/lit/ - Literature

>>12433373
>noticing the discrepancy between jews and other races is perfectly fine! why do u think they're so successful lol
>asians are so fucking smart dude have u seen their iqs
>wtf did u just say whites had higher iqs than blacks you fucking racist

>>12433373
Lol the lab didn't deny it they just said it was incompatible

>/lit/- literature

First of all, putting "Books for this feel" in your post doesn't make it /lit/ related.
Secondly, I thought this guy died 20 years ago and after seeing him in that webm it seems that I was correct.

There are quite obviously a number of Africans who prove him wrong. It's the west's job to stop it's own exploitation of Africa and help the rest of them improve.

But is it just genetics? Lot of them are low income and they tend to have lower IQ regardless of race.

>>12433534
shit tier bait
>>12433536
the poorest european nations still have a significantly higher iq on average than any african nation

>>12433536
No, that's why he is being kicked out, because he is isn't willing to admit that it isn't just a "genetics" problem.

>>12433552
There is nothing to imply Africans can't also reach a higher IQ with a proper education and society

>>12433373
THAT SURE SHOWED THE OLD BIGOT

>>12433552
The poorest European nations are also significantly wealthier than any African nation.

>>12433568
thanks to their higher iq.

>>12433536
In addition to it being clearly more complex than a matter purely of genetics, the main issue (at least in my opinion) is the types of conclusions that many come to in relation to these findings: support of discriminatory legislation, lopsided legal treatments, etc.

>>12433536
Low income whites have higher IQ than low income blacks. I don't know why people keep talking about income or education levels as if there aren't incredibly clear differences in IQ distribution on every level.

>>12433552
I was speaking more of blacks and other races in the same country like the US. Would imagine the difference wouldn't be that extreme.

>>12433574
If people are radically different in terms of cognition or capabilities why shouldn't they be treated differently? We don't have any problem discriminating against down syndrome people when they apply to become an airline pilot.

>>12433577
Only in the US. Black people in the UK have the same levels of IQ

How do all you racists cope with being on the wrong side of history? Nothing you can do will change the path.

>>12433435
>mission
>values
>policies
they didn't even try to counter-fact his ass

>>12433594
Feel free to provide evidence because I don't believe it for one minute.

>>12433573
That's overly simplistic and looking at the difference of IQ between European nations would prove your reasoning wrong.

>>12433593
The difference between someone of average IQ and someone with Down's Syndrome is much, much larger than the gap between a white person of average IQ and a black person of average IQ.
It's also plainly obvious that IQ as a concept has flaws. What does it mean precisely for the measure of someone's intelligence to be reduced to a single integer without taking into account the unique strengths and weaknesses of individuals?

>>12433565
there is equally nothing to imply that they could besides baseless musing

>>12433568
it takes about a second of research to see this is untrue in regards to gdp per capita
a number of eastern european nations have a lower gdp per capita, as well as nomial gdp, than some african nations

>it's another "clueless millennials try to debate a controversial scientific question using tidbits they picked up from online dilettantes" thread
Really, though, your time would be better spent reading.

>>12433593
But why not judge on an individual basis? There's lots of low IQ whites, what about them? What about high IQ blacks? Even if you say there's few of them, they should be treated the same as a high IQ person of another race, right?

>>12433623
The controversy is bringing science into it. Who cares about if one group of people isn't as smart as another, it doesn't devalue their worth as a human like STEMmers like to claim.

>>12433619
Well I'm not saying we should ban blacks from becoming airline pilots, but we should treat them differently in other areas, like criminal justice or education.

>>12433628
I don't have any problems treating them individually if those individuals can prove they're outliers.

>>12433622
>GDP per capita is an accurate measure of a nations wealth
The fact that you even mention nominal GDP is laughable.

>>12433618
not at all, there's a reason why somalis have an average iq of 68, which isn't found anywhere else except maybe in abbo communities.

>says something that science proved was untrue
>gets kicked out rightfully

Whats the problem?

>>12433647
so you don't have an actual argument?

>>12433657
it was never proven untrue

>all these asshurt mulatto trannies
lmao

>>12433644
>but we should treat them differently in other areas, like criminal justice or education.
This is where my main critique of racial bias lies. Should blacks and whites receive differing levels of punishment for the same crimes? I personally don't see any logical reason for that to be the case. Even if, like in America, it's based on precedent, it's one that we already know is doomed to have a negative impact, both socially and psychologically.

>b-but if blacks had equal access to education and wealth they would totally jump up 30+ iq!!

>>12433667
>mulatto trannies
Do theses even exist.

>>12433660
My argument stands.

>>12433664
" Dr Watson re-stated his view that black people are less intelligent than white, because of their genetics. Scientists everywhere condemned his comments.

Dr Watson’s comments, they said, were “reprehensible, unsupported by science...the laboratory condemns the misuse of science to justify prejudice.”

>>12433657
Science didn't prove it was untrue. If you read all the reactions on him (or biologists with similar views), you'll see that they almost never address the scientific dimension of their statements.

>>12433678
provide empirical evidence that the poorest nation in europe is still vastly more wealthy than any african nation or shut the fuck up, you retarded nigger

>>12433680
>Scientists everywhere
polemics, this is no clear indication of who and how many scientists agreed with this.

>>12433681
They kicked him out because it was un-scientific. I trust all the scientists decision more than some clueless anons from /pol/

op here posted this as bait to expose the /pol/ posters this board is fucking trash lmao

>>12433680
>misuse of science to justify prejudice
lol
basically, you can't say that because it hurts feelings :(

>>12433680
They never provide evidence. They condemn his statements on ethical reasons, not scientific ones. Also if you read the condemnations themselves, you'd see that many of them don't come from scientists that work within molecular biology, but from people in completely unrelated fields, like law and sociology. And what do they know about this topic that Watson does not?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve#Criticisms

He basically bases his Argument on The Bell Curve. You can read it's criticisms here

>>12433673
I'm not talking so much about punishments but more about civil rights. I don't think blacks should have such strong 4th amendment rights until the crime level in black communities are comparable to whites. Policies like stop and frisk were incredibly effective and took a lot of criminals off the street. Blacks may not like it at first but if this actually lowers the crime rate we all benefit, us financially since we don't have to pay for their crimes and them because it will gradually change their culture away from the one it is today which encourages thug behavior.

>>12433704
lot of jews there, huh

>>12433536
they are adapting to a system that's completely alien to them, the west should let them live in huts and go back to hunting again

Who the fuck cares, if the chinks cant whip the niggers into shape than it doesnt matter, its just a continent full of retards. Importing them en masse is obviously stupid however

Reminder to watch Empire of Dust at least once a year.

The IQ test is flawed because clearly whites are superior to Asians and Ashkenazi Jews.

>>12433692
>They kicked him out because it was un-scientific. I trust all the scientists decision more than some clueless anons from /pol/
No, they kicked him out because he made controversial statements. The debate on the genetics behind it is very much alive and not settled at all. Lewontin and Edwards had quite a lot of disagreement about it, and there's a great review on this topic here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1893020/

Also, like i said, many of those 'scientists' don't work in the field of molecular biology, and their opinion is therefore on this topic is therefore worth as much as that of any regular joe. Just read their letters of disapproval, and then check what their background is. In about 80% of the cases it wasn't even related to any form of biology. Sure, a sociologist is a scientist, but why should i care what he thinks of molecular biology? What weight does it have?

>>12433737
This the libshits cry anyway because you are trying to "westernize" them. Maybe if we stop propping up their shitty leaders they can get somewhere on their own.

>>12433719
I would have to read up on whether or not stop-and-frisk policies actually helped to reduce crime, but having such a policy does set a grim precedent regarding what could be seen as a "civic gatekeeping" for blacks or black areas.

Genetics isn't the only factor that determines IQ. Plus he made a bunch of strange comments of him just making his own projections. It isn't the black and white situation that you all are pretending it is.

>>12433762
Most Leftists want to westernize the world to the best model of society.

>>12433777
>It isn't the black and white situation that you all are pretending it is.
Nice pun (also I agree)

>>12433414
I mean I get what you're saying...but none of your examples say that we believe those phenomena to be entirely based in genetics

>>12433777
I agree that IQ isn't determined solely by genetics, but adult IQ correlates roughly 80% with genetics. You can remove heavy metals in the water and provide adequate nutrition, but after that IQ will curve towards an asymptote that is determined solely by genetics.

reminder high IQ is also associated with being socially inept and overt pattern seeking behavior aka autism

>>12433747
For what purpose? Taking the kekistani redpill?

>>12433815
Smells like cope

>>12433719
How about instead of restricting their freedom and constitutional rights perhaps go more to the root of the problem. Lot of blacks are low income, low income areas/families commit more crime. Even if you think it's largely genetics, you can't deny that some education would be better in those areas who have shit schooling. Another issue being the fact that black families are divided with missing father figures, another factor that leads to black youth going towards crime. Get the drugs out of the areas, clean them up, etc. Simply just taking their rights and frisking them isn't really gonna fix the problems the black community faces.

>>12433373
The exact feel you are looking for

>>12433831
This is not an income problem. Poor whites don't commit anywhere near the level of crime poor blacks do. Rich blacks commit more crime than poor whites. The Appalachian mountains and Kentucky are some of the whitest and poorest areas in the country yet they have some of lowest levels of crime. The disparity remains when making any sort of comparison, whether it's with single parents, high school dropouts, children of drug users, whatever. The difference is racial.

We are different people and should be treated accordingly.

>>12433808
Source?

>>12433831
or just skip the bureaucracy, time and money, and get them all to fuck off

>>12433655
Somalis are one of the few africans that have had civilisation since antiquity.

Youre probably a swede thats intimidated the somalis roaming your cities and fucking your women

>literally advocating for a segregated society
>/pol/tards pretend he did nothing wrong

>>12433930
Why would a swede be mad about somalis? I thought diversity would be good for sweden?

>>12433930
Don't they have caucasian admixture from mixing with some Arab tribes?

>>12433930
>muh dick
the great 70 iq african

>>12433897
>Rich blacks commit more crime than poor whites
lmao the Jontron line, there is literally no evidence of this.
Assuming poor blacks do commit more crime than poor whites (you may be right idk), it's a fact that poor people have a tendency to commit more crime. Poor whites commit more crime than financially stable whites, same with any other race. Do the poor people of Kentucky face the other issues poor blacks face though? Do they have broken families, do they have drug problems? The fatherless families in particular is a HUGE issue the black community faces, an issue that isn't nearly as prevalent with whites.

>>12433919
Perhaps another solution that costs less time and money, all the white nationalists/supremacists just move somewhere else without blacks.

>>12433947
provide a rational argument against segregated society

Africans who actually remember recognize it

https://youtu.be/7Rh6gDEO4JA

>>12433958
>allow me to remove all personal agency from blacks
>all their issues are explainable through the lens of societal failures
bit patronizing - even racist

>>12433958
Family values are a dead meme their dads arent going to come back or stay.

>>12433911
you will literally not get a real source on that he's just pulling out shit he heard from some retard like Molyneux

>>12433986
Nice argument. Not removing personal agency from just blacks. You're low income and fatherless, doesn't matter your race, you're gonna be more prone to commit crime. I'm not even dismissing the idea that genetics may be at play, but environment is definitely a factor, low income people are more prone to crime, lots of blacks are low income. You can't fix the genetic issue, so fix the other issues.

>>12433536
Asians raised in malnutrition and poverty have slightly higher IQs than whites raised in malnutrition and poverty, and both have significantly higher IQs than Africans raise in malnutrition and poverty

The IQ gap remains regardless of the circumstances in which each test taker was raised.

Low income whites also have higher IQs than high income blacks and are less likely to commit crime

>>12433800
You're right, they are only more successful because they've been uncultured to have higher intelligence through better parenting and positive stereotypes. Saying you're born with a greater or lesser ability to recognize patterns and remember things is both morally reprehensible and simply just incorrect.

>>12433966
It dehumanizes people

>>12433973
>black man who experienced colonization
"it wasn't that bad, we got more than we lost"
>white interviewer
did they hit you with whips or not??????

>>12433966
>provide a rational argument against segregated society

You would have to segregate 40% of whites from each other as well, after all, there's a huge population of white people that don't even have 100 IQ.

>>12433973
Bringing Africa up to standards /=/ colonization

Science is a tool to be used to support good positions, not enable bad ones

>>12434071
And this is a good thing!

>>12434051
not an argument
>>12434066
not an argument

>>12433966
>provide a rational argument against segregated society
QED

>>12433536
I don’t think it’s clear cut but it’s difficult to make an honest appraisal when people in OP get shutdown and raped for presenting a socially discomforting hypothesis

>>12433536
In America, I would wager it's largely genetic, with the exception of very small amounts of influence from mental illness and lead paint.
In Africa, it could be around 5 or even more points lower that it has to be due to childhood iodine deficiency.
What's so obnoxious about this IQ debate is that it's a bunch of higher than average IQ people who jerk each other off over being clever telling everyone IQ isn't real while evaluating themselves on heuristics for intelligence, that often aren't particularly intelligent (e.g. whether you can use the right social graces and recall irrelevant facts).
With that said, there are flaws or limitations in IQ as a metric of capability because many other things to do with a person's physiology, circumstances etc. go into that, and afaik IQ doesn't measure memory, mental health or honesty with oneself or others.

>>12433911
Plomin

>>12433692
>trust all the scientists
Yikes and unscientific
Scientific change, btw, is often caused by people from the old scientific establishment dying, and new theories have a tendency to be met with intensive reeeing and attempts at character assassination, or even tampering with evidence. Sorry but science is done by worthless humans, not pure seekers of truth and if you take them at their word you're as foolish as someone who trusts priests.

>>12434051
So?

>>12434191
Good
Post

>>12434066
My difficulty with this is that people with an IQ between 100 and 130 are in the shit-tier zone and will tell you more bullshit with more fervor than people below 100 or above 130 or so.

>>12434221
So true

Regardless of your opinion in this discussion. How much time a day you spend discussing race? Why is it so important in 4chan? Most of you don't even interact with people of other races that much anyway.

>mfw people bitch about too many browns in the west, but the box is open now, and there's nothing anyone can do about it, and the situation will only become more so, and all this mad is utterly futile and the brown majority will write it out of history

>>12434237
If you haven’t noticed, sweetie, everyone is talking about race because it’s a pertinent social issue. If you’re going to frame this as pathological then at least extend that to the entire histrionic discourse and tell everyone to stop posting about white men on twitter rather than just shutting down 4chan inceloids
>Most of you don't even interact with people of other races that much anyway.
I doubt this. Half these Fagotts aren’t even white

>>12434237
People upset over society looking for out-groups to blame and then everything starts turning into an us-vs-them situation. It's quite common throughout history.

>>12434375
Are you answering your own post retard fuck

>>12434340
This but I sincerely doubt all the browns will get along. Whoever comes out on top is gonna make whitey look like an angel

The Bible and the Koran. Even if he's right you have to be relatively civil and kind to all...which I often struggle with.