/lit/ - Literature

>>12194918
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

>npc
>brainlet
>greentext
Excellent thread. Upvoted and submitted to /r/4chan.

>God is dead
>By the way you need to follow this secular ethical system
>Why?
>angery

>>12194938
>4chan
THIS IS CHANNELFOUR GO BACK TO YOUR KEKSHED

Well, yeah, that's literally how it works.

>I'm smart but I'm just lazy bro haha trust me

>>12194918
Prostitutes and drug dealers are higher IQ than professors and scientists.

>>12194958
>Well, yeah, that's literally how it works.
No. It "literally" isn't.

>12194965
Yikes

>>12194962
Fucking hate people like this

>>12194962
I thought I was lazy but turns out I'm just mentally ill lol

>I'm intelligent even though I'm unsuccessful!
>Great, I have, however, no reason to believe that, seeing your presumed intelligence bore no results.
>...
>...
>angery.exe

>>12194990
Yes, it literally literally is.

>>12194918
Nah, most brainlets are incredibly jealous of successful people. They always assume their success is a result of luck/nepotism rather than brains.

>>12195003
Srs? I have chronic laziness and I think I might just be depressed.

>>12194918
That logic is fine. It's this logic that's bad:

>Successful people are intelligent
>If you aren't successful, you aren't intelligent

>>12195003
Is it depression?

>>12195006
What if i joined mensa

>>12195030
This. OP your grasp of logic is insane.
>if it's raining, it will be wet outside
>it's not wet outside, so it's not raining
>REEEEEEE BRAINLET

>>12195006
IQ tests though

>>12195003
>>12195029
>I know I have a serious character flaw
>quick lets visit a doctor to get a cushy victimhood label and some meds to replace actually working on yourself
Amerilards were a fucking mistake.

>>12195006
>>12194918
It all depends on what constitutes as success. An academic or a philosopher will be successful in a different way than a CEO or a politician. Also, people’s aims vary greatly. I would count Diogenes as a successful nan although he definitely isn’t traditionally successful. Yet he was doing exactly what he set out to do and have the effect he wanted to have. If your aim in life is to do something (like write a book) and seek nothing in return then you’re succesful upon doing that which you set out to do (i.e. Van Gogh, Kafka). If your aim is to be at peace or happy then you’re successful if you’re manage that (regardless of material status).

>>12195053
High IQ post.

>>12195006
IQ tests defeat this argument completely. I test at 140+ but am a lazy asshole. What now bruh?

>>12195029
>>12195033
that and anxiety

>>12195047
I am working on myself, go to the gym regularly, read more, have a full time job now, going back to school next year if I can.

>>12195047
>dude just le improve yourself

has anyone who ever actually hard a hard life, especially all the way from childhood, said something as retarded as this? I can only really imagine that the redditors who were perfect normies, mild outcasts in their teen years at bests, would be stupid enough to act like that every single problem someone has can be solved with "improvement" divined out of some endless source of mental and physical fortitude/ energy

>>12195046
>>12195063
That's why only autistic failures on 4chan take IQ seriously.

>>12195053
>I would count Diogenes as a successful nan although he definitely isn’t traditionally successful. Yet he was doing exactly what he set out to do and have the effect he wanted to have. If your aim in life is to do something (like write a book) and seek nothing in return then you’re succesful upon doing that which you set out to do (i.e. Van Gogh, Kafka). If your aim is to be at peace or happy then you’re successful if you’re manage that (regardless of material status).
Pure, unfiltered brainletism.
>"I want to be a worthless sack of shit covered in dried up cum and tendies crust"
>do that
>MOM LOOK IM SUCCESSFUL
What you're describing is the opposite of success - defeatism. The idea of defining own success is the delusion people dream up when they aren't capable of taking upon the world. Success, in any forms, involves personal transformation RECOGNIZED by others. Diogenes wasn't successful because he was bumming around telling Alexander to suck his dick. They were plenty of bums in Greece I'm sure. His success was making it into history books, an enviable task. Same with Kafka, who reached ironically unwanted posthumous success.

>>12195074
nah my life wasn't hard. I'm well off, supportive family, my childhood and school years were ok too, I'm not particularly ugly or otherwise disabled or ill. It's all in my head.

>>12195074
>muh middle class litfag "depression"
>hard life all the way from childhood
Stop moving goalposts, cockgobbler.

>>12195046
>>12195063
IQ defines potentiality of intelligence, not intelligence. Compare it to physical fitness: right now, on planet Earth, there are possibly thousands of men who are genetically predisposed to have greater bodies than Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime. However, most of them aren't going to them gym and therefore exist as fat, skinny, or in other sorts of unremarkable bodies. Their "fitness IQ" is exceptionally high, yet unless they put it to good use it means nothing.

>>12195081
By externalizing the means of your own satisfaction you are leading yourself to inevitable disillusionment. If the criterion of your own worth is based on that which is constructed outside of you (by society, history, or some other arbitrary standard) you are abandoning the reigns of your destiny and what’s more pathetic than a man who has to be told what he is?

>>12195093
Neither of the posts the reddit frogger was replying to were mine, I was directly addressing his own retarded behavior of being stupid enough to think that mental illness can be fixed by some epic attitude change and that everyone who seeks help for it wants a "victim label"

the majority of people suffering from mental illness never get help for it even if they want to, partly because of stigma and probably a significant section of them for the exact retarded attitude that other people around them help to reinforce, as in that it would be some fixable attitude problem. Especially severe mental illness is usually built up over years and years, the more extreme cases being then triggered by very identifiable traumatic events or experiences. Do you also think that a veteran with PTSD should "work on himself" because he has an episode every single time something sounds like an explosion?

>>12195045
>Some successful people are intelligent. Not all intelligent people are successful. Conclusion: all intelligent people are successful

>>12195119
Neither success nor intelligence can be possibly defined by individual alone without any external judgements. Imagine a man, alone, suspended in the infinite void of empty space. Is he successful? Compared to whom? Is he intelligent? How does he know that?

“[There is] no direct relationship between IQ and economic opportunity. In the supposed interests of fairness and “social justice”, the natural relationship has been all but obliterated.

Consider the first necessity of employment, filling out a job application. A generic job application does not ask for information on IQ. If such information is volunteered, this is likely to be interpreted as boastful exaggeration, narcissism, excessive entitlement, exceptionalism [...] and/or a lack of team spirit. None of these interpretations is likely to get you hired.

Instead, the application contains questions about job experience and educational background, neither of which necessarily has anything to do with IQ. Universities are in business for profit; they are run like companies, seek as many paying clients as they can get, and therefore routinely accept people with lukewarm IQ’s, especially if they fill a slot in some quota system (in which case they will often be allowed to stay despite substandard performance). Regarding the quotas themselves, these may in fact turn the tables, advantaging members of groups with lower mean IQ’s than other groups [...] sometimes, people with lower IQ’s are expressly advantaged in more ways than one.

These days, most decent jobs require a college education. Academia has worked relentlessly to bring this about, as it gains money and power by monopolizing the employment market across the spectrum. Because there is a glut of college-educated applicants for high-paying jobs, there is usually no need for an employer to deviate from general policy and hire an applicant with no degree. What about the civil service? While the civil service was once mostly open to people without college educations, this is no longer the case, and quotas make a very big difference in who gets hired. Back when I was in the New York job market, “minorities” (actually, worldwide majorities) were being spotted 30 (thirty) points on the civil service exam; for example, a Black person with a score as low as 70 was hired ahead of a White person with a score of 100. Obviously, any prior positive correlation between IQ and civil service employment has been reversed.

Add to this the fact that many people, including employers, resent or feel threatened by intelligent people [...] and the IQ-parameterized employment function is no longer what it was once cracked up to be. If you doubt it, just look at the people running things these days. They may run a little above average, but you’d better not be expecting to find any Aristotles or Newtons among them. Intelligence has been replaced in the job market with an increasingly poor substitute, possession of a college degree, and given that education has steadily given way to indoctrination and socialization as academic priorities, it would be naive to suppose that this is not dragging down the overall efficiency of society."

>>12195145
In short, there are presently many highly intelligent people working very “dumb” jobs, and conversely, many less intelligent people working jobs that would once have been filled by their intellectual superiors. Those sad stories about physics PhD’s flipping burgers at McDonald's are no longer so exceptional.

Sorry, folks, but this is not your grandfather’s meritocracy any more.”

>>12195121
>being stupid enough to think that mental illness can be fixed by some epic attitude change
That wasn't in the slightest what I meant. Why are you even engaging if you lack reading comprehension to this extent, illiterate double nigger?

>>12195130
All you’re saying is that neither success or intelligence have any validity outside of the apparatus of the social. Then what worth should they have to the subject? If one only seeks iintelligence or successes for social gain, then can we not consider them illusions of society that we, as individuals, should break away from in order to attain authenticity?

>>12195161
>dont visit a doctor, just le take a shower and go outside
>uhh NO, NO, THATS NOT WHAT I SAID

>>12195047
Not that Anon but I've been normal for about 20 years, I've been through sexual abuse at 6, violent bullying through grade school, social isolation in high school. But I was always happy. I got sick with Crohn's disease which took a lot of my energy away but I still pulled through. I was normal, rather confident, I thought of myself as smart. Then at some point in my 20s something happened to me and I just stopped functioning, I broke up with my girlfriend, I dropped out of university, I ghosted all my friends. I've been in therapy for depression for a decade and I only got progressively worse. I don't understand what the fuck happened that took away all my motivation to live.

>>12195168
Man is a social animal, denied by society. As an "individual" you're hardly different from a clueless stray dog.

>>12195047
>be eurofag
>want to collect welfare but don't want to partake in bullshit job training programs
>get diagnosed as mentally ill
>don't take meds but see a shrink once a month for 1 hour instead of being a wageslave for 160 hours so that it looks convincing for the state
>just shoot the shit with shrink and talk about literature and psychology and philosophy and stuff
>we both get paid for not working

>>12195170
>let me repeat my strawman, that will surely work this time

>>12195178
>denied
Defined*, fug

>>12195184
>>12195047

>>12195178
Just because we participate in society doesnt mean we have to regulate are internal order according to it. We can still break away from its constructs and power over the spirit. If society establishes a construct, I can appropiate it and turn it against itself. Hardly anyone would disagree with the fact that regardless of what metric of success we’re referring to, it has no effect upon the individual unless he allows it to.

>>12195119
Based and redpilled
>>12195130
>>12195178
>cucking your own glorious existence for others
Get bent for calling that other dude a brainlet. I know what you're trying to say, but nah.

>>12195194
Yes, read it over and over until you get what it's about, based representative of the mentally ill.

>>12195201
I'm right, you're wrong. You cannot disagree because I selfishly decided not to 'cuck' my success in this debate to others. Anyone who disagrees with my victory is a slave to the herd mentality.

>>12195195
The mere existence of these metrics already affects any and every individual, brainlet.

>>12195201
>glorious existence for others
How can you tell it's glorious were it not for the others around you?

>>12194918
>intelligence is measurable
>success is definable

Damn ohpee that's some serious undergrad thinking. What's it like making arguments that define Stephanie Meyer and JK Rowling as more intelligent than Melville, Kafka, Dickenson, Keats, and Plath?

>>12195227
And you called me the defeatist?

>>12195234
This was my first reply to you. Also not an argument.

>>12195178
>Man is a social animal, defined by society
Man is not defined by society, it's defined by the individual.

>>12195232
One day, the irony of your own statement shall hit you like a truck.

>>12195227
So because it affects you, that is a reason to be completely subservient to it? HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA AHA AH AH AAHA HAHAHA AHAHHAHA AHHAHAHA AHHAHA *breathes in* AHHAHAH AHAHA HAA AHGAHA AHGAGAHAHGAHAA A A A AAAAA AHAGHAHAA AHAHGAHAHHAA A A AA AHAGAHGHAGHAGHAGHAHHAHAHA AHHAHAGHAA AHAHAHHEHHE HHAGAGH OH NON NO OH NO AHAH HAHA HAHHA

>>12195232
>world renown multimillionaires are less intelligent than neurotic alcoholics and drug addicts who only achieved recognition posthumously

>>12195222
It's more like, my notion of success has nothing to do with this little internet conversation, and that's exactly why using yours or society's definition for the word is stupid otherwise I might give actually give a shit about going back and forth with you here.
>>12195231
Well you don't find it all that glorious do you? Most don't

>>12195261
>implying intelligence creates wealth when charisma is the much greater factor at play

>>12195246
>be born in medieval France
>"boy I sure feel like a staunch atheist today! Feels great not be be in any way bound by norms and customs of society!"

>>12195270
>middle-aged anglo moms
>charisma
Literally arguing against yourself.

>>12194918
Jordan B Peterson said Trump is intelligent because he's wealthy. If this line of thinking is good enough for him, then it's good enough for me.

>>12195269
Sorry, my OWN notion of success makes me more succesful in this debate than you. You see, it doesn't matter whether you 'give a shit' or not, for I am already triumphant by my OWN metric, so you have no choice but to scurry away as everyone ITT marvels at my intellectual, self-defined might. Well played, boy, but you've been a thousand years too early to face my full (*self-reported) power of mind!

>>12195260
>stirnerposting
>ahahahaha posting
>strawmanning this badly
9gag called and asked for you back.

Are there any books that attempt to show that socioeconomic outcomes ("success") have more to do preexisting social standing, familial wealth, and so on than intelligence WITHOUT denying that biologically predetermined intelligence exists and is important?
Chris Langan is a good case study of an intelligent man that had to abandon his college education due to financial hardship. There are many people I see with potential that are just slipping through the cracks simply because have neither money nor means, and decide to just abandon the rat-race than go back to school at say 28 and play catch-up to less intelligent people who had just had fortunate circumstances.

>>12195081
But Diogenes was recognized by others, he was a famed and esteemed philosopher in his time.

>>12195045
>it's not wet outside, so it's not raining
This is not not true.

>>12195236
Then allow me. First of all society is a construct, that is to say, a manifold that we unite, organize and label. Society doesnt exist oustide of the individual to begin with. When we talk about what society “does” or “has”, we do so instrumentally, knowing that the opposite could be equally truthful. The effect anything society “does” or “has” on the individual is equally constructed.

>>12195294
>Are there any books that attempt to show that socioeconomic outcomes ("success") have more to do preexisting social standing, familial wealth, and so on than intelligence WITHOUT denying that biologically predetermined intelligence exists and is important?

The first person to do this will be famous until the end of time.

>>12195047
>dude do you know what cure is for mental illness?
>a can do attitude!

>>12194944

>>12195302
You forgot to include an argument again.

>>12195288
I don't think you understood my point

>>12195306
Based

>>12195305
>I'm not lazy and lacking self-discipline, I have ADHD and depression!

>>12195309
But...I don't have to. My point trumps your point in any case, so any attempt on my part to understand your point would effectively make me a cuck. I don't wanna be a cuck, /pol/ said cuck bad.

>OP: let’s do X and Y
>Why
>!

>>12195318
>I don't wanna be a cuck, /pol/ said cuck bad.
>slipping into using extraneous metrics again
Never gonna make it as an Übermensch.