/lit/ - Literature

>dismisses this book as a jewish ploy

>>12251929
Marxist thought will never work and is based upon a Utopian belief with no basis in reality.

>>12252110
>Implying all there is to Marx is the communist state.
See, this is what i mean. Fucking burguer didn't even stop to read it.

>Do not read this book my friends. Do not read it for yourself first hand and form your own independent opinion. Read my book "Critique of Culture" and I will tell you what you should think.

>>12251929
Why are marxists such fucking pseuds? I swear the demographic that this book most appeals to is forever in the cursed IQ range of reddit midwits who think they're smarter than they really are.

>>12252110
>forcing le reddit joejack smugsmug

>>12252110
>Utopian
t. Never red a word of Marx or Lenin.
Marxism is the opposite of utopian. It's less idealistic than capitalist realism. There are great reasons to be opposed to it but you've made a boomer-tier post of yourself and you should be ashamed.

>>12252380
Das Kapital is notoriously difficult to comprehend. Reddit pseuds only read the Manifesto.

>>12252116
>Communist state
>Communism
>State

Hmmmmm

>>12252380
Who else but pseuds would feel attracted to Marxism?

>>12252403
what about it?

>>12252110
>Based upon material reality itself
>"no basis in reality"!

"no"

>>12252380
Because everyone else is too dumb to realize we can better society

>>12252403
Communism is achieved through the state which eventually dwindles away

>>12252110
Marx pretty much renounced ideas of communism later in his life and became more cynical. You will find no mention of communism in Kapital.

>>12252400
Most of Karl Marx's political works are based on Thomas More's book UTOPIA. Literal fucking retards saying their ideology isn't based off of a utopian ideology that can't work, even though IT'S BASED ON THE BOOK THAT COINED THE TERM UTOPIA ITSELF.

>>12252380
internet commies don't read Capital

>>12252710
That's because he seen the use and success of capitalism and realized it could work in the end

>>12252665
Karl Marx's thoughts were based heavily off of Thomas More's book, Utopia, which described a nation in the new world on an island without any sort of class difference at all. Where everyone was paid equally for their work, everyone wore the same clothes, there was no individuality, slavery was present and common, and overall wouldn't work in the real world, hence the name, "Utopia" which came from this book and is generally considered a fantasy because of this book.

>>12252714
Why does that matter in anyway? It doesn't effect how the underlying philosophy works.

>>12252723
Yea and that is why he wrote 3 volumea of a scientofic critique of capitalism

>>12252714
pleb

>>12252714
>Anyone who wants to achieve an ideal society is wrong because of this one book

"no"

>>12252714
It was influenced by it but its theories are purely scientific in nature.

>>12252736
Learn to write properly before you enter a board about literature.

>>12252714
>Most of Karl Marx's political works are based on Thomas More's book UTOPIA.
Wrong, he was a vehement opponent of it, BOOMER.
>Literal fucking retards saying their ideology isn't based off of a utopian ideology that can't work, even though
I don't subscribe to Marxist ideology or beliefs. I merely pointed out that you were a retard.
>IT'S BASED ON THE BOOK THAT COINED THE TERM UTOPIA ITSELF.
No, it isn't.

>>12252403
Capitalism is a natural function of society and therefore can only be stopped by force.

>>12252714
>Most of Karl Marx's political works

Most of mrx's work is descriptive of the transition of western countries from feudal to agricultural and to industrial societies, and descriptive accounts of capitalism.

Marx wrote precious little that was prescriptive, including any utopian aspirations.

>>12252400

Marxism was developed in the same milleu as utopian socialism, and very obviously has a utopianism at its core, even and especially though Marx and Engels themselves dismiss same. The historical materialism of the theory is a completely unnecessary and superfluous philosophical superstructure which it was not necessary for them to have put on top of their project, but which Marx felt obliged to do on account of his bullshit philosophical training. Marxism is a utopianism, rightly called such, which pretends that it isn't.

>>12251929

>>12252733
Marxs thougth wasn't "based upon" Thomas More, it developed out of the currents of British economics (Ricardo), French political radicalism (Proudhon) and German philosophy (Feuerbach).
Thomas More was an early critic of the enclosure movement but there was notting in him that would be an influence to Marx beyond his significance as a critically historical self-reflective figure at that historical juncture.

the american style christian culture is pretty disgusting

>>12252779
>Marxism was developed in the same milleu as utopian socialism, and very obviously has a utopianism at its core, even and especially though Marx and Engels themselves dismiss same.
Their goal wasn't the creation of some idealized society.
They saw tension between worker's and factory owners and thought it was going to end in revolution or blood shed. He never claimed what follows would be heaven on Earth (especially later). It was pretty much fuel tension and let the dialectic do its job.
>The historical materialism of the theory is a completely unnecessary and superfluous philosophical superstructure which it was not necessary for them to have put on top of their project, but which Marx felt obliged to do on account of his bullshit philosophical training.
It is needed otherwise, the entire ideology falls apart. This is one reason why Marxism is very limited at the end of the day.
>Marxism is a utopianism, rightly called such, which pretends that it isn't.
No, it is destructive, even anti-utopian. The tools used to effectuate change are dirty, crude. Marxism and by extension Leninism were more concerned the revolution than what followed. The historical inevitability of socialism undercurrent inherent to their works further reinforced this outlook.

>>12251929

Fundamentally it is the most basic shit even if its full elaboration is dense and unwieldy, I don't know why Americans are so dead set on misconstruing it. Feudal lord used to extract from landed peasantry directly, now capitalist extract from itinerant wagie by privileging his share of the price of goods sold. This is better than feudalism, and you can go to Disney World sometimes if you're a wagie in the centers of global capital, but you're still a cuck. Also the dynamics of market exchange lead to crisis.

>>12252828

You might have saved yourself the time and simply typed "nuh-uh". It would have carried equal value as a rebuttal.

>>12252779
By your logic, Ted Kaczynski is a utopian luddite.

>>12252845
I'm opposed to Marxism. Your analysis was incorrect.

>>12252859

At no point was I concerned with whether you were a proponent or detractor of the theory, nor is it directly relevant to the argument. As to your second point, nuh-uh, no u.

>>12252848

Yes.

Why do people enjoy political threads with the same political cliches over and over. It's not even funny.

>>12252828

>It is needed otherwise, the entire ideology falls apart. This is one reason why Marxism is very limited at the end of the day.

I don't think it's "needed" so much as immanent to the logic. It wasn't made up, it was a response to the changes that had already occurred and were still occurring to rationalize why these things were happening. His prediction that capitalism would eventually need to be abandoned due to its contradictions may or may not come true, but "historical materialism" doesn't seem like it even has pretensions of being a precise window into the future. There are plenty of people that look at various problems in capitalist production and social relations and instead predict that it will become some ecological mad max disaster, or a post-fossil fuel decline into authoritarian capitalism/"neo-feudalism", or some Nick Landian sentient capital, or whatever.

>Marxism and by extension Leninism were more concerned the revolution than what followed. The historical inevitability of socialism undercurrent inherent to their works further reinforced this outlook.

This is one reason I don't think historical materialism has to lead any particular way. Lenin also wrote that it isn't an inevitability that capitalism would resolve itself into socialism, and that critiques from groups like left communists of the Bolshevik project should be dispelled on the basis that they were the utopians (I don't remember if he used that word) who believed that really existing socialism wouldn't require active struggle on the part of leftists to see it succeed. Its framing of the unfolding of history can lead you to think certain ways about what is possible, but it's impossible to predict the future.

But just to be clear, I don't ascribe to whatever would be considered doctrinaire Marxist historical materialism. I just think it's a kind of vague framework of a way of thinking about history that was building on other modern thinkers when Marx started describing his view.

The amount of retarded antiMarx shit that teachers meme about is even greater than the retarded "Hitler hated Jews because they KILLED HIS MOM" shit that you eventually learn to be max dumb dumb, but no one has the shitidote to the Marx-themed brainrot.

Fuck I love Nick Land FUCK MMMMM

>>12252923
He's about as utopian as an illegal Mexican immigrant.

>There's no property?
>Then anyone can just *take* *my* stuff?
it's just so tiring

Go establish communism is your own countries and don't bother us with it. I'll wait for the inevitable collaspe

>>12251929
Every Marx thread
>He said this
>No he was really said that other thing
Example:
>He believes in LTV and therefore he was wrong
>No he really was just critiqing LTV as Smith and Ricardo used it
>He wants the government to tax people and give handouts
>No he thinks the government is another facet of capitalist society
>He was a socialist
>He helped capitalists overthrow the nobility
>He was a deluded utopianist
>No, he shat on utopian socialists all the time
>He was a Marxist!
>No he said he wasn't a Marxist

>>12253022
>Das kapital is about communism.
God, why are americans so dumb?

>>12251929
I also got one: works that commies can't possibly comprehend?

any work that pays you for doing something.

>>12253130
Guaranteed this guy is an American

>>12253298
Thank god i'm not.

It appears that my superiority will lead to some controversy.

>>12253037

Marx didn't say that.

>>12252750
This.
>mutts thinking Smith was laisse-faire libertarian

>>12253348
cringe

>>12253037
This is why retards on Reddit try to spam quotes.

>>12253037
maybe if everything you think about Marx seems to be at odds with what Marxists think about Marx, you should read Marx to find out if your thought on his work on accurate.

>>12252673

Uhhh. You can never better society. Human nature. The apocalypse will happen before capitalism ends. I am smarter than you. Back to your drum circle, marijuana, and trannies. Idiot. Let me guess it wasn't real communism. Got you. Annihilated. Taking a screenshot of this for part 747 of my 911 part SJW OWNED WITH LOGICAL FAX compilation. Kill yourself, gommie. XD.

Fucking burgers.

>>12251929

>>12251929

>>12251929

>>12252380
it's an ideology for outliers but a safe one

>>12251929
Communism is thee best ideology and best way to eradicate injustice I'm Hindu but human first Jai CPM Lal salam

>>12256217
The destination of equality is the same philosophy of buddha and karl marx but the way (मार्ग) are so different. Karl marx has told if u want equality fight against exploitation u have to make war(लडाई,युद्ध) Karl marx have not find why this rich people have so attitude and arrogance karl marx have not analyise on this. Now what the buddha has told about equality. Buddha has told for our equality the buddha way his ahinsa means no war.if u want to remove the poor and bring equality for the society. buddha told u have to find out the main reason means (हमे इसके जड तक जाना होगा) in rich people they have arrogance (अमिर होने का घमंड)attitude.if we solve this we can definately bring equality without war. And the buddha not only told he has given the way also. Plz read buddha and karl marx. Karl marx is father of socialism he is great thinker,philospher,historian,econmist.Nobody is better then marx and his theories except Lord Vishnu