/lit/ - Literature

>>11992253
I just bought it so i can't attest to it's writing yet, but i most definitely know that McCarthy can write a better western than anything rockstar can pop out.

>>11992274
This is what puts me off a bit.
This game sorely tempts me to get back into gaming after many, many years, but I keep reading about how it's full of dialogue and characters and shit. That's what I read books and watch telly for, though, and there's no way a game can do it nearly as well. I'm sure I would just want to ride around shooting things and seeing pretty landscapes.

>>11992253
>The Old West is dying boohoohoo
They did this in the first game. Could they seriously not make it a case of the Old West in its prime?

Read Butcher's Crossing in preparation for this
I don't think there's a video game story that passes a good book in depth of story
I don't really care for story games because if I want a good story I'll just read a book. But the gameplay is fun and the detail is cool, but the story is too much, I find it hard to care

>>11992253
every line of dialogue in the game qualifies as literature

>>11992310
Well it's the immersion that is really the hand that video games utilize
In blood meridian for example, you read about a gang of scalpers causing havoc in mexico and the wild west, but in red dead you can BE part of that gang. the dialogue might not be as well written but the fact that you are playing a part kinda makes up for it. I didn't expect the lord of the rings when playing the witcher but i still loved it because of how much there was to do and how well written it was for a game. You shouldn't expect a masterpiece in story telling like literature can convey, but if it has a good story, good visuals, good game play, and good sound design then it's a good ass game. Just sit and enjoy it as if it were genre fiction.

>>11992310
Morrowind and New Vegas have better characterization and more fully realized worlds than a lot of books do. GTA 5 is the greatest work of art of the Obama era. Anyone who disagrees is just a pedant.

>>11992394
Imagine thinking you can bait anyone on /lit/ with this post

>>11992310
>there's no way a game can do it nearly as well.

bruh

>>11992458
You know that's a good point. Horror can only be done to the best of its ability in video games, as it give you a sense of danger to yourself at all times.

Don't like jap rpgs but Lost Odyssey is my favourite "litcore" game. Amazing short stories.

>>11992347
Hmm, a fair point. Last remotely similar game I played was Skyrim, and while I clicked past/rolled my eyes at the dialogue, you're right that the interactive element did compensate in other ways.

Mind you, I did get bored after a while (admittedly a long while), and never finished the war plot. Too many repetitive caverns.

>>11992253
Who plays games for stories? lol the best games pale in comparison with the best movies and the best books. Lit remains intact.

>>11992399
Imagine thinking that Ready Player One is better than GTAV or Morrowind

>>11992493
Anon when have you ever heard /lit/ praise ready player one?

>>11992503
Anon I said nothing about /lit/‘s gay-ass baseless assertions—I only talked about tbooks and games. By insinuating that my claims are mere b8, you imply that Ernest Cline is a better writer than Michael Kirkbride.

>>11992274
Videogames have a lot of trouble achieving Thematic Weight, because they are made by hundreds of people, instead of one drunk with a typewriter in New Mexico.

>>11992310
This, the games that I would be most prepared to call masterpieces are almost entirely because of gameplay. My personal choices are mostly platformers, the top tier being Super Metroid and Symphony of the Night, as well as some others like Resident Evil 4 and Portal. If I had to pick objective masterpieces in gameplay the first two to come to mind are Tetris and Counter Strike but they don't touch me emotionally like the three I just mentioned and tons of other platformers (Aria of Sorrow, VVVVVV, Celeste disregarding the story etc.) At this point the only games I play are platformers and rarely at that, I barely play vidya anymore.
If a game tells its story in clever ways that completely rely on its being a video game then that counts towards it too - Undertale's story would be nothing special in a book but combined with how it uses the gameplay seamlessly it makes it amazing. This also applies to the twist in BioShock, which would be generic in anything other than a video game, and Portal. I haven't played Silent Hill 2 or MGS2 but it seems like they have similar things. This doesn't mean all '''''deconstructive''''' games are good, Pony Island was crap and Superhot was only good for the gameplay, the story sucked.
Shadow of the Colossus is also up there for not only the gameplay but also the visuals and atmosphere. Every frame looks gorgeous and again, the story is nothing special on its own but the atmosphere is brilliant.
Also I'm not sure I would call any of them masterpieces in themselves, but Final Fantasy has amazing music. Uematsu is unironically one of the best composers of the late 20th century, and I only say 'one of' because I am not too confident in my knowledge of classical music. He is definitely top 10, probably 5. Dancing Mad is absolute fucking gold, and that's not nostalgia (only played FF6 a few years ago and I didn't finish it)
Games that try to tell deep stories with cutscenes are fighting an uphill battle. Except for point and clicks, JRPGs and visual novels no game has enough dialogue for a great 'plot'. Games do have their place but cutscenes for super deep plots are not it. Gameplay and atmosphere are it. Some games are great because of their gameplay, like the best Metroidvanias, RE4 and Portal. Some are great because of how they use the gameplay, like Undertale and BioShock. Some are great because of their atmosphere, like Shadow of the Colossus and BioShock, and apparently Silent Hill 2. If you genuinely play video games for their stories, you are unironically a man child, and cringe shit like Extra Credits claiming that a game based on Dante's Inferno was anything other than a terrible idea just make games look worse.

>>11992253
You’ll do what you always do, which is try to derail the conversation with low effort shitposts
And /lit/ will simply continue
dying.

>>11992573
Games peak with meaningful choices, where you make ambiguous strategic decisions and learn about the rules of the simulation from the outcome. Good games, if they have a linear narrative at all, use that narrative as a further feedback mechanism, for what happens in the simulation. For example MGS2's meta-commentary on the player himself and his relationship to MGS through Raiden, the VR soldier. Bad games, which most storygames are, have no relationship between the systemic playspace and the prepackaged narrative, and the ludonarrative dissonance undermines both halves of the product.

>>11992253
>he plays shitty normie games
ah yeah the totally unique open world third person action adventure game with a focus on story rather than fun gameplay

>>11992394
But GTA 5 story is absolute shite.

>>11992656
It’s better than Hamilton

>>11992489
This. Only children like story in their vidya. Freedom, interactivity and atmosphere make the game for me. I mean, why would one listen to a story when once could make one on their own(and then actually experience it as it happens)

>>11992681
Shrek the musical is better than hamilton, you aren't exactly setting high standards

>>11992253
Even the best videogames are only on par with direct-to-VHS trash in terms of stories and acting. And even the best films are only on par with mediocre novels. Games a toys until you stop being slave to other formats (w-we're like books please take seriously)

>>11992823
Naturally, considering the common-denominator dictating these Entertainment forms

>>11992800
The Obama era didn’t really yield anything especially great, in terms of art. GTAV is the only real contender.

Video games are the cutting edge of storytelling and the future of art. Anyone that can’t instantly see this is simply a pseud.

>cliche rockstar shit
>good

You can basically predict everything that happens in this game without even playing it. It's just the typical rockstar™ formula

>>11992859
Yeah and the majority of books are the same way. Dune is a great book but totally Hollywood.

You don’t think there are beautiful games and obscure stories in the world if gaming? Is there anything wrong with big games like the ones rockstar makes? They make a lot of people happy. Shut up faggot.

>>11992253
i think ranking any art starts with intelligence, and vidya creators are dumb fucking nerds. literature requires patience, time, and dedication. nobody dives into reading real novels without the intent to analyze and understand new concepts. vidya just wants to make fun gameplay and pew pews. i mean some games are deep and thoughtful like killer7 but most are garbage. im also drunk so plz dont pick apart my half baked opinion

>>11992854
seeing how call of duty and fifa still rake in the dough i'm going to have to disagree with you

>>11992854
>cutting edge of storytelling

In what way?

>>11992892
not the same anon but:
in games the player can make meaningful decisions and experience feedback from the simulaton. the cumulative experiences create a unique story for each player out of the parameters of the simulation. no other media can create an emergent story unforseen by its creator

>>11992394
You might have a case for NV, but GTA 5's story was a series of poorly connected spectacles that serviced each other more than any aim of characterisation and good storytelling. Still fun though

>>11992917
>literally entertainment industry propaganda
>your decisions in skyrim are very meaningful not like filthy books where a genius unveils a tightly woven narrative to you

I like video games mostly for story and setting.
I don't expect anything more than genre-fiction, but thats what I mostly want out of it anyway. Bonus points if I get to influence the story in a meaningful way.

>>11992394
I found the world of NV to be very dry (not just because it's a desert). Video games never feel as natural as books do

>>11992688
>Only children like vidya.
There.

>>11992823
>And even the best films are only on par with mediocre novels
No. Film is the superior medium. It's to make an art from the grammar of reality.

>>11992464
this. Alien Isolation is the only recent game that gave me that primordial feeling of impending terror and mortality that I recall only having felt in its entirety back when I first played Resident Evil and Clock Tower in a PSX

>>11992573
Have you ever played Knights of the Old Republic II? Gameplay-wise it's pretty run-of-the-mill for a RPG but it has the best storytelling of anything Star Wars-related I've ever seen. Very atmospheric soundtrack as well, it fits perfectly with the story's tone and the characters.

Games are systems-based, the writing of characters and cutscenes won't be the thing which really piercing criticism looks at, whenever that criticism is produced.

>>11993116
>but it has the best storytelling of anything Star Wars-related I've ever seen
Actually, that's the OT. KOTOR is the most overrated series of all time.

>>11993015
What part of
>of the Obama era
don't you nitwits understand? How about at least one of the queers that insist on expressing their disagreement with my post provides an example of something better than GTA V that was produced between 2008 and 2016?

>>11993160
>Actually, that's the OT.
The prequel trilogy is far superior.

this figured out the limit of games in comparison to literature and did well with what literature cannot do

>>11993178
The prequel trilogy has a better story but an inferior narrative.

>>11993186
dark souls 2 fucking sucks

One of the most /lit/ video games of all time coming through.

>>11993116
>>11993160
>>11993178
Im still mad about how Mass Effect degenerated, will KOTOR actually fill that sci-fi rpg void?
I don't like Star Wars though.

>>11993192
I guess it has a lot in common with your mom

>>11993197
>will KOTOR actually fill that sci-fi rpg void?
It's the only real alternative, but ME2 is better than either KOTOR game.
>I don't like Star Wars though.
Just replay ME2.

>>11993198
It's true, yet i still try to love her, just like i try to love ds2

>>11993200
Ive played 1 and 2 like six times each now.

>>11992884
Yeah and trashy romance novels and Harry Potter drive the literature world fucking brainlet.

>>11992892
First off in sheer terms of audience. They eclipse many movies and have more freedom and leeway in what they can do compared to Hollywood.

>>11992394
>>11992848
>GTA
I've just finished GTA 5 this week. Pretty disappointed desu. Dialogue and story was hackneyed, preachy, and populist. Private militaries, tech corps selling your data, outsourcing, offshoring, 1% are the true criminals, etc. Even the actual gameplay was bad and far too easy. You steal $200,000,000 worth of gold by auto aiming some mercs and then driving for a couple of minutes. The money that you earn is pointless as you never have to buy anything; you get guns from the story missions and property just adds more boring and tedious missions. It's probably the most commercial game of all time and has the artistic merit of an Avengers movie.

>>11994252
Still better than Hamilton or A Dance with Dragons

>>11994258
What's your point?

>>11992394

Uncultured retard

>>11993779
The current literary world is being driven towards Harry Potter levels

>>11992394
>Morrowind and New Vegas have better characterization and more fully realized worlds than a lot of books do
Yeah sure if you count basic drivel and YA trash into 'books', but that's really not saying much.
Standout games like those compared to standout literature are basically at the bottom rung of the latter.

>>11993169
Borderlands 1 and 2. At least they were fun.
>>11992917
>meaningful decisions
The decisions you make in a video game are about as meaningful as a pick your own adventure Goosebumps novel.

>>11992253
Game would be a lot cooler if instead of going for gritty realistic wild west they emulated the feel and aesthetic of old westerns