/lit/ - Literature

Philosophy is similarly valueless, only poetry and fiction are worth a tinker's damn.

This post indicates that the value of literature was actually lost on you rather than the STEMfags.

I'm an artsfag but I have to appreciate what STEMlords have done for the world. Not having to walk 5km for a bucket of water is pretty great desu.

You should try to articulate what the value is in literature or poetry.

Consider that many stem majors will, at some point, help to create something which will tangibly improve the quality of life for others.

It's far more likely that over the course of a career a stem major helps the world than a humanities major.

>>12386150
What good is understanding philosophy, and growing wise form literature if you die without ever having acted on it? You need to do things before you do great things. If action doesn't follow learning, then learning was a waste.

>>12386150
Does an iPhone really mean more to than good lit? Pretty barren of you if so.

>>12386186
you are using internet right now

>>12386186
Some people do value an iPhone over good lit. But I think that's unrelated to STEM vs Humanities.

>>12385597
>defining your whole personality based on your college major
yikes
I study math and i'm more well read then most english majors I've talked to. People don't always fit into neet boxes

>>12386215
Always cool to see another math major on /lit/

>>12386201
And if that’s bad you’re just proving my point

>>12386203
The meme is that stem doesn’t see the value in humanity. Valid?

>>12385601
Wrong but 99% of philosophy is just poetry and fiction, which is the problem to begin with.

Philosophy in 2019 needs to be judged on how much it can impact the world in 2019

>>12386266
I'm guessing you'd need some actual depth of knowledge in STEM to accomplish this. Hmmm, imagine understanding multiple subjects instead of throwing poo poo doo doo at people who like something different than you.

>>12386266
>Philosophy in 2019 needs to be judged on how much it can impact the world in 3019
ftfy

>>12385597
i do see the value of philosophy and literature. that's why i'm so depressed, i think, because i majored in stem instead of english like i really wanted to deep in my soul. i traded knowledge for comfort and i'm scrambling to recover by reading wikipedia at my boring programming job, shitposting on /lit/, and slowly replacing video games and netflix with books

/lit/ is the closest thing to.a literary community that i've ever experienced. i love you guys so much.

>>12386305
Does anyone find programming fascinating and enlivening or is it always a means to an end

>>12385597
the chad humanities guy is literally me, except I don't have orgies because I'm a based catholic platonist

>>12386305
Wish we could be like /lit/ before Hiroshimoot, but it has remained one of the cozier boards. What do you like to read anon?

90% of the humanities majors in my school are complete brainlets, and that's a conservative estimate. True Chad's study STEM and are still well-read.

>>12386290
Well stem is changing the world now and philosophy (eg how to implement stem in the world, better laws, how to live, what medical care should look like, etc) can impact the world now as well.

>>12386285
I neither spoke out against understanding multiple subjects nor shat on people liking something different than me.

The world isn't that subjective; I'm saying philosophy needs to do better if you want people to consider it. Most of it is navel gazing at best, outright wrong at worst.

CS Student here. This is my favourite board.

Check-mate

>>12386356
I was agreeing with your post to criticize op. I guess it does seem like I was addressing you directly, my b.

>>12386353
Can confirm about the brainlet part - in the English department I can always rely on at least 5-10 absolute hacks in my class to make my writing look good by comparison.

>>12386317
>Does anyone find programming fascinating and enlivenin
I do.

lots of STEM guys are cool and smart, but yeah, some of them grow up to be 6 figure making STEMcels who give thousands of dollars to twitch thots for the illusory promise of gamer girl pee

>>12386215
based fellow /mathlit/ bro

The true patrician majors in STEM because those are actual skills that require certifications and technical training and then teaches himself humanities in his spare time.
Save your money, you can get all the books for free.

>>12386477
True patricians ground themselves in humanities during undergrad and then go to graduate school to learn the monkey skills.

>>12386442
Shut up.

If you had actually learned anything from literature you would be capable of expressing its value clearly.

Can someone explain this "Professor has never heard of him" meme? Has there ever been a time when professors actually knew their students? It seems so foreign to me. All my classes are at least around 150 people, but I attended a History class once and there were like only 25 people.

>>12386215
>>12386467
god i wish that were me

>>12386215
Same here.
>>12386305
Cringe. No one stops you from pursuing what you want.

>>12386524
Depends on course. For thesis work you will always have a professor who knows exactly who you are (the academic rank professor, not the way Americans use it as a synonym for teacher or lecturer)

I've taken courses that had 10 students and courses that had 200 both at graduate level.

>>12386332
>based catholic platonist
based

>>12385657
But it's not.

>>12386524
You have never taken a 300+ level class.

>>12386516
Undervalued.

>>12385597
>thinks the gender gap is acceptable
It is because it reflects differing interests. Also stem isnt homogenous. E.g. engineering disciplines vs biological sciences have vastly differing gender ratios

>>12386317
It can be fun.

Engineering student. I feel my soul dying every fucking day. School isn't too bad but I want to be a psychologist. Should I get my degree in something I have no passion for or fight my parents and change my major. I'll have to get a PhD to be a psychologist though

>>12386591
<:)

>>12386653
If you're too neutered to disobey your parents, then it's too late for you

>>12385597

I didn't think it was possible for an OP to be pure cope.

>>12386709
I disobey my parents frequently though

>>12386442
>>12386494

I like the idea that this cunt has been imitated. either way, stop posting and go away.

Anarchism is impossible due to human nature. Do you know that? Do not bother to reply.

>>12385657
>Not having to walk 5km for a bucket of water is pretty great desu
no it isn't.

>>12386305
the best and most solid philosophy over the ages was conceived and assembled by doers, often with quantitative background and real-world experience, not by virgin theorists closed in ivory towers
you are overstating the impact of pure humanities venture and understating the potential your background gave you in having strong analytical mind to filter out quickly mountains of bullshit pseudointelectual philosophy/lit from the ones containing timeless merit in wisdom.
study pic related

>>12386719
No. I have masters in psych and there are no entry jobs. It is also a dying field because capitalism doesnt value mental health and if your country is declining its going to be worse. Unless you have network opportunity its better to go psychiatry route or else you end up in retail working with retards in literal sense.

>>12386756
>Taleb
Cringe & go back.

>>12386653
finish your study, read lit and write pop science books and become a journalist or speaker

the Chad Science major rules over tech and humanities virgins with an iron but fair fist

>>12386524
specialist undergrads can be very tight nit

>>12386780
>Science major
>rules
Enjoy being an underpaid postrgrad slave and your life amounting to a few 'et al's in papers no one reads.

>>12386792
no, those are virgin science majors

>>12386765
I thought if I get a phd I can do a private practice? Isn't a phd required to get a good job as a psychologist?

>>12386637
true. I studied pharmacy where there is 90% females and I bathed in pussy. Roasties now are in pharmacy store, developing varicose veins from 8h/day standing on their feet, while I learned some prigramming and math on the side during my pharmacy university studies and now I am chilling in american big pharma industrial R&D mathematical modeling job working with PhD's from MIT and getting paid more than sofware developers for applying philosophy and risk engineering ideas from based Nassim Taleb to developing vaccine trials and anticancer drugs. Plus I learned to apply Taleb ideas in my trading strategies on my brokerage account.

Now tell me /lit/, which one of your virgin theoretical philosophers helped you land a based job where you are saving lives by thousands, paid top dollar and be able to grow your wealth by trading based on same philosophies from the same philosopher?

>>12386796
If you get a phd there is a chance you will be unemployable because overqualified for anything. Only get phd in psych if you have connections or know you can get a job otherwise you will have to suicide. I wanted to do that but I saw phd is about nepotism. Job openings are very few and unless you are genius dont bother. You need to have volunteer experience that are hard to get, need to be published in journals which is nearly impossible, need to attend conferences and have superb useful diploma thesis. You should also know statistics to higher degree because they require it although most teachers will not give you this knowledge so you have to self study it as I found too late for myself.

You absolutely need connections and work on all the above and then you accept you will have lower wages than any engineering position. It may be even more stressful.

What do you mean about private practice? If you mean psychotherapy then you need to get licence which can take years and costs a lot and then it is like a business that most fail.

>>12386765
>psychology
>dying field
I wonder why, praise the kek
also:https://medium.com/incerto/iq-is-largely-a-pseudoscientific-swindle-f131c101ba39
psych anon, you can always change and take a real job

>>12386415
>>12386649
But not if it's your job. I have two programmers as friends who love programming and do it in their free time but absolutely hate going to work.

>>12386780
>science major
At least the usefulness of the work accomplished by tech majors is immediately apparent, and humanities majors might have interesting literary output. Science dorks clog up arXiv with unintelligible garbage that is of no real use and an incredibly dull read.

>>12386811
This. I studied philology and quantum computing on the side during my neurobiology degree and now I'm 6'5 and make 300k as a chef at Wendy's with my foot long cock

>>12386765
What country?

>>12386765
Do you live in a country with a fucked up health care system? In my country, psychotherapy gets paid for you by the state and hence almost everyone with even the faintest mental problems wants to go to therapy, which is why you have to wait for literal months until you get a place. Therefore we have a constant need for new (clinical) psychologists and it's almost impossible to not find a job in this field.

>>12386844
>that is of no real use

>>12386836
I cant change. It takes 5 years to get masters in europe here so I spent that time doing it. I dont have dept or anything but it would be delusional to believe I have any chance of getting career in anything as a 28 with this background. Outside of wageslave that requires high school diploma I dont have much free time or money to get out of this. I was never good at tech related fields like programming so I cant go that route. This is the most I can do as tech and medicine is out of reach for me.

Besides IQ is not pseudoscience. IQ is used mostly for diagnosing children and for differential diagnosis in many areas. Saying it is useless is ignorant and makes wonder if that guy ever found out where it is being used and why instead of trying to point criticism of it. Doesnt matter really what that thing says, they will continue using it anyway because it works. I have administred IQ tests before and dont know what we would be doing if we couldnt use them for diagnosing children. Probably some guess work which would be even more unscientific.

At least they aren't flipping burgers at mcdonalds for a living

>>12386857
I do live in post communist central europe. Psychotherapy requires 5 year degree which I have but they upped it that you only can get licence after you finish. I wanted to but it costs thousands of euros and take 3-4 more years and friday and thursdays off which noone can afford for that long. THere is like no therapists left except the rich now so people wait half a year for it. But there isnt much demand because people dont value it and we are a backwards nation that is sick, overworked and dying.

>>12386866
>post communist central europe
which one?
I'm from slovakia, working in prague

>>12386866
That sucks, anon, I'm sorry. But don't discourage people who want to become psychologists (unless they live in your country) based on your experiences which are apparently due to your country being a shithole in general and not because of your field specifically. Plus, psychotherapy isn't the only route to go, I/O psychology, for instance, becomes more and more important. My based country passed a law a few years ago which requires every company with a certain size to be evaluated by I/O psychologists every x years.

>>12386847
talebanon here, I am not larping

>>12386866
there are other ways to get into psychology than just studying a degree, anon. I think it's a big meme that "getting a degree = what you do with your life", because it doesnt have to be.

maybe you could keep studying engineering and get work through that, but take up some amateur psychology study and look into things like psychology seminars, psychology meeting groups, etc.? I myself attended a "philosophy of mind" workshop that ended up being run by a group of people who were looking to change the way psychology was being operated and were looking for more people to get involved, so other avenues do exist.

>>12386882
Thats great. My country doesnt even know what I/O psych is. I hope we all die out here.

>>12386882
>psycholophasters
fucking rent-seeking scum

>>12386888
I already graduated. I cant afford engineering anymore. I basically am senteced to life of retail now.

>>12386897
Oh my bad, I thought you were the guy studying engineering

>>12386862
do not worry. if you are any good at psychology, you should excell as used-car salesman or trader and sky is your limit, as they are paid by performance.

>>12386890
>>12386897
I'm interested, which post-communist country do you live in?

>>12386906
France

>>12386908
But it's not post :^)

>>12386201

t. not an argument

>>12386524
90% of my professors knew me by name. You're just an anti-social piece of shit.

>>12386720
>anarchy is impossible due to human nature
What the actual fuck are you talking about? Anarchy IS human nature; a natural state that we evolved in and could go back to at any point. Just because there were tribes doesn't mean it wasn't anarchy; anarchy just means no state you dumb fuck.

>>12386201
Barring anprim digressions, the internet is a good invention. The iPhone is without exception shit.

>>12385597
I love literature. All my life I've loved movies and books and music. I try to read and write for 4 hours every day. I exercise for about an hour each day on my stationary bike, always while watching a film. Art is the most important thing a civilization can create, not technology, which is only useful insofar as it allows you to access and create art.

I also study CS and despise nearly everybody in my program. Smug Marvel movie fans high fiving themselves for being deracinated consumers who dream of working for some tech monopoly and living in a gentrified city indistinguishable from any other. But in bugworld there aren't many other options for schizotypal loners who don't attend elite schools. I don't want to be working in retail or manual labor w/o health insurance when I'm in my 30s and I have a lot of trouble socializing, so this path is the most amenable to my goals and temperament

The material itself is mostly just donkey work puzzle solving and of minor consequence to me. Sometimes it's interesting, often it's useful, but ultimately I only see it as a means to an end (financial independence + a job I can tolerate + the ability to make art, which is much easier in a lower middle class lifestyle than as a warehouse employee/working poor). I've lasted this long because the coursework is relatively easy compared to other STEM majors and there is some beauty and intelligence in it

Personally I don't care much about designing a more convenient way to slurp corn syrup down your gullet or creating a more pleasurable self-driving dildo. I'm somewhat sympathetic to radical Luddite views like those of Linkola and the Unabomber.

Unless you're studying a pure science like physics or mathematics for the sake of knowledge and discovery, which is admirable, I think you should be ashamed to study STEM. As for everybody else, it generally means you're a domesticated mediocrity who has submitted to the system.

>>12385597
You can use heideggers argument about the misinterpretation of phusis as natural order instead of Being. A lot of scientist dismiss philosophy as outdated because it use to be about natural sciences and thus science is now all we need. By using that you can reopen it as philosophy is for understanding humans and their place.

one of the most pretentious threads this board has seen recently

>>12387191
studying biophysics because want stimulation and knowledge about living systems, you’re really railing against engineers, cs faggots and doctors or industry shills/lab insects.

>>12386765
Are you serious? Literally every america is on drugs prescribed by their shrink. Open a clinic and listen to stupid corporate drones for few years then hire interns to do it and make 500k a year.

>>12387191
You consider yourself an ashamed, submissive domestic mediocrity?

>>12386653
why do you need your parents' permission to change your major?

>>12385597
The collapse of the neoliberal globalist world order desu.

>>12387213
sounds pretty gud

>>12386215

What do you read? most maybe but probably not all

>>12387213
I won't deny that. There are plenty of people sincerely interested in their course of study and I have tremendous respect for them. But for the majority of STEM students (including myself), it's merely a means to an end in a post-industrial economy. I will never be much more than an average programmer, but perhaps I can someday become a good writer

>>12387223
Yes. But my caveat is that I believe the only way for oversensitive loners like me to escape bugworld mediocrity is to embrace it. The more you resist bugworld, the more it sublimates you into itself. Those who are most subject to bugworld rule are not necessarily tech insects such as myself but those who opted for the Gen X/boomer fantasy of the rebel artist-hero. The 99% of them who don't achieve instant success become struggling manual laborers, retail employees, teachers, pink and blue collar workers, lower grade middle managers. Victims of the lash of capitalism, suddenly without opportunity to pursue their "hobbies" (real interests) because they are now forced to compete night and day for scraps just to survive

By reluctantly submitting to the mediocrity of the system, I am permitted a career that allows me the leisure time and salary to escape it.

>le i study STEM but am also really cultured
fuck off, you wouldn't post here if you were cultured

>>12387312
wagie CS is far more dehumanising than manual labor and trades, honestly

>>12387318
I think it's a matter of personal temperament. From what I've read, manual labor and trades typically have poor work-life balances and leave you physically exhausted at the end of the day. It's hard to focus on writing and reading when you're an electrician who makes good money but also regularly has 60+ hour work weeks.

Software engineers and web devs seem to have some of the best work-life balances of any career. Or at least they have some of the best opportunities to find jobs which offer a good work-life balance (it varies company to company, job to job). An excellent work-life balance is really what I consider humane

>>12387313
>menstrual studies major is assblasted once more
Stop shitposting or no tips for your again.

>>12387370
When I was working 12 hour days as a shit kicker, work sort of became my life. But it wasn't in a bad way, I enjoyed it. Out with the boys all day getting shit done. I think this is the way most men are meant to live. I would literally go insane working in an air-conditioned building with the sort of people you find in air conditioned buildings

>>12386338
bolano, borges, murakami, knausgaard

>>12387413
all shit for plebs and your mom is a fag

>>12386653
Get a degree. This should be the goal. Always remember that you are not bound to it.

>>12386653
The switch isn't worth it in the US, but in parts of Europe it would be.

They are useful retards building golden cages of technological doom
They are ok in my book

>>12386966
>directly contribute to the output of STEM occupations
>dude just because I use your work on a daily basis doesn't mean its important lol

>>12387473

>>12385601
This
I am from a steam formation, working in a job that I love (physicist) and I've read more of the canon than most retards here

>>12386653
Psychology fuckin blows kid, don't fall for the meme.

>>12387491
This
t. Psychology major working on HR

>>12385597
>Not aspiring to be a renaissance man
Never going to make it

>>12386186
>stem major helps the world than a humanities major.
>hurr does that mean mah iphone?
This as got to be a parody. Out of all the shit you can pick on that "stem" has done, you cherry pick the shitty iphone just so you can bash it easily with "muh west declining into shallowness". The same way iliterate stem students associate literature with harry potter bullshit, the pretentious humanities students also associate stem with iphones and instagrams, which shows a complete lack of understanding from both sides.

>>12386317
Many people take real enjoyment from programming. Computer science and electrical engineering are probably the best courses for someone who wants to know how the "modern" world works in terms of phisics, and computer wise.
Comp sci has been getting a bit of a bad press lately because it is so easy to find good paying jobs with it so it attracts people that dont even like it and are only in it for the money.
Im taking computional and electrical engineering and despite all that i still read a lot in my free time. I pretty much dont get the "stem has no soul" meme from humanity posters here, i've assisted some law, philosophy and psicology classes with my friends just for the curiosity and i was impressed to find out that even with much less free time compared to them, i still read more and know more literature than 95% of the students there, like more than a half dont even read anything at all.

>>12386765
>capitalism doesnt value mental health and if your country is declining.
Lol. If that is by any means true then more psicologists arent going to help revert that in anyway.
Not to mention that many of the times their "studies" and "experiments" are super poorly done and used to either push some shitty agenda.
Psicology is a meme dregee that was destroyed by incopetence, the only worse case i can find is probably jornalism.

>>12387312
Have you ever considered combining computer programming with art?