/lit/ - Literature

Homer was definitely based and redpilled. There was not a single sign of alternative gender roles or subversion to authority in his works that could be regarded as even implicit approval of these liberal ideological positions, unlike in Sophocles or Aristophanes, for example.

>>12034344
>zuckerberg
Imagine my shock. But yeah it's pretty much impossible to twist Homer into anything even vaguely left wing

What even is the point of that article? Is it to debase homers work because he’s enjoyed by “radical online conservatives”? Or maybe it’s to help people identify conservatives by showing general characteristics of them? Or maybe she’s trying to show that Homer causes people to adopt right-wig beliefs?
I don’t know where I’m going with this. The article is written by a stupid monkey for even stupider monkeys.

>>12034344
/litpol/ BTFO

>>12034344
god I wish the right wing would properly read homer, maybe they'd be respectable. they diminish the magnificence of his works by boiling it down to mere politics (being 'based and redpilled')
>>12034360
perfect example

>>12034344
>question mark on an imperative sentence

>>12034385

She wants to police the appropriation of the classics.

>>12034385
stop reading whitey literature, they are dead

>>12034344
there shouldn't be a question mark there.

these people need to be rounded up and driven into the sea

>>12034432
striving to be the basedest and redpillest among the based and redpilled is the most honorable thing a man can devote his life to.

>>12034360
>There was not a single sign of alternative gender roles
are you retarded? Athena
>or subversion to authority
literally everything Odysseus does

>>12034360
based literal retard

>>12034344
how can conservatives be radicals?

>silicon valley
>author of "not all dead white men"
>Zuckerburg
>colored hair
What a credible and sane person the journalist is?

literal sister of facebook dude

>>12034510
t. Homer

>>12034385
>What even is the point of that article?

to get clicks. remember that the next time you see some idiotic article - the next time you see something incredibly divisive, offensive, outrageous or downright stupid. remember that the sole purpose of this "outrage generator" is to get clicks. to make money. it's not some grand conspiracy of jews or russian bots orchestrating societal collapse decades in the making. no, it's just another industry.

>>12034344
The alt-right is a movement fostered/exaggerated by intelligence agencies and biased fascist leftist media. They try to cover up genuine conservative critiques of the modern world by instigating Neo-Nazism/making it seem like all conservatives are Neo-Nazis/pushing people dissatisfied with the modern world into a sort of Neo-Nazism to discredit them.

We’re all fucking screwed. The idiot masses lap up this psychopathic SJW vs. Alt-right narrative as if they’re the only things one can be, driven by the media and intelligence agencies to push the masses into an idiotic state of rage and fear so they can’t understand actual serious issues like the police state and growing technological surveillance being pushed under the guise of protecting us from terrorism (terrorism itself probably largely being false-flag attacks by our very own intelligence agencies), the fact that modern life is extremely unhealthy and sedentary and all the chemicals in processed food give you cancer and rot your brain and shorten your lifespan, and chemicals in these and drinking and tap water disrupt hormones and reduce fertility, all possibly as part of some subtle genocide program, and we’re destroying the fucking environment on top of that. And new generations are all addicted to things like television/Netflix, smartphones, social media, the internet etc leading to unprecedented levels of mental illness in the youth. This is “””””treated””””” with extremely unhealthy and soul-destroying medications pushed by the corrupt pharmaceutical industry, drugs which can cause people to go even more insane or to be hooked on them or to have psychotic breaks etc

I hate you all so fucking much. I hate you all so fucking much. Go die in a fucking hole. Stop coming on the Internet. Stop thinking any of this shit is important. Stop talking about your stupid next thing you saw in the news while the whole world is fucking dying.

>>12035267
Yet our average lifespan has never been that high.

But yeah we are pretty much screwed. Too much shit going on and no real positive progress.

>>12034481
It's not clear which people you mean, but I probably agree

>>12034667
When they advocate radical change in order to return to a (presumed) previous condition.

>>12034667
>>12035361
...or potentially conserve one thing deemed more important (eg the social position of white people) through radical change to something deemed less important (eg political structures).

>>12035267
why are right wingers so mentally ill? you vent about muh kids are watching netflix and playing vidya instead of doing drugs and being criminals when we literally have only 40% the amount of animals on the planet compared to 1970

>>12034374
Based retard doesn't know about Marx and that fucker at the beginning of the Iliad who says all the aristocrats are idiots.

>>12034577
>Athena
She doesn't become mortal.
>literally everything Odysseus does
Like beating Tersites with his scepter because he wanted to vote Clinton?

>>12037020
Or when Odysseus refused to date rape Nausicaa because he knew about the #metoo movement and didn’t want his life ruined?

>>12034667
Embracing Ancient Greek culture would be radical to someone who thinks gay sex is a sin.

I like how liberals get to move their views left and then call my views radical. Anyone with two brain cells can see how fucking retarded modern liberalism is, and yet they are the loudest and gain the most traction and get to decide what is radical and what isnt

>>12034360
> who is athena
lol ideology is as ideology does

>>12034706
She's Mark's sister.

>>12037059
Liberals aren't actually moving their views left. And leftists aren't calling you radical because they know that they're radical too.
t. Leftist who hates Liberals as much as you do

>>12037059
Screaming "ooga booga whypipo" isn't moving to the left at all. Liberal identity politics have colonized and cannibalized the left.

>>12034385
Homer is a dead white man, so reading him makes you a privileged racist misogynist

The correct way to read the greeks is as them advocating multiracial democracy and gender confusion

Reminder that the canon should be read for their aesthetic, not ethical values

>>12037065
An extension of Zeus' will who carries out his designs, whenever Zeus isn't pleased with, and threatens, her and Hera she shuts the fuck up, not daring to talk back to daddy and his almighty pimp hand

>>12037124
I was surprised at how straight forward Zeus is in the Iliad with his power. If his bitch wife doesn't stop undermining him, he'll slap her so hard she'll fall of Olympus and land in the Aegean, creating a new island with her fat ass.

>>12037057
slid that one right in they're

>>12036971
thersites is speaking out of place at a crucial time when the men are being tested,he is unaware of what high command is doing.this occurs today when soldiers gripe about maneuvers being the pawns they are can not see the scope of it all.anyway he says the same as achilles but its based nestor who has the right opinion concerning the argument

>>12037221
Look Marx's reading was certainly not the most likely one, but it's a fuck of a lot less brainlet than yours.

>>12037226
this isn't an actual reply, you would have to explain why anon's reading doesn't make sense, you can't just assert things with no argument

>>12037234
But I'm laaaaazy.

>>12034360
homer was NOT based NOR redpilled
he made all the manliest smartest bestest men he wrote CRY in PUBLIC like some sissy faggots

>>12037057
the soldiers of king phillip 2nd got ordered not to joke and laugh at the elite all gay athenian army they had just defeated because the fought honorably to the last man.

plato envisioned a not gay republic

homosexuality was ridiculed often in ancient Greek culture

>>12037246
ohh the humanity.....

>>12035278
I think that after the coming ecological disaster/global war the remaining people (probably in Uruguay or the Falkland islands) will have a chance to rebuild society

>>12037111
who was reading the Iliad for its Greek Dark Age ethical values?

>>12037255
And still there are countless accounts of teacher-student relationships.

I'm not saying it was popularised (well, maybe a bit in the upper social classes) or thought of as completely normal, but it definitely was a niche part of the culture. If it wasn't you wouldn't have Plato using it as a foundation for one of his books, nor would it be depicted in pottery.

>>12034344
>Jewish woman with unnatural hair color hates Western culture and literature
you don't say

>>12036971
How did you even solve the captcha

>>12035267
>The alt-right is a movement fostered/exaggerated by intelligence agencies

>>12034344
I've been wondering when this would happen. It's true, the alt-right wants a return to classics and avoids the new. They see postmodernism as the enemy and strive for the opposite, disregarding anything after 1960, which is pretty postmodern of them.

>>12034360
what about achilles and patroclus being faggots

You know what fuck everyone. Fuck the left who spends more time just trying to figure out what the "alt right" likes and cataloging it so they can right stupid articles like this so people know what not to like. Oh shit those crazy interment nazi's like Homer. That means we have to burn all our copies of the Illiad and Odyssey and stop teaching it in schools. Also means anyone who admits to reading/liking Homer from this point on is a nazi and should be publically shamed into infinity. Fuck this shit I want off.

>>12036875

Good. All non-human life forms should be eradicated from the Universe so that humans can reign supreme as they ought to.

>>12038137
>non-human life forms
Does that include women, too?

>>12038113
It's ironic that someone who posts on /lit/ doesn't fucking read. Or don't read, I mean it is clickbait, but as clickbait you should know that the inflammatory headline isn't genuine and the content probably doesn't advocate any of what you posted.

>>12034344
No surprise here. Liberals love slave morality, so of course they’d be opposed to traditional Greek values. The brainlet army fears Homeric tradition.

>>12038168
They do love the buttfucking orgy aspect of ancient greece though

>>12036971
aristocrats are not the right wing

>>12038113
You haven't unraveled the truth. 4chan is a pure psyop board to run surveys on biased targets. Your comment is quite motivating to them. They want a system of self disqualification so you seek one of the other environments, in this case they'd've preferred if you just nicked yourself. Could you blame them? The world is well on its way to being /nazi/, /jew/, /sjw/, and /new/. Check out now!

>Everywhere I go I hear about positions of power and privilidge

boys theyre trying to drive us mad. Dont entertain nonsense bullshit like this article. Be steadfast.

>>12037111
trips confirm

>>12034344
So what she saying? Should we burn the books? Jesus Christ I thought this faggits hated Hitler for burning books whats up with this?

Come on /lit/, every day it's the same shit
>hurr durr the libs don't like this book
>based and redpilled spam
>spamming anti-semetic books
> "lol the jews are only problem in the western world"
>ayn rand ass kissing
> "what book are you reading and how old are you" low effort threads
>Blog posts from some loser in london or a fuckboy in princeton
What happened? Literally the only good thread has been an accelerationism discussion for the 50th time, are all of you pretending to be retarded or did all the good posters finally escape this hellhole?

>>12034759
WaPo doesn't make money lmao. MSM are just PR companies for big business. Bezos uses WaPo to control public opinion and serve his own interests. NYT doesn't make shit, Buzzfeed is closing down offices, the list goes on. """""""news"""""""""" media barely makes shit for cash.

>>12034667
More correct to term "conservative radicals"

>>12038716
antisemitic books are the best books

>>12038823
No they aren't
I read the culture of critique to give the people the benefit of the doubt and it was utter shit. The quality of this board is tanking hard, you can't even have a thread about african literature without nigger being spammed over and over.

>>12038089
alt-right are not the sole nor best enemy of postmodernism

>>12038834
>coc shit
>african literature
oh you

>>12038842
It's better than what /pol/ has to offer i can tell you that much.

>>12037059
>liberals moving their views left
they’re definitely moving towards authoritarianism

>>12038834
>complaining about not being able to discuss african literature on 4chan
Did you get lost on the way to r/literature? Seriously, you'd love it there. It's moderated by feminists and commies. I'm not using those terms as pejoratives, that's literally how they describe themselves.

>>12038905
It wasn't always like this
>>/lit/thread/S2784410#p2784636
things were better back then

>>12037027
this is the perfect post
my gods

>>12038102
there is nothing more based than erotic love between two masculine 'hetero' men

the guy who runs the 'history of ancient greece' podcast claims that Herodotus has become an alt right symbol by a bunch of people who troll his twitter

>>12034344
once i was interviewed for attending some dumb get together and I said " i thought it was a book club meeting" and i pulled out a copy of plutarch that I happened to be reading.

>>12038113
>they can right stupid articles
>interment
>nazi's

>>12034510
my sides.

>>12037059
>>12037075
>liberals
>left

>>12035267
any time I see "the masses" used unironically I just think of those boomers who also say "sheeple" and think they're really smart because they read 1984

>>12038912
It was better in the sense that there was more on topic discussion. Racism doesn't bother me but I'd like to see people actually discussing books.

>>12034344
The Greeks meme shows that the Western World is unable to look past 0AD (an excellent Linux game by the way), when in reality, the Romans took from the Greeks, the Greeks took from the Troyans, the Troyans took from the Hittites, the Hittites took from the Assyrians, the Assyrians took from the Babylonians, the Babylonians took from the Sumerians. And that's just the near east. There's a whole world much bigger than Europe starting with the Indus Valley. All this time when we were in wood huts, they had cities and literature already.

tl;dr you are selecting only half of the entire body of historically relevant literature by starting with the Greeks

>>12034344
No wonder his works are so fucking boring.

>>12034385
click bait is unoricnally considered serious journalism these days

>>12039133
Okay, snowflake. Which non-offending term do you prefer?

>>12035278
Our lifespan is predicted to decline to due our shit diets. All in all our generation is predicted to be worse off than our parents.

I wonder if it’s connected to low white/high minority birth rates, along with education, technical job skills, taxes, and a host of other issues. No, it has to be the fault of the white patriarchy.

>>12039463
Jeffrey Dahmer got so strong from eating other people

>>12039427
primary sources from ancient Greece are scarce enough..

Is it bad if I consider Jewish writers to be inherently biased to begin with. I don't want to, but experience taught me otherwise. For example, I used to like this medieval history book by Barbara Tuchman, but now I see the stronger message behind it.

Homer is a nazi and probably voted republican

>>12035267
Nigga why do you care?
Eventually everything will collapse and we will get a hard reset, sure billions of people will probably die, but nature will get a huge break and forests will regrow and animals will proliferate. Even Genghis Khan, one man, had a significant impact on the environment. It's said he removed 700m tonnes of carbon from the atmosphere because he murdered all the farmers allowing previously populated and cultivated land to return to carbon-absorbing forest.
And even though there are literally trillions of pieces of plastic in the ocean, there are now bacteria that are evolving to eat plastic.
http://science.sciencemag.org/content/351/6278/1196
And I know that sounds crazy but plastic is made up of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. That's like the core building blocks of life. What more do they need other than a bit of nitrogen and phosphorous, and there's more than enough of that floating around in the oceans.
Nature always restores equilibrium.

The world will always be full of people who are manipulated, but if you consider yourself to be better than them there is no excuse as to why you cannot assume a position of power yourself.
>new generations are all addicted to things like television/Netflix, smartphones, social media, the internet
More idiots=less competition right?
>modern life is extremely unhealthy and sedentary
>all the chemicals in processed food give you cancer and rot your brain and shorten your lifespan
>chemicals in...drinking and tap water disrupt hormones and reduce fertility
You can make the conscious decision to exercise and eat healthy and use a water filter. Yeah you can't avoid everything but you have such an attitude that it triggered me a bit. Every single person who has ever lived on Earth has had some kind of problems. Most of their lives have been incredibly difficult, risking starvation, watching many of their children die at a young age, suffering horrible diseases, and yet here you are and you're greatest problem is just putting a fucking filter on a tap and you can't even be bothered to do that.
And I don't mean to project, but the fact that you can worry about such abstract problems suggests that you really have a very easy, sheltered, comfortable life.

>I hate you all so fucking much. I hate you all so fucking much. Go die in a fucking hole. Stop coming on the Internet. Stop thinking any of this shit is important. Stop talking about your stupid next thing you saw in the news while the whole world is fucking dying.
Just sort yourself out mate. I think about these things to but I don't let it drag me down. Everything is important. Just because you consider something to be extra important doesn't invalidate everything else.

>>12034360
t. not socrates

I doubt there is a single person the so-called alt-right who has actually read Homer (if it were the Eddas it would make more sense). This is just an excuse to purge the classics out of anyone uncomfortable with the recent push towards multiculturalism and progressive ideology in the field.

Now anyone who criticizes Sarah Bond can be called a white supremacist and denied legitimacy in academic discussion.

>>12040266
He's completely right though. Living in a world where most are a copy of a copy that thinks it's a liberated individual is pretty fucking lonely. Good point on competition though.
As for the environment it's just another phony issue to prepare us for a phony solution. Environmentalism = unprecedented hellish serfdom in "smart cities"

>>12039485
i used to be 100% against bias as a teenager because i thought every person was an individual and it's unfair to judge them based on anything except who they are
but as I got older I realized you can infer as to the type of person they are based on their environment and background. you can't say with 100% accuracy that someone with a certain background will act a certain way, but to ignore that cultures have their own mannerisms and ways of thinking unique to their environments, ethnicity, etc is ignorant. so i'd say it's justified to have a healthy distrust of jews based on their history and their book of worship. it's in their nature to see themselves as above goyim, so of course we should distrust them. it's what they're taught. call a jew a white person. they'll stop you and tell you they're not white, they're a jew.
this isn't to say you should just hate all jews. every person is an individual and there's a possibility for each person to be different than their mold would have them, but the author of this article for example blatantly fits the stereotypical mold of a distrustful jewish person so it's safe to write them off.
tldr my philosophy is to hold a conscious bias against people of backgrounds that I dislike/distrust, but not to act upon it until it's been confirmed. treat everyone fairly until your suspicions are confirmed, because blind racism is ignorant.

>>12035267
You're overthinking it.

“Alt-right” is media phenomenon.

Just like the exploding van.

And just as lulzworthy.

It's pretty funny that classicists are getting memed on my twitter trolls

BAP is great and a major reason for this, but funnily enough Sugarmountain has no clue who he is. That's how much research and thought went into her dumb book

>>12040310
I like being on my own so I guess I have a different outlook on things where I view people as potential competitors rather than potential friends.

Also, I completely agree that environmentalism another phoney issue to prepare us for a phoney solution. It's just another excuse for 1st world nations to take in the entire populations of 3rd world nations as 'climate migrants', which is especially scary considering they are projecting like 2.5 billions Africans by 2050.
I wish we would stop feeding those guys. The reason so many Africans are hungry is because we send food to artificially sustain a population which is too large for the continent to handle naturally. We need to live in e q u i l i b r i u m with nature.

Europeans had the entire world in their hands and we let it slip. Feels fucking bad man

>>12036875
>right wingers
every politicized retard should be killed, left right or center, and the industrial system destroyed.

>>12040349
There are some jews who genuinely are white though, and who don't really consider their jewishness as a major part of their identity and who don't have a superiority complex towards the goyim.

That being said I often do the same thing as >>12039485
If a book is written by either a woman or jew, I tend to hold it in distrust, and I try to work out whether the author would have some kind of bias or political agenda that they are trying to shoe-horn in, although I will still read them sometimes.
Also I probably wouldn't read a book written by a non-white, although most books in English are written by white people.

>>12034344
>Unironically thinking pic related wasnt the most based human to ever live
ISHYGDDT

>>12034667
just like neo-nazis somehow exist , even thought the national-socialist party hasn't existed for 70 years

oh neat is this the pol thread?

>>12039485
Everything has bias, retard.

>>12034577
>are you retarded? Athena
yeah, gods and humans are totally on the same plane. watch how fast she submits to Zeus. Even Hera submits when he gets serious.

>>12038716
Atleast 50% of people who find out about /lit/ find it as an sister-board to /pol/. People who find about /pol/ are the kind of people to stay there and revel in it's culture. All effort posting here is either aiming at niche audience within niche audience or lost cause in general. If you find good posts lacking the best solution for you is to participate in propogating/making them.

>>12038716
im neither from princeton nor london

>>12040365
The public at large may see so, but do the elite in positions of influence, power, and control do?

>>12037236
then you are even more of a retard

>>12035267
A blackpill appears.

>>12034385
This.
Also, daily reminder that modern Greeks =! ancient Greeks and that Faustian culture =! Hellenic culture.

>>12034344

>>12041170
Well, guess I'm a far-right extremist lol
That pic is satire though, right?

>>12041193
XD LOL!

>>12034432
the reactionary reading of Homer is the best one desu. MacIntyre's After Virtue does a great job of explaining why individualism and rights are precluded from such a world-view without recurring to Nietzsche

>>12038180
The left-wing of the French parliament after the revolution was anti-aristocratic and the right-wing literally wanted the restoration of monarchy, you dumb fuck.

>>12041683
I don't believe the french revolution is some universal model for all the time that followed.

>>12038180
aristocrats as in blood nobility are the most right wing thing possible

>>12042180
Maybe in the past

>>12042185
m8 it doesn't change. If there were a military coup tomorrow, the entire state was disbanded, and then the people in charge set up a nobility based on their descendents and installed a Monarch, that would be right wing, that would be the most right wing thing possible.

>>12034438
SO MUCH FUCKING THIS

>>12036875
Did you miss the part where he lamented Earth being destroyed?

>>12034385
It's clickbait - use adblock accordingly

>>12039133
The concept of the masses is as old as the greeks you nog. It's impossible to discuss modern political life without taking it into your account.

>>12034385
She's Mark's sister. Couldn't make shekels so she went for the subversive route instead.

last night I dreamed I asked 4chan something about where to start if I wanted to learn ancient greek and everyone told me to start with the greeks

>>12036875
whut livestock and wildlife is booming because of increased co2 and more green to eat

>>12034438
This.

>>12040446
Books written by non-whites are perfectly fine if they are from people rooted in their own blood and culture.
But I can't think of any "western" non-white writers I take seriously. Even le based and le redpilled Thomas Sowell is baby's first non-establishment man for people that wouldn't listen to his points if they were written by a white man.

Lol Odysseuss is a jew.

>>12042346
Well did you start with the Greeks?

>>12042372
It's kind of shitty that you see it that way considering how dominate western culture is. There's plenty of non-whites rooted in western culture that it's hard to see every non-white as not being white enough to write stereotypically white novels.

>>12037111
>t. christcuck

>>12034344
She's right. Reading literature is inherently problematic.

this is why you hang, shoot and kill journalists instead of talking to them.

>>12035267
>>12040266
this is the best exchange I've seen on the site. Thank you both. Best of luck

>>12034360
>or subversion to authority
Achilles literally goes against his king in the first few lines of the Iliad you fucking tard, and that's just one of the most flagrant examples

>>12034344
You guys laugh now, but this truly is a new front in the all out assault.

MARK ME

>>12037668
This guy apparently
>>12038168

>>12034344
>homer
I prefer sneed personally.

anything that's old is conservative to these people at this point

>>12034344
>Radical
>conservative
If she's supposed to be a major scholar why is she being so retarded?

is it just me or do leftists just not understand culture *at all* and just make shit up as they go along?

>>12034667
Radical conservatives are generally reactionary.

>>12034385
I think they want to reduce the status of the Greco-Roman Classics, by trying to tie them with people they dislike.
I remember some article about this group that Zuckerberg's sister is creating and someone said something like "we want to show that there is nothing exceptional about the old Greek and Romans".

>>12043296
But the authority of Agamemnon is never subverted, he puts that bitch boi Achilles in his place. Can't believe shills are trying to place modern subversive ideology into a masterpiece like the Iliad

>>12044633
>he puts that bitch boi Achilles in his place
He never does and he constantly bitches about not having his best soldier on the field, even Odysseus, the best orator and speaker of all the Greeks can't convince Achilles to leave his tent, only the death of Patroclus lures him out

>>12044636
Did you miss the part at the beginning where the whole reason Achilles is being such a pussy is because Agamemnon roasted him in front of every single Achaean and took his bitch from him?

>>12044642
Which leads to overwhelmingly more harm than good and nearly gets the Greeks wiped out, if anything it shows how much of an idiot Agamemmnon, the monarch, is.

>>12044649
and yet here you are having an argument like agamemnon.i wonder if you could shoulder the responsibilities of commanding men in time of war.

>"I love the classics"

>>12034481
>these people need to be rounded up and driven into the sea

Be careful. They get their power from the sea.

>>12042189
Seems like stating the aristocracy to be necessarily right wing leaves other political orders left out of the spectrum. For example, if a country becomes a traditionalist theocracy where all the nobles have been killed off do you really feel comfortable calling that something other than right wing? More specifically, how can an aristocratic nation with a monarch be called right wing if every single policy or decree is "progressive" in nature? You see where I'm going with this? If anything nobility/royalty to me seems to be more about structure and less about conten (and therefor more detached from specific parts of the spectrum).

>>12045072
is this your gender studies curriculum ? what are you doing to yourself?

Why is it so easy to get a liberal chick to sleep with you

>>12045240
because they suspect we don't really respect them deep down and that turns them on greatly for some reason

>>12034461
>Homer
>white
t. 56%er

platonists HATE this thread

What did Heraclitus mean by Homer needing to be whipped?

At least half of this thread (as well as about half of all political discussions nowadays):
>everything right wing is post-post-modernist, /pol/-tier, based, redpilled, alt-right
>if you like anything that right-wingers like, that makes you one of them
>if you're one of them, it means that your beliefs are in line with the most extreme interpretation of their beliefs
>now I'm going to ridicule you for beliefs you don't even have based on a caricature of you I've just conjured up!

this is like that "alternative influence network" thing a short while ago, it focused on people associated with people associated with people connected with right wing ideas. It's all about associations rather than ideas; why do they do this?

>>12045072
Most living classics scholars are cultural Vandals.

>>12036971
now of course for Marxist historians this has meant that the archaic period can be viewed as a period of class struggle, now I am not going to be pushing a Marxist line in these lectures and I certainly don't want to defend Marxism as a current political believe which has been proven to be quite bankrupt but I do want to draw to your attention that as a line of interpretation of understanding ancient societies it cannot be ignored that is to say we have to address the fundamental question what impact do the basic economic relations of society have on the history of that society Marxs would say where a man and woman stand economically is really the prime relationship that that person will have with the rest of their community and so for many marxist historians the archaic period is a period in which wealthy Athenians and wealthy Greeks are virtually at war with the poor with the domos with the people.... Well it is an attractive approach in some aspects and yet as more historians have looked at specific incidents recorded in poetry or better in the work of ancient historians like herodotus that the more it appears the real conflict was not between the rich and poor but between various competing aristocratic groups.....

>>12035267
Y I K E S

but only because I agree