/lit/ - Literature

fucking your mom

>>11982211
I swear if anyone tries to tell me this board isn't filled with fucking 17 yo...

>>11982206
Death

>>11982206
vidya

>>11982206
>Literature, just words
>Cinema, words, visuals and sound

Cinema is still young, give it the same hundreds of years that literature has had and its products will infinitely surpass the best works of literature

>>11982206
I enjoy the films of Yasujiro Ozu and Robert Bresson

>>11982273
The best of cinema so far has been produced last century and it's all going downhill now. Besides its too much bound to money and decisions of financiary corporation to produce something as unique as a great work of literature.

>>11982224
don't know about the board but you're mom is

>>11982273
>>11982314
thats a terrible medium.

>>11982316
I'd agree with this. The medium itself is fine but the logistical and economic hassle to get even a shitty film made makes it a rather impractical and inefficient artform.

>>11982206
Music
"That Poème de l'extase? Put it on loud. His music sounds like I think - sometimes. Has that far-off cosmic itch. Divinely fouled up. All fire and air. The first time I heard it I played it over and over. (...) It was like a bath of ice, cocaine and rainbows. For weeks I went about in a trance. Something had happened to me. (...) Every time a thought seized me a little door would open inside my chest, and there, in this comfy little nest sat a bird, the sweetest, gentlest bird imaginable. 'Think it out!' he would chirp. 'Think it out to the end!' And I would, by God. Never any effort involved. Like an étude gliding off a glacier."

>>11982206
Drugs, more specifically psychedelics.

>>11982318
YOU're mom.
Ohohoh.

Shut the fuck up you cur, that good for nothing of your father should have hanged you by the belt instead of staying late so much while your mother had an "adult talk" with Jamal.

>>11982427
Who hurt you anon?

>>11982206
>What is greater than literature?
Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

>>11982206
There is nothing else so far that is as capable in the emulation of consciousness.

>>11982508
that’s literature

>>11982551
I usually like historical fiction, but the Bible has been so mitigated by the poorly-hidden didactic tautology of its too-many-cooks legion of anonymous authors and editors that it was rather difficult to enjoy. It also fell into a similar trap to the somewhat similar 'Da Vinci Code', in that it utilized a lot of poorly-researched materials and claimed them as fact.

A lot of the data matched up poorly with other historical accounts, especially when it came to numerical data. It seems that the authors of this book had a need for an epic beyond epics, and several bodycounts beyond the capability of a pre-modern war.

There was also a problem with the moral and ethical position presented by the book. Normally, I'm not one to nit-pick about such things, since the exploration of ethicism is an important and interesting philosophical task; but, again, this book went in so many different directions with it that it was difficult to keep up. Though the intermittent noir-ish first-person narrative made a lot of moral claims about peace and justice and acceptance, the actual actions depicted by the self-same 'protagonist' were often in complete contrast, such as when he killed all the people in the world except one family.

In fact, the entire book seemed to be filled with sensationalist violence, sex, and incest. It's surprising that I haven't heard more crimes blamed on this book, which often orders the reader to kill people by throwing stones at them (I've heard the sequel, the Qur'an, is even worse).

Eventually, I began to suspect that the book was some sort of in-joke. I think that when all of the editors and writers saw what the other ones were writing, they decided to take their names off the book. Eventually, I guess they just decided to pull a sort of ultimate 'Alan Smithee'; but of course, once all culpability is gone, I think a lot of the authors lost their will to make this into a good book, and so it just got published 'as is'.

I know there are a lot of fans of this book, which makes sense, I guess, since it is really a lot like that Da Vinci Code book, which was also a bestseller. It is pretty fantastical and has a lot of really strong characters, like Jesus (though he's a bit of a Mary-Sue, isn't he?) and Onan. One of the main reasons I read it was because there's this really awesome Fanfic this guy Milton wrote about it, and apparently a lot of other authors were inspired by it, but I have to admit, this is one case where the Fanfic is a lot better than the original.

I think this is one of those cases where the controversy surrounding the book really trumps the book itself, like 'The Catcher in the Rye' or 'Gigli'. In fact, the Bible is a lot like Gigli.

Oral storytelling

>>11982273
Too bad that most cinema is terrible (I personally feel that it peaked at the early 80s till the late 90s), there is no film that could surpass or even match a properly worded scene in literature.

You're taking a medium where due to it being at a certain pace people can lag behind and miss critical parts of a story.
Perhaps they wont hear the actors well enough due to mumbling or see them poorly due to bad lighting (a lot of modern movies use this and it's terrible).

This is ignoring other issues with cinema like the production quality (take for example horrible films like birdemic).

A book can be timeless, it is completely seperate from other mediums such as film or sounds for a reason.

It allows the reader to imagine and see the story unfold in front of them at their own pace, I can take as long as I want to absorb a scene in a book.
The worst that can happen is that a hundred years of now the prose might need updating from an older form of speech (Shakespeare is something that comes to mind that is still widely read in the old prose).

Especially these days with epubs there is no reason anyone couldn't make their own books to sell or to share for free.

>>11982206
>What is greater than literature?

being hugged by somebody who loves you

>>11983049
Too bad most literature is YA/genre fiction that people like you wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

You can rewind a movie, don't act like people have never misunderstood a book.

Your defenses of the medium are hypocritical because they are strengths of literally all voluntary media. You demonstrate only your lack of understanding for the nuances of literary suspense, meta narrative, and other uses of prose itself as a vehicle for thought that differentiate the written word from visual works, which rely on the symbols themselves rather than methods of relating symbols.

Reddit spacing.

Reddit spacing.

>>11983049
early 80's is precisely when cinema has started to crumble after the golden age in the 50's and new hollywood in the 70's. Terminator and alien isn't peak cinema you pleb

Film is unironically the highest form of art.
It actually contains all the other art forms in all the filmmaking elements, from fashion, architecture, design to music, photography, the writing and performances.
With film, you can express your idea in just one single frame through framing and composition, the performance, production design, sound
etc, while with literature you have to use multiple sentences just to set up the scene and for the reader to grasp what's happening. Reading words linearly is not ideal, film is just much more efficient. Also with film you get an exact fixed artistic expression that can’t be changed, while with books it's entirely different with every single person because they all self impose their own tone and pacing while reading, some read a book in a day some in a month, with films you get the exact experience the artist intended.

Now that doesn't mean everyone uses the medium to it's maximum potential, but it has a far greater potential than any other art form.

>>11983094
>You can rewind a movie

>>11983057
this is not an unqualified feel. if you dont love them its awful

>>11982206
CGDCT anime

>>11982206
real life
virgin

>>11983137
i think it's obviously implied you love them too if it's the greatest thing imaginable.

>>11983094
I'm not sure what Reddit spacing is, are you talking about the paragraphs ?

>>11983143
Is there any that is actually good or is it all just annoying cutsey crap?

>>11983222
You should look at things like berserk, a lot is cutesy stuff because it sells well to all ages but that doesn't mean all anime is cutesy stuff.

>>11982206
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women.

>>11983229
>doesn't mean all anime is cutesy stuff.

No no, I like anime, just not 'CGDCT' and I wanted to know if there was something that could help me understand the appeal.

>>11983094
>Too bad most literature is YA/genre fiction that people like you wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

How would you even know what I'm reading ? Did I ever mention that ? I actually enjoy genre fiction quite a lot with sci-fi, horror and fantasy taking the top spots.

>You can rewind a movie, don't act like people have never misunderstood a book.

And you can also reread a page ? I fail to see the point you're making. I'm merely stating that you're not locked to the speed that the movie is going and can take as much time as you want to take in a scene.

>Your defenses of the medium are hypocritical because they are strengths of literally all voluntary media.

I wonder how rappers of today or movies from only 50 years ago will be viewed in a hundred years time ?

They will be seen as archaic and there will be no way change it like you can change a book, so that it's enjoyable for the generations that come after you.

You seem like a very angry person for no real reason which is a shame.

>>11982579
Imagine writing all this and getting not a single reply. Here's a (You) even though I didn't read your post.

>>11983303
>I'm merely stating that you're not locked to the speed that the movie is going and can take as much time as you want to take in a scene.
But this is a negative.

>>11983256
Honestly when I feel very stressed from work or dealing with people, some really lighthearted stuff actually feels refreshing sometimes.

Not that I would exclusively watch it but now and then it just allows you to enjoy little things like a tea party and forget the stressfull days.

This might also explain why cute girls doing cute things is so popular in Japan, since the corporate culture is so stressfull and omnipresent something lighthearted might feel like fresh air in comparison.

>>11983305
it's a pasta retard

>>11983327
To each his own I guess. Sorry I called it 'crappy'.

apparently meditation niggas can reach enlightenment levels that shouldn't even be possible. i wouldnt know firsthand because i've always been a bit of a hyper retard, but apparently all you have to do is sit still for a little while and BOOM suddenly you are the universe and the universe is you or some shit idk lol

>>11982206

True love. Feeling desired by someone you desire and it all going well, especially the first months of exploration

Similarly, other reaffirming social interactions such as being admired by colleagues, getting well deserved prizes and generally feel that people look up to you.

These emotions improve you well being and reforce your every action. They inspire you to keep improving, stabilize the mind and with it the body. Even reading literature is a better experience if your life gets these sort of emotions.

All other mediums are pointless, really.

To such an extent that I really wonder if more people just filled their time with intelligent books the world might just be a better, more knowledgeable place with empathy, etc.

>>11983644
Meditation is an emotion killing meme. Buddhism is basically how to become an actual real life NPC

>>11983664
What a retarded literal boomer opinion.

And what if they filled their time with intelligent films? Paintings? Compositions?

>>11983679
>Intelligent films
Everyone would be an overly dramatic pedant who thinks they are the star in some overly produced schlock
>Paintings?
No one would actually understand objectivity or what it means to view reality through its own lens
>Compositions
The world may be more empathetic but none the more intelligent

>>11983664
Oh, silly anon! For you are blinded by your ignorance, and you can't even feel the blindfold that covers the world's yet to be explored!

>>11983709
>Everyone would be an overly dramatic pedant who thinks they are the star in some overly produced schlock
What? Seriously what?
If people would watch more films like 2001, The Mirror or Pickpocket, what would happen?

>>11983663
>Feeling desired by someone you desire and it all going well

It's really special, isn't it? I hope that every anon get to experience that.

>>11983738
See the thing about paintings.

You have no idea how droll these things are. They overemphasize subjectivity at the expense of reality.

>>11983754
Realism is not a thing then? And you can't gain any perspective through someone's subjective viewpoint.

Besides, the thing that matters in making (or consuming) art is emotional intelligence. Doesn’t matter if you're reading a prose or taking in a certain framing and composition, emotional intelligence is what matters. Art is not a mathematichal equation

>>11983762
>And you can't gain any perspective through someone's subjective viewpoint?
A rhetorical question mark should be there at the end

>>11982273

Must be terrible to have no imagination and having to rely on that of a Hollywood producer. Don't get me wrong, there are really great films, however a 2,5 hour film will never have the depth of a 500 page novel.

>>11982206
god

>>11982206
video games...

The more minimalist the medium is the more its author can bring his own identity, style, viewpoint into it.

>>11982579

A (you) for your efforts.

>>11982337
You have to keep in mind that technology is making it easier to produce and publish your own films, though. Everyone is carrying around cameras in their pockets with extremely high quality. Of course that isn't accounting for other necessary equipment, but the point is, everything is becoming easier to acquire and do. You just have to do it.

>>11983256
azumanga daioh is credited as being the first of the genre, and arguably the best one. so you could start there
also a lot of meme history in it, its where "mai waifu" comes from

a more modern show to try out is non non biyori, which is fantastic

>>11982405
psychs are a filter for things

there is no film without literature

>>11986401
You still need a lot of human resources if you don't want to film a plastic bag blowing in the wind. Also it will never be heard of if it doesn't go by the usual distribution circuit.

>>11983049
>You're taking a medium where due to it being at a certain pace people can lag behind and miss critical parts of a story.
>Perhaps they wont hear the actors well enough due to mumbling or see them poorly due to bad lighting (a lot of modern movies use this and it's terrible).
You're not seriously trying to say that there's no such thing as shitty books, are you?

>>11983220
That anon is actually wrong, reddit spacing refers to separating the numbers of the quoted post from the body of the comment with a double space. For example, the above is not reddit spacing. The following is reddit spacing:

>>6661488

niggers

>>11982206
>implying literature isn't the root and lifeblood of all other forms of art
I'm studying documentary filmmaking and working on a project that absolutely speaks to my heart right now, and what you describe is exactly how I feel about it. If it weren't for my subject material's source of growth and how they've processed the events in their life, my medium would be without meaning or a soul, and nothing I make would be worth watching without intentional authorship. Once you learn how to write a good paper-cut off a transcribed interview using someone else's words to bolster and express their ideas and what they care about, you begin to understand the value of reading a shitload of books. I don't think your question should be "what is greater than literature?" but rather "what medium best reflects and amplifies the greatest qualities of literature?"

>>11982316
>>11982337
>>11988881
the most genuine and creative films are low budget shit shows

>>11986401
Few people realize it, but the major barrier to excellent filmmaking is audio production, but that technology like all others associated with the art is rapidly improving in quality, portability, and is becoming smaller and cheaper by the day. The problem is that few people pay attention to audio because so many filmmakers think that they can capture an audience with cinematography alone. Walter Murch understood this, and he created some of the greatest films of the 20th century.

>>11988192
exactly

>>11982427
>cur

>>11982206
Video games are literally the ultimate form of art

>drawing/painting
>animation
>3D modelling
>writing
>music
>sound effects
>voice acting
>interactive medium
>VR immersion

No other medium can compare to the artistic capabilities of games. Literature has been obsolete since the day movies added sound.

>>11989526
>>drawing/painting
>>animation
>>3D modelling
>>writing
>>music
>>sound effects
>>voice acting
>>interactive medium
>>VR immersion
so all of these things watered down to their barest and basest forms into a fine liquid soup of garbage for zoomers to digest?

>>11982206
Me, I'm great.

Being white.

>>11982508
based and redpilled

>>11983754
>droll
Maybe if you picked up a dictionary you'd be smarter

I love reading, but it's straight-up delusional to still think that literature isn't obsolete as a medium. A fucking picture of Pepe the Frog influenced more minds than Divine Comedy. Mediums like youtube, videogames, CG animation, programming, engineering, robotics etc all pushed the boundaries of human expression and human interaction far into the future, leaving silly letters on flattened chunks of wood in the dust.

>>11989740
>mom i posted it again, look at all these people talking to me they are my friends

>>11989630
>this
it feels good being the most attractive homosapien

>>11989610
>D modelling
heh

>>11989740
This

I honestly feel like crying whenever I think about all of the time that I wasted reading and writing. Thousands of hours devoted to a shitty dead art form, time that could have gone towards an art or craft that might actually still exist in another 30 years.

>>11989747
The funniest thing is that you replied with a greentext, a form of expression that also exceedes traditional literature.

>>11989740
>>11989796
You are both assuming that mediums like youtube, videogames, CG animation, programming, engineering, robotics, etc. are capable of sustained progress into the future.

Literature, reading and writing, these things will endure until the end of humanity. They cross pollinate with scriptwriting and game writing anyway. They are still strong today, they have just cleaved off certain functions that made them critical to the public sphere of debate, discussion, and social innovation.

Those other things? Many of them are highly dependent on the survival of various complex systems to even continue to exist. They seem great now, and full of promise, but something as simple as electricity going out, or certain network infrastructure being cut- boom, gone, useless, nothing. Bye bye "art forms of the future"

>>11989859
>Literature, reading and writing, these things will endure until the end of humanity.
And the delusion continues. Literature went from being a dominant from of artistic expression to being a very niche hobby enjoyed by a tiny fraction of the population, so what grounds do you have to say that it will endure forever? And to say that programming and literature "cross pollinate" is about as desperate as saying that philosophy is alive and kicking because technically any kind of inquisitive thinking is philosophy

>>11989859
>Literature, reading and writing, these things will endure until the end of humanity

Knowing how to read or write won't even be necessary in 100 years.

>>11982586
One of the few contenders, i’d Go as far as to say a good orator is equal to a good book. But you gotta let em run loose with the tongue

>>11989874
>And the delusion continues. Literature went from being a dominant from of artistic expression to being a very niche hobby enjoyed by a tiny fraction of the population, so what grounds do you have to say that it will endure forever?
Because we can read the written contents of clay tablets from Mesopotamia written thousands of years in the past. We can read ancient Egyptian, Greek, and Roman texts.

The substrate of writing - that is, the environment in which it exists - has shifted several times in history. Clay and other primitive materials. Scrolls, books. Now computer systems.

The written word became dominant in the 15th century onward because it became more efficient to produce them, and bureaucratic and business literacy had been increasing for several hundred years before that.

The difference now is that we write using digital technology. This has huge consequences for reading and writing, and for literature. It has created efficiencies and changed how we do things as well. It has spawned new mediums and whittled away at the functions that literature once possessed.

But the critical difference is that digital technology is extremely fragile from an evolutionary perspective. It could be wiped out very easily by the collapse of complex systems it /utterly/ relies upon. Whether that came externally (energy, network interference) or internally (devastating exploitation of software and hardware vulnerabilities).

Books are actually better, from an evolutionary perspective. It seems impossible to argue that computer systems can survive longer and actually remain accessible. By contrast, many books will survive for a very long time and remain useable.

Also, it depends what you mean by literature. Most people will read at least some books in their lives. Some people are very big readers, or enjoy certain types of books, and the market responds appropriately.

>And to say that programming and literature "cross pollinate" is about as desperate as saying that philosophy is alive and kicking because technically any kind of inquisitive thinking is philosophy
Not what I said. Game writing isn't programming, it's writing.

You'd have to be very dumb to not see that a rich vein of success in television was and remains creating film and TV based on literature (especially public domain literature).

>>11989881
You are very optimistic about the next 100 years my friend. Or very pessimistic.

But a post-literate society is not a good thing, in any case.

>>11983671
Are you that weak you can’t sit still and quietly observe your breath?

>>11989740
You only do things for the social result they have?

>>11989924
Well-argued. I now feel better about my only viable pursuit.

>ctrl f visual novels
>0 results
How I pity you.

>>11990821
this

>>11990821
>>11990845
This.

>>11990821
>>11990845
>>11990875

>>11982206
I need to get into literature more, but the more obscure you go into a medium, the more interesting it gets. Not necessarily better, but more worth your time. I reckon that it's the same for literature, so start reading books that less people know about if you want a fresh perspective.
Maybe I'm just talking nonsense, I don't know.

>>11990875
Is that hanachirasu? How the fuck did Masada go from that to this?

>>11990908
you mean narahara

>>11990908
>Is that hanachirasu?
Yes
>How the fuck did Masada
>>11990926
>go from that to this?
Can't read moonrunes.
Hanachirasu is good for such a short game, though. You should read it.

>>11990926
Right, thanks. I'm actually a pseud who hardly knows the VN scene and am still mixing up my meme writers.

>>11990938
>Can't read moonrunes.
What are you waiting for?

>>11988192
There is no painting without scribbling in the sand.

>>11986401
It's becoming easier but still nowhere near as easy as most other artforms.

>>11982579
One of the weaker pastas
>>11983256
Its neotenized comfort-food for the soul and covert pedophilia. Its all bad and vapid.