/lit/ - Literature

>>12039466

He represents a complete lack of $10 words. Sad, really.

>>12039466
If you’re an American writer from the South you automatically mog everyone except the people from New England

>>12039509
fucking hell didn't expect to laugh like that

>>12039541
based and redpilled

>>12039840
personally, i think its because he was a white man

>>12039466
>faukner [sic]

Hemingway served on the Italian Front during the First World War, was injured and was awarded an Italian medal for bravery.

Faulkner, on the other hand...
>Unable to join the United States Army due to his height (he was 5' 5½"), Faulkner enlisted in a reservist unit of the British Army in Toronto.[11] Despite his claims, records indicate that Faulkner was never actually a member of the British Royal Flying Corps and never saw service during the First World War

Hemingway knew James Joyce in Paris.

Faulkner tried to impersonate James Joyce.

Hemingway took Modernism in a new direction, creating a literary style based on externalization and ellipsis, a natural outcome of Eliot's notion of the objective correlative.

Faulkner experimented with stream of consciousness, an easy-to-imitate style that Joyce and Woolf had already perfected.

Hemingway's influence as a writer is still felt on American literature. He is still imitated by writers who fail to understand the nuances and the subtle ironies of his works. Go to any bookstore, anywhere in the world, and you will find hundreds, if not thousands of books that strive to attain the concise, spare style of Hemingway's writing. Like all truly great writers, his style is relentlessly copied and parodied to this day.

Faulkner is popular among Reddit users and American undergraduates.

>>12039509
10/10 laughed my guts out

>>12039931
spotted the pleb lol. and no its faukner. trust me i read him in my ap lit class

What is Hemingway's best and most experimental work?

Hemingway is tedious, lethally boring.
Faulkner is formally a try hard but at least he's thematically interesting.

>>12040008
>most experimental
What the fuck do you mean by this?

All genuinely great literature is an experiment with some original form of expression.

>>12039931
Faulkner is the ultimate reddit filter, they hate The Sound and the Fury and, for some reason, especially As I Lay Dying

>>12039931
>Hemingway took Modernism in a new direction, creating a literary style based on externalization and ellipsis, a natural outcome of Eliot's notion of the objective correlative.
>Faulkner experimented with stream of consciousness, an easy-to-imitate style that Joyce and Woolf had already perfected.
Yikes

>>12040086
Well if you look at it you can see Finnegans wake more experimental in contrast with A Portrait of a young man, that's why I asked

>>12039931
>Hemingway took Modernism in a new direction, creating a literary style based on externalization and ellipsis, a natural outcome of Eliot's notion of the objective correlative.

barf

>>12040058
i dunno dude i just read like a hundred pages from the perspective of a mental retard and im ready to put this shit down

>>12039509
one of the funniest things ive ever read on this site thanks anon

>>12039931
>5' 5½
How tall is that in non-burger measurements?

>>12041514
Youre gonna love Quentin's section

>>12041560
166cm

>>12039621
>>12039979
>>12041528

>(You)
>(You)
>(You)

>>12039931
Based. Full of facts.

>>12040058
Ur a faggot for both statements

>>12039509
Why did Hemingway get so depressed lads?
Was that nurse leaving him for another man such a big deal for him?

>>12041614
He had a family history of depression. Several members of his family have committed suicide.

Unfortunately I'm in the same situation. My great grandfather, grandfather, uncle, and first cousin have all committed suicide. I have my bad days but so far I've never contemplated suicide. Wish me luck anons!

>>12041576
how does quentin somehow read as more retarded than the retarded person

just fuck ur sister dude

>>12040703

Joyce's Ulysses was published in 1922.

Faulkner didn't start writing his shitty American impersonation until 1928. Stream of consciousness had been around for 6 years. For 6 years writers had already been mimicking Joyce's innovation. Woolf had published Mrs Dalloway in 1925. Stream of consciousness was not new.

Faulkner did nothing new. He took Ulysses, ignored its rigorous engagement with linguistic history and the classical tradition, and copied one of its stylistic innovations (stream of consciousness). Faulkner did nothing but dress up the stream of consciousness in American clothing. He added American settings and elements of American dialects. He was a literary footnote. He was not a great writer.

Americans only admire Faulkner's work because of parochialism, ignorance, the fact that they probably haven't even read Joyce, and the fact that they can only relate to stories about people who go to Harvard and tell each other to "hush" and "go round yonder" and other superficial American bullshit.

The fact is, America failed to produce the great Modernist novel,and then hacks like Faulkner desperately attempted to pretend they had, 6 years too late.

America had its place in the literature of that time. Hemingway's The Sun Also Rises (1926) represented a new and distinct voice, and made no attempt to parrot the works of previous writers. He was a relatively minor figure in Modernism - but he made a valuable contribution nevertheless. Probably the most significant American writer of that time was Ezra Pound, who was publishing enormously original and influential poetry.

Americans should accept the role they had, and not try to recast themselves as the great novelists of the 20th Century. It's just not true.

>>12041905
Good luck anon.

>>12042917
I hoped this was pasta but it's too specific. To compare Faulkner's use of stream of consciousness to Joyce's is to compare the Pieta to some art major's freshman project

>>12042940
>To compare Faulkner's use of stream of consciousness to Joyce's is to compare the Pieta to some art major's freshman project

expand on this
NOW

>>12039509
>tfw hemingway could have not suicided if he heard "yeah i know sucks man i'm here for you bro" instead of being the victim of a stupid pie in the face gag

>>12042976
Joyce's stream of consciousness is one small part of the genius of Ulysses. As such, the technique often takes a backseat and is used in support of Joyce's alliteration, lyricality, tone, etc.

Faulkner's stream of consciousness is incomparably more well-developed and personal. Faulkner doesn't use stream of consciousness as one technique to reinforce and mesh with others, stream of consciousness is the primary means by which he tells Benjy's and Quentin's story: so much so that he forms his writing to fit with it (italics, lack of grammar and punctuation, sentence fragments, abrupt change in though).

Take any given example of Joyce's use of the technique and its obvious. (post em if you want) It's sparse and unrefined and simply a vehicle for other techniques compared to Faulkner's. The fact that Faulkner's writing can and does look on the surface so nonsensical and unorganized and yet reads so fluidly and coherently is just further proof (Joyce's never appears that way to that extent in Ulysses, won't speak for Finnegans Wake because I haven't read it). Not that that means Joyce is at all bad: he just shows off his genius elsewhere.

There is no stream of consciousness that's better than Faulkner's. He's a lot more like Woolf than he is like Joyce anyways in his use. On that note, Woolf was great but even her stream of consciousness is much less visceral-appearing and much more dreamlike and whimsical than Faulkner's brutal and realistic and fragmented use.

Sorry for the shit organization I'm phoneposting

>>12043043
Also note how Faulkner's stream of consciousness spans entire pages and sections of the novel (the entirety of Benjy's and large portions of Quentin's), whereas Joyce's uses are much smaller in scope. This is partly why I say Faulkner is closer to Woolf, especially in The Waves

>>12043043
>Joyce's alliteration, lyricality, tone, etc.

If this is your definition of "Joyce's genius", then I completely understand why Faulkner may be more your speed.

>Take any given example of Joyce's use of the technique and its obvious. (post em if you want) It's sparse and unrefined and simply a vehicle for other techniques compared to Faulkner's

You have obviously never read Ulysses.

Joyce uses multiple forms of stream of consciousness. There is Bloom's stream of consciousness, which is markedly different in register, lexicon, and logical structure to Stephen's stream of consciousness. Then there are multiple other iterations of stream of consciousness for other minor characters. I suggest you take a look at the "Wandering Rocks" chapter, in which he moves between nineteen different perspectives, all with their own subtle differences in language and emphasis. Then turn to the final chapter "Penelope". Molly Bloom's stream of consciousness is again totally different, and is a remarkable example of Joyce's control of sound and rhythm in his prose. Not only does he express her utterly distinct way of viewing the world, he creates an impression of a mind drifting into sleep.

Once you have examined these 22 iterations of the stream of consciousness and their various differences, and considered that Joyce was able to produce this while engaging in extended formal parodies and classical allusions, while writing sentences of genuine lyrical beauty, you may begin to realize what a great novel actually looks like.

I don't really care that you find Faulkner's third-rate tribute act "readable". The fact is, it had already been done. He just did it again with American characters.

>>12043062
https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/j/joyce/james/j8u/episode18.html

ignorant Faulknerfag hasn't actually read Joyce

>>12043123
>Mina Purefoys husband give us a swing out of your whiskers filling her up with a child or twins once a year as regular as the clock always with a smell of children off her the one they called budgers or something like a nigger with a shock of hair on it Jesusjack the child is a black

jimjam, thou art truly greater

>>12043101
Okay anon keep sucking his dick in your fantasy world I won't stop you ;)

Ulysses' themes are literally as deep as a puddle made in asphalt in the rain
Faulkner is superior

>>12043145
>themes
high schooler detected

>>12043145
the puddle is in this though

>>12043147
>muh pretty language
This is the extent of Joyce's depth. He has nothing interesting to say about anything. By his own admission: "I write books that are hard to read so I'll be famous". Definition of a pseud. Sorry to burst your bubble kid.

>>12042917
Mrs. Dalloway doesn't employ stream of consciousness in a manner anywhere near Ulysses or The Sound and the Fury. Bad example.

>>12044270
Exactly, Woolf actually attempted to take stream of consciousness in a new direction. She didn't just shamelessly rip off the style of Ulysses and apply it to a different setting and characters.

>>12044276
yikes

>muh love is the word known to all men
>muh scholars are gonna be working on this one for years
Joyce is a hack. He's like Nabokov only he writes a little prettier and has even less to say

>>12041905
Good luck, when bad days happen remember good days

>>12041601
Nope

>>12042917
Faulkner sniffed the tobacco burning in his pipe. James Joyce sniffed farts

>>12044270
to the lighthouse would have been a better example

>>12046107
this