/lit/ - Literature

>>11985387
Cringe

>>11985387
The perfect cure for insomnia

>>11985387
Stop spamming this, its boring.

>>11985392
>>11985415
Thank you for proving Ayn's and my point, brainlets

>>11985407
this, probably the most boring shit ever written I'll admit the first 100 pages were good.

>>11985387
>not a philosopher
>not a writer
>not a thinker
>not an activist
>welfare receiver
>has a zero influence outside america

>tfw the whole world has been brainwashed by Aesthetic Naturalists into thinking you're a mediocre novelist

>>11985548
What a disgusting anti-semitic, misogynitic depiction of historical jewish women. Racism is not a satire.

>>11985555
I'm shocked, shocked to find antisemitism on 4chan
>dem digits tho

>>11985387
Nobody besides the USA gives a flying fuck about Rand.

>>11985387
hey fag stop shilling for rand every other thread plz thx but you're reminding me why i hate randroids

randroids love projecting themselves onto the passionate protagonists like roark but in reality you're just jerking yourself off (that goes for you too with your "hurr durr you don't get it") what makes those characters something to look up to is that they're focused on one thing and passionate about that. you're passionate about projecting yourself onto him and sucking yourself off in your mind

>>11985387
It couldn've been half the length and much better for it.

>>11985521
it did drag on quite a bit, and repeat a lot of "lessons" but the overall message was pretty good

great work, OP

everything shitty and base isn't really what it is, it just went over everyone's head. brilliant - you've created a style of criticism that is unbeatable

>>11985548
>Brainwashed
Nothing so easy to straw man op over. It's simply the default of the zeitgeist. That's what teaches people it. Nice pic.

>>11985548
>pics one the most argumentatively on point excerpts from Atlas
>has an ugly Jewish face speaking it
>profit
Do you people realize how bad you make your case look?

>>11985521
And surely Galt's Speech?

>>11986699
>shitty
>whatever /lit/ and r/philosophy and John oliver says the most is the truth

>>11986791
>by questioning whether something is legitimate, i've turned myself into an NPC

i don't think you know how to use this meme

>>11986802
That's not what you did. You said it was shit as a matter of routine.

>>11986802
not OP btw

>>11985555
based and quadpilled

>>11986847
>you didn't do what you did, you did what I say you did

this may be a new low even for you, my man

>>11986731
that is what she looks like though

>>11986847
>you didn't do what you did, you did what I say you did

this may be a now low even for you, my man

>>11985387
I'm just glad it didn't hit me. I don't care where that dogshit goes, as long as my umwelt isn't littered with that garbage. Ever seen the documentary footage of trash cities in China and India. That's the kind of intellectual landscape Rand fags live in. I wish I could do something to help them that didn't involve getting their filth on me.

>>11986898
>you first said
She's shit
A conclusion. You then said
>Wow so you're against *questioning* her? How dogmatic.
You stating something as fact and then implying any challange to that notion is a challenge to the debate staple of the act of questioning is malign and dishonest anon. Or maybe you were too stupid to realize the contradiction in the first place.

>>11986959
I am very stupid, but it has nothing to do with this particular contradiction.

My intention was not to imply that any act of questioning this conclusion - hereinafter referred to as "she's shit" -

I do not think that she is shit. In fact, I take great issue with the "matter of routine" by which many people dismiss books, authors, thinkers as shit.

What's fucked up about the argument we're having is that we have the exact same values. Never did I explicitly compare her to shit - I only intended to express my contempt for the self-hating state of mind by which everything that proceeds from the power of observation instantly passes into an excremental dimension merely because of its subjectivity.

By the way:

>you're *questioning* her? how dogmatic

I didn't dismiss the act of questioning as dogmatic. How could I? Questioning things is MY dogma, and the only thing that separates me from my own ridiculousness.

I love and respect you, anon. I do. Because I am you, and you are me.

>>11987100
quick correction to the anon to whom i was replying: i misread your green text "against questioning" as being just "questioning." my bad; i am clear evidence that autism and a low IQ are not diametrically opposed

i guess, in the strictest sense, i was a bit too stupid to notice the contradiction. it has more to do with me not wanting to see it as such, though, which i guess is where the 'dishonest' component comes into play

>i guess
>i guess
>i guess

you have so little respect for yourself that you're afraid to posit anything as a formal conclusion. you are quite literally the type of person that Rand was warning her readers to stay away from

>they've arrived

>quite literally

fedora.jpeg

>>11985513
"they think my fav book is boring ergo it's the greatest thing ever written because I get it and they don't"

>>11987189
god, this is so funny

>the amount of rational-spiraling in this thread

Up is down!
Black is white!
Good is bad!
Day is night!

>>11987186
i didn't intend to convey vacillation as a way to cover my own ass, anon. i'm just trying to inject myself with an ampoule of humility

you'd better hope autism is the next stage of human evolution

>>11987224
I'd watch your step, bucko. What you're saying is libelous.

nobody cares what you have to say, or how humble you are in saying it. "humility"? more like denial-as-tyranny-of-the-emotional-complex

>>11987227
>objectivism is collectivism
>i am losing, therefore i will answer character assassination with more character assassination

CUT MY LIFE INTO PIECES
THIS IS MY LAST RESORT

>>11987235
shouldn't you be watching videos with titles like "Ben Shapiro DESTROYS Leftist with logic!" right now?

>>11985387
The Fountainhead is the objectively better book. I hate that Atlas Shrugged is so hyped up when compared to its far less edgy and better-written counterpart.

>>11987100
>>11987113
You're a cool cat anon.

>>11987189
We are quite silly

>>11987196
people say it's bad writing which can't be justified by just saying they don't like it or find it boring

>>11987549
>which can't be justified by just saying they don't like it or find it boring
Yes it can. Being boring is a sign of bad writing. In any event surely the onus is on the other side to prove it's good writing despite the near universal yawns it induces

>>11987249
Atlas has more crucial points about man's ego and better veracity of philosophy arguments but if you mean story wise, I completely agree.

I was always amazed how the Objectivist movement, a meeting point of truly the most rational and intelligent people from all across America, nay, the world, was so thoroughly staffed with Rand's old friends and relatives. I mean, what are the odds? Truly a brilliant family with an intuition for surrounding themselves with only the finest minds.

>>11987698
>family
Wat
Also: people get impressed with Objectivism, seek Rand out, and she is impressed in turn. They become friends. Said friends come to organize the movement later. What the fuck are you on about anon?

>>11987833
first cousins, etc.

>>11985387
I've always found interesting how many micro examples you can find of Atlas shrugging; the inefficiencies in legal systems and corporate structures at high levels, including the sources of much chaos and inconsistency, tends to be people shrugging. Anecdotally, it has been my observations working in such environment (primarily within corporate law, looking at misconduct) that the root cause of issues is not incompetence, or unpreparedness, but that those with unique capability shrugged due to indifference generated by pressure from outside non-stakeholder sources.

Not the cases of a board being unreasonable, or disputes over pay, but cases of governments being overly invasive, or public opinion being directed at them. I once met a successful businessman who employed a few hundred in the UK who closed all of his operations over paternity laws, on the point that he has no need to continue generating wealth, he has no need to manage the lives of others for their own profit and at his own cost.

My point is not one of Rand's merits or otherwise, only that the Galt's Gulch mentality is observable, I suspect if anyone cared they could empirically evidence it. This may be a philosophical byproduct of Rand (among others) and their influence on successful people - you rarely come across an executive outside of the public sector that doesn't view The Fountainhead (and to a lesser extent Atlas Shrugged and Anthem) as works significant to their thinking.

What does go over people's heads is that it accurately describes behaviour, and hence must be considered seriously. Furthermore, as this behaviour is not grounded in a pursuit of rationality, it is not enough to affirm or contradict Rand, a pragmatist must view some of the behaviour she describes as monograms others will follow.

>>11987845
Blood relation is often a social excuse to get together. Especially once one learns they are related to a newly famous person. Or rather learns a relation is newly famous.

>>11987867
Very good post anon. Even handed but not in the fallaciously centrist kind of way.

>>11987627
Atlas Shrugged is better than The Fountainhead but Ellsworth Toohey makes an embarrassment of every villain in Shrugged.

>>11985387
I'd say I disagree with a majority of the points made in this novel, but it's certainly provocative enough to warrant reading when you're younger

Not all of us.
I love it.
Fountainhead is better though.

For anyone who does actually like Atlas and want more like it. Check out the sparrowhawk book series

>>11985788
Not exactly true

https://www.alexandria.unisg.ch/id/project/63669

>>11985387

>>11985387
I'll honor the Galt speech for being the only piece of fiction to actually make me skip pages in my life so far. Definitely an achievement.

Fountainhead was actually good.

>>11989619
Try listening to it then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F5nhYo5nx4

>>11989017

>>11989619
>it took you that long to start skipping
I think I lasted until the party scene at the guys house. Its like Lord of the Rings dude, you don't have to read the songs

>>11990017
>Randwritingdialogue.jpg

>>11990117
Surely you didn't stop before or at D'Anconia's talk?

>>11991062
During I'm afraid, the moment I realised what was happening I skipped to where the plot started again. Are you telling me you read all the songs and poems in LOTR?

>>11991177
>skipped the money speech
That motherfucker is good bro. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ2_ZxveT6U
Right after you see some invigorating brotherhood between D'Anconia and Rearden.
>Rearden glanced at Francisco, and saw a face that went beyond his conception of what the purity of a single purpose could do to a human countenance: it was the most merciless face one could ever be permitted to see. He had thought of himself as ruthless, but he knew that he could not match this level, naked, implacable look, dead to all feeling but justice. Whatever the rest of him, thought Rearden, the man who could experience this was a giant.

>>11991353
I like the part right after the speech
>you're wrong
>point a contradiction then faggot
>ugh, well I FEEEL you're wrong

>skipping few of the best monologues
>beeing actually proud of it

hope is lost

>>11991786
>Well that's certainly a funny way to talk at a party.
I liked it too. And don't try and imply that that Ayn is strawmaning her opposition or something. My family alone will employ those kind of statements in typical conversation. 70% of people I meet do that. As I'm sure you can recollect as well. "Normies" or "NPCs" as 4chan would say.

>>11985387
>/lit/, a section of an Internet webpage, data in some far-away server, has what humans conceive as a "head"
... what?

>>11992027
Don't be cute.

>>11992036
... b-but anon, I can't help being c-cute.

Have Peikoff start using shills now?

>>11992014
I just saw that line as Ayn Rand being coy at having monologues.

>>11992094
I wonder what sort of short stories Peikoff is writing.

>>11992094
The left is accelerating their irrationalism so that's causing people to discover Objectivism who would otherwise not have. Myself for instance.

>>11992094
Probably not. I blame this faggot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39Em6t0G7Fc for the influx of Randroids.

>>11992203
Unironically, it's what got me into objectivism as well. I often thought that Ayn Rand exaggerated her depictions of altruistic people but she was even more on the nose than I imagined. What convinced me was finding a youtube video of a youtuber trying to shame a business owner for telling a black guy to leave his store for obstructing business. At first he tried going 'look, you're pakistani, an oppressed group, and he's also part of an oppressed group, and you should forgive the fact that he was causing property damage'. And when the shop owner refused to concede, the youtuber got a bunch of people to 'protest' outside until an apology was given. I had never seen such a direct and plain view of slave morality bullshit in my life.

I can't seem to find the full video but here's an edited where you can see part of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRB3dOaPiK8

Then, after I read The Ominous Parallels, everything clicked for me.

>>11992280
That shit and things like it boil my blood

>>11985387
When considering the text's grammatical style it is clunky, and the sentences flow like balls of aluminum-foil down the throats of patients in the oncology unit. It's objectively a shit piece of writing. The ideology that often gets associated to it's primary meaning will be remembered as the most tyrannical tragedy to mar the cultural artifice. It will be forgotten by popular culture, and Rand will be worshiped by edgy contrarianists who consider fire-twirling a worth-while pastime.
The ideas in the structure of the text are the signifiers of a monopathic-schizoid. Really not that difficult to grasp. Finnegans Wake would e a better image for your thread, faggot

>>11993923
Degenerating opinion but good prose anon. No man can claim you are not erudite. Now refute a single word of JG's speech faggot.

>>11994430
>rich people don't need workers
lol whut

>>11991353
>expecting people to read hundreds of pages of that awful prose without skipping the boring bits
It's a sci-fi airport novel dude. Should have been 250 pages max

>>11994665
So, other than the speeches, what can be cut down?

What's the difference between Atlas Shrugged and the Fountainhead?

The Fountainhead burns hotter but Atlas Shrugged burns longer.

>>11987549
>brevity is the soul of with
No good writer needs a thousand pages to convey "lessons" and certainly wouldn't repeat them several times. See Animal Farm.

>>11989619
this
imagine this being required reading material at uni and having to not only read the entirety of this pompous bloated passage but then dissecting it and writing papers on it

>>11995741
the entire book can be deleted without affecting the book's merit

>>11995754
well, let's see. in one, a woman gets raped and enjoys it. in the other, the woman is a slut and enjoys it. so i guess, both novels pander to incels' worldview. it's the subtle things, anon.

>>11995798
Says the person having never written anything.

lmaoooo just play bioshock. objectivism rocks!

it's my bday, rolling for what cake to eat in front of a hobo today, odds is chocolate evens is key lime pie

>>11996704
>sharing an opinion and wanting others to volitionally adopt your outlook is literally collectivism

>raynd goes over anybody's head

she's the Gutenberg equivalent of a youtuber

>>11985387
Isn't Ayn Rand anything at all only because she is polemical?

>>11997235
That and >>11955367

>>11987867
An underrated post in an otherwise poor thread.

>>11996980
you volitionally bit my cheap bait and I respect that

also I had key lime, was superb

>>11985548
Wow, who said that leftists can't meme?

>>11985513
What point you have not made any?
You haven't even read it, you just posted it because you think it will trigger someone and thus provide some kind of validation for your poor excuse of a wasted life.