/lit/ - Literature

>>12067818
Replace it with the subjectivity of individual perception so you aren't as stuck as you are

>>12067818
Relax and destress my dude

Your moral framework is not the thing agitating you, your lifestyle is

Just try to be polite, pragmatic, caring, conscientious, and practice self forgiveness and you'll be fine

>>12067818

tell me your name so that I may pray for you

how do i stop being a hyper-individualistic atomized individual? i feel like, unwillingly, i followed Peterson's advice to its logical conclusion where i have stopped developing social relationships. i am unable to. i have been called a selfish cunt.

books for this feel. i want to learn to love society

>>12067864
Probably just mild agoraphobia.

No cure other than therapy and changing your lifestyle. Getting a job's not a bad way to start.

Also, trying not to catastrophize everything you see. When other people are being dicks, you can just say you don't like them, they're not evil and it's not because society is broken. Same goes for yourself - tell yourself things like "I made a mistake and felt embarrassed" instead of "I'm a failure and now I want to die." You may not catastrophize, but it's something I've notice that's common among the agoraphobes I've met.

I believe in you anon :) I fought agoraphobia and won

>>12067849
This.

>>12067818
Stop being a moral relativist and start being a moral skeptic ;)

>>12067936
i have a job, im a grad student. i end up using weekends all alone in my room bc i need time to reset my brain, but then if i dont go out or socialize with new people i get more and more lonely

>all these lost souls
Hell containment thread

>>12067864
1) don't take Peterson's ideas to their "logical conclusions", because his ideas are not noteworthy or effective enough to take to the end. He isn't as informed as you might think on the subject of how to live your life, and has a tendency to speak well beyond the limits of his intellectual (psychological) framework.

2) envisioning yourself as an atomised individual will lull you into an inert state. It neuters any potential you might have for a genuine moment with another being. So the alternative is to try thinking of yourself as one vector in an endless field of potentialities. Your progression might appear different or alienated from the lives of others, but as long as you keep moving forward you will inevitably have meaningful collisions with other people. If you stand still, you and your genetic line will certainly die out.

>>12067963
fake Christcuck.. lukewarm freak.. deivil

>>12067967
thanks. i do worry about that. i end up spazzing out or getting overly autistic about these idiosyncracies and then grills dont give me a second date.

>>12067818
No society throughout all of man's history has considered it noble to betray their own tribe/people.
That's just one shared moral belief. There are many.

The endless void is actually the etwrnal light, you just have to see it that way.

>>12067818
there's no such thing as morality, there now you are just a moral nihilist

Whoa buddy, chill out man. Just read Ethics: An Essay on the Understanding Of Evil by pic related. He annihilated postmodern relativism without a return to the naivitey of modernism or premodernism.

>>12067818
read Plato and Aquinas. recognize Christ as the form of the Good. learn what beauty is composed of, and understand Him as most beautiful. learn your transcendentals.

bam. you now have a philosophical basis for an absolute morality.

>>12067818
humans used to think the ground was the ultimate physical reference point. There is a definite, universal UP and a DOWN.
Then, it turns out, we're just loose ball careening through empty space, an invisible force hold us in place close to the sun, but any major cosmological event could slingshot us right into Jupiter or into the cold grave of interstellar space. Or just vaporize the earth instantly.

Does any of this freak you out on a daily basis?
It doesn't. Just like you're not terrified of getting into a car or bus, despite the possibility of being in an accident, eating at a restaurant despite not knowing how the food was handled, etc.

This attitude stems from a fundamental kind of faith. I like to call it Pronoia. The opposite of paranoia. The belief that the universe is a fundamentally friendly place.

Similarly, in the absence of absolute moral reference points, we have to make the conscious choice to live and to make do with what we got: Our moral intuitions, our innate tendency or preference for being good to one-another, for cooperating rather than taking advantage.

>>12067864
Ironically though Peterson's moral framework actually places the groups interests above the individual. He invokes Piaget's theory of social games to explain that actions which are the most pro-social are also the most pro-indivdual since they allow the individual to continue playing the games or have more games to play.

>HOW THE FUCK DO I ESCAPE MORAL RELATIVISM
try meta-ethics 101 you ape

>>12068511
There aren't many known events in the cosmos which could fling us into jupiter or vaporize us

>>12068543
there isn't a large variety of them, but the possible instances are countless.
A rogue planet could enter our solar system obliquely, slightly altering the orbits of the planets, resulting in a collision.
That's one known type of event. But the number that matters is: how many of these rogue planets could be there be out there?

>>12068736
Their number doesn't actually matter, but their number density does, and it's expected to be at worst on the same order of magnitude as the number density of stars, which is not nearly enough to expect collisions or interactions between systems in our section of the milky way

>>12068736
>>12068778
So I guess I revise my statement - plenty of events could cause this, but none of them are even remotely likely that I know of.

With any relativism you need to explain what morality is relative to, why it is relative to that thing(s) and then justify the reality/objectivity of that thing and the veracity of that relationship. Relativism is not a default position with regards to morality.

>>12068781
yea, sure, I know these things aren't that likely, but probability is besides the point here.
civilization from being on god's cozy glass-dome-enclosed world, to being on a speck of dirt being flown through space by unthinking, impersonal forces.
I don't know how to emphasize the differences here anymore than I already have.

you might as well tell OP, "don't worry about moral relativism because, statistically speaking, you're not likely to make very many meaningful moral choices in your life anyways, most everyday choices carry no moral weight whatsoever" which may be true, but is totally beside the point.

Try Macintyre's After Virtue

The problem is that post enlightenment philosophy only provides us with methods for assessing whether this or that act is or is not in compliance with this or that principle.

On principles themselves, modern societies have become silent, and worse still, confused with the introduction of democratic norms meant to construct a nation out of varying religious affiliations.

>>12068827
That doesn't seem beside the point to me at all. That seems to be /the/ point. Why fritter your life away worrying about something you'll never encounter? If you're panicking about moral relativism, you're spending too much time in your head and not living in the real world enough.

>>12067818
This book Anon. History has a moral direction, and that direction is towards greater levels of cooperation and mutual benefit.

>>12068850
Gah, fuck, I keep forgetting to turn off my novelty tripcodes

>>12068863
uh bro that's a bad move muchacho

>>12068851
>history has a telos
you do realize how dangerous what you're doing is right

>>12067818
Moral nihilism is more desirable than moral realism. Imagine if your partner only loved you because there was a rule to love you. Their love would be meaningless. So too with morality. The idea of having a universal law that enforces and condones good will and care towrds others disintegrates the very meaning and value of their care. Namely, that they are beings who genuinely of their own accord and kind nature actually like you and wish for your wellbeing. The very fact that there is no force in the universe other than the very compassion of their nature is what grants the value to their behavior. Under moral nihilism, when you encounter kindness it is because that is the very nature and comportment of the being who is kind to you. Under moral realism we have trash laws that judge us for what we do and so authenticity and the beauty of unnecessary excessive compassionate spontaneity vanish.

>>12067953
I know this feel well

>>12067818
What if our horror at there being no objective morality IS objective morality

>>12067818
Forgiveness is the practice which gives life to moral theory.

>>12067818

Good vs. Good

Evil vs. Evil

Good vs. Evil

Think of these are tiers of Morality that people mutually infer.

>>12067818

Good vs. Good

Evil vs. Evil

Good vs. Evil

Think of these as tiers of Morality that people mutually infer.

>>12068962
I'm recommending a book and giving a quick rundown so someone can read it themselves if it interests them and come to their own conclusions?

>>12067953
Is it imperative that you absolutely need to "reset your brain" every weekend? Because sometimes not doing anything because you tell yourself you need rest can become a habit even when you don't actually need rest. Living alone is shit, and I wouldn't be able to cope without getting busy myself, doing things and going places. I think people aren't as fragile as they sometimes like to believe.

>>12067818

QUICK ANON
USE THIS!!

>handles metaphysics

>>12067849
hey that's me

>>12067818
Try balancing your moral intuitions, even if they are relative to your culture, in a reflective equilibrium

>>12068251
because societies cant form without this belief. it says nothing about any qualities inherent in the moral itself, youre just observing that some morals are better at developing societies than others. cars also generally have round wheels!!!

>>12068493
how is Christ so based bros

>>12068251
>he posts as he's living in one right now

>>12069422
u*raine is an artifical """country"""
u*rainians are subhuman
end of

>>12067818
if you realize moral relativism rationally and then start to feel it eat away at you, youre probably not dealing with the inherent morals that have been imprinted onto you. in fact, it seems you might be self-oblivious or a budding BEE-tier writer.

>>12067818
Read Derek Parfits On What Matters (Vol I should suffice) seriously dude it is heralded as a massive achievement in moral philosophy. Stop looking for solutions on a place like 4chan, you really think the stereotypical channer is gonna have an informed view on meta-ethics?!

just get fucking laid

>>12069702
the first line in your picture should be "If you're single you're either:"

please stop using it until you've corrected the error

>>12069757
based ironic autist