/lit/ - Literature

>>12150787

Is Gödel, Escher, Bach as a diffcult book? Are there prerequisites to reading it?
Pic unironically related

>>12150926
I study math and its still pretty difficult. It's a metaphysical study. I'm currently watching some videos online in able to fully grasp what I'm reading lol

>>12150926
Difficult but worth every second of investment, its comprehensive as fuck so all the research is betters you in every conceivable way

Tl;dr based...

>>12150926
If you have any sort of university level education and concentration, then no, not really.

>>12150787
I want to read it. This scheme I found in /x/ peaked my interest on it.

If you posted that in /sci/ they would literally spend 300 posts explaining why GEB is not a good book. The OP on /sci/ would be like a joke post.

>>12150787
I failed math, could I attempt it if I try hard enough

>>12151429
Yes.

>>12151426
I haven't read GEB and only have a vague idea of what it's about, but why is /sci/'s opinion relevant? Godel, Escher, and Bach weren't scientists.

>>12151426
For once I'll say /sci/ is right about something. GEB is pure pseudery. Any person would be far better off just reading the Wikipedia articles on the halting problem, Godel's incompleteness theorems, Turing machines, Russel's paradox of naive set theory, and recursion, and following the links from them to other relevant articles. If you're going to get mathematical you should at least read actual math instead of pop-sci "Everything is just self-reference and recursion" (which is as bad as Wolfram's "everything is cellular automata").

>>12151576
>/sci/ - Science and Math
>Kurt Godel - Mathematician (specializing in logic)

>>12151410
Why does that chart imply it's impossible to move on from questioning a desire?

Unironically, I learned that philosophy is more of an art, and Land was the kubrick of continental before he metamorphosed into what he is now. I'm fascinated in the idea of theory-fiction. Literally helped me understand everything

>>12151610
Ah, I hadn't notice the little detail. It may be an error in the scheme or maybe I just understood it poorly.

>>12151600
This.

This one.

The first half is just history lessons, which are really interesting in themselves, leading up to around the modern day. The second half is Tegmark extrapolating what we know to a fairly logical conclusion: That the universe is made up of a single mathematical Monad.

The Essential Peirces'
Gave me a powerful 22nd century scientific phenemonology, metaphysics and semiotics that I have the pleasure of using for everything. And pragmatism, oo boy that too. Incredible philsopher of science. highly relevant.
My spun weed aunt gave me a copy of that GEB book, I'll take a gander. . And report back.

>>12151600
I disagree. Although it is a very complex read, it is also very enjoyable. After every chapter there's a dialogue almost like that of a play between two characters about the material presented. This makes it enjoyable and even fun. Why do you think is pseudery?

>>12151758
That's what makes it pseudery; it's just pop-math rather than real math. Watered down.

>>12151758
It's excessively verbose and most of the time isn't saying anything at all. If you stripped out everything that doesn't pertain to the Hofstadter's core thesis the book would be like 50 pages long. Or less.

I like GEB, it's great fun to read, but it's not /sci/ material.

>>12151779
No one said it was. I just said it affected me to the point where I view things differently after reading through it.

>>12151784
You think that because you're stupid.

>>12150787
GEB belongs to this odd category of book which are written by clearly bright people and It’s either genius or utter garbage but it’s not really obvious which it is.

My favourite book in that genre is pic related

>>12151690
It’s interesting to me that there is an apparent convergence between this and Badiou. Ontology = Mathematics.

>>12151821
I'll have to check out Badiou. And yes, all signs are pointing to ontology being mathematical.

>>12151609
>Godel
>math
logic is a branch of philosophy you pleb

>>12151600
I thought it wasn't about the maths, though, it was about consciousness. Math is just a convenient language to couch those ideas in. So is music, and so is art, which is why he spends so much time discussing fugues and shit.
I think the real mistake is looking at GEB as a mathy book at all. You need some baseline understanding of math to get it, sure, but that's not the point. It's just a convenient tool for expressing his actual core idea.

>>12151831
Thank you.

>>12151828
Obviously there's some overlap, but you'd have to be a retard to say Godel was not a mathematician.
>>12151831
You're correct that the book is about consciousness, but it's a pop-sci book about consciousness that tries to seem smart by referencing some mathematical ideas. Posturing by use of mathematics. Textbook pseudery.

>>12151907
He’s not just referring to mathematical concepts, he’s using them and doing so correctly. Plenty of people through out references to quantum mechanics or chaos or whatever else without having any real understanding of the concepts but that’s not the case for GEB. He really does have a PhD in physics and understands the concepts he’s using.

It’s a mistake to call it pseudery, just because the thesis might be wrong or is objectionable doesn’t make it pseudery.

>>12151817
The issue with GEB is that, if it's right, then it's a fantastic way of introducing someone to all the pre-requisite subjects needed to understand his actual point. But there's nothing to say that strange loops are the basis of consciousness.

>>12151610
You never actually move on. That desire will always tempt you.

Let's say you are tempted by a qt.
>ask her out
>she says no
>eventually she changes her mind
>take her out on a nice date
>she says you're nice but can't see anyone now because reasons
>now you want her even more
>five years pass
>she is fat and has a kid by some sweaty beardo
>you don't want her anymore
>but you still want the girl you originally wanted
Voila. Desire.

>>12151615
>Literally helped me understand everything
>didn't start with the greeks
never going to make it

>>12150787
How challenging is godel, escher, bach to read? It looks very intimidating and I'm really shitty with maths.

In Search of Lost Time helped me understand people around me

>>12153076
It's baby-tier easy to read, just long.

>>12151410
while it might take from that book, I'm pretty sure that's a slightly modified version of a chart some redditor, who shilled his shitcoin everywhere, would post as something that 'cured his depression'