/lit/ - Literature

Like 3 months ago

>>12388152
2 years ago

Marxists were right about capitalism but wrong about the solution and pretty much everything else.

What's with the Adorno spam this week? Are we being raided again?

FUCK NON GERMANIC MUSIC
FUCK NATIONALISM
FUCK *YOU*

>>12388152
After reading some marxists I realized how intellectually lazy the "conservative" movement is. The Frankfurt school was pretty smart, him and Kracauer were pretty solid lads. still an ironic nazi tho

>>12388152
>when did you realize marxists were actually the good guys?
when I realized imperialist capitalists were the bad guys (basically after 9/11)

>>12388586
clean your room, man. gulag archipelago, 25 million dead, women are biologically compelled to embarrass you, hillary clinton, praise kek

>tfw you start reading pre-habermas critical theory and realize frankfurt jews are basically fascists if you take everything they said and add nationalism to it

If there was a spiritual element to Marxism then I’d possibly be on board. Although their open-boarders internationalism rules me out

>>12388595
what are you on about?

>>12388223
Fuck off to pol retard

>>12388607
I've been trying to formulate a Blakean Marxism in my head for a while now, it seems apt.
>How the Chimney Sweeper's Cry, every black'ning church appalls
>And the hapless Soldier's sigh, runs in blood down palace walls

>>12388607
Yeah the materialist autism kinda makes me not like it either

>>12388223
Obviously

Its funny to see hit on lit. In germany frankfurt school is a topic no one talks about. People who criticize it are often called conspiracy theorists. And people who talk positive about it get scorned for doing so.
Everyone seems to agree not to talk about it.

>>12388607
every government Marxists have attempted to create has been in the manner of every government before it and that is with a spiritual element lost to most in the moment, but not to anyone how has ever read a history book. Get fucked commie. Back to creatively nothinging yourselflessness.

>>12388596
>pre-habermas critical theory
example lit?

>>12388667

>>12388659
You don't have to support communism to recognize marxist critique of society is appropriate. Read Siegfried Kracauer's writing about memory, his desire for permanence in things like architecture was remarkably conservative.

>>12388688
Seems based, thanks

>>12388586
Those who are truly conservative do not write, since everything that is needed has already been written.

>>12388728
that's a pretty retarded thing to say

>>12388728
Being a leftist is one more argument for a publisher to release your stuff. Being right-wing is one more reason for a publisher not to do it.

>>12388728
takes a lot of writing, this staying in place

>>12388738
Actually the opposite is true - being a (non-fringe) conservative or neoliberal shill gets you published in the mainstream. Look at any Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Target, Drugstore, etc bookshelf, it's full of Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, that terrible thriller by Bill Clinton and James Patterson, various Trumpanalia, etc. Being leftist gets you published in academic journals that don't pay anything, or tiny presses like Verso/Zero/Haymarket/Repeater, which barely pay anything.

>>12388607

You might want to look into Liberation Theology or Walter Benjamin. The latter had a streak of devout Judaism in his Marxist work. Not all Marxists are internationalists, only the smart ones.

>>12388767
don't pretend establishment lefties are excluded from normal discourse

>>12388767
Nigga what, those aren't comparable in the slightest, get back on your meds.

>>12388152
As soon as I actually read them

>>12388767
>not real leftists reeeeeee
The left always instant-balkanizes itself as some sort of defense mechanism against criticism only to later reassemble again into one slimy, red mass.

>>12388706
>appropriate?
Sadly, no. Marx is the worse propagator of his own ideas. He is a worship point for wannabe oligarchs and contrarians. And I haven't found a use for him in economics either. Marxists may enjoy their duel thoughts, but there is no need it. I really don't want to meet any more hypocrites then I have to in this life time.

>>12388815
I have barely read Marx, but the works of Christopher Lasch, Kracauer, Adorno, and Ellul who were all influenced by Marx have been enjoyable and intelligent. Your aversion is this is understandable, I was once like that as well, until I actually read the things that I was talking about. The cultural critique from these writers is extremely informative regardless of your political viewpoints and can actually help you establish an intelligent "ideology" that can tackle contemporary problems in society.

>>12388811
>>12388785
>>12388811

Liberal=!Leftist

>>12388658
yeah but Germany is a country-sized joke whose main identity is 'fuck ethnic german people'

>>12388845
are you German

>>12388837
The thing about these Frankfurt writers and later Marxist theorists is that they were by and large the biggest critics of Marx. Generally I find Marxists absurd and uninformed which is something I feel is in most people talking about politics or philosophy in general. The critique that The Left is Balkanized is true but even outside critics aren’t as hard on Marx as his followers. There are many reasons for this. Marxism and most economic dogmas are simply a selfish thing to involve yourself in as 1) Individuals are largely ineffectual and have no bearing on The State or even their immediate social interactions and 2) The things they study are antiquated. Even Adorno who is someone that I enjoy is old compared to the sophisticated entertainment we see with the benefit of psychoanalysis and technology. It’s almost all posturing as these systems were all produced before nuclear power or the technology boom. We’re living in chaos and we can learn much from intellectuals from the past but this is truly a new era of humanity. I think most of these machinations are simply coping to this. Communism won’t save us. Neither will Capitalism or anything else that’s now irrelevant.

Marx was spiritual but in an inverted material sense.

>>12388733
Sounds like someone that thinks humanity is failing unless it’s in a continuous state of progression regardless of where it’s progressing too. I’m not defending conservatives but make no mistake that they truly is power to their philosophical underpinnings.

>>12388596
There's actually a massive web of weird connections between the early Frankfurt School, anti-coms and ultras, It's fucking bizarre how glossed of this shit is.

Fromm became a government agent who injected himself into Eugene McCarthy's presidential campaign and fucking jedi mind-tricked him into becoming a hard-line Republican.

Rioch, a friend of many people from the school literally worked for the military developing their Psyop shit that was used against communist governments.

>>12388785
>establishment lefties
Not a thing

>>12388811
If you seriously think Bill Clinton is a "leftist" you are a maximally propagandized retard and literally incapable of ingesting any real information about the world other than memes

>>12388152
2 years ago. Adorno’s comments on jazz are stupid though

>>12388586
The conservatives that extracted from frankfurt everything that was worthwhile are far better. Lasch, Lears, etc.

>>12388893
>The end
>is
>nearish?
So we're back to meditation.

>>12388152
WHERE'S THE BLOODY QUOTES!?!

>>12389351
Anyone have her jokes greentext?

thats not arnold gehlen

The Frankfurt School was actually, in a strange way, rather traditional and quasi-conservative. Adorno thought the Enlightenment was a disaster

>>12388152
A broken clock is right twice a day.

marxsim, in the economic or cultural variety, is always sharp in its analysis and blind in its solutions - don't be fooled.

>>12388586
I got something similar by listening to a Terry Eagleton and Roger Scruton debate. They both agreed that modern culture sucks, but Scruton seemed forced into a 'but it totally isn't capitalism's fault' argument that honestly made him sound stupid in comparison.

>>12388152
adorno was not a marxist, just a regular elitist, he was just so spooked by the germans that he pretended to go all the way to the other side to cope with it

>>12389194
the left that can be named is not the true left
t. laozi

>>12392654
but marxism is full on the modernity train, marxism just wants to take it further, not back

>>12388893
I'm similar to other anons here with the bad taste for Marxism from a materialist position. But I'm willing to check out all these writers. I do think marx and engels actual discussions of capitalism is no where near what is happening now in markets. Even since the Frankfurt school things have changed massively. There does need to be some new interpretation.

>>12388607
E.H. Carr combined Marxist teachings with Reinhold Niebuhr; how about that?

>>12388952
books on this topic?