/lit/ - Literature

>>12193626
> fascism was above all an attempt to dissolve the social ties created by history and replace them by artificial bonds among individuals
nope

>>12193626
This text is fascist because it assumes that fascism is the best ideology for egoist who think of their own best - one could from this claim that egoism supports communism, conservatism and theocracy too.

>>12193667
Shit my grammar sucks
I know it

>>12193626
stirner was the original neetsoc

>>12193712
This meme is better without the exclaimation mark

>>12193626
Reminder that justice is a whore and human rights are a spook. Murder and rape are as natural as shitting and eating and should therefore be legal.

>>12193712
Absolutely retarded and likely at odds with basic physical laws governing complex systems.

>>12193736
hoho based. Hope you kill yourself soon

>>12193718
This is how you get lebensraum. Nazis were National Egoists desu, just a union of egoist taking other people’s shit and laughing at rules and shit.

>>12193667
That may well be the case since every succesful state at the moment is fascist and the non-fascist ones are shitholes.

the link between anarchism and fascism has been noted many times by now
the italian arditti's wild abandon in battle and joie de vivre out of it
yukio mishima's characters yearning for endless skies, dazzling sunshine and total submission; his own 20th century rōnin persona
the ambiguous political status of people like ernst junger and nietzsche himself

jonathan bowden talked (tacitly) about this many times if you listen carefully to his speech3e6

the connection between these two ideas imo is violence and power, in the very basic sense of weilding power or instruments of power, and being able (willing) to exercise violence onto others

it's very late and this post might not make sense

>>12194019
i feel attracted to both desu so you might be on to something

>>12193626
>At first Nazism seems like the opposite of Egoism.
>But, [describes the opposite of Egoism] so think about that.

>>12194019
It's true and even a cursory look at /pol/ will give you all the material of it in meme form.
Once you see power over men for what it is, you can broadly refuse it (ancap ball) or embrace it (moonman). The convoluted intermediate pseudo-principles take a secondary place in both cases compared to other political philosophies.

>>12194019
your posts are extremely cringey. Fuck bowden because he is a dead faggot with nothing to say that wasn't addressed to far right brainlets and fuck you.

Groups of people sharing characteristics are a spook

>>12193626
Ummm, no sweetie

>>12193626
This paragraph is retarded at least in its statements of fascism/totalitarianism. On page 2 of The Doctrine of Fascism by Mussolini, the guy who invented fascism:

>In the Fascist conception of history, man is man only by virtue of the spiritual process to which he contributes as a member of the family, the social group, the nation, and in function of history to which all nations bring their contribution. Hence the great value of tradition in records, in language, in customs, in the rules of social life. Outside history man is a nonentity.

Fascism is, as he says, an essentially spiritual, traditional, and historical conception, hence all the roman shit etc.

Second of all, while I'm not going to pull out my Stirner over this, he's totally mischaracterizing Stirner's concept of insurrection. The egoist derives wishes from himself, from reliance on `nothing', whatever that means, outside conditions enslave him just as ideology, which, for that matter, Fascism includes just as much.

So no. While I won't dispute that there's something to the idea that egoism could be applied to the "person" of the Fascist state, and it's true that in Salo, or 120 Days of Sodom the guy does say that "Fascism is the only true form of anarchism", this is not a correct interpretation.

>>12194203
>what it is
what is it?

>>12194295
Cringe
Reminder that Stirner's wife cheated on him and he died alone and full of regrets, wishing he had a second chance in life
Age, number of female sexual partners?

>>12194295
White genocide and multicultural police state is against my best interest.

>>12194295
the left can't meme

>>12195307
cringe

>>12195468
Cringe

>>12193626
This is horseshit
Stirner advocates rationale individualism that considers the facts as they may be to further one’s own value system
Nazis wanted the civilians to groupthink and musterbate to Hitler’s face
That’s as un-Stirnerian as you can go

>>12193626
sounds like what Junger envisioned in Eumeswil

>>12193661
>i get my views from nazi propaganda
Germany is a lie. It's a Prussian myth artificed to subjugate the diverse nations of the Holy Roman Empire.

>>12195336
That's why it's okay to stab you. Conflict of interests.

>>12193740
>t. npc

>>12195547
You can't have views on what Nazis say by ignoring what Nazis say.

>>12195514
>nazis are the only example of fascism

>>12195586
i dont care what they say but what they do
taking into account what they say merely reveals their dissimulation

>>12193626
based

>>12193661
It's true, Fascist heavily promoted the cultural intermingling of southern and northern Italians and generally focused on uniting them together as Italians and on eliminating the social class divide by having everyone fraternize together at state-funded festivals, dances, cinema, workout regiments etc, Mussolini read and was influenced by Stirner. Allied propaganda created the idea of him as a dumb brute but he was translating Nietzsche into Italian in his 20's.

>>12193626
he's not wrong
stirner's philosophy only constitutes something pro-anarchy insofar as that would be the result of many people becoming conscious egoists
hans landa was a conscious egoist, existing within a system where most are still beholden to higher values - just as one might within capitalism, communism, or anything else

>>12195336
this. the left can't meme.

>>12195307
>Reminder that Stirner's wife cheated on him and he died alone and full of regrets, wishing he had a second chance in life
>Age, number of female sexual partners?
Why are you making stuff up? He did divorce his wife, but he lost interest in her after he saw her naked, which is actually recorded.

>>12196416
>That she did what she wished, and that Stirner let her do what she wished-that of course may have let her appear in the eyes of the marriage-slaves as detestable as it later did to her, but it can only make the two of them more likable to us. Every act of making up the mind for the other, for that matter, would not have fit at all into the nature of those involved, for whom "marriage" meant only a loose band that was thrown around them purely externally. And not on the "unfaithfulness" of the wife-how ridiculous!-did "this marriage perish," but simply and only under the pressure of the circumstances in which he and she unfortunately all too soon found themselves.
From "Max Stirner - His Life and His Works" By Mackay
Cope incel ideology when you spend his time agreeing with him, philosophizing, making excuses etc... doing like him, who uses the spook excuse to cope with being an impotent cuck, like you guys over here like to do.
Chad thinking when you act as an egoist and impose your own will, like Mussolini did
The rest is cope and cringe

>>12194295
I deeply hope this was made ironically, my god

>>12195580
Yes but this will never happen. Most people instinctively are racist and tribalist. You stand no chance. You would be on your knees crying for mercy if shtf

>>12195580
as if you could
one thing is wishing other thing is doing

>>12196434

Stirner used up all of her money. She later regretted the marriage, having converted to Catholicism later on; referring to Stirner as a ''sly man''.

>he died alone and full of regrets, wishing he had a second chance in life
I do not know where you got this.

>Chad thinking when you act as an egoist and impose your own will, like Mussolini did
Mussolini having read the book, praised Stirners work in one of his articles, is he an incel cuck now?

>>12193626
Marxists have hated Stirner ever since Karl Marx himself. This is just more Marxists' butt blasted blather.

>>12197275
He actually did something instead of shouting spook spook spook

>>12193626
>if it is clear he will better himself by doing so.
A spook

>>12194220
SEETHING libtard rekt and btfo by BASED and REDPILLED anarchist-fascist coalition
*bowden on d'annunzio blasting in the background*

>>12195336
Well, firstly, white genocide isn't real (not that an egoist should care about it anyway as 'race' is a spook).

Secondly, yeah you're actually correct here, any police state is in direct conflict with an egoist worldview. But the fact that you said 'multicultural' makes me shiver, 'culture' my friend is a spook and regardless of it was a white, black or Jewish police state I would oppose them all.

>>12195307
Literal fake news

>>12196462
>instinctively
So much for 'creative nothing'
You obviously don't understand Stirner friend

>>12193626
Isn't egoism more in line with nihilism in how it treats morality as something that is nonexistent beyond the bounds of an the flawed directives of exploitable machines and the highest aspiration of human existence as the accrual of positive electrochemical stimulation?

wait are you telling me there are mouth breathers who think Stirner was fash?

>>12193626
>the egoist is free to adjust to the world if it is clear he will better himself by doing so.
No it isn't?

>>12193626
>Do I write out of love for men? No, I write because I want to procure for my thoughts an existence in the world; and, even if I foresaw that these thoughts would deprive you of your rest and your peace, even if I saw the bloodiest wars and the fall of many generations springing up from this seed of thought - I would nevertheless scatter it. Do with it what you will and can, this is your affair and does not trouble me.

>>12199669
based and edgepilled

>>12194295
cringe

>>12193712

> In such condition there is no place for industry, because the fruit thereof is uncertain, and consequently no culture of the earth, no navigation nor the use of commodities that may be imported by sea, no commodious building, no instruments of moving and removing such things as require much force, no knowledge of the face of the earth, no account of time, no arts, no letters, no society, and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.

>>12193626
>I don't like X
>Nazis are bad
>X and Nazis are the same

>>12200441
>not knowing 'X is bad' can only be meaningfully translated as 'I don't like X'

>>12197340
But Stirner did something too you idiot: influence Mussolini.

>>12200897
Lol more like he cucked himself for a greater man

>>12195307
>Age, number of female sexual partners?
>he actually lives in worship of pussy
Never gonna make it

>>12195547
It isn't tho, many German states shared similar traditions, language, culture; even Austria would have unified it under the German confederation, if it wasn't for teh pr*ssians

>>12201343
Based.
We should unify and change this common query into
>Age
>Number of great acts

>all these people breaking their heads to breed babies or great acts
>not embracing the epicurean route

>>12201543
Wish there were Epicurean texts preserved.
As a Stoic I want to read it's greatest rival.

>>12201561
Epicurean texts were preserved though.

>>12193804
Define Fascism.

A lot of the edgier anarchists seem get accused of being Fascist. Stirner, Junger, D'Annunzio, etc

>>12201606
Sorry to break it to you but there's very little

>>12193626
There is one and only one thing the Ego must be subordinated to and that is the supremacy of Reason.
Rand formulated and extolled an actually non-contradictory egoism which is subortinated to reason and the laws of Causality & Identity. Stirner, for instance, would object to this trying to argue that Egoism should have primacy and any attempt to ""adulterate"" it is to assault the individual as a concept. Rand recognized this as a fallacy and in fact NOT subortinating Egoism to Reason and other things on which it logically depends is to introduce a corrupting element to it. It is BECAUSE of the nature of objectivity and operants of reason that egoism can exist at all and be validated.
The rectitude of having the ego as one's centralizing focus is dependant on whether or not a given ego's excellence of development *warrants* this centralizing by a given man. That, of course, differs between men.
For a real egoist only one option is possible: Laissez-faire Capitalism. The alleged possibility of anything else least of all fascism is in fact contrary to the Ego.

>>12201638
There's a difference between very little being preserved and none at all, which was my point.

>>12201624
D'Annunzio was one of the most based men in history if their ever were a list.
His life is remarkable, in terms of living to his word (or at least his own convinctions).
Wouldn't surprise me that weak-willed geeks find him offensive.

>>12195519
I see you’re a man of culture

>>12201624
I think it’s because of writing style

>>12201647
>There is one and only one thing the Ego must be subordinated to and that is the supremacy of Reason.

For the means yeah but not for the ends.

>>12202144
But it is both.

>>12201647
>non-contradictory
Therefore non-dialectical and therefore incapable of overcoming dialectical reason, NEXT

>>12202371
Then you're not advocating a form of rational egoism, you're advocating a form of egoistic rationalism.

>>12202401
Semantics
"Rationalism" implies the school of thought centered around Descartes so certainly not. Objectivism thinks Rationalism is shit.
>>12202390
Dialectics is not Aristotlean and Objectivism takes that as an unignorable error. Objectivists are more concerned with simply being right (and all that entails) and out-debating any adversaries not cooking up a ""synthesis"" of two opposing creed's or opinions.

>>12202390
>dialectics
>reason

>>12199950
Check mate

>>12193626
>Stirner
Don't do that

>>12193626
>anarchist
nice spook

>>12193661
>>12193667
>>12193712
>>12193718
>>12193725
>>12193731
>>12193732
>>12193804
>>12194220
>>12194304
>>12194295
>>12195336
>>12195514
>>12195607
>>12197275
>>12197350
>>12198556
>>12198562
>>12199669
>>12200897
>>12201500
>>12201647

Braindead spookposters, blatant retards and other scum. >>> /trash/

St*rner isn't to be taken serious, and no one in the real world does. Only a few dimwitted contrarians post a picture of some obscure and quite insignificant German young Hegelian and circlejerk about some outlandish claims that his influence on western history was very SIGNIFICANT. It wasn't. The guy published his work, got 2 letters and an article back saying he was an idiot and he gave up. He lived an insignificant life afterwards and no one cared until you retards found a flashy picture and turned his badly written booklet into a meme. Now this cancer has been shitting up this board for some time and every one of these threads is the same. Cringy 16 year old's calling themselves St*rner experts and when asked about his actual ideas it's just HE WAS BASED SPOOK MAN. You saw an 19th century cartoon and started worshipping him as an idol of edgyness. Quite frankly I am sick of this, St*rner threads are the hemorroids of /lit/

>>12205010
What's your opinion on Liechtenstein anon ? honest question.

>>12204863

>>12205010
Randposter here, why'd you include me with the Stirner faggots? I fully agree the spook is an absurdity. Rand's undergirding validation of egoism and individualism, the supremacy of reason, are what make these things objectively unassailable. Stirner's egoism has far less defenses and contradictions throughout as it practices what Rand termed "whim-worship" ad nauseum. The Anticoncept>the Spook because the former is an actually useful (and historically revolutionary) tool for assessing bad ideational beleifs/philosophic logical fallacies and the latter is a barely useable whim-centric absurdity.
Overall? Stirner pretty much amounts to an attempt to validate the self by bruteforcing whim-worship. Their impression is that Stirner represents a sort of "purer" Egoism than Rand but the fact that Rand delves deeper into egoism's causal foundation means the opposite is true and the result is more powerfully validated.

>>12205174
>>12205010
imagine being this mad lol

ITT spooked morons

>>12203007
>"Rationalism" implies the school of thought centered around Descartes
No it doesn't.
>Dialectics is not Aristotlean
I don't think I claimed that it was.
>Objectivists are more concerned with simply being right (and all that entails) and out-debating any adversaries not cooking up a ""synthesis"" of two opposing creed's or opinions.
I don't care what their main concern is--if they are incapable of thinking dialectically then they cannot effectively overcome dialectical thinking and offer a meaningful alternative to dialectical thinking.
>>12203636
I think that you think you're saying something meaningful here, but you're actually not.

>>12205010
Nice spooks nerd

>>12206433
Let me be more specific, Objectivism rejects dialectic materialism and dialectical dualism and expounds one of it's own.
The absurdity of a synthesis between thesis and antithesis philosophically amounts to a secular ying/yang and an attempted philosophic base for centrism. From: http://www.rogerbissell.com/id11cccc.html Sciabarra provides ample illustration of Rand's "revolt against formal dualism," i.e., her policy of consistently rejecting false alternatives in every branch of philosophy: e.g., materialism vs. idealism in metaphysics, rationalism vs. empiricism in epistemology, altruism vs. hedonism in ethics, and statism vs. anarchism in politics. She discovers the common false premise in each pair of "ism's" and projects the truly opposite alternative view. Or, as in the dichotomies "between mind and body, reason and emotion, fact and value, theory and practice," she clarifies the common ground, usually overlooked, that ties the two phenomena together in an integral whole. Rand's approach is not, strictly speaking, the "transcendence of opposites," but rather the transcendence of, or moving beyond the limitations of, false opposites. Indeed she was all for legitimate polarizing, for insisting that certain basic distinctions be recognized: e.g., identity vs. the supernatural, reason vs. irrationality, individualism vs. collectivism, sacrifice vs. the "trader principle," individual rights vs. the initiation of force, and capitalism vs. statism.
In other words, Rand was just as adamant in opposing "monistic reductionism," the attempt to reduce one of two coequal principles to being a mere spinoff or disguised version of the other. Private property is not a form of theft, nor shouting "fire" in a crowded theater a form of free speech. Freely chosen acts between consenting adults are not a form of sacrificial exploitation, nor benevolent giving a form of self-sacrifice. Rational conviction is not a form of faith, nor reason a mere rationalization of one's underlying emotions. Non-existence is not a special kind of existence, nor consciousness a mere epiphenomenon of matter (or vice versa).

>>12195290
A spook.

>>12198562
I egoisticaly happen to like the particular culture and race, threat here, especially when considering the effect of the alternatives of not defending it. Union of égoïstes for this purpose.

>>12207872
>I egoisticaly happen to like the particular culture and race

That's a spook friend, culture and race are abstract fixed ideas, like religion and money, they serve no purpose for the Unique and its Cause.

Being and Egoist and believing in culture and race is like being a commie and believing in the free market

>>12208293
>>12207872

Actually a better example would be a communist believing in 'private property'

Or an Anarchist who believes in'states'

Or an 'An'cap believing in socialist policies

When I say 'believing' I mean 'agreeing with'
Either way, an Egoist cannot believe in spooks such as 'race' and 'culture' as they are fixed abstractions

>>12207872
>Union of égoïstes

Just wat

>>12208293
They do if a particular culture/race is superior to the others and thus would better benefit the Unique One to belong to that particular culture/race.

Stirnerism != nominalism

>>12209733
> a particular culture/race is superior to the others

A literal spook, only individuals matter, groups are an abstraction

>>12193626
You may as well say any ideology ever is Stirner approved then.

>>12210289
it is, as long as you don't buy into it but just use it instrumentally.

>>12195914
But Black People Twitter is hilarious

>>12210284
>But that means i cant be racists and laude being better then people ive never met

>>12205010
absolutely unbased

>>12194295
cringe

>>12193712
>egoists manage to abolish the government of a country with tens of millions of people
>sheer bureaucractic necessity of making sure everyone is clothed, fed and housed means a new state in all but name replaces it within literally hours

Nice work fags