/lit/ - Literature

>>12189936
Why the fuck did you jump into Dostoevsky a year into learning a new language. What did you expect?
Watch television and movies in Russian, read easier works, surround yourself in the language before diving into something so complex.

>>12189953
>before diving into something so complex
Dosto is for adolescents

>>12189961
oh look a parrot

>>12189961
Still too difficult for someone who just learned the language

>>12189953
I do all that. I understand the language just fine, it's just vocabulary holes that slow me down. I want to read books to improve though, I was hoping others here (like the ancient greek nerds) could weigh in about the effectiveness of it.

>>12189936
>yчить pyccкий paди Дocтoeвcкoгo
Opy c aнглocaкcoв.

>>12189936
Just started learning Russian two months ago for this very reason!
Any advice/ nice ressources?

>>12189936

I'm a native Russian speaker who has read Dostoevsky in the original Russian.

Unless you have actually lived in the culture, there's no point reading in Russian: you won't pick up on the subtext at all, even if you understand the words and the logic.

Just read it in English, it's honestly fine.

>>12189977
I think the New Penguin Russian Course book is a good place to start, then just read basic things and use Russian internet while compiling word lists on anki (Yesenin's poetry is a good place to start). There's also a free app from language courses.net for iPhone and android that has word lists and drills sorted by theme and frequency.

>>12189973
нe paди Дocтoeвcкoгo в чacтнocти, a pyccкoй литepaтypы в цeлoм. тeбe cмeшнo? paди любoви пиcaтeлeй cтoит yчить любoй язык, ящитaю. aлco, нe cлoжнo дpoчить гpaммaтикy и yвeличить cлoвapьный зaпac, чтoбы читaть. впpoчeм, тpyднo oбщaтьcя c людьми.

>>12189993
What is the point of learning any foreign language then? Damn, you are sapping my motivation man

>>12190034

If you're going to learn a foreign language, you should actually take the time to immerse yourself in the culture for at least a few months.

>>12190056
I disagree. Reading itself immerses you in the culture, I know I'm not going to understand things the way you do and that's fine but I still love the language and I'm autistic so I'm not going to listen to this.

>>12190056
Not everyone has the luxury of being able to travel around the world.

>>12190064
>>12190080

That's fine, but reading a novel in a language is like trying to fill a tank of water with a teaspoon. It's technically better than nothing... but, you know...

There's nothing wrong with NOT going to other countries and learning languages through immersion. But, there's just much more productive things you could be doing. Far be it for me to take away the personal pleasures of others, but I want to disperse any delusions.

>>12189993
>>12190056

Finally, someone with some sense. I really can't understand the hatred for translations in this board other than people wanting to claim psued-cred by struggling through the originals. At this point, any literary works of substance are translated by professional Academics who go through a pain staking review process for publication. The published translations of classic literature are all approved by experts in the field.

You can only appreciate the true nuances of the original if you understand the culture, which you can only attain by living in that area (for at least a year I would say). Good literature is a reflection of culture, which is why cultural understanding is a prereq for appreciating great lit. Simply knowing the language is only half of the key

>>12189973
>пyк

>>12189936
>he fell for the original language meme

>>12189936
start reading children books first

>>12189961
sup nabby hows hell

>>12190187
Yeah, but still, you can't translate poetry, you can't translatevThe Divine Comedy. You can try and make your own creature but the original is the real thing. So, would you prefer to go the party, or would you prefer someone show you a video of it?

>>12189936
Who told you Russian was easy? kek

>learning another language for dosto who's style is mostly unremarkable

>>12190187
A lot of academic translations are bad precisely because they are done by academics though. Too many go for the autistic literal approach which i don't think produces good literature.

>be russian
>lmao at all the retards who dont get to read russian literature in the original sense
>then remember that they probably are like 20 times richer than me and make 10 times more (((((((

>>12190034
HAHA GET FUCKED TRYHARD

>>12190187
Cultural understanding and learning a language go together. Your Japanese will be absolute if you don't understand the culture.
I do see mistakes and liberties taken in translations all the time though and seriously think you overestimate professional translators (though I'm sure most are absolutely trustworthy). I'm not saying I'd necessarily do it better, translating is hard, but I've come across some pretty questionable stuff in the realm of Japanese to English translations. Maybe that doesn't hold true with Russian, I don't know.

>>12189953
Can anyone recommend some good Russian movies/series?

>>12189936
What a shock, another thread on /lit/ devolves into a retard-tier discussion about the merit of translations. Can somebody just answer the question? I have the same trouble in German. If I keep plowing through enough German books will I eventually have the vocabulary to read most works or is it easier to systematically study vocabulary first, then read?

>>12192464
>retard-tier discussion
>unironically asks if memorizing vocab detached from context is a good learning strategy
pepe.jpg

>>12190034
To pick do up girls and that's the only reason
This is why I learned Mandarin and French

The only languages worth learning are Greek and Latin
English is already the only useful language

>>12192352
There are few good series, just stick to film. As for recs, you'd have to be more specific on what kind of movies you're looking for.

>>12189936
I think you should just keep reading and looking up words, even if it sucks at first. I bet even after just two weeks of that you will improve a ton. I took 4 semesters of Latin and still couldn’t really read it, but I really wanted to read the Aeneid fluently, so I just brute forced it with a dictionary on hand. It was excruciating but it worked, took me longer than two weeks but by the last quarter I was breezing through it.

>>12189936
You’ll make it but Dostoevsky is way above your level. Literally listen to Russian radio, watch Russian tv and read simple Russian books. Eventually you’ll build up to it. Also the most improtant thing is to speak the language, try and go to Russia.

Latching onto this thread. How difficult is Dante's Divine Comedy for an Italian beginner?

>>12189971
I learned English reading A.C. Doyle (sherlock) and Roald Dahl through. I didnt understand much of it but I kinda forgot my mother tongue now. I was, admittedly, 11.

>>12189936
Russian troll

>>12189936
You are doing a good job, dont let the autists discourage you. Just remember that Dostoevsky is not exactly the contemporary spoken language and you will sound like an absolute psued if you pick up too many of his habits.

>>12190187
> You can only appreciate the true nuances of the original if you understand the culture, which you can only attain by living in that area

I am quite sure there are millions of Russians who have only seen Tolstoy's and Dostoevsky's works as melodramatic soap operas — if they have read them at all.

Moreover, the idea that modern person from any area can naturally gain insights into how people behaved and thought two hundred years ago without an extensive historical work is false. It's the bane of screen and theater adaptations of the classics, both foreign and native. Say, caring about proper buttonholes on the uniforms is important, but what's the point of that if actors sit like no noble man would sit, and talk like no noble man would talk?

>>12189936
>Fast forward over a year
>>12190187
>for at least a year

I see you two have something in common. A year is nothing.

>>12189953
>Watch television and movies in Russian
Fuck no. The only channel that won't make you puke is “Culture”, and that's just Arte TV for gerontic public.

Seriously, wasting your time on *watching TV*?

>>12192506
moi nigga

>>12189961
>>12189963
Awwwwwwww what a cute parrot!!! uwu
You're such a dexterous parrot to be posting in here :3
Have a seed lil parrot: *gives seed*

>>12189936
OP, don't give up, and don't try to understand every single word, try to infer things from context and enjoy the journey of learning russian and being a witness to the world the author is opening before you!! :D

Russian here, it took me like 5 years to start reading in english with confidence (although I never formally studied it, just browsed the Internet a lot), two years to start reading simple things (like Bible) in latin. Point is, you're a faggot for thinking that a year of study is going to prep you for more than slav version of "Hello, my name is Ivan, I live in St. Petersburg and drink lots of vodka. My life is but a dreadful mistake."

>>12189936
You're a fucking retard and I'm glad you wasted months of your life because you took 4chan memes at face value. Even if you knew all the vocabulary, you wouldn't get even half of the nuances, idioms etc. as >>12189993 said. Learning a language to read certain books is a meme.

>>12190034
To communicate with Russians perhaps? To understand their news, their conversations etc? Hell, even most Russians nowadays would stuggle to read Tolstoy or Dostoevsky and they are natives and will ALWAYS be above you in terms of comprehension of their language.

>>12189936
Rejoice, for you have enough knowledge to learn why Igor has been sinking, and acquire access to biggest gallery of YELLOW MOONS in the universe.

>>12189993
Neither have you lived in the culture of Dostoevsky. The notion that being born in nativity of a certain country entails you with magical means to understand all things pertaining to said country's culture is pathetically arrogant. There are hundreds, if not thousands of RSLs who penetrated the ideas planted within Dostoevsky's prose way deeper than you ever could. Why I'm so sure? Well it's because pretensions aside language is just a tool, an extremely eloborate and complicated one, but still a tool only. Thinking of language as anything more than that is foolish, claiming that only the natives share a "secret" to the truths of language is akin to saying that only japanese people can truly know how to eat sushi and everyone else must be missing something with their taste buds
t. slav who doesn't want to be a gatekeeping faggot

>>12189973
>yчить pyccкий вooбщe
Haхyя вooбщe кoмy-тo нyжeн язык пидopaх, лoл

Oбoccaл хoхлoв.
Пycть хoть тaкaя гopячaя вoдa y них бyдeт.

>>12194714
>Укpaинa
>cyщecтвyeт

So a lot of you seem to be saying a year isn't enough and I shouldn't bother. Do people really take longer to get a grip on a language? I don't see a year being a problem unless you study maybe 3-5 hours a week. I was a student when I picked it up and was putting almost every spare moment into it for a good six months. Now including passive study, I've leveled out to around 2-3 hours a day. It's just a part of my day at this point and talk to russian friends daily, who I understand and who understand me just fine (even though I make mistakes).
>Just read children's books
I have done a bit of that, but this is mostly a meme. You don't come across words like пpeнeбpeжeниe or нищeтa in kids books, which are the kind of words I'm looking up and writing down.
Also I'm not putting everything else on standstill while I read this, I'm still reading articles and memes and watching youtube and stuff so the opportunity cost isnt absolute, it's not one thing or the other.
I wanted advice from people who know what learning a language is like, not from burgerstani upper beginner high school spanish Gods. I think I'm just going to go through with it and keep reading. The way I see it, reading novels in a foreign language is always going to be hard at first and the Russians telling me not to do it are saying my level is irrelevant and that a foreigner won't understand and that's just gay and I don't care.

>>12192352
Master and Margarita from the 2000s. There will be titties

>>12194691
>seething cockhole

>>12194634
>even most Russians nowadays would stuggle to read Tolstoy or Dostoevsky
What are you even on about? They're both mandatory reading in middle and high school respectively, retard.

Pick your favourite (english) book, now re-read it in russian.

>>12194655
You're not a gatekeeping faggot, you're just a brainlet. The point of reading in foreign language is not to "penetrate ideas deeper", it's to be able to appreciate the whole host of minute aesthetic choices and intellectually inconsequential, yet emotionally important details that inevitably get lost in translation. Granted, the other guy is also a brainlet, because nobody ever reads Dosto for his shit prose. Personally I'd say learning a foreign language "just for reading" is only worth the time investment if you really enjoy poetry.

>>12194928
based

I read the Andrew MacAndrew translation of the karamazov brothers and really liked it. Can anyone recommend me the best translation for Crime and Punishment? I'm not knowledgeable at all when it comes to russian lit translations

>>12195645
Ready, Pasternak Slater, McDuff

>>12195729
Ah, thank you, the only recommendation I've gotten before was for the one that was done by that married couple, when I googled it everyone seemed to shit on it. Would you happen to know any for The Idiot as well?

>>12195740
Avsey, McDuff.

>>12195752
Thank you

>>12189936
>Anyone else stuck in upper intermediate language Hell?
Me, with german.

>>12195407
>Americans
>knowing anything about education
Anon, please.

>>12189936
you shouldnt look up every word you should just read and try to understand by context until it becomes fluid, your vocabulary will slowly grow

>>12189993
>>12189993
I lived in southern Russia for a couple years and then took some history / literature classes about Russia afterward. You can't really seperate a language or its literature OR its politics from its accompanying culture. That being said, if you have a good command of the historical culture of the lit you're consuming, muddlibg through pages word by wore in Russian is legitimately fine and you'll get something out of it. But do know that people back then just had a different way of expressing themselves, just like English writers from the 1700s sounded all old timely. Don't read old text expecting it to sound like some kid off the street today, especially accounting for special literary means of expression some languages use on paper but not always in common speech.