/lit/ - Literature

I had an idea for a story that takes place on a fleet of ships fleeing Earth after an invasion. Most of the passengers are the military and wealthy people, but they find out there are stowaways from a rebel group who found it unfair that the poor were being left behind to die. It basically becomes the rebels fighting for control over the ships and aliens chasing the ships and stuff like that. I'll do a lot of world building and tell most of the story through a bunch of different characters, like the alien leader, fleet leader, rebel leader, scientists, engineers, and one normal dude who's first child is born on the ships, and is actually the first child ever to be born on the voyage. It's copyrighted so please steal the idea because I'm not gonna finish writing it and I need the money from a lawsuit.

>>12064464
Vulcan's Hammer by PKD was pretty wild, ended up being much better than expected. I liked Barris as a protag, as well as the lack of sexuality within the book.
I think PKD writes ideas, not books.
How do you think Luffy will escape the cell?

>>12064494
That sounds horrible.

>>12064508
I'm going to write you into the book as a kid who gets thrown out of the airlock on the 5th page

>>12064494
>rebels
>spaceships leaving earth
>aliens
Sounds tame af desu. Nothing about that premise makes me want to read the book.

>>12064464
Buy my books, incels.
And read them.

>>12064555
Who the heccc is this guy?

>>12064575
Mark Lawrence, the king of grimdark.

>>12064575
The one true God of Grimdark, San dan Glokta.

>>12064542
I'm not looking to write ninja paladins in space 5 I'm trying to create a believable futuristic world built entirely around humans and their struggle for survival. Most of the story will be about life on the ships and creating a realistic, enthralling world that you could actually see existing in the future. That's why I put the one normal guy in the story, most of the story will be based around him and essentially create a slice of life description of his experiences as a middle class citizen who could barely afford a spot on the ship and is now among adapting to life as part of the working class on the ship. I'll make lore and stuff and explain how the ships were built and the way their society is structured to keep it functioning.

>>12063797
im still looking for this

>>12064586
Well sure, it could be good depending on the execution but it's a just too much of a blank canvas just going by the premise.

>>12064617
I see what you mean though a gimmick would definitely help, like I could add a giant space worm controlled by the aliens or something. I might make it something they worship and have to feed every 100 years by ritualistically sending it after an inhabited planet of their choosing. Might be too close to dune though. I'll think of something.

>>12064633
Don't necessarily think it needs a gimmick, more like a crutch to put other things in perspective. Rebel stowaways and aliens chasing ships isn't enough. You might have something with that first child born on the ships part.

Eyes of the Overworld is amazing half way through. The first few pages are a bit jarring but wow. Also I've never had to look up this many random words when reading fiction

>>12064464
>tell us a little about what you're writing and how it's going anon.
A bunch of gnolls kill and eat a band of adventurers and end up in possession of the magic macguffin needed to defeat the big bad. Cue globe-trotting adventure as they try to save a world that is trying to kill them and encounter friends and foes on the way.

The main character is the introspective type, but the other two gnolls are well and truly thick-skulled hyenas who rape and kill and so on. Along the way they will assemble a motley crew of other D&D random encounters who get short shrift in most stories and solve problems with axes to the face and gratuitous, capricious violence. The main character develops from a weedy nerd (he's not actually weedy, but has the personality) to a warrior chief but it's a melancholy progression.

There's no point to it.

Mostly I just want to write about characters who are absolutely beastly.

>That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.

>>12064950

>>12064950

does it make sense for a civilization to have a different written language and spoken language
something like written language for the complex stuff and spoken language for the everyday communication because it's more efficient

>>12064730
I like the beastly shit but the dude mcguffin big bad lmao shit sounds boring.

>>12065088
How do you mean different?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I JUST WANT TO READ MORE BAKKER RELEASE ANOTHER BOOK YOU PRETENTIOUS FUCK

>>12065100
like chinese when you need to write stuff and english when speaking

>>12065088
Yes, was definitely done with Latin in Europe and apparently with Sumerian back in the day as well.

>>12065106
Wat? The symbolic representation of a spoken language is just that, not a completely different language.

>>12064464
>>Share the struggle, tell us a little about what you're writing and how it's going anon.
It's a convoluted mess of a plot because all I have are characters and a vague setting but almost no inkling of the conflict driving them. I don't know what story I want to tell, I just know who I want to tell it with.

>>12065119
alright thanks

>>12065124
that's not what i meant

>>12065103
Based Kellhus

>>12065245
>fucks you in the ass just to mess with your head

unironically other writers just cant compete

>>12065251
>getting btfo by your 8 year old soulless abomination of a child

Looks like Akka wins after all.

>>12065088
>>12065119
>>12065157
Latin was used for written scientific and religious texts but the reason often given was so the pleb class would not be able to read them. It kept knowledge and hence power with the elite classes. The everyday spoken language was still used for writing by most people (if they could even read & write)

>>12065091
Yeah it's really just there as a motivation to kickstart the adventure, I guess kinda as a pastiche of the traditional hero's quest. I plan to use a lot of character-driven subplots from the "party" members to fill up the bulk of the novel, and the main plot is sort of in the background except at the beginning and the end. It's just there to keep them in motion, while the actual story is about the adventures along the way.

Maybe I could do something more interesting with it, but I don't want to make the plot itself too gritty. I want the grittiness to come from the characters (and I don't want that to feel gritty) - I want to keep the tone light and treat the gratuitous violence and cruelty in the foreground without dwelling on it.

>tfw so massively insecure and self-conscious that I've come to believe everything I write is utter shit and therefore not worth trying
How to get out of this mindset

>>12065661
stop writing and go into stem. I cant imagine trying to peddle your own writing looking at how over saturated the world is with shit writing. Every brainlet cunt on twitter with writer in their profile would drive me further towards suicide. Unironically give up.

>>12065661
By writing every single day and reading good fiction to learn from. Or what >>12065680 said.

>>12065088
Yes it definitely makes sense. Europeans did that with Latin. During the Early Modern Age, Latin still was the most important language of culture in Europe. Until the end of the 17th century the majority of books and almost all diplomatic documents were written in Latin.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Latin
The Byzantines also did something similar. The official language at court and among the diplomatic elite was, until the 7th century, Latin, while merchants and bankers spoke Greek.

>>12065103
>>12065251
Are these from The Prince of Nothing?
Quick rundown?

>>12065753
Edge
Nihilism
Bloat
Pretentiousness

>>12064584
go suck your gums.

>>12065753
Yes. This is the basic plot of it.
Rape Monsters vs. Wizards

19 days to thrall faggets.
https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20181201T00&p0=224&msg=Thrall%20Release%20In%20Amazon%20Kindle

>>12064494
>>12064586
I would read that desu.
I like sci-fi world-building

>>12065797
What?

>>12065766
>Rape Monsters vs. Wizards
I am not sure who to cheer on?

>>12065829
AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH

I'm like the idea of urban fantasy, but is there any setting for it that isn't like a "secret society" thing. I mean it is always the same base, I rarely see anything that tries to be realistic. The whole wizards/monster/aliens... are in our lifes we just don't see it, is so boring.

>>12065829
Is this the fabled big-tiddy goth gf?

>>12065840
There, there anon.I am sure you'll find someone who can stand you for extended periods of time.

>>12065973
I don't know. There's so many big tiddy goth girls out there.

>>12065103
What I want is more of these bakker comics

>>12065891
For a while I've been thinking of a story that would break that mold you're talking about. its an isekkai (the western type with a nonsense world instead of the eastern type with a jrpg world) about a bunch of kids trying to find their way home from a city full of magic and monsters.

think adventure time meets un lun dun

>>12065891
I suppose a Guilds of Ravnica type setting, with large, powerful, culturally-distinct gangs fighting over control of the city.

>>12066040

>>12066040
Post moar my negro.
This is my kind of fantasy

>>12065753
The end of the world (again)
A bitter old wizard
Face stealing dick girls
A man so perfect he can read minds by looking at people's faces

It's pretty comfy

>>12066182
Nah I'll get banned. We should get back to discussing fantasy?
Have you read the Throne of Glass series?

>>12066199
That actually sound like some shitty anime.

>>12066228
You end up rooting against the mindreader

Is Prince of Nothing a hard read? It seems dense.

>>12066234
You don't say? I am shocked, I thought futa Face Dancers would be hated more.

>>12066244
It's pretty dense but in another context.

>>12066244
i found it really comfy, although ive heard people other people say its a slog

>>12066234
no you don't. Kel did nothing wrong [\spoiler]

>>12066244
Medium dense but maximum comfe

>>12066267
>he's not on team Cnaiür

>>12066267
>>12066281
Comfy? In what sense? I thought it was about angry men and violence and rape.

Who is a good fantasy writer of short stories?
I am currently reading Lord of the Rings and though I am enjoying it a lot, Tolkien sure takes his time telling things so I'd like to have something short and to the point to read in between.
Sci-fi is acceptable as well but Fantasy is preferred.

>>12066284
It's about sad men and violence and rape.

It's a really cool world, a compelling story and has great characters.

>>12065797
EWB is scamming his poor idiotic followers. He makes more bank every month by NOT publishing his book. His monthly bank from patreon makes him more money than one book on amazon does.

He will probably find a way to "push back" this next book to get more money. Even if it's released, the next book will take another 3 years to publish, while he would have make over 60k in that time frame.

>>12066296
Sad men involved in violence in rape?
Sounds like IRL 4chan.

>>12066313
I wish I was able to scam poor idiotic followers. Heck I don't even have said idiotic followers.

I just finished this. Jesus shit why did I read this?

>>12066377
What's wrong with it?
Kim Newman does good work.

>>12066404

For starters, if you removed everything that didn't move the plot forward it would be 14 pages long.

>>12066431
I finished The Bloody Red Baron quite a long time ago but I do remember I enjoyed the book. I guess it's time to read his other works and call you a cretin afterwards.

>>12066362
Write a good book then. Go on Amazon and publish.
Although EWB was writing for years. Apparently he used to do erotica / serial novels / fanmade / whatever. He had his followers before Daniel Black.

All you cunts just publish your works for free to the internet. Take your criticism and GET GUD, then write a story and publish it to Amazon. Write a few more then say maybe a year later that "you heard your readers request to make a patreon, so you made it. Yall can help support me or w/e." Set your goal to like $500 a month, then set your fee as $5. Watch as the autism bucks roll in.

You will have to be active in patreon though. William Arand makes good bank from patreon, and so does EWB. Don't spend the money on hookers and coke, save it. You don't know when the patreon.net bubble will burst, so don't put all your eggs in one basket.

>>12066556
Thank you for your words of wisdom anon but that was just wishful thinking on my part. I already have a job in software development and the thought of interacting with people who read something like Daniel Black would probably make me fall in black rage.

>>12066696
>"my name's bobby hill. i sell death and death accessories."

>>12066712
And what accessories those are. K'Chain Che'Malle quake in fear in their presence.

>>12064950
thank you anon, i can here to post sefeelian.

>>12066696
Funny thing is EWB also has a job in software development....
I'm seeing that a lot of the amazon self publishing crowd is filled with coder authors.
Make a coding fantasy. Take your logic tree mindset and write magic. Magical engineering is wanted by many anon. It's a good niche. I think one of the reasons Daniel Black blew up so big other than the sex and guns was the magical engineering.

>>12066780
>take a dog head and put it upside down.

>>12066362
Sometimes yes. Plus a lot of musing about the nature of the soul and eternal damnation.

Then sad men get sadder. And Chad men get chadder.

>>12066814
>Funny thing is EWB also has a job in software development.
Oh that is just fucking horrible. Kinda explains the quality of the quality of the writing tho.
As for the magical engineering, autists ruin everything.

>>12065119
The sumerians themselves spoke and read Sumerian. After the fall of Sumerian culture, the Assyrians and Babylonians (whose culture was heavily influenced by the dead Sumerians) spoke and read their own languages but used cuneiform as their system of writing, which was invented for Sumerian. Similar to modern European languages using the Latin alphabet. However the Sumerian language itself was only used a bit by the priestly caste for purely ceremonial purposes. Afaik there is no historical example of a people using two completely different languages for reading and writing for normal use, but I don't see why it can't work in a fantasy context

>>12066888
Why don't you want to be the author to bring STEM to fantasy?

>>12066898
>Afaik there is no historical example of a people using two completely different languages for reading and writing for normal use
Anons already mentioned Latin in the middle ages. Some of the smaller Germanic kingdoms in the post-Roman world didn't write in their own tongues. The Suevi and Burgundian languages are unattested in writing, everything produced in their lands (what little of it there was) was written in Latin.
Additionally, a lot of the Near Eastern conquerors in the bronze age would conquer a city and continue to write in Akkadian/Sumerian/Aramaic, but barely use their own in writing. The Kassites and Amorites come to mind. I don't think they ever bothered to have scribes apply cuneiform to their languages beyond names and a couple of words.

>>12066916
I wouldn't really place software development in STEM. I know it's a giant umbrella for all sorts of tech-no-logical stuff but in practice developing software really doesn't have all that much in common with science, engineering or mathematics.
Putting magic into these neat, little delineated boxes is an exercise best left to autists and people suffering from OCD. Reading about perforimg magic by spreadsheets is something only those who play Farm Simulator find fun.

>>12067000
Ahh. You are one of those "gandalf had the best magics, pulling shit out your ass is the best" fags?

>>12067096

How do you even write military sci-fi? Why would there be infantry in the far future? Why not have robots do your fighting. And if there were armies why would they be structured like modern ones, especially given the huge tech advances? How could you supply armies in space with the money and cost involved? Why use anything but lightspeed weapons?

>>12067482
>why would there be infantry in the future/why not robots

you can make up whatever technological advances you want and therefore any limitations.

>how do you supply armies/why not lightspeed weapons

If youre going to incorporate ftl the supply thing becomes less important, also big ships can hold lots of supplies. As for lightspeed weapons sometimes you might want to not fucking atomize whatever youre aiming at. Also if you can travel ftl its reasonable to assume theres someway to counter lightspeed weapons. Just write in whatever limitations make your story reasonable.

>>12067482

That question has been asked many times as technology continues onward. Why have infantry with cavalry, cavalry archers, tanks?

Why should planes have guns when we have missiles now?

There will always, unless you wish to change that fundamental axiom in some way, be a reliability and versatility and thus a need for boots on the ground.

>>12067482
>Why didn't Cheney just nuke Iraq?
Because you can't have lucrative rebuilding contracts to give to your buddies if the target of your war doesn't exist anymore.

>>12067482
Just assume that it's not that far in the future and they want to save money.

oooooh just over halfway through, this book is testing my patience
>women asking for pensions
your fantasy is supposed to be beyond this nonsense

>>12067920
>>>/lgbt/

Which one of you guys is bullying Scalzi??

>>12068611
i wish i was. he just banned me when i asked him why he injected his political views into his books. and if it wouldnt be better to write the settings appropriate to each story he creates.

>>12067482
One of the only really outstanding parts of Starship Troopers deals with part of that:
>If you wanted to teach a baby a lesson, would you cut its head off? Of course not. You'd paddle it. There can be circumstances when it's just as foolish to hit an enemy city with an H-bomb as it would be to spank a baby with an axe. War is not violence and killing, pure and simple; war is controlled violence, for a purpose. The purpose of war is to support your government's decisions by force. The purpose is never to kill the enemy just to be killing him...but to make him do what you want to do. Not killing...but controlled and purposeful violence. But it's not your business or mine to decide the purpose of the control. It's never a soldier's business to decide when or where or how—or why—he fights; that belongs to the statesmen and the generals. The statesmen decide why and how much; the generals take it from there and tell us where and when and how. We supply the violence; other people—'older and wiser heads,' as they say—supply the control. Which is as it should be.

As to why they're structured like modern armies, well, generally with military science fiction there's a good chance the authors are veterans and thus writing what they know. This can even be seen in fantasy writing, the mercenary army in Sheepfarmer's Daughter for example is almost suspiciously modern, and oh guess what, the author was a Marine before she started writing. Glen Cook similarly had a bunch of stuff in Black Company that's very Vietnam war evocative, like IIRC at one point there's flying carpets done up with shark mouths like UH-1 gunships.

Just started this, see you guys in 2020.

>>12068849
please please please PLEASE be in london

>>12064555
>evoking BotNS and Blood Meridian in your book
>having your main character be a kid that slaps around men 2 feet taller and 100 pounds heavier than him
>having everyone in your fucking novel be a complete and absolute twat

>>12066167
It says something about a movie that I've only seen once that I recognize the specific scene this is from immediately.

>>12068849
Honey, that thumb over there is kind of weird.

>>12068651
Nothing wrong with injecting your politics in your book when you do it gently so it doesn't feel like a shoehorned piece of shit. Of course, Scalzi is about as subtle as Ayn Rand.

>>12067482
Just write something absolutely fucking nuts(see: war with the Ascians in the Citadel of the Autarch) and make up your reasons later

>>12068930
The Ascians were pretty dang neat. I really liked their language and the one guy's story.

>>12068855
>>12068908

its not me

>>12068611
All of us.

>>12064730
So fellowship of the ring but the ring is in the hands of the bad guys basically?
I'd read that to be honest, but the main character sounds boring as fuck. Weedy nerd to warchief is a boring as fuck progression.
Warchief to actual big bad of the world after killing the current big bad with the McGuffin is better and more modern as well (grimdark and all that). Try it, if you're going with the bad guys (gnolls killing and raping) go all the way. Don't make one of those killing and raping gnolls randomly be the nerdy type. Nerds are boring as shit.
If you want, make him a mutant and intelligent as fuck (and it fits with the whole warchief>big bad progression), and since he's so intelligent, he easily became warchief even if you don't wanna make him physically strong or violent.

Just something more interesting than another nerd to badass story. You're using gnolls for crying out loud, there's a lot of interesting stuff to be done with their race.

>>12064586
Boring as fuck. Plot over everything else. Don't get too sucked in world building and realism.

>>12065088
Ever heard of arabic?

>>12069068
i live in a country with the largest islam population in the world, why?

>>12069169
Arabs speak in local dialects and write in standard arabic, which for all intents and purposes is a whole different language.

>>12068849
Is this worth 21 bucks?
I've heard only the first 5 books are good.

>>12069220
The author died 20 years ago, you can pirate it without feeling bad anon.

>>12066289
Please respond.

>>12069268
Go and browse the winners and nominees in the novella and short stories categories of Hugos and Nebulas. I find that those categories unlike the best novel category are less likely to be rigged by sjw bullshit and are a good source of finding fresh material. I usually use them to find sci-fi short stories and novellas but I'm positive you can find some good fantasy material too.

>>12068849
That's a nice looking book.

>>12069290
>I find that those categories unlike the best novel category are less likely to be rigged by sjw bullshit and are a good source of finding fresh material.
Thanks m8, that actually makes a lot of sense, I'll start with that.

philosophy of mind matter and god, coupled with a discussion of meaning and how we come about it by virtue. i want to print it, i already found a print house and have about 50 pages. i have a shell publishing house.

there is a lot more to consider and i will add to it more. i need to read up more for it. just some reflections.

i am thinking perhaps i should wait a little longer to print it and read for a few years. but i am doing that already and i need to let some stuff out or i am scared it will all rot in the cage of my skull

>>12067482
Nigga can't you google that shit before you come here and throw a hissy fit? All of your questions can be answered at rocketpunk-manifesto.com in detail by people far more capable than you.
To give it a short summary:
- there will always be infantry cuz it's fun
- the infantry will always be structured hierarchically because there always has to be someone to yell at you due to grooming standards
- the supply train will grow in complexity because without said train there is no shooty tooty in space
- because near light weapons are (presuming you can actually create one) are strategic weapons
- you sound like a pussy ass bitch

>>12067482
>lol I don't understand the basic concept of science fiction

>>12067482
https://www.plot-generator.org.uk/create.php?type=10

there you go. this is the secret weapon of many authors.

>>12068849
>physical Amber book is THIS THICK
What the fuck, those individual books are ridiculously short.

>>12069052
I guess nerdy is the wrong word. He's more intelligent, more introspective, and less "let's just kill shit because it's fun and then eat it because I'm hungry and that's life." It's not so much that he seeks responsibility, that he is smart enough to realise when responsibility has been thrust upon him and arrogant/confident enough to refuse to give it up. To be honest I still haven't completely got a grip on him as a character. But he's a take-charge-leader-type.

>So fellowship of the ring but the ring is in the hands of the bad guys basically?
Yeah that's the goal, but I don't want to make them "the bad guys" I want them to be "the guys who do bad things." Basically, monsters out to prove how fucking great they are and how much better than the puny humans they are, but utterly failing to grasp the moral dimension of heroism.

More of a "fuck you we're doing it my way" kind of thing, where "my way" is comically violent and crude. So they leave a marauding trail of carnage behind them as they half-assedly make their way to Mount Doom while getting distracted by stupid shit along the way and everyone's trying to kill them.

>>12069638
Must be double spacing.

Finished reading this piece of shit yesterday, don't waste your time.

>>12069675
Are you saying anon from last thread lied?!

>>12069681

I did read this one first but after this I have no desire to even bother with the others. It's a slow, meandering book that is ultimately pointless and a waste of time. Not to mention Banks writes like a fucking teen fanfiction writer.

I want good scifantasy that doesn't pop up on this thread often.

Here are some of my very recent great/rare scifantasy finds of a slightly PKDish bent:
>The Half-Made World by Felix Gilman
>Early Riser (2018) by Jasper Fforde

Thoughts?

>>12069723
Chronicles of Chaos

>>12069725
A good to very good book. A worthy contribution to anyone's pirated ebook collection, whilst one hunts for the elusive great book.

>>12069725
>girl writer
lol come on. All the female writers worth reading are dead.

>>12069733
False

>>12069725
>jew golem and muzzie jinn win through the power of friendship
No thank you.

>>12069733
Robin Hobb and Lois McMaster Bujold are alive and well, shut your incel mouth,

>>12069734
More like Sarah J. Fatass.

>female wheel of time characters
What the fuck is their problem

>>12069773
Not enough dicking. The Aes Sedai did not invest enough in the dick infrastructure after Lews Therin Telamon debacle and look what happened.

>>12069790
>>12069790
>>12069790
this

>>12069773
Robert Jordan was their problem

>>12069790
>Berelain is one of the alright women
It adds up.

>>12069739
And they're both shit.

>>12065088
Yes, Sanskrit for example was used as a lingua franka, a language for trade, communication and religion, in South East Asia while the locals spoke their own languages.

>>12069773
you need to skip all female PoV chapters; also Perrin is female after a certain point robert jordan doesnt state this he just you form this opinion through literary devices ie how fucking trash his chapters become

>>12069734
i would try reading hers jist because she's cute

>>12067482
>Why would there be infantry in the far future?
to cull poos

>>12069937
Considering you need to skip all females, all later Perrin, middle Rand, almost everything in the desert and everything written by Sanderson you might as well quite the series after book one.

>>12064579
no it's not
>>12068894
it's not markie mark

In the distant future, mankind lives away from Earth within the utopian space station, Algo. With all their needs and wants care for by a “Mother” an advanced A.I. And The Forever Society, an order of super scientists which created all of it, the lives of those aboard the megastation are existences of abundance and chemical inebriation. The main character, a girl named Luma who races jet packs for sport begins to suspect things aren’t right behind the veil of the perfection.

When forces beyond her control draw her into the dealings of the Forever Society, Luma will find herself set on an adventure across new worlds and dimensions to protect Algo and those she cares for.


Brave New World meets The Rocketeer, meets golden age of science fiction.

I had a lot of commitments in Ictober so I didn’t get a lot done but now I’m back on track to get this thing done.
6 1/2 chapters now. I had a good ending planned but the other night I had a vivid dream of the end and now I have a MOTHERFUCKER of an ending. Super psyched.

>>12070170
Sounds kinda gay anon but best of luck. I hope you star a successful YA series and have a movie trilogy filmed.

>>12070170
Young adult + Female protag sounds gay as fuck desu

>>12064464
>tfw you fall for the Dune meme at least once a year

I really dont understand what anyone can find in that book. Even less why I give it a try practically once a year. I don't know who's more retarded

>>12070209
thats a man baby

>>12070229
Yes it is Austin! To illustrate the gayness of the book's premise. Kinda like this fine young man.

>>12070226
It's okay anon, you'll grow up eventually.

>>12069937
Mat truly is the best character

>>12070226
I liked the world building but I couldn't stand Paul or Jessica or the storyline

>>12070249
Until Sanderson started writing him, the fucking hack.

>>12070238
I hope so. I hope that with age my brain will acknowledge that most sci-fi readers are absolute crétins with no sense for beauty in prose and will read any old shite just because of the "world building" and "prose".

>>12065088
This is literally the way things currently are in the middle east. While the news, political speeches, and anything written will be in Modern Standard Arabic (Fusha) nobody actually speaks that in their own country. Every Arabic speaking nation has their unique form of dialect, which is only a spoken language, while anything written will be in MSA. I lived in Morocco during an exchange program and since all I knew was MSA, I could hardly talk to the average citizen.

>>12070265
>of the "world building" and "prose".
I meant "lore" instead of "prose".

>>12070261
No offense, I hadn't read you reply before I posted mine. I can understand why you would like Dune, as that's the reason why I'm lured into trying it at least once a year, but I cannot get past the high-school level of writing. I'd rather watch documentaries about Jodo's Dune a million times than read through the book once.

>>12070265
Of course you will being so Intelligent, Nihilistic and with a Wicked Sense of Humor.

>>12069790
all moraine needed was a good dicking to end shes endless nagging

>>12070287
Why are you taking offense in having shit taste?

>>12070272
> I can understand why you would like Dune
I didn't really like the book desu. It's definitely overrated.
That being said the reason why I picked up on its world-building is because it influences and inspires other sci-fi writers.
A book might be shit but if it has a significant impact on the genre then it's still an important book.
>>12070265
> most sci-fi readers are absolute crétins with no sense for beauty in prose and will read any old shite just because of the "world building" and "prose".
I like both. A good sci-fi book needs both prose, and world-building and lore.

>>12070299
>>>/lit/

>>12070359
bruh, I have news for you.....

>watching Sanderson's lectures

gonna make it

as a hack fantasy author

>>12070534
i'll read ur books fren

>>12070534
Say what you want about the quality of his work, dude churns out words every damn day. I'm not sure how devoted a mormon he is, because I can't imagine writing sober at the pace he's going.

>>12070534
If you make it anon you will be joining a distinguished brotherhood.

>>12069675
Nah you're a fag

>>12069725
It was okay. Needed more magic. Hate low magic books.

>>12070749
Why?

>>12070755
You can't have big tiddy magical waifus in low magical setting.

>>12070265
Wait till you read Wolfe.

Just finished all of the Song of Ice and Fire books, what do I do now how do I scratch the itch for ensemble cast storytelling and low fantasy is there anything else narrated by Roy Dotrice

>>12070249
>gets raped
>gets Stockholm syndrome

>>12070908
>wait
What do you mean? You really think I would go on /lit/ and start talking mad shit about scifi authors without having read Wolfe?

Cmon

>>12071051
Yeah i really wonder how people (especially smart ones who you might think should know better) love all these shitty authors. Even the classics suck.

>>12070265
>>12070299
>>12070908
Leave good prose to me

>>12071153
I honestly don't know either. I mean, as I said above, I can understand why people might like Dune or other genres that I don't particularly enjoy (pulp-era sci-fi), but I really don't understand why they're specifically praised by established authors for anything other than "good ideas", or "quick-to-read, fast-to-enjoy".

Each to their own tho.

>>12071153
it's pretty obvious to see from looking at /lit/. People here don't read to enjoy, they read to feel superior. /sffg/ is better about that, but only slightly

>>12071271
Superior to whom? Do you think they congregate in the nearest Starbucks while wearing tweed to discuss who read the most obscure work this weekend?

>>12071271
What if people can't enjoy a book that has things like

>"Eighe-e-e-e-e-e-e ! " Mapes wailed
and
>The key word was . . . maker
>Maker? Maker.

in it? Honestly I feel a bit perplexed about the fact that no one seems to notice that prose like above is found mainly in books written by either amateurs or literal teenagers. Like I really dont get it.

>>12071289
Dune definitely read like a young adult fiction book, almost like a kid's book, to me.

>>12071281
Yes.

>>12071281
Go to your nearest Starbucks and listen in.

>>12071325
>/lit/
>in Starbucks
If you're in London head down to the closest McDonalds and look for some depressed guy drinking coffee.

>>12071305
I wish they didn't congregate here. It's like listening to a broken record. Every last one of them is a walking, talking bottomless pit of insecurity. Not just here. /fit, /k, /v, /a - full of people who seem developmentally stuck at the start of puberty and horribly insecure. Of course this being 4chan they do nothing to actually gain some self-confidence.
At least /sp and /o are fairly normal.

I won't defend Dune as I found it mediocre. I won't even defend Peace because I've not read it. I will not even demand that any of you plebs change your minds and start enjoying Wolfe. But if you can't see that Wolfe is a great writer and a talented stylist (you don't have to enjoy his works to notice that) you are a functioning illiterate and probably a fan of Joe Abercrombie, Jim Butcher or someone equally bland.

>>12071374
Abercrombie is a several levels above Wolfe, you'd have to be literally blind to think otherwise.

>>12066289
>Who is a good fantasy writer of short stories?

Oldie but goodie - Jack Vance. His Dying Earth series started with a collection of short stories, and they're really solid. You can also track where D&D stole their shit from.

>Vancian spellcasting

>>12064464
Is more SF any better than modern fantasy?

>>12071362
But there’s also people like butterfly and Gaskun. He always encourages others to write and he does his own thing regardless of the haters

>>12071413
Blindsight is a complete wildcard that came out of nowhere and is arguably a contender for best SF novel of all time. Using it as an example of the current state of modern SF is like using a Bentley as a representative of modern cars.

>>12071413
Yes, but mainly because fewer authors actually write SF compared to fantasy which got hijacked by YA works.

>>12071440
how do we save fantasy from the YA menace?

>>12070132
I think they are banker Lawrence and joe

>>12071446
Keep love stories out of it

>>12071438
>Blindsight is a complete wildcard that came out of nowhere and is arguably a contender for best SF novel of all time.
now now, let's not push that too far.

>>12071429
That is true. It just gets tiresome seeing the same type of loser post again and again and again.
Go outside and try to be a human being instead.

>>12071446
You stop buying it.

>>12071452
I would point out that Rifters actually came out of nowhere.

>>12071331
Which McDonalds?

>>12071452
I know, I know. I was apprehensive when typing it but honestly I have to admit that it is a contender. Perhaps not the strongest one but the argument could certainly be made. It stands head and shoulders above basically all modern SF. There are some prominent issues (mostly to do with Watts' literary prowess eg. some of the dynamic scenes get a bit muddled) but in my opinion they are overshadowed by the ideas that it discusses, the consistent pacing and build up of tension, and the unique and interesting world that Watts imagines.

I think overall something like Star Maker would probably win out since it has a much more 'universal' set of ideas behind it rather than the niche topic of consciousness and how it relates to intelligence, but Blindsight is a fantastic piece of modern SF.

>>12071476
how dragged down is blindsight by its sequel? I heard echopraxia is not nearly as good.

>>12071468
>You stop buying it.
but I don't, other people are tho

>>12071386
>Abercrombie is a several levels above Wolfe
Fortunately I happen to have one of Abercrombie's short stories, Tough Times All Over, right in front of me so I can tell you exactly what is wrong with his writing. His sentences are short, basic and repetitive. Actually, he only write long sentences when he want to go for a stressed feeling and he does this by separating his short sentences with commas instead of full stops. All characters seem the same, they are swearing, capable (and when female, horny) hard asses and if it were not for the constant name dropping there would be no way of telling who is who. The story is also absurd and horribly generic. I hope you are baiting.

>>12071476
>dat feel when both of his books involve being stuck isolated in space with a vampire on-board that can snap you like a twig

Yuge NOPE.

>>12071470
No idea.

>>12071504
As our super intelligent friends with implacable taste that post here say - everyone else is a fucking retard.

>>12071468
How come Rifters trilogy is so incredibly underrated?

>>12071528
I find a colony organism of a super intelligent cancer far more disturbing.
Besides it really shows that Watts is a Canadian. Not one weapon was used in the novels.

>>12071495
It's not as good, but it is still an enjoyable read. Part of what made BS so good was the discussion of a genuinely interesting idea that the author had clearly researched quite a bit. Regardless of the fact that I (and the author by his own admission by the time he had finished writing BS) disagree with the premise put forward that consciousness ultimately hinders intelligence/thriving of an organism, it is undoubtedly a fascinating subject that is still very much open to debate.

EP is more about the action and adventure instead of discussing some deeper idea. The actual inclusion of echopraxia as a thing in the book doesn't occur until much later on compared to blindsight as a thing in BS, and when echopraxia does play a role it seems tangential, almost vestigial, like Watts realised he had a cool name for his book but had to fit it into the plot somehow.

People argue that echopraxia is happening right from the beginning of the but I disagree (though it's not something I hold against it as such).

I would say give it a read. BS is still the titan and EP doesn't make it worse in any way, it's just the EP didn't live up to the legacy, but honestly did anyone really expect it to? I don't imagine the third and final book will live up to BS but I'm definitely going to read it.

>>12071528
Vampires are one of the best things about the books. Was VERY skeptical about it when reading/hearing about BS/EP but reading it and the other stuff Watts wrote (and the fake lecture he made) about the vamps convinced me they're a cool and unique spin on things.

>>12071550
The sad truth is that people here just don't read if it's not some shitty fantasy or on Salon's top ten lists. Regarding the sheer number of cool concepts and characters, Rifters is way ahead even Blindopraxia.

>>12071446
Nothing short of stop buying it, but if top lists are any indication there is no way of doing that. Resuls are not in yet for 2018 and site in question is hardly a paragon of quality works, but just look up awards for previous years on Good Reads and try not to weep.

https://www.goodreads.com/choiceawards/best-books-2018

Average reader simply reads shit because it's popular.

>>12071468
>>12071550
>>12071566
Rifters is good but imo it doesn't have the 'oomph' that BS does. Hard to put my finger on it.

>>12071513
Try the First Law trilogy

>>12071558
Peter Watts for SF and China Mieville for fantasy might be some of the best representatives of their genres in my opinion. But like one anon said SF doesn't really have it THAT bad today.

>>12071528
Echopraxia had its moments.

>You are SOOO fucked.

>>12071599
Yeah but that is still Watts at the top of his game. While we are it why is no one mentioning the Freeze Frame Revolution? Or the Crysis 2 novel? Shit was wacked bro.

>>12071629
>China Mieville
Nah.

>>12071528
>>12071646
>tfw no Valerie gf
bet she'd be into femdom

>an entire religion based around using the planet's magic to either create their god or simply destroy the planet's magic by making everyone on the planet believe the same thing

What are the best religions in fantasy and sci-fi books?

>>12071613
Why on the earth would I read not one book, but an entire series by an author who, in my experience, have never written a decent story?

>>12071754
How would you otherwise know it's bad?

>>12071768
I don't know if it's bad or not and I have no desire to find out. I've read enough by him to form an opinion about his writing and since that opinion is that his writing is shit I won't read more by him.

>>12071801
It must be comfy being so superior to the common man.

>>12071822
>there must be some shady reason behind this
>no one can genuinely dislike my favourite author

>>12071852
Looking down on mere mortals from such rarefied heights. Is the lack of oxygen at such altitude affecting you? Would you even notice it?

>>12071852
It's possible to dislike something without being a giant prong.

>>12071878
>there must be some shady reason behind this
>no one can genuinely dislike my favourite author

>>12071977
Shady reason? I was just calling you a brain damaged tard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_high_altitude_on_humans
Way to kill the bantz anon. I guess that's enough overblown pretentiousness for today.

>>12070534
theyre bretty good

>>12072041
Abloo abloo, stop being a giant prong.

>>12071689

I always liked the pagan matriarchal fertility cult in Flesh by Philip Jose Farmer, pretty well etched out on several levels from the scheming higher ups to the common follower.

>>12072069
I know I'll never be up to your standards anon but I'll do my best.

>Get into bed, get a ton of ideas and feel like writing.
>Get out of bed, feel like I can't pull off the ideas, don't feel like writing
How do I stop this cycle?

>>12072287
You give up anon.

Was Robert Jordan bullied in school?
All of his characters are spergs around women, all of his women are cunts, the most badass warriors in the series are all willing slaves to women, and the only chad in the series gets obliterated out of history.

>>12072304
I think I read somewhere that he was straight up tortured by his older sisters.
I can't be bothered to look it up tho.

I need a new book. Ka ended up being too boring to hold my attention long enough to make progress, and The Bone Witch somehow managed to turn necromancy into a little girl's princess fantasy

any recs?

>>12072325
Throne of Glass by Sarah J. Fatass.

>>12072287
What I do is keep a document open at all times just for rough sentences of ideas. Whenever I get an awesome idea or even an exchange, dialogue, scene, description, etc, I just write that on the document to be used later, when I'm more focused on writing alone. Depending on how much time I have, I add a description note alongside what I've written, just so I know in the future what was I thinking and what are the relations, which scenes is the thing related to, characters, all that.
When you have a good idea you don't need to write that shit in the actual novel document. I fact I never do it outright.

>>12069602
Bullshit, it won’t let you use rape as a crime

>>12072287
Narrate the ideas into your phone then go to sleep.

>>12072325
Bakker

>>12071281
To other people.

What do y'all think about chapter length? I've mostly just been trying to break things up according to major scene changes, but my chapters are averaging about 5,500 words.

Is neuromancer good? I want them good cassette futurism

*emits killing intent*

>>12072840
Usually I don't give a shit either way as long as it's good, but if you're able vary it meaningfully, it can add a lot. An extreme example would be
>Nothing much else happened, all the rest of that night.
in Something Wicked this way comes. It'd be bland if he just ended a chapter with it, but to have it as a chapter of its own makes an impact.

>>12072897
It's very good but the style that bombards you with brand names and technobabble without outright explaining much seems to get some people upset too.

>>12072917
I-it can’t be! Why does a child have such killing intent?!?

>>12072840
My chapter length varies, but I try to give all my chapters a beginning, a middle, and an end. Each one is its own little story in the broader narrative.

>>12072897
I love Neuromancer

>>12072287
Write anyway because you can't get better at writing unless you actually write. It won't be great at first but writing is like a muscle, you grow stronger and it gets easier.

>>12072304
His only significant relationships with women were his mother and his wife. WoT probably gives a pretty good idea of what was going on.

>>12064464
I'm writing a book y'all are gonna hate, a YA medievalesque fantasy full of girl power that I'll send round to agents to get traditionally published. It might end up being New Adult instead of YA. I envision it as longer than a trilogy. It'll probably be successful.

>>12073207
>It'll probably be successful.
Let's be honest, this is the part that'll get hated the most

>>12073207
>a YA medievalesque fantasy full of girl power

surely this market is well beyond oversaturated by now, right?

>>12073207
>y'all
dropped

>>12073397
y'all is a perfectly serviceable contraction

>>12073397
>Not using the only legitimate second person plural form of you.
Get fucked.

>>12073294
Characterization is one of my stronger points so I think that will be the hook to draw readers in and tell their friends about the characters they love. Yeah they will be skilled but have actual personalities instead of "beautiful but thinks she isn't" and "good at everything she tries" and "rolls her eyes a lot".

>>12073397
Dammit there goes my Yelp score.

>>12073573
Don't forget the "thief who looks down on nobles", and "orphan girl who wants to kill the king."

>>12073414
>>12073570
kys

>>12073651
Fuck off Yankee

>>12064464
I'm still procrastinating on the wandering chef idea I've posted here. I'm hesitating to sit down and write when I feel like I should be trying to get my first book published, but I'm also hesitating on that because I don't want to deal with it anymore.

>>12073294

I wish writers (or maybe publishers) understood that the phrase "strong female character" doesn't have to be literal.

Hermione is a strong female character. Lyra is a strong female character. Neither of them are cold, cynical girls with resting bitchface who could kick your ass in a fight, but they're interesting, courageous, and capable of rescuing themselves most of the time.

We don't need more Vins, more Aryas, more Katnisses. We need characters with emotional depth, varied skillsets and quick wits

>>12069062
sometimes I think if I could just get really good at inventing plots, all I'd have to do then is just smash out a couple or three novellas and I'd be in the game.

>>12073920
>Neither of them are cold, cynical girls with resting bitchface
Hermione certainly had some of that going on until the other two get to know her properly.

>>12069638

there is ten of them

What are your thoughts on Wheel of Time? I'm new to fantasy /lit/ and they seem interesting

>>12074390
Too long for its own good. People think GRRM pads out his books with description, but he ain't got shit on Jordan. That man made a living selling entire BOOKS for padding.

>>12071396
I've been meaning to read that, actually.
I rather liked Lyonesse, I'm sure this will be good too.

>>12071396
is there a collection with all of the dying earth stories in one?

>>12074475
I think Tales of the Dying Earth omnibus collects all of his Dying Earth stuff or almost all of it considering you're looking at 700+ pages. But if you just want a dip, his ORIGINAL short stories are collected in The Dying Earth.

>>12066199
Also: Mass murder, mass rape, mass necrophilia and mass cannibalism (perpetrated by the protagonists)

>>12074521
Anime is so bad.

>>12074533
>putting your mana in a guy's ass

>>12074390
Harry Potter with lofty ideas about itself.

>>12074703
>Harry Potter with lofty ideas about itself
So, Harry Potter?

>>12074390
Don't fall for the epic fantasy meme. You'll spend half a year getting emotionally attached to a series and when you eventually realize that it's shit it's to late.

>>12074700
Sounds about as retarded as most magic systems.

>>12074716
>emotionally attached
To waifus?

>>12066218
looks like female drizzt lol.

Guys, what would be the drawbacks of having a school of magic relying on changing one's mass if it's entirely tied to the narrative?
I know the one sandboi has weight based magic in mistborn and gravity based magic in stormlight.
Another school of magic is fire (basically ignition, explosion, laser and plasma weapons disguised as magic for the common folk)
The the last school of magic is the use of potions, poisons, mind-altering drugs, chemically-altering elixirs and brews. Basically alchemy in layman's terms but it's not alchemy as alchemy would rely more on protoscience and discovery of chemical properties of materials.

>>12072840
It's only arbitrary. I don't think most people care whether you have chapters at all, let alone the length, assuming you don't write multiple POV.

>I write a chapter for every line of dialogue a character has
Man, I loved Bakker but the end of The Thousandfold Thought was so irritating to the eyes.

>>12074745
To characters, the world, everything. It doesn't really matter if you like it or not, if you spend hundreds of hours reading about something you will form a bond to it.

>>12074745
>Sounds about as retarded as most magic systems
You did read the doujin you posted right?

>>12074765
Better than Drizzt even.

>>12074798
No I won't. With shit writing there is nothing to get attached to in the first place. And while we are at it, why would anyone sane spend so much time reading about something he does not like? What a colossal waste of time.

>>12074802
Yes and it's short and sweet in it's retardation compared to monumental works of magical idiocy in popular fantasy, spreadsheets in litRPG or whatever other badly written crap brewing in Amazon's bowels.

>>12074438
GRRM pads out his books with food descriptions.

>>12074796
Still the best book in the series

>>12074996
>With shit writing there is nothing to get attached to in the first place
Yes there is. You value your time. Once you've read three books you're very likely to read a fourth even if it's shit just so you have not "wasted" the time spend reading the first three. And when you've finished the entire series of shit you'll defend it online so people won't think you've spent ages reading shit.

>that one fantasy book you read a thousand times as a kid and only you ever seemed to know about..
>...that you re read as an adult and it was a real letdown
What's her name /lit/?

Dragoncharm

>>12075070
So sunk cost fallacy? That's all fine and well but whatever gave you the idea I would read three novels and go balls deep into something I don't particularly like?
Once an author screws the pooch one time too many, you drop him and move on. It's not that alien of a concept unless you suffer from OCD.

>>12074438
Yes, but Grum avoids becoming another Jordan by just not writing at all.

>>12075127
Jordan only padded for the monies, after he established a solid fan base like around book 6 his only goal was to milk them by as long as possible, hence the slog in the middle. Grum on the other hand doesn't need the money any more so he doesn't give a fuck.

>>12074390
Seriously not worth reading, it's shit

Why does /sffg/ hate Sanderson so much?

>>12075152
Really?
Who can hate such a prolific wordsmith?

>>12064464
Is there any Frank Herbert or Philip K Dick tier science fiction being published today?

>>12075181
Poorly written and idolized by progressives? Say no more, I got you covered.

>>12075201
What do you read?

>>12075181
I was gonna funpost and suggest Throne of Glass but this dude >>12075201 beat me to it.

>>12075209
Okay, what do you read?

>>12075223
At this very moment A Rumor of War by Philip Caputo.

>>12075152
He's the Big Bang Theory of fantasy.

>>12075152
It's more balanced than you think.

Is there a good PDF copy of this somewhere? I can't find it in the usual places.

>>12075323
well yeah, this place has gone to shit

>>12075524
>if you don't share my views you are shit
>>>/pol/
You guys are so easy to spot. You don't even read, so I don't know why you lurk in our general.

I need new litprg-esque books. Please recommend.

>>12075715
List ones you've read and liked. Also didn't like.

>>12075733
everything recommended in sffg, even the obscure shit. i need ones that are not rec'd here.

>>12075747
This?

Why didn't you people tell me about this series earlier?
It's the greatest I've ever read.

>>12075818
If I'd known the rape scene was that hot I'd have read it ages ago

>>12075715
System apocalypse

>>12075788
Rule of thumb is to never again touch anything by Drew Hayes.

>>12075823
>implying
You have upped your shill game, Mr Shill, but that is a YA book. No way the publishers would put that in when a bunch of tweens are reading it.

>>12075869
this.

>>12075715
the bathrobe knight
sidequest in realms ungoogled
death by cliche
the blue mage raised by dragons

How do I talk normies into BotNS?

>>12075865
>System apocalypse
>ching a chow pow
Hesitant.. I will give it a try and see

>>12075898
Are these "gud"? I don't want books like that Daniel fag did when he focused on fluff and Shakespeare to fill pages..

Why haven't you read Daniel Black guys?

NEW THREAD

>>12075953
>>12075953
>>12075953
>>12075953

>>12075869
Nah, he's fun. The only books of his that are truly terrible is the published stuff

>>12075937
blue mage raised by dragons and sidequest in realms ungoogled are great. heavent read the other ones.