/lit/ - Literature

No, Demiurge is based and cutepilled. It's only proto-christcuckolds trying to blame him for all their problems.

Demiurge didnt do anything wrong
It was just trying to help

>>12399822
if the trickster demiurge didn't do anything wrong how come other ancestor spirits killed him and tore his heart out

Imagine a blind retard making things with play doo
That is the demiurge

>>12399791
The Absolute and the Conditioned together make The One Absolute. God is thus ultimately, undividable.

The Second, who is in reality the Fourth by the very essence of multiplication, the Demiurge, whom all nations of Men call The First, is a lie grafted upon a lie, a lie multiplied by a lie upon a superstructure of lies.

In a same fashion, IHVH or Yod He Vau Heh is divided into 4 elements.

He is called the Second in relation to that which is ultimately the absolute reality, but comprehended under the title of the First. But the vulgar people can conceive of nothing beyond the creator, and therefore call him The First. He is really the Fourth and of course his nature is fourfold, like the very nature He has created and represented by the Four Seasons and the Four elements. This Four is conceived of as the Dyad multiplied by the Dyad; falsehood confirming fasehood. The Four Ages are nothing but illusory as are the Four Yugas.

The Four Heads of Brahma all speak lies to unitiniates.
>For he is wisdom, and by wisdom hath he made the Worlds, and from that wisdom issue judgements.

In Abrahamic context these represent the 4 devils of Inferno: Satan, Lucifer, Leviathan, Belial, that are the great princes of the evil of this world and thus Satan is worshipped by men under the name of Jesus; and Lucifer is worshipped by men under the name of Brahma; and Leviathan is worshipped by men under the name of Allah; and Belial is worshipped by men under the name of Buddha. Just like the Vedas originally were One, they were Divided into Four by Vyasa.

>>12399868
I'm sorry, pajeets are not welcome on 4chan. Go shit on a street somewhere.

>>12399868

>In Abrahamic context these represent the 4 devils of Inferno: Satan, Lucifer, Leviathan, Belial, that are the great princes of the evil of this world and thus...

gonna have to elaborate on this shit my guy

>>12399791
"The demiurge really is a piece of shit"
>doesn't pick up stray rubbish on the street
"Why would he invent evil"
>cuts in line at the bus stop
"The world is a shithole because of that fucking demiurge"
>rapes a baby
Post "fuck u demiurge" or ur mom will die in her sleep tonight

Really makes me think anons

>>12399911
Back to the cuckshed with you

>>12399868
This, the gnostic demiurge is more or less the divine personification of Maya. That the gnostics conceived of it as a malevolent entity instead of divine art reflects their Judeo-Christian origins.

>>12399791
>the urge to smell demibraps is rising

>>12399911
let me put it in memes so you might understand
>makes reddit which operates on idotic rules like upboats so it remains an absolute shithole
>point out how limited it is, can't even post images on the site, need to have an account to post
>demiurge apologists: uhh it's not his fault it's reddit, it's your fault, if you don't like it you can kill yourself

>>12399952
>too dumb to write some userscripts or use someone else's
You should unironically kys. Demiurge did nothing wrong.

>>12399952
>hating the world which is objectively good and is only corrupted by the actions of humans

the world isn't reddit and the demiurge didnt create it, you and your shitmuncher accomplices make the world feel like reddit

>but the demiurge created me as a piece of shit
your only argument, feel free to say it loud and proud

>>12399952
Is that OP's mum?

Gnosticism is a compelling mythology when life is shitty and you feel trapped by the powers that be. But life isn't always so bad.

>>12399999
CHECK DEM QUINTS

>>12399969
You can't make everyone use a userscript, also what would even be an equivalent of that? You don't have access to the dev tools.
What the demiurge gave you is a weak, fragile body that crumbles back to dust in a 100 years, which is an unimaginably cruel limitation for a soul. We are limited by time, causality, identity, linearity, morality, logic, emotion, feeling and a thousand other cruel inventions, which you hold so dearly only because it's all you know. All that you are is contained in some big biological computer made out of neurons, pathetic.

Just look at how crudely everything was made, so crudely in fact that the scientific consensus is that life is just an accident. We are here due to evolution, which is literally trying everything at random and climbing forward on mountains of corpses. It is mindless savagery. The demiurge is mindless.

>>12399911
>be baby
>get raped
"omg I love you demiurge, I see it now, it's all my fault, I was asking for it"

>>12399797
if the demiurge is so bad then how come we are allowed to make funny memes of it?

I've got a semi and an urge if you know what I mean

anyway /x/ killed the demiurge a couple of years ago

>>12400034
>gets raped by pedo
>blames demiurge

I find your lack of free-will disturbing, the rubbish on our streets, the disorder in our public transport, the rampant pedophilia and sexual degeneration is the collective sum of our demonic-pagan society.

>>12400248
demiurge created a world where rape is one of the main features though, if they didn't want us to do it why include it? It's like playing some open world survival game and getting mad that people kill you and steal your shit, it's part of the experience, not my fault it's not balanced at all

if rape is possible it's guaranteed to happen, what was that retard expecting?

>life is good
>life is bad
Both doesn't matter, a travel might be good or bad, the question is, why did the demi urge started life? he could be in eternal bliss but he decided to hassle himself with work? or maybe, like the monad, didn't willfully created it but it was an accident.

>>12399868
and Belial is worshipped by men under the name of Buddha
Stopped reading here

>>12400021
look how satisfied that baby is

>>12399822

Capitalism is the demiurge

The demiurge is the entity worshipped by all of the abrahamic religions. They just focus on different aspects of how it controls it's followers.

>>12399952

What the fuck is that?

>>12400021
There is no knowing whether it's a crude or cruel creation without definite knowledge of outer bounds. For all intents and purposes we might be living in the finest and kindest universe possible. Gnostics are the incels of religion.

>>12400280
>society exterminates degenerates and instills moral values in its people
>rape disappears as if it never existed but only in the imagination of twisted minds

that was hard

>>12400442
>lol is fine because you can be worse1
1 here a hylic demiurge worshiper is threatening a pneumatic

>>12400456
>that was hard
>an autist on a korean basket weaving forum has all the answers on how to stop crime an violence, lol it's so easy

*yawns*

>>12400442
>we might be living in the finest and kindest universe possible.
>this is the best and most stress free rape dungeon possible, rejoice and praise the demiurge!

watch out who you call an incel, cuck

>>12400437
A goat

>>12400437
the demiurge

>>12400177
So did the demiurge and look where that brought us.

>>12400461
It's not what I said. But it is the level of comprehension expected from your average Platonist larpcel.

>>12400340
It's all just his demi-brainfart.

>>12399952
>>12400494
That's a goat v0.1.

>>12400474
I'm not making the argument how to fucking solve real life. I'm making the argument that dense cunts like you make the world a shitty place not some "demiurge" spook.

>>12400541
I don't think a discussion about metaphysics is suited to IQ of an antisemitic /pol/tard. Please remove yourself from the thread.

>>12400456

>>12400442
>For all intents and purposes we might be living in the finest and kindest universe possible.

Calling this a magnum opus is tremendously insulting to its creator.

>>12399791

5 masquerading as 1.

>>12400912
based schizo poster

I am unironically a believer in some kind of Demiurge.

If you understand the nature of your soul, as consisting of numerous bodies of increasingly subtler substance - your physical body is the densest, but within it there are many others which have the same features and appearance as the physical one, rather the physical one is based on the subtler ones, and that your emotions, personality, mind, and memory are stored here, and these migrate across lifetimes from body to body for the process of reincarnation - and that at bottom your are Pure Awareness, which is synonymous with Bliss, then it makes me wonder HOW we ended up in these awful, physical bodies which are subject to disease, pain, bodily functions and other constant ills which the higher shades of our souls are not subject to. If you're a Platonist like me, and have read accounts of the spirit world, you'll know as well that people who have come back from death or mediums who spewk to the dead report the spirit world to consist of the same entities here, but in a subtler form. Vibrating at a higher frequency. Trees, oceans and so on.

So yeah, unironically I believe our physical world is a type of prison. I just can't decipher whether it was invented by a devil (Demiurge), or if it was created by the same force which created all the good aspects of the world too. And upon death, assuming there's no reincarnation-trap I hear about, then we'll head on to those higher realms.

>>12399791
No, humans are responsible for world being such a shit hole

>>12401063
>No, humans are responsible for world being
>humans are responsible for being
>part of the being responsible for everything

funny

>>12401063
>humans are responsible for limited life span and an entropic world
huh, didn't knew that.

>>12400990
>reincarnation-trap
I'd like to be part of that trap for a while, at least if I got come boons like memory, had some control as to where and when I end up. Heaven can wait. Right now it's alright too, although I exist primarily inside my head, imagination, fantasy etc. so I feel like I'm one foot in the afterlife already.

Strange! that you should not have suspected that your universe and its contents were only dreams, visions, fiction! Strange, because they are so frankly and hysterically insane—like all dreams: a God who could make good children as easily as bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave his angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice and invented hell—mouths mercy and invented hell—mouths Golden Rules, and forgiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man's acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him!...

You perceive, now, that these things are all impossible except in a dream. You perceive that they are pure and puerile insanities, the silly creations of an imagination that is not conscious of its freaks—in a word, that they are a dream, and you the maker of it. The dream-marks are all present; you should have recognized them earlier.

>>12400963

It's simple. Dialectic, self-identity, oblivion, inversion, abomination, etc.

>>12401198
Are you sure it's 5? Not 3?
Logos, Gnosis, Pistis - that holds the answer.

>>12400990
Try scientology, you'd like it

>>12401234

To answer OP's question, 5 as in the conclusion of instantiations communing in ignorance (3) and inferring their own middle or midst (4) as a thing in and of itself, Ontologically and eventually Ontogenically significant, until they conclude it must be God (1). See Empiricists-Materialists prostrating themselves before every Phenomenon, proudly ignoring their better judgement, worshiping the vacuous Cosmos.

>>12399911

>>12399911
Are you alright? You gaslighting or full out having a anger fit? Maybe you should drink some water.

>>12399911
I just like building things high that remind me of dicks. Also, rockets and hope.
---
I think about, too.

>>12399855

>>12399911
anon??? what is this reddit reversal 4chanishstanese?

>>12400990
Based and interestingpilled.

>>12400021
>>12400248
It is a sign of decadence and hubris. Look at the church and look at the methods each has helped put in place over centuries in communities. The sum of the churches of the world do create the horrors you hate so much. You set out to help and then subsume cultures and peoples with your methods. And you do it because you are ignorant of god's true will granted by the earth and not your gaudy whoreship halls, your sleek communion. What temple have you made of the earth to praise god that is so short sighted that it does not see the carnage of history, of forgotten people. What have you built of communion with the earth that is His. What is your work? What is your works here? What is in your work that is other than the duty to the Common Good of all men? You cannot tell me it is not the Revelations of media and science that gift you back a creed to do good for all of whom you can reach, and to do so in line that your predecessors can do more. I do not select but for the good of all, and selection that makes it easy for my predecessor to do better I see as just. It is in my Stoic values that I would rejoice except that I see no friends with which to reflect the joy of these values anymore. It is why I say not just that these temples are cursed, but that the language of every brother and sister seems only to add salt to Jesus' wounds. A hundred years of silence and action is not ridiculous to one generation that accepts a role in striving for unity of understanding the good.

>>12399855
the Heart of Lorkhan

>>12401155
>*Blisses on your carpet*
you need another dog.

>>12401087
maybe sinning literally causes entropy? not just in ourselves, but in this physical dimension/universe?
i dunno, just thinking out loud, don't know much about this topic

>>12401728
Idiot. Entropy is just statistics and probability. Let's say you start with a little bit of gas in a room. As time passes there are billions of billions of possible states in which this fart spreads, and only a very small number of states where it stays put. The chances of it staying put are so low that hell can freeze over a trillion times and it still won't happen. This is just how the universe is made, chaos happens. If it didn't water would start flowing up streams, water would spontaneously boil, and clouds would take the exact shape of Mona Lisa.

>>12401828
this is a thread about gnosticism, you're clearly missing the point of my post if you only look at it from a "scientific" point of view.
if you don't understand gnosticism, even remotely, why are you even posting in this thread?
are you seriously trying to actually convince people that study gnosticism that they're wrong?
talk about swimming upstream

>>12401828

>>12401846
The "scientific" point of view is just mathematics in this case. A rule so basic that it discredits your pseud ramblings. If you want to talk about gnosticism stop bringing in pseudoscience, especially if your statement is "not just in ourselves, but in this physical dimension/universe" which was clearly meant in this context.

how ironic that you try to deflect by calling others ignorant when it is you

>>12401935
says the guy going around calling people idiots.
whatever helps you sleep at night :)

>>12401409
>>12401420
>>12401426
>>12401436
>>12401581
Does it take so little to break you anon?

>>12401946
>pseud ramblings followed by "i dunno, just thinking out loud, don't know much about this topic"
>suddenly a master baiter and also an expert on philosophy

nice try

demiurge is just a meme

>>12401989
>enters a thread about gnosticism
>responds to gnostics musings with "cold hard science"
>calls everyone else an idiot or pseud, even though clearly has little understanding of any gnostic teachings aside from what he learned through infographics on 4chan
you can justify your behavior and aggression however you want, i can tell you CLEARLY have no clue about gnostic teachings, but don't worry, i forgive you for being so needless aggressive.
i'm still confused what you're even doing in a thread about gnosticism? are you trying to convince people it's wrong? are you THAT full of yourself? lol

>>12399822
>implying the demiurge is the creator

>>12403174
isn't that the literal definition though

>>12403442
yes, it's complicated

>>12403465
thanks for clarifying everything

Demiurge and Gnosticism confuse the fuck out of me desu
Still find it interesting though

My biggest issue with Gnosticism is how dubious and dangerous of a jump it is to believe in the existence of the demiurge, or at least the common belief that the God of the Old Testament is the demiurge. It's one thing to not believe in the existence of a god, or to believe in the wrong god. But if you're wrong, and Christianity is right, you've not only denounced but directly rebelled against God, which is surely the worst fate one could suffer.

The evidence I commonly see presented to claim the existence of the demiurge is explained in Christianity as a direct result of human action, and the folly of man's insatiable search for truth, even at his own expense, could both readily explain how humans could come to the conclusions of Gnosticism while also providing an explanation for the very suffering that these conclusions are built upon.

>>12404423
>you've not only denounced but directly rebelled against God, which is surely the worst fate one could suffer.
If by saying that if God is real then I don't trust him, I'm subjecting myself to the worst fate I could suffer, then I was right not to trust him.

>>12399791
Didnt we solve this already? The universe is logical and so the demiurge must be logical. The universe is causal and the demiurge is benevolent. It seeks go maximize good experienced. To a machine of logic, this can be accomplished in a certain way. Let's pretend for the sake of the thought experiment that ghe demiurge is a bit like a universe simulator. It sets starting conditions and let's it ride. The demiurge must generate all possible good scenarios.
So from .000000000000000repeating1 to 1.0, must exist. Nothing below zero exists because below zero is bad, which would cancel out the good.
Anyway. There is suffering in the world. Supposedly, there are near infinite universe scenarios where the suffering is next to zero. No guarantee of that if you exist though. Only promise is more good than bad. So if that scenario can exist it must, therefore here we are in our shitty world with some beautiful stuff. Cue Louis Armstrong

>>12399855
kill all elves

>>12404423

Your prerogative to doubt God is integral to Christianity.

>>12404959
yeah, that's what Satan said when he offered Adam fruit

Can I blame the demiurge for literally everything? I can right?

>>12404982
everything except your own spiritual decay, as that is not his domain

>>12399885
>uses the Hebrew word for God
>pajeet

>>12405521
>fetishising eastern cults
>not american

What the fuck is going on in this thread?
Am I on /x/?

>>12405763
uneducated pleb

>>12399855
Dont trust (((Mer))) propaganda. no matter if golden-mer or smoky-mer. A Mer snake remains a mer snake

>>12400442
>For all intents and purposes we might be living in the finest and kindest universe possible.
Doubt.png

And no one is saying that this world is cruel or not, only whether it is flawed or not

>>12399791
He is a sad lad but not very bright

>>12401828
>sin is the entropy/diminishment of the soul
>ackshually if you paid attention in physics class


Posts like this are why I'm convinced the West deserves everything that's happening to it.

>>12407228
>maybe sinning literally causes entropy? not just in ourselves, but in this physical dimension/universe?
>but in this physical dimension/universe?

Are you retarded? Oh wait, you're a /pol/tard, so obviously

>>12407235
>grug know thermodynamics, grug say thermodynamics, this box, religion, that box, grug no understand, how can one thing be analogically related to other thing? make no sense for grug, all things this solid stuff here, if grug no see no touch it no exist, grug sleep soundly as the last remnants of his civilization burn outside his cave

>>12407235
http://cosmosandhistory.org/index.php/journal/article/view/18/36

>>12407178
Imagine being a hermetic monk and going to the future to see this as your legacy

>>12407256
>>12407261
>>12407285

>spouting literal pseudoscience
>"entropy" is big word and so scary, what if it's caused by sin?
>just like the western culture decays and incel NEETs rot in their inactivity, the universe is breaking apart... we gotta reach the higher spiritual dimension

Nobody should hold it against me if I have not the slightest respect for all those medieval gnostic ramblings, but judge that the passing of time has quite rightly made an obscure secret of these idiocies, by dumping them into the sea of oblivion; and that even if that pseudo-philosophy were believed by posterity today, out of the blind veneration of Antiquity, why should I entertain superstitious idiocies which arose out of those primitive pre-enlightment minds of occultists and alchemists? No thanks.

>>12407343
yawn

>>12407348
Go and play with your chemistry set, maybe you'll turn urea into gold, they're already the same color, right?

>>12407343
Why are you responding to the guy who responded to me?

>>12407738
Maybe because it was relevant to what I said.

>>12407228
>>12407235
>>12407285
>>12407343
>shows up to LITERATURE forum
>enters a thread about GNOSTICISM
>starts ranting about how Science knows everything, and how gnosticism (or any type of spiritualism) is completely false
>pushes back greasy hair
it's not you're not entitled to your opinions, or even that you're wrong.
i just find it amusing that you're even in this thread trying to "spread the gospel of Science".

I find the idea that some evil being trapped our souls in a material realm to be, frankly, retarded. If anything the soul chose to come here out of hubris and ignorance and will eventually find its (our) way back home

>>12399982
>the world isn't reddit and the demiurge didnt create it
this is fucking hysterical out of context

>>12408177
and some would say that the idea of a "soul" is retarded.
but if you're not a gnostic, why enter a thread about gnosticism, when the OP is specifically asking for info about gnosticism?

i dunno, THAT seems even more retarded than thinking your soul is trapped in the material realm.

>>12408217
>but if you're not a gnostic, why enter a thread about gnosticism

oh you precious little snowflakes and your precious little echo-chambers, how cute
but sooner or later you will have to grow up :(

>>12408232
oh yes, you're obviously the standard for mature behavior :)

>>12408217
What do you think the soul is?

>>12408217
>What is the demiurge? Are they responsible for the world being such a shit hole?
OP specifically asked "What is the demiurge? Are they responsible for the world being such a shit hole?". I answered the second question.

>>12408260
i dunno, i'm still studying gnosticism.
but i know a lot of people don't even believe in a soul.
but i know gnostics believe in a soul, and that it's distinct from the spirit and body.
beyond that, i can't say for 100% certainty since i'm still pretty new to this subject.

>>12399911
Fuck you demiurge

>>12401989

>>12406088

>>12408403
>>12408417
huh? not everyone has insight into your schizoid brain, next time add some text to your I'm sure profound pictures

>>12408436

>>12408436
this

>>12408445

>>12408436
your write prol