/lit/ - Literature

>>12004599

>/lit/ is sentient
>capital is sentient

I liked the MP that called gay marriage orwellian

>>12004599
Redpilled, at least the first of the three acts.

>>12004599
The Party is capitalism

>>12004608
I've only read 1984 yet. Does one of his other books tackle the topic of gay marriages?

>>12004620
No, it was just an MP using a buzz word he doesn't understand.

>>12004611
ffs. Who cares about the political system. Why do all readers seem to only care about if its communist or fascist or whatever?

The book shows you two things:
1. Total survillance
2. MSM making fake news as the rulers please.

Everything that is told you about the war could be a lie. Its even possible that there is no war in the first place and it's all inside jobbed.

>>12004611
is it an allegory for sentient capital and its properties as an intelligence manipulator?

>>12004629
Best kind of politicians. They are a litmus test for the whole party. If the party doesn't throw those people out, you know that the whole party is shit.

>>12004649
>2. MSM making fake news as the rulers please
You mean the government*

>>12004649
>2. MSM making fake news as the rulers please
You mean capital

>>12004599
I like what it has to say about language as an instrument of control. People seem to ignore that for the “Big Brother is always watching” parts, when the parts about language most closely reflect the ways that masses are controlled in the modern era.

>>12004599
I think it should be required reading along with Brave New World for high school students.

>>12004620
Orwell was anti gay and anti sissy. That's why he hung around commies and chad workers.

>>12004719
>I read 1984 now I will stop le big government party
Do you have to read this book to not like totalitarian society? Why are dystopian novels so revered when they're essentially the same as utopian novels, but instead of having a positive goal it's just a negative one. There is a reason why nearly every highschool literature requires readings these books, and it's not because they'll spark change. It's because the literature is as impotent as utopian literature. It provides political commentary divorced from the present day. The year is 2018 why are we still stuck on 1984?

We live in a society: the book
Ending is quite sad desu, but still, it's a classic

Decent book but retarded burgers think it's anti-leftist when Orwell was a socialist expressing his disdain for Stalinism. You don't need to be a leftist to enjoy it though.

>>12004599
It was a nice year.

>>12004780
Because it presents ideas relevant today. See
>>12004699

Your argument "The year is 2018 why are we still stuck on 1984?" is a nice catchphrase and I'm sure you enjoyed writing it but it holds no more value than if I were to dismiss your argument because you wrote it at 10:00 and it's 10:01 now.

>>12004599
This book predicted a lot of things that we are living nowadays, the thing that I don't understand is that capitalism made reality most of the criticisms that the book does about the future if communism took over the world.

By the way, I think that a good balance between capitalism and communism would be the ideal, but that's just my opinion.

>>12004928
What did it predict that we're living in today? How do you reconcile communism and capitalism?

>>12004599
more like 198[snore]

>>12004966
1. I imagine he means the way rhetoric is used to recolor things. "Right to Work" really meaning "Way to Fuck Unions". Though I'd also say that's less a prediction and more something Orwell saw at the time.
2. He probably means strong and centralized Social Democracy. He could also mean Titoism (Leninism with markets) or State Capitalism but I doubt it.

>>12004966
>trump won by using simple words of the english language instead of being technical or formal.
>smartphones and other gadgets that can connect to the internet can spy us just like the telescreens
>SJW's and the Alt Right movements act like a collective group destroying the human culture and everything that makes us individual beings, just like the INSOC party.

>>12005023
>>trump won by using simple words of the english language instead of being technical or formal.
false
smartphones/SJW points are accurate though, it's been said plenty of times

>>12004599
the book is smarter than it's readers

>>12005019
>politicians wanting to reduce unemployment by taking away state support for unions is literally 1984
Grow up.

>>12005023
>trump won by using simple words of the english language
instead of being technical or formal
Welcome to democracy, buddy.

Did winston get shot at the end?

>>12005087
This.
There is more civilian surveillance than ever before, and it's only getting worse.

Everyone knows Trump mostly won by not being Hillary. If Obama could do another term, you bet your ass we all would've taken it (APSA 2018 ranks Obama as the 8th best president America's ever had. Holy shit).

It's an allegory for Trump and late stage capitalism

>>12005127
>It's an allegory for Trump and late stage capitalism
>>12004611
Are these fags serious? It was obviously meant to be a take on Stalinism and the one party state authoritarianism then taking Europe by storm. Capitalism is a distributed and non-centralized system that behaves nothing like the dictatorship depicted in the novel.

As for OP's question proper: it's a lackluster and worn out collection of dystopian tropes that have seeded the mainstream political consciousness and cemented a limited view of what totalitarian control might resemble. It has become so canonical that it has set horizons on what people talk about when they talk about tyranny.

>>12005150
While I agree it's a take on Stalin (if nothing else, Animal Farm proved Orwell really hated the guy), I disagree with your opinion. It's not just a collection of dystopian tropes, it's the codex - and Orwell did it in a way that was, at least at the time, new and frightening, while still crafting a decent story.

>>12005087
Yeah, he won by breaking down the face of it all and by going against a legendarily bad opponent. Though the way you phrase the last line really makes me question your objective analysis.

>>12005150
It's actually about capitalism and what happens when right wing populism goes out of control. Maybe try reading the book hun?

>>12005186
you're underestimating the role of a legendarily bad opponent in an election where roughly 40% of the electorate is neutral (Hillary lost all the swing states). Trump's narrative of rebuilding classical, freedom-based America, as opposed to Hillary's trites about diversity and feminism, paid a higher role in the election than the very style of his rhetoric.

The main character while being tortured was willing to trade the woman who he thought he loved for his own well being.
Is this the ultimate red pill ?

>>12004649
>. Why do all readers seem to only care about if its communist or fascist or whatever?

Because Orwell wrote it as an indictment of Stalinism, you pleb.

>>12006512
Find me a person who wouldn't.

>>12004599
1984 may be the single most important fictional work of the 20th Century.

It's a shame SJWs see it as an instruction manual rather than a warning of what happens when people like them get any real power, though.

>>12004599
I think you should lurk moar

>>12006531

>Find me a person who wouldn't.
exactly.

yet this is one of the themes in the themes in the book that is never discussed and of which the implications i think are far more meaningful.
Because what does it mean that in the end of the day, when forced, with our backs against the wall, we'd sacrifice anything or anyone to preserve ourselves ? What does anything mean ? Does anything truly matter ?

>>12005125
>(APSA 2018 ranks Obama as the 8th best president America's ever had. Holy shit)

>>12004599
its the classic dystopian nightmare story, I think a book on the rise of such a society would be better tho. maybe if the book was longer and had multiple parts, the rise of the society, the rule, and the fall It would be even better. or maybe the simple 100 page book as a standalone story makes it what it is. its easy to read and thought provoking, but not particularly challenging

>>12004649
The political system is totalitarian. It doesn't matter even if it's Stalinism, or Fascism, either view is irrelevant

>>12004780
In 1984, Winston isn't sure if it is 1984. How sure are ya that it's 2018? And what does it matter, do ideas become irrelevant over time.

>>12004629
He was probably referring to the way the law was passed in his country.
I bet you're retarded and dishonest enough to get confused about that.

>>12005125
There was(is) actually a whole lot of enthusiasm for trump. You'd have to be pretty sheltered to think this.

>>12006702
they do not.

>>12005357
what the fuck lmaooo

>>12008908
You clearly didn't read anything more than a SparkNotes summary on it.

>>12006547
>It's a shame SJWs see it as an instruction manual

LMAAAAAAO

>>12005150
best post in this thread.

>>12005110
>politicians wanting to reduce unemployment by taking away state support for unions is literally 1984
Zero reading comprehension skills, this board is not for you.

>Reading Brave New World and 1984 and not We

Honestly, Orwell's political writing is better than his novels. He had remarkable insight.

Collective Solopism is a god-tier idealology.

I also wear my INGSOC shirt to any and all polical events I attend. One time a girl from a Marxist group asked what it meant and I just replied "English Socialism" and she was keen to support.
I wish more people would actually read the damned book instead of absorbing surface level details from pop culture and poorly informed political shitposting, everyone prattles on and on about Survielance, but no one ever talks about Doublethink, which imo is the scariest part of the book.

>>12004599
I'll take that rose, it's mine now.

HA HA
Political oppression.

>>12004599
I debate the end of the book with others. Most people seem to dislike the ending, but I loved it. I was angry at first after finishing the book. Then I thought "well, of course this is what happens. They have been telling me its hopeless for the whole book".

>>12009038
Good point, sir. Doublethink is rampant in our society. I think of the trans debate. Some people are twisting themselves into knots trying to make it all make sense in their heads.

>>12009148
Trans stuff is scary shit online, it's a shame its loudest critics are the dumbest when there's legitimate stuff to criticise about how its doubling down on gender roles while claiming to free people from them. Definitely not a TERF, but at least some of them have a cohesive ideology.

Pretty good writing for his time, i think about the Ministry of Truth which is actually more like the ministry of fake news where they invent all kinds of bullshit to justify whatever the rulers are currently doing and publish it in newspapers and state-controlled radio. The parallels with the current situation are obvious. It was inventive because they didn't have computers with internet when he wrote the book so Winston works in an office that uses these tubes that transport actual pieces of paper that he edits by hand with a pen, that's proof Orwell was before his time. I wish he could have lived to see the global internet media machine in action.
And also that's where the "memory hole" meme comes from, Winston had to literally place articles that contained "wrongthink" into a hole where the article would be swept up by the tube system to be destroyed. So he would change old previously published articles this way, but that isn't so difficult in the current year because internet articles can be altered at a moment's notice, something that they do every now and then.

>>12005150
Stalinism is Capital

>>12004928
>I think that a good balance between capitalism and communism would be the ideal

>>12009280
What are you shakin' ur head at white boi?
The concept was so successful the global elite crushed it by all means available and still almost reached the point of certain defeat at at least two points.

>>12009245
In uni I wrote a dystopian short story for a assignment on where we thought media technology would go in the future, basically in the future all media was streamed, nothing stored locally, and was edited and updated constantly to fit the current agenda of government and corporations. Plot involved an actor involved in a scandal who was obliterated from history overnight, every movie/commercial he was in was deep-faked with a new actor and it was impossible to find his face or name anywhere on the internet.

>>12009316
the elite financed communism you retard, they provided ammo and tanks to Lenin and Trotsky

also capitalism and communism mixing together doesn´t make any sense, read a book for once

>>12009335
I’m by no means an expert on this but perhaps that guy you’re talking to makes a bit more sense if you imagine mixing SOCIALIST and capitalist policies, which is already a thing in certain countries.

>>12004649
>capitalism
>political system
brainlet pls go

>>12009335
I meant Nazi Germany, so
>the elite financed communism you retard, they provided ammo and tanks to Lenin and Trotsky
further proofs my point.
I know capitalism and communism mixing together doesn't make that much sense, I was being facetious.
The nazis mixed socialism and capitalism though, quite successfully in many places.

>>12009374
the elite also financed nazi germany, just anthony c. sutton works for more information

>>12006563
This

>>12006547
Fuck off idiot trumptard burger
Le 56% is real

>>12004599
not as good as the protocolls

>>12009193
The loud people online and shrieker neutral lesbians sjw's just hate everything and everyone that isn't themself. They make life scary for normal trans types that aren't a part of the community, now want nothing to do with it or associate with.

Orwell was infinitely better at writing non-fiction; Road to Wigan Pier, Homage to Catalonia and Down and Out in Paris & London are GOAT but I don't much care for his fiction. Though 'Coming Up for Air' which I have not read, seems very interesting

>>12008915
go back to r*ddit libtard lol

>>12012156
>>Orwell was infinitely better at writing non-fiction
Agreed, I didn't think that much of him until I read things of his that weren't novels

>>12004599
Boring as fuck but important to read regardless for obvious reasons.

>>12004599
Rip-off of "We".
Also, The Prince > Utopia.

>>12012156
I tried reading Catalonia but he used "fascist" too much. It's like going to /pol/ and seeing "cuck" everywhere, it's just annoying.
Personally, I think Blair in general is overrated and probably should have died in Spain.

>>12013495
Idk about "rip off", as there are plenty of works dealing with similar dystopias, but I do prefer "We" by quite a bit.
Anybody else here read the Natasha Randall translation?

>>12006691
This

>>12005118
No, it was after the end. And he was probably hung.

>>12013505
I've read it, p nice translation desu

>>12004599
I'm currently forcing my way through it. It's a good story, I just hate reading fiction but this book seems so relevant today that I don't want to be left out on what's going on.

>>12013505
Are you sure Randall's translation is the best?

O'Brian saw power like the thing that it is: absolute total control - over everything

He believed in the State and what absolute power could be.

He was showing Smith what is like being a god.

2+2=5

you don't just nod to keep the heat off
you believe it
the State is reality
the State is god
god is the State

fucking great book

>>12009335
He might mean going for a mixed economy, rather than outright command or free market.

>>12004599
bad

>>12015885
No, as it's the only one I've read, but I really enjoyed the language.

I just ordered 1984 today, along with "Fahrenheit 451" by Ray Bradbury I can't wait to delve into them. Which one should I start with first?

>>12004599
We think that it's topic of discussion here far to often.

it blew my mind reading it in high school and was definitely an important read for me. i threw the book when i read the last page though it was retarded.

>>12015478
I don't think it is that relevant anymore. It made the most sense when there was a cold war between two halves of the world which were becoming more authoritarian out of paranoia of the other.

Shit like Deus Ex and Psycho Pass have more relevant commentary than 1984 but snobs don't like vidya and mangos.

>>12017970
wtf i love big brother now

How does it compare to The Iron Heel?

>>12004599
Mediocre.

Rides solely on it’s political message rather than quality of writing.

>>12018582
The Iron Heel was trash.

>>12018601
Orwell is a fantastic English writer. Perhaps you like more pompous language

I liked Animal Farm better.

>>12017665
Good question anon. I think 1984 first

>>12004599
Worth reading. Not a masterpiece of literature but it makes an important point about freedom of information.

>>12004599

>>12004599