/lit/ - Literature

>>12005705
should all of his work be disregarded because of his insanity?

He didn't write anything during this period. It likely lost his ability to write during a collapse, and spent the rest of his days being coddled and paraded around as a circus pet by his sister while she meticulously re appropriated and spoiled his philosophy. Effectively burying it in the pages of history in til trusty 'ol Kaufmann dusted him off and recovered his project.

>>12005705

Disregarded? No. I think his only work that was truly a work of insanity was Ecce Homo.

Being schizophrenic myself, reading that book is a mind trip, as he was clearly in psychosis when writing that book.

But all in all Ecce Homo was an autobiography...so who cares. His work is very penetrating, and should not be written off.

After all, is there much difference between delving into topics as deeply as philosophers do and the depth of which people in psychosis delve into topics?

>>12005705
He didn't write anything besides his madness letters once he went insane.

>>12005705
aren't we all a bit insane OP? :^/

IMO, we should disregard all sane works of philosophy on grounds of their sanity. Everyone knows it's a mad world with Trump in the White House, Xi in the Beijing, and Putin in the Kremlin (and then there's the situation in Tanzania, of course). Obviously only the insane should be allowed to have their ideas read about. Burn books, eh?

>>12005968
fpbp

Well, think about it this way too: In Ecce Homo, he said Genealogy was his touchstone - so we can gauge the authenticity of his later works by comparing them to the ideas in Genealogy. In the Writings from the late notebooks, he does say things similar to what he had said in Genealogy, e.g., that all that there are moral interpretations of phenomena, not that moral notions don't just adhere in this phenomena. This idea is very evocative of his naturalistic approach to the history of morality.

>>12005705
No. Nietzsche's woks should be disregarded because they are shitty self-help books. The mental state of the author is irrelevant.

>>12007702
>shitty self-help books

If the only thing you get from Nietzsche is
>Stop fucking around with metaphysics
Then I'd say he's on point, self-help or not. Disregard him if you want to keep wasting your time.

Nah he's still aesthetic as fuck in his madness letters. Based Dionysios

>>12005968

They should be disregarded because of his idiocy.

>>12005705
No, he didn’t go insane till a few years after he began writing WTP and his psychotic break was in ‘89 but the last entries in WTP are from ‘88

why did he went insane?

>>12009440
he saw too far into the future

>>12009440
poor horsey

>>12009440
Treponema pallidum

>>12009576
What is with the beating/killing of horses scarring artists and philosophers like Nietzsche, Dostoyevsky, and Dalí?

>>12005705
nietzsche was a fascist spirit, even though he technically disagreed with him that spirit of strength discipline and life affirming qualities

>>12009440
I thought it was a mixture of syphilis and his abusive sister who made him an exhibit once he became mostly babbling and catatonic. From what I remember, and my english lit lecturer years ago also telling us. She used to make money from it. Pay per view to see nietzsche.

>>12007651
>>12006384
>tfw ecce homo and beyond good and evil are the only two books of his I own
I thought he was dynamite? are they still worth finishing? it’s an interesting series of insights even with a grain of salt, even as a teenager I could feel his writing style was a bit odd

>>12009619
anamnesis of ancient Indo-European rites (October Horse, etc.) buried in the collective unconscious triggers their inner shaman into acting out.

>>12009660
Legitamately interesting, gonna research this. Jungian, right?

>>12009619
I think it has to do with a philosopher wishing to be free. And they find they will never truly be free; that is some way they are always a slave. Like the horse, despite its tremendous will, they can never be free. A horse is pressed into servitude or willing gives itself to its master. Either way, it will never be free.

Have you ever seen a horse be beaten? Or killed with something other than a firearm? They are immensely strong and tough animals. It takes much constant, stiff beatings to break a horse or kill it. Likewise the philosopher sees his soul being beaten and oppressed by his masters, whatever they may be.

>>12009667
I was being facetious, anon.

>>12009678
Welp, ya got me

>>12009678
>implying your joke wasn’t actually itself an anamnesis of ancient Indo-European rites
>implying that your subconscious mind isn’t actually in contact with the collective unconscious and that it doesn’t reveal it in jokes

I dont see the point of reading Nietzsche at any point desu.

Why would you read him and which canon of philosophy does he belong in?

>>12007945
Agreed. Pretty intelligible in those letters, too. Nietzsche was fucking smart.

>>12009706
>Implying everybody has to be a Jungian.
>Implying everybody here has IE-descent

how do jungians justify their bat shit insane theory of collective unconsciousness?

>>12005705
no?....

>>12009719
german philosophy

>>12009773
not a jungian but genetic memory i guess

>>12009646
Sorry for the late response, but what do you mean by "I thought he was dynamite?"

Beyond Good and Evil is probably one of his hardest books to read in my opinion, but it's worth finishing. As for Ecce Homo, I never finished it; and that's coming from someone who owns 90% of the books he has written and having read them.

I didn't finish Ecce Homo because I found it WAAAY too arrogant for my tastes.

If you want to read some "dynamite" Nietzsche books, go for The Genealogy of Morals. I'd rank that as his best as it delves into what he is trained most in, or was at least formally trained the most in--philology and etymology. It is a fascinating book.

The one I like the most after The Genealogy of Morals is "Human, All Too Human." I like this book partially because it aligns with philosophy I have written myself, so discovering that book at a local bookstore after having written my own stuff was kind of fun. But besides the personal anecdote, "Human, All Too Human" is known as a great shift in his philosophy--it is where he finally departed from whom he said was a mentor, though the person had long been dead before Nietzsche was born--Schopenhauer.

That said, it is interesting to see how his philosophy shifted with that book; granted I have found a decent amount of contradictions within the book which I think isn't typical of Nietzsche.

Not only is it interesting to see his philosophy shift, "Human, All Too Human" is very telling of his world-views as a whole. He champions breaking free from ideals ingrained in individuals from the outset of humanity, one of them being culture.

>>12009719
>Why would you read him
Because all of the major philosophers since his time were influenced by him

>which canon of philosophy does he belong in?
Continental philosophy

>>12009631
>nietzsche was a fascist spirit
No he was not he preferred the Dionysian spirit over the Apollonian. Fascism is a middle class ideology that favors order and socially cohesion. Nietzsche was way to dismissive of mediocrity to advocated for collectivism, he was also an outspoken anti-anti-Semite.The only thing Fascist share with Nietzsche is the will to power, but for Nietzsche this would have not looked like subjugation to a collective identity. If anything Nietzsche was a proto hippie.

To some extent, I think one can gain a clearer insight into certain aspects of Nietzsche's relationship to society, specific others and the need for validation of his thought being spoken about from his private correspondence. It's really quite revealing. Unfortunately, not many anthologies of his work include much or any of it.

One of the main philosophical failings I see in Nietzsche was the lack of logical grounding in his emergence from the inevitable nihilism of the knowledge of the death of God (objective reality and morality etc). His emergence from that nihilism, given its most potent expression in Zarathustra, had too much emotion attached to it. It was almost like a religious exhortation to the spirit to take flight into the world.

I don't think he could ever quite convince himself of the validity of that exhortation and thereby free himself from the pains of the nihilism. His error, of course, was in not seeing the necessity of valuing and that one does not need any kind of emotional or "romantic" stimulus for the spirit to indeed take flight.

>>12007702

Reading Nietzsche as a self-help author is probably the second most prevalent misreading of after the "Nietzsche was a nihilist" meme.

>>12010180
It’s a quote of his. “I am not a man. I am dynamite.” I thought it was lulzy and I don’t take his ego-based talk with absolute seriousness, but I like a lot of the ideas of constructing the self that he puts across.

I’ll check both of those out, usually people point to Thus Spoke Zarathustra so I like the lateral choices. Schopenhauer of course has to be mentioned too, though I find some of his work a little too..pessimistic at times. Still an important figure nonetheless. Personally I subscribe towards Wittgenstein and Kant’s schools of thought but I haven’t delved into them for a while.

Thanks for the recommendations, anon.

>>12010594
>Nietzsche was way to dismissive of mediocrity to advocated for collectivism, he was also an outspoken anti-anti-Semite.

"The whole problem of the Jews exists only in nation states, for here their energy and higher intelligence, their accumulated capital of spirit and will, gathered from generation to generation through a long schooling in suffering, must become so preponderant as to arouse mass envy and hatred. In almost all contemporary nations, therefore – in direct proportion to the degree to which they act up nationalistically – the literary obscenity of leading the Jews to slaughter as scapegoats of every conceivable public and internal misfortune is spreading."


Nietzsche is being naive here; the group with the higher in-group preferences and social cohesion will always rule over the masses; to denounce nationalism and then at the same time denounce anti-semitism is a practice in the contradictory.

And it's obvious that the "whole problem of the Jews only exists in nation states" is a false statement, considering that there are modern cases of Jews being "persecuted" in low-population tribal areas like in some villages in Argentina and Jews have been kicked out of villages thousands of times throughout history.

But then again Nietzsche contradicts himself so often that it's difficult to grasp which of his previous standpoints he renounces and which he merely doesn't want to discuss again for fear of being labeled a dunce.

>>12009773
its not insane at all you brainlet knuckledragging nigger shit for brains cuck

>>12006384
>Ecce Homo is a work of insanity
I thought it was a very sensible approach of his own work.
Maybe sensible be is not the right word since it's not his aim to sensible in and to the common sense.
Even then it's still adequate to his oeuvre.

>>12010852
sorry mr peterson

>>12009440
He was suffering from neurological degeneration, was addicted to opiates and spent most days alone. He began to lose respect from friends and interest in his works from publishers near the end and developed a bitter hatred towards his peers and culture. All of this seems to have culminated in psychosis, though he had psychotic episodes semi-regularly for decades before this happened.
>>12009619
Nietzsche probably did not go insane watching a horse get flogged.
>>12009646
N didn’t have syphillis there is no evidence this was the case.
>>12010594
Fascism is congruent with N’s writings in genealogy of morals and WTP, but the ressentiment that drove the virulent anti-semitism and faggy adherence to state worship would be anathema. He was more interested in emulating Cesare Borgia, Nero-Tiberius-Trajan-Julian, Alexander, Napoleon, Lycurgus etc than he was creating a blood and soil Germanigger imperial cult.
>>12010602
Could you explicate on what you mean by the necessity of valuing? I feel the same lack of faith in N’s affirmation in his more nitid works and was wondering what your thoughts were regarding a solution.
>>12010833
Please kys

>>12010922
You sure? Perhaps not syphilis but I was told the insanity was a result of some form of venereal disease. Maybe I was misinformed.

>>12010922
>>12010959
He likely had brain cancer.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/3313279/Madness-of-Nietzsche-was-cancer-not-syphilis.html

>>12012013
jesus christ. Well that’s even worse. thanks for clarifying at least

>>12009773
Are there shared conscious experiences? Then there are shared unconscious ones. The unconscious is a shadow, shadows being the darker silhouette of the bodily shape.

>>12005977
>He didn't write anything during this period.
Lol you should check his correspondence. He was writing letters summoning the german emperor to be shot and signing them jesus and dionysus and sending them to friends and family.

>>12009773
That's no less crazy than most Freudian or Lacanian unconscious theories.

>>12009440

Affirming life has no other conclusion.

>>12009773
Objects and structures are woven in the architecture of the brain which is typical for all members of the species.

What triggers me is das Selbst (self), the "spark of divinity" in humans.

>>12013242
Insanity is not the end.

>>12010909
Kek, good shot anon.
Out of interest, having listened to some peterson but not read any Jung, do you think he explains it well?
I know a few devout Christians who hate Peterson because his psycho-babbly reading of the bible is garbage, but I don't know enough about Jung to comment.

Nietzsche hit the nail on the head when he called himself the first tragic philosopher. Will to power is essentially a philosophy of evil, which he arrived at out of love, not hate. Imagine arriving at the affirmation of evil through love! That really is tragic.

>>12014954
>Will to power is essentially a philosophy of evil

why is evil?

>>12016005
Power is force, force precipitates resistance.