/lit/ - Literature

>>12336494
the bible is pretty interesting no matter what you believe

>>12336521
Not really. Most of the ideas were stolen from somewhere else.

Oh is this the bizarro /lit/ thread?

>Now the best relation to our spiritual home is to be near enough to love it. But the next best is to be far enough away not to hate it. It is the contention of these pages that while the best judge of Christianity is a Christian, the next best judge would be something more like a Confucian. The worst judge of all is the man now most ready with his judgements; the ill-educated Christian turning gradually into the ill-tempered agnostic, entangled in the end of a feud of which he never understood the beginning, blighted with a sort of hereditary boredom with he knows not what, and already weary of hearing what he has never heard.

>>12336521
The old testament is better written than the new one. Change my mind.

>>12336544
You read neither Hebrew, koine nor Aramaic

>>12336536
christian larpers are unironically the new soi. the whole trad movement is basically the inverse of trannys going full Mao. two sides of one reactionary coin.

>>12336535
That doesn't make it not interesting

>>12336550
It's almost like we are feeling the consequences of leaving God and want to go back.

>>12336535
Like what?

>>12336550
People who sperg out about capitalism and people who sperg out about modern decadence or whatever both have legitimate grievances. obviously the larping is ridiculous, but it's understandable why people become this way

>>12336494
The Koran is better

>>12336550
>both sides are equally bad!

>>12336550
>both sides are the same!

>>12336612
why do you guys always post this when somebody points out similarities between opposites? I also see people post 'le enlightened centrist' in response

pointing out similarities does not mean you're saying theyre the same or that the right answer is in the middle

>>12336564
even jesus would pull the word out of retirement for this one

yikes!

>>12336569
Mesopotamia for the OT and Greece for the NT

>>12336621
Yes, they are, at least when it comes to obnoxious posting.

>>12336641
Which Greek texts are like the NT?

>>12336624
because the 'similarities' he's pointing out are completely ridiculous. christian traditionalism is some kind of conservative equivalent to transgender maoists? its nonsense.

>>12336646
*ONLY when it comes to obnoxious posting

>>12336641
I mean what ideas

>give the other cheek
>all humans are equal
>the meek will inherit
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA, believing in christianity is at the same level as playing lotto, only lowbrow retards do.

>>12336494
>I love the bible!
>stupid degenerates!
>atheists are so dumb!

yeah, I’m a Christian, you got a problem with that? I used to be a sinner like you but 2 years ago I found GOD. In my teens I would laugh at creationists; I would always tell my grandma that I didn’t want to go to mass; I was agnostic but not like r/Atheism. But when I GREW UP and became a man, I realised I needed to put childish things away (1 Corinthians 13:11). Why is that? Because I realized that we need Christianity to SAVE THE WEST. After I voted Trump in the 2016 election I decided to go to church again. I knew that I would find a QT pure Christian GF who I could lose my virginity to (I haven’t lost it yet because I’m saving myself for marriage, like God intended). I haven’t found her yet, but like Job I will pray and have faith in God. Then I saw Jordan Peterson talking about Christianity and I was hooked! (I don’t like him anymore though, he’s a fake Christian). I watched all his videos on the bible and realised how God reveals himself in many ways. I was on /pol/ (came from r/The_Donald during the election but I hate redditors now) Christian General and I saw /lit/ chart which had The Bible and I KNEW I found my people. Every day I see THE WEST falling because we gave up our FAITH. Well, the new Christian intellectuals are coming; We are the sons of the Crusaders and we shall not recoil before the sons of Voltaire! (Candide was shit, so is Nietzsche (haven’t read either of them)). /lit/ introduced me to Kierkegaard and I became a KNIGHT OF FAITH, so now I know that I just gotta believe and that’s TRUE bravery. I read DANTE and DOSTOEVSKY and I saw the beauty of God and true art. I’m a proud Catholic (Protestants are heretics) but I hate Pope Francis, he’s a heretic and isn’t MY Pope. /lit/ is a Christian board, and I know that if I just keep recommending the Bible, telling people to go to church, and making threads about how great God is, I will finally be able to sincerely believe in God and distract myself from the gnawing feeling that I’m a fraud. Faith ain’t easy.

>>12336569
Like the story of a Messiah who is a god who takes a human form.

>>12336724
who sacrifices himself for the human race and teaches universal mercy and forgiveness? Because that would be the central point of the NT

>>12336638
Cringe.

Oh my g*sh, I fre*king LOVE the Bible! Especially is the original Latin!

>>12336494
you niggers really ran this meme into the ground didn't you

AY MA LOOK AT ME IM SHITPOSTIN OVA HEEEEEAAA

>>12336733
>cringe
Yikes!

>>12336746
Oof

>>12336724
Can you name the particular stories in which this appears?

>>12336732
Andient mythology is filled with gods who sacrificed themselves for the better of mankind. Nothing new there.

>>12336764
Name the specific stories

>>12336764
So name some gods that do that, and are also the physical incarnation of the one and only omnipotent God, because i dont think it exists

>>12336494
>>look at me! I can only copy other people's memes because I Have no creativity!
The absolute state of the modern left.

>>12336684
based

>>12336494
>>12336521
>>12336535
uhm I'm not religious but yes the bible is extremely interesting.

Only made more interesting by the dead sea scrolls which are dated as 1-4th AD and obviously came from the same source material. Some of it is word for word in the bible. I would love to see what the Vatican has locked away.

>>12336668
You are supposed to understand these passages as paradoxes. You need to fight to survive, yet you should give the other cheek. Humans are most obviously different, yet they are equal. Strength prevails, yet the meek shall inherit. Only for brainlets that read the Bible as a book of empirical statements does it become worthless.

>>12336771
lmao, gettem'

>>12336794
i dont think there's any paradox at all considering the "my kingdom is not of this world'' aspect to it all. You don't win on earth, but in heaven

>>12336799
>tfw can't name a single story/myth

>>12336791
Not to mention the nag hammadi library

>>12336621
what country are you from? in most places, inverse does not mean same

>>12336801
I don't want to larp as a Christian so of course I don't believe it to be a word of God in any form or way, but whatever psychological, philosophic and existential points can be extracted from it I honestly believe to be necessary for the very existence of a human as we, in the western civilization, usually define a human.

>>12336649
they are both an ideological form of reaction to the same set of issues, obviously there are similarities

>>12336813
if he really did mean 'inverse' instead of 'same' (he didn't) then his point is still empty

>>12336822
don't tell me what I meant faggot, I know exactly what the word inverse means that's why I used it.

>>12336820
its only in the vaguest way that 'tranny maoists' and hard leftists are responding to the same issues as traditionalists

>>12336819
>western civilization
AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHA, lowbrow.

>>12336841
Are you denying the existence of western civilization because this is an extremely brainlet position that you couldn't defend for more than a post or two

>>12336843
I'm denying the existence of spooks.

>>12336850
yeah it's not a spook it's an economic-social-technological-geographic reality
im not even going to bother

>>12336854
>economics
>social
>geographic
>>>>>>>>>>>reality

>>12336838
you might think that but all that means is that you probably fall in one of those camps

>>12336850
You can't. Denying the existence of spooks is a spook.

>>12336857
>I have zero stake in anything
>so I dont care about these things

Does this sum up spook posters?

>>12336861
My feet is real, my rights are spooks.

>>12336867
>having a spook
>anon think he has a stake in anything
Lmao, not even in the play pretend you have power my friend.

>>12336876
>your country collapses and you get murdered by roving warlords
At least he didnt believe in the spook of nationhood lmao

>>12336494
Imagine hating the most time-tested and popular stories, accounts, and letters ever written just because you are upset that people want to discuss something popular on your niche imageboard.

>>12336890
>literally spooked by his spooks

>>12336697
Can the original genius behind this pasta please come forward and claim your crown? Such a wonderfully encapsulating commentary on the ChristLARPer phenomena, squeezed into so few words.

>>12336858
not really

>>12336892
Imagine hating lotto the most time tested and popular game ever made.

>>12336697
christposting started in like 2013 with the original nrx crowd and they support divine right monarchy not Trump

Alright Im leaving this board and shutting down my computer for good

>>12336914
See you tomorrow

keep posting TK threads and telling everyone that anti-tech is possible
I'm done with computers
it's been a good ride /lit/ thank you guys, the least worst place on the internet

Like if you love the Bible
RT if you’re a dirty atheist

>>12336544
I dunno about better written but definitely more compelling, honest, and worthwhile

kuso thread

>>12337005
t. Jew

>>12336771
Read up on Zoroastrianism, specifically Mithra.

>>12337112
Just read the Wikipedia page and saw no similarities. He's only mentioned in the zoroastrian texts once.

>>12336494
Soibois are secular
This is shit tier bait thread

>>12337112
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muM7Uk40iRE

>>12336771
Odin was crucified on a tree and stuck with a spear. Dionysus was also crucified in some stories, either on a tree or a ship mast

I don't understand the point of the Bible. I've been doing daily readings since the beginning of the year, and all I've gotten out of it is that Good is a petty jackass who gets pissy if you don't do exactly what He wants you to do. Is this entire book like this or does it actually have a point to it?

>>12337188
it's because he's an omniscient God, you're supposed to listen to him

>>12337188
>since the beginning of the year
3 days? how did you ever manage

>>12336638
What are you even trying to say here? That Jesus would take your side against the fact that people are returning to faith?

>>12337192

Does it tell me why at any point? Is it because He will throw a temper tantrum if I don't? Do I need to act like He's an autistic child? That's how He's been acting so far.

>>12337256
It’s because he made you, so he can do with you what he wants. That’s literally his reason. See Romans 9.

>>12336791
i fucking hated that anime so fucking much

>>12337258

So yeah, autism.

>>12337256
because he knows everything and you know dick

>>12337188
it’s a compilation of jams, not a concert, you silly bitch. if you include the new testament in your bible reading then our guy God tries so hard to win over his tsundere waifu humanity but instead we murder him. pretty rad meta arc, desu, senpai.

>>12337256
Yes that is the entire point of the New Testament, read it first.

>>12337302
Is this going to be like me reading the Bhagavad Gita last year where I literally get nothing out of it?

>>12337256
why are you dissing /our guy/ God when humanity needs three separate covenants and three and a half if you include the ones Moses autistically smashed because we were having a good time with our golden bull pop idol.

>>12337178
It was a pretty popular form of execution back then

>>12337316
you don’t read holy books to autistically collect factoids, you do it to understand the culture that created them. with that understanding you unlock a lot of interesting knowledge about nation building, anthropology, storytelling, psychology, the bronze age mindset, warfare, the development of humanitarianism, law, diplomacy.

how can you be such an impossible smooth brain?

>>12337344

Then both books have overwhelming successes. The Bhavagad Gita perfectly explains why India is largely a shithole, and the Bible perfectly explains why humanity is incredibly petty. It all makes sense now. Thanks for clearing that up.

>>12337378
>peanut-brain-wojak.jpeg

just stop reading altogether

>>12337378
The God of the OT is incredibly good to his people though, especially compared to other gods of the ancient middle east. You need to realize how incredibly commonplace things like genecide were for people back then, it should come as no surprise that such things are depicted in the OT

>>12337387

Because I don't agree that these books have any good points to them? I'm supposed to just go along with everything? No, if we have huge parts of the species becoming slaves to these bullshit ideologies, they need to have some compelling reason why, which the Gita doesn't and the Bible so far is more of the same.

>>12337415
you need to be 18 years of age to post on 4chan

>>12337415
No you just need to make some attempt to appreciate anything at all beyond a surface level skimming and actually try to understand the people who wrote it

>>12337396

But we are not talking about back then, we are talking about now. If God was to kill 99.99% of the species off now like he did back in the story of Noah, would you still see him as this great and mercyful being, or would you see him as the petty, insecure jackass he actually is. Unlike others, I will not forgive the crimes if the past.

>>12337429

I'm 33.

>>12337435

That's what I'm trying to do, but when all those people do is come across as slaves who can't think for themselves, how am I supposed to view that as being anything but weak apologists.

>>12337446
>I will no forgive God

Good luck with that, Job.

>>12337454
33, and with what disabilities?

>>12336494
Shut up racist incel!

Why do athiests types read the bible literally?

>>12336697
Well made pasta ruined by flagrant overuse

Here's your god Christians

>>12337470
Because they can't attack it as easily if they have to read it according to tradition and authority.

>>12337446
Well it was written by ancient people so you must look at it from their point of view. I obviously don't care much for killing but I'm not going to let any silly emotional reactions to things that offend my personal sensibilities get in the way of studying a fascinating group of writings (as I understand these sensibilities to simply be the result of social conditioning anyway)

>>12337470
To pick out and misquote out of context passages to impress their friends?

>>12337478
How will we ever recover?

I gave up on leviticus and numbers all that shit about jewish laws and sacred rituals were awful. Does it get better?

>>12337470
They're from the American south (or someplace filled with religious fundamentalists)

>>12337503
don’t like reading law and priestly texts? what are you some sort of NORMIE??

>>12337503
If you are Jewish, no. If not then yes it gets better (if by that you mean more interesting)

>>12337478
with a cawk like that, why shouldn't we worship him desupai? not a christian desu, but this image gives me pause, and makes me reconsider my decision.

>>12337503
Reading the Bible straight through is probably overly ambitious for someone reading scripture for the first time. I'd start with:
Genesis
Exodus
Judges
Kings
Samuel
Isaiah
Jonah
Job
Ecclesiastes
Song of Solomon
Proverbs
Pslams
Matthew
Mark
Luke
John
Roman's
Corinthians
Revelation

>>12337478
the original Chad

>>12336521
Oh yeah, those pages upon pages of repeated genealogies that appear multiple times in every book sure are interesting

>>12337503
Yeah the legal books are obviously pretty boring to us these day but still extremely important to the Jews for obvious reasons. It's okay to skim through those parts, I suppose. There are plenty of interesting books in the OT after that.

>>12337544
They're not that long and it's kind of cool to be able to keep track of where the important figures came from

>>12337544
when you’re building the direct lineage between the first man and your people you have to be kind of insistent about it.

>>12336494
cringe

>>12337065
>>12337005
t. Nietzsche

http://www.pekingduck.org/2005/12/quote-of-the-day-friedrich-nietzsche-on-the-bible/

>>12337515
>with a cawk like that, why shouldn't we worship him desupai?

>>12337503
Those books suddenly become really interesting when you realize almost every book in the Bible references the laws they contain and that these laws are later used as symbols for further developments in Jewish and Christian theology.
You’ll never understand why Rebecca was able to scare people away from finding stolen idols by sitting on them while on her period until you realize that she and everything she touched was impure according to Levitical law. You’ll never understand how and why Christ’s sacrifice worked until you understand that it’s a mirroring of Jewish ritual sacrifice. You’ll never understand what Christ means when he calls himself “high priest” until you learn about the priest’s functions in Leviticus and Exodus.
Those books are the key to understanding a lot of the bible

>>12337470
Because it’s harder to dismiss when you read it like actual literature

>>12337446
>If God was to kill 99.99% of the species off now like he did back in the story of Noah, would you still see him as this great and mercyful being
Yeah i’d be fine with this desu
stop pretending you give a shit if some animals and brown people die

>>12336535
you mean like every book?

>>12336697
I was one of these cringy nrx larpers, so I decided to go to church to 'save the West'. However what I found was the exact opposite of what I expected, and I had a genuine conversion and gave up all of my far right ideas. Now I receive communion every Sunday from a black female priest and have never been happier.

Atheists will simultaneously that the earth is an infinitesimal speck with no value that no God would actually care about while maintaining that God would be evil if he had actually ordered the slaughter of so many canaanites. There isn’t a single popular Atheist argument that isn’t contradicted by avotger popular Atheist argument and that’s why nobody respects them. They would be easier to take seriously if they were consistent.

>>12337674
Yeah, they constantly change their theories even though they are supposedly set rules, unlike christianity that required years of intense studies they just pull things out of their ass and say that "it requires faith".

>>12337674
I think the issue is that a god would create sentient beings, make them deeply flawed and then demand from them their devotion and belief in it while simultaneously deceiving and tormenting them, only to further condemn those who lacked a propensity for delusion. The part about god not caring about Earth is in regards to a hypothetical higher being, non-specific to any belief of an interventionist being. The gods of the Abrahamic faiths are obsessive at best and petty at worst.

Not an atheist, to be clear. I'm far closer to agnosticism but would hope we could discuss the arguments that are actually being made.

>>12337776

The basic point I've been trying to make this entire time. Thanks for articulating it better than I could ever hope to.

>>12337478
Uhm sweetie ancient and modern Israeli's worship Baphomet which is what is shown in that pic

>>12337776
>I think the issue is that a god would create sentient beings, make them deeply flawed

No, they were not flawed when first created.

>and then demand from them their devotion and belief

He demanded obedience the same way parents demand obedience of their children.

>simultaneously deceiving and tormenting them, only to further condemn those who lacked a propensity for delusion.

Can you point to something specific?

>>12337859
the ability to become flawed is a flaw. the need to have to parent his creation is a flaw. honestly I'm not even an atheist but I can't stand this handwaving about theology.

>>12337877
There cannot be sentience without freedom.

>>12337901
there also cannot be evil without freedom as well. why is the creation of sentience worth the creation of suffering?

>>12337916
Maybe one day you'll find out. But it must be worth it if God decided it was.

>>12337922
see this isn't theology, it's handwaving. I'm not interested in jerking myself off for having faith, especially not on a public image board. have some decency anon.

>>12337930
I've already followed the theological arguments to the existence of God. God, who has no potentiality, is perfect. Therefore he is good. Therefore his decisions, if they can be called such, are also good.

>>12337953

>Genocide
>Good

Pick one.

>>12337967
That's on us, not God.

>>12337974
He is supposedly benevolent, omnicient, and omnipotent. if that is true, either God does nothing to stop it, or he is unaware of it, or he cannot stop it. are you sure you followed the theological arguments anon? theodicy is pretty basic...

>>12337984
the world is of God; God is not of the world. You're confusing the creation with the creator.

>>12337974

No human has killed 99.99% of the species in one shot. Quit be a God apologist.

>>12337984
>He is supposedly benevolent, omnicient, and omnipotent. if that is true, either God does nothing to stop it, or he is unaware of it, or he cannot stop it. are you sure you followed the theological arguments anon? theodicy is pretty basic...

Did you forget the part about human agency?

>>12337995
>Taking the old testament literally

>pick up the bible
>”huh, I might give this a go”
>casual close familial incest within 10 pages

How do we justify this one boiz

>>12338011
Post verse or gtfo

>>12338018
The first two people were Adam and Eve, right? Meaning that everyone came from them. Where did Cain and Abel’s wives come from? The only explanation is Adam and Eve.

>>12337997
he created human agency, this is literally the whole point anon. there would be no such thing as evil if God didn't create agency, so why create agency? read Augustine's On Free Choice of the Will

>>12338004

So, then tell me what I'm supposed to get out of a story of a supposedly benevolent entity murder the majority of the species?

>>12338025
You shouldn't comment on books you haven't read, friendo. Read Genesis.

>>12338018
It was right at the beginning where it was
>a is the son of b
>b is the son c
>x is the father of y

Google says it’s probably Genesis 19:30–38 I’m talking about

>>12337974
>God's all powerful his plan is the ultimate plan
>God is all good
>everything is because of God
>unless it's bad then he didn't do it lol
>but he let it happen because we r free :^)

>>12338025
Oi don’t steal my chain

>>12337178
>Odin was crucified on a tree and stuck with a spear.
More than likely inspired by the Christ story itself rather than the other way round
>Dionysus was also crucified in some stories, either on a tree or a ship mast
This is untrue.

>>12338029
it was an explanation of the world wide flood we had as seen through the eyes of a bronze age priest. in doing so, he could tell his people that they survived because they were special and holy and chosen. Which is kind of important for morale, given that hard times were guaranteed and you need to give people purpose, partially so they don't abandon the tribe.

Most of the problems itt are due to christians teaching the Bible in an incorrect or weird way. Why is this?

>>12338040
I think you're talking about when Lot's daughters rape him after he passes out from the wine they give him. This is portrayed as obvious impermissible behavior in the story.

>>12338028
>he created human agency, this is literally the whole point anon. there would be no such thing as evil if God didn't create agency, so why create agency? read Augustine's On Free Choice of the Will

God created agency, not the abuse of agency. God, who is good, knows whether the creation of agency is worth it. Apparently it is.

>>12338053
>More than likely inspired by the Christ story itself
I never claimed one was influenced by the other, do you have sources for that?

>>12336535
So? Roman myth is just Greek myth, Norse mythology is pretty similar to the two previous. Buddhism is just Hinduism with one dude. Japanese and Korean shit is just a copy of Chinese. Sausage sizzles are banning onions in my buns.

>>12338074
"Laughs in Calvinist"
How much of the NT do you have to ignore to come up with an idea like Christianity being compatible with free will

>>12338043
>God's all powerful his plan is the ultimate plan
>God is all good
>everything is because of God
In a hierarchical sense, not a linear sense. Some things are because we chose them to be.
>unless it's bad then he didn't do it lol
Correct. God can do no evil.
>but he let it happen because we r free
Justice will come.

>>12338101

>>12338061
no, part of the problem is uppity little bitches telling people how they should live their lives. atheists believe they have ownership and priority over christians. I'd love to see these cunts pull this shit with muslims, i really would. the reason they don't is because:
1. they don't know any muslims, they have no exposure.
2. they're not encouraged to be critical of muslims in the same way that the west celebrates criticism of christians (above all others.)
3. they know muslims will hold them down and shit in their mouth in front of everyone.

it's a game to them, they get hot over a little power play regarding the logic of story. sad.

>>12338074
>God created agency, not the abuse of agency
he is all powerful and all knowing you retard, do you think it was an oopsie on his part? you are basically admitting, yes, God created evil and let everything bad that has ever happened happen, but idk he's probably got a good reason for it. This is some shit tier theology mate.

>>12338101
Free will and Christianity are fully compatible, become Catholic

>>12337831
Baphomet is not a god retard

>>12338121
first prove Christianity and Catholicism are fully compatable

>>12338101
How much of that Bible, assembled by the tradition and authority of The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, will you pervert in the name of sola scriptura?

>>12338108
what the fuck is he waiting for? Jesus said the end would be within one generation, here we are two millennia later with our finger up our ass

>>12338118
I don't argue with people who resort to name calling. I'll pray for you anon.

>>12338121
He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that,

“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’”

Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

>Inb4 out of context

>>12338134
I really don't have to. I'm not here to explain the full Catechism. Maybe if you have an explicit question related to the compatibility, I could answer you more readily.

>>12338147
Wait, were those actually supposed to be arguments?

>>12338143
He is speaking about the generation that exists once judgement begins. In the future.

>>12338166
Go read your Aristotle and stoics and leave Christianity to the big boys

>>12338142
How ever much you dislike the aesthetics of Calvinism, it is the only absolutely theologically consistent branch of Christianity.

>>12338166
>It's true
>I can prove it
>But I won't
>Checkmate atheists

>>12338118
The way you keep using the word theology is so cringe and sophomoric. You will never understand something you are so hostile towards, fyi.

>>12338154
Free Will has nothing to do with the way God treats us. God is outside of us, he is independent of us. You may treat your friend, your employee, your brother or sister as you wish. But that doesn't mean you override your will with theirs. If you are called by God, then it is your duty to respond to inlike. If you wish not, he discards you.
Fully compatible with free will

>>12336724
Maybe a similar event happened multiple times