursing handjob while patting my head and telling me I'm a good boy

>>12435048
My dude.

>>12434923
I was just a little girl and it didn’t feel sexual in the least. I just thought they were pretty. And the male statues revolting.
Other girls see the same things and it doesn’t happen with them

>>12435032
Who am I angry with?

>>12435045
Orestes Complex

>>12435045
you're out of luck there butterfly i don't think he's interested

>>12435076
Vulgar twit

>>12432947
I once had a dream where a voice told me to kill Borges because he was an illuminati

>>12435080
easy

>>12428957
No.

Also, it is fairly common for people to feel attracted to others that share physical similarities with their parents. The answer doesn't come from psychology but from evolution, from biology.

>>12431712
it was both

>>12435110
>it was both
eh?

>>12432542
My mother spent my childhood trying to get rid of me and implicated me in her suicide note. Welcome to reality. Correlation is not causation. People are garbage. Mother's love is conditional. And freud was deeply delusional.

>>12435072
There seems to be a discrepancy in your trip code.

>>12431394
Absolutely based post

>>12435405
people that go on about reality are somehow always the most deluded

>>12431528
mommyanon said he was taking a break from 4channel

>>12428957
I don't even think the love of motherly women has anything to do with parental influence.

To allow a caring woman to become the dominant party in the relationship and to submit to her wholly is to allow yourself to show your emotions and express who you truly are without fear of ridicule. A motherly woman (be they young or old) is also mentally mature and as a result is strong and resilient enough for you to not worry with the added stress of having to baby her. Of course, you still have to help her with her personal problems when they arise, but I'd much rather help a woman who turns to me out of mutual trust rather than one who turns to me because she's a leech. It also means that I know I can turn to the woman in question for guidance and support when I'm in trouble.

To me, going after mentally mature and compassionate women just seems logical from a standpoint of both practicality and emotional fufillment. Such women are the most beautiful beings who I would happily submit to.

>>12437073
In his place, I'll just give everyone the daily reminder that misogyny is disgusting, femininity is beautiful, women are miracles of the universe, and that a good woman deserves nothing less than wholehearted affection and respect.

>>12437228
>misogyny is disgusting, femininity is beautiful, women are miracles of the universe, and that a good woman deserves nothing less than wholehearted affection and respect
wtf true

>fantasize about killing my dad for being such a violently judgmental prick every waking moment
>he dies
>grieve over him every day while remembering everything we did

fuck bros

>>12431891
This.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westermarck_effect

>>12428957
yes as described by mgtow intellectuals of the youtube sphere

>>12428957
No, but its very useful to flip it on its head– the oedipus complex is not a psychological constant in every individual, but is instead the abstract framework by which society establishes normative behaviours and catalogues/condemns the variety of deviant behaviours. Oedipus makes so much sense when you move onto Lacan and realise its triadic formulation is actually a function of the language we use, IE. the symbolic, imaginary and real, rather than being explicitly 'about' oedipal desires. In this sense you can use oedipus not as a way of thinking about normal and deviant desire, but rather as something which can illuminate the mechanisms of repression that ruthlessly examine and diagnose the collective psychology.

>>12437228
>femininity is beautiful, women are miracles of the universe
nice madonna/whore complex. women are normal people, stop putting pussy on a pedestal

>>12431124
Interesting proposition...

Since political philosophy essential grapples with the question about what a 'human' is in order to prescribe the appropriate state to administer and oversee human affairs.

>>12438944
There's nothing wrong with admiring traits that are typically associated with the feminine.

This is not to say all women are either perfect or whores. It just means that traits of femininity and the feminine aesthetic are ones worth respecting.

>>12435048
>>12435061
>ywn cum inside your mom while laying on top of her feeling her heartbeat as she caresses your back and kisses your forehead

>>12439515
Christ thats not right man get a grip

>>12439269
>admiring female traits = “women are the miracles of the universe”
Sorry but that’s a little more than admiration, admire them for worldly achievements, not for some vague metapysical notion of “the feminine”. It’s precisely the kind of generality that women’s emancipation has sought to dismantle

>>12434171
This. Do you think our love for older women comes from a broken relationship with our own mother?

>>12439872
it could be, it´s the only way to regain the original unconditional love that we never experienced

I think i have an Oedipus complex but is not what Freud described. when i was young my parents went through a very rough patch in their marriage and me and my sister went to stay at our grandmothers house witch because of her failing health her son and daughter in law stayed there as to watch and help out, they were that close. My aunt helped raised me for two years and in that time i grew really close to her running errands and talking everyday . i remember she just had her first baby and she came from hospital and started breast feeding. her breast were huge and at night i would go to the bathroom then sneak an take her bottled breast milk from a zip locked bag and take a sip then stay up in bed thinking about her.

>>12428957
Anima

>>12431712
Ancient literature isn't my strong point, but isn't it the point that the acts were unintentional so that it points to the unconscious? Of course it was a matter of accident in the play whereas the Freudian unconscious is not accidental, but it isn't meant as an exact analogy anyway.

>>12442262
Also, who the mother and father are in the Freudian unconscious has nothing to do with biology but rather with who takes care of the infant. There are some schools that insist more on how the child develops in the womb from a psychoanalytical perspective, but they're pretty niche.

>>12442262
>>12442272
he killed a stranger and slept with the queen of thebes, neither raised him

>>12441427
Freud would suggest that you’re still operating from within an Oedipal complex, as the maternal lack you experienced as a child was deferred onto stand-ins and substitutes that were more distant from your immediate family, making the incestuous aspect appear more permissible. Stealing breastmilk is a precise demonstration of the way you eroticise partial objects through a process of substitution- an erotic affection for your aunt isn’t akin to wanting to murder your father, but it’s not quite better than stealing either.

>>12431712
>Laius was not his progenitor
>Jocasta was not his progenitrix
Explain? I thought they left him on the mountainside to die and he got picked up by a Shepherd and raised in another city.

>>12443268
thanks for writing down what i went through logically but i try not to think of the experience as negative not to say that you put it that way there were no repercussions traumatic or time consuming to deal with mentally, i just have a huge fetish and desire to have a relationship with the type of older motherly figure of my aunt and not women my age.

Do you have an Oedipal complex ?

>>12443407
I wasn’t suggesting that it’s jnherently a negative thing to be attracted to your aunt, just that from a (mostly discredited) Freudian perspective it would be seen to be a perversion or sexual deviance of sorts. I don’t think the mind is as simple as “trauma creates lack which then chases its fulfilment with maternal substitutes”. Freud was a prime example of someone who universalised his own neuroses into a study of sexuality, but nevertheless opened up a discourse about desire and prohibition that is still ongoing today. Even if perversion under Freudian analysis, we wouldn’t be able to talk freely in a neutral space about whether or not certain desires really are indicative of degeneracy.

And no, I don’t have an Oedipal complex, I’m just very interested in psychoanalysis.

>>12443486
what would you recommend as an intro to psychoanalysis as i haven't really read much on the subject and theory's ?

>>12443517
Freud is the natural place to start - interpretation of dreams, civilisation and its discontents, and beyond the pleasure principle are key texts in understanding his thought. Of course, it’s important to understand why many of his ideas have been discredited in more recent times too. Lacan (though very dense) is useful in navigating what the valuable contributions Freud has made are - read his essay on the mirror stage in particular.

>>12443517
Introductory Lectures on Psychoanalysis
Freud and Beyond

>>12443228
That's the point, the unconscious figures of Father and Mother are not known to us yet they dictate how we interact with all others. In killing a stranger Oedipus was killing his father. The Oedipus Complex is not a study of the case of Oedipus but rather an analogy and a limited one at that.

the mommygf is the true universal, you can escaoe Oedipus but the path leads right back into mommygfs loving bosom

>>12434080
wow, i would love to be in your class.

>>12444600
based replacement mommyanon

>>12439542
>he doesnt want to show his mom how much he loves her

>>12445324
That is NOT a healthy way of expressing affection for one's mother!

>>12444600
Based and oedipuspilled,All Roads Lead to Mommy.

Chucka Chi

>>12435405
Obviously a mother's love is not literally unconditional, if you cut off her legs she won't love you anymore. But that's not the point. In the mind of a healthy child (not you) there is the image of the mother figure which loves you no matter what and is always there for you. That image is what men seek and what leads to >>12431807

>>12435110
His psychology was a psychology of evolution you brainlette.

>>12435084
I had a dream yesterday that I was going on a road trip with James Joyce and we were singing in the car and we stopped at a motel and he dived into a pool. Someone analyze this dream for me