/lit/ - Literature

>>11918881
learn both, dummy.

but Greek is superior in every way

Well, the Bible's in Greek so...

Latin is the most useful by orders of magnitude, and, essentially as a result of that fact (which makes it highly popular), Greek is more patrician

>>11918881
Greek is the right answer for every one of your questions

>>11918890
I am hoping to do this, but want to start by getting one down well and deeply first, and life is short, you know? could be dead before I get around to the other one

>>11918903
The only one I'm unsure of is
>poetry
because of Ovid and Vergil. In translation I have found them absolutely fucking amazing, on par with Homer ... Ovid, maybe a little more, even. His tales are just so potently magical.

>>11918891
Yes, but the Church's legacy is a Latin one, for better or worse. All of its great post-desert fathers bleed Latin.

>>11918894
Thank you anon, this is a fascinating response. Could I ask you to expound on 1) the ways Latin is way more useful and 2) how Greek is therefore more patrician? Just for its being neglected, or...?

>>11918961
It's cheap over here.
Come and live in Hellas the bohemian life.
Buy drinks though φίλος!

>>11918881
>Which one will be most useful to someone who wants to study poetry
It depends on which poets you want to study.

>Which one will be most useful when investigating the "meaning of life" - spiritual and religious texts and philosophy, etc
Again, it depends on what you want to read. The most important ancient philosophers are Greek, but then you also have guys like Seneca and Epictetus, and basically all philosophy and mysticism throughout the middle ages to Spinoza and Descartes.

>Which one will help me be not bullied by super-elites
Latin.

>Which one (since I am a little vain) is the most "patrician"
Most will say Greek, but the truth is that no one cares for it outside of academia. Latin was the language of high learning up till recently, and most intellectuals had knowledge of it. The lemmas of universities are in Latin for a reason.

Greek isn't patrician, it's just esoteric.

>>11918988
I would visit Delphi, but live in Greece? I was told Greece is something of a ruin of itself.

>>11918961
Greek is a harder language to learn (no, not just because of the alphabet) and has fewer students so people are more impressed by it than Latin.

>>11918996
>It depends on which poets you want to study
Great point, anon. I want to study only Archpoets with any seriousness. So. if I go Greek, I'll sit at Homer's feet; if Latin, Vergil and Ovid will be the Vergil to my Dante.

>it depends on what [philosophy] you want to read
You're right again. Let me just say that I believe just about everything written -- and you allude to this -- after the Greek philosophers to be footnotes on their work. In your opinion, do these footnotes ever encompass well the whole of what the Greek philosophers did, and, moreover, go further -- so that the Greek can safely be, if not replaced, than gotten "peripherally"?

Thank you for your intelligent answers, anon. Your points are all seriously taken. Good to know about Latin as patrician, versus Greek's being more esoteric. This makes sense to me.

>>11919092
>[Greek] has fewer students
Is this mainly just because of its difficulty? It seems wacky to me that academics who must realize Plato and Homer are the kings of the humanities would choose Latin over Greek. Am I missing something?

>>11918881
Learn both.

>>11919071
Come see for urself.

At least Greek definite articles.
This is what might make Latin harder to learn.

>>11919133
I've known a lot of Classics students and Professors. All of them say Greek is by far harder than Latin.

Κάτι θα ξέρουν kι'αυτοί.
Απλά να ξέρεις,
πως να αράξεις να μπορείς
ούζο kαι ηρεμία να προσφέρεις.

>>11919149
Translation for plebs please?

>>11919111
>>11918932
>>11918890

>>11918956
Acting as if the catholic heresy matters, and orthodoxy isnt the one true church

>>11919149
Something must be known by them as well,
Just know,
That to chill be able
Ouzo and serenity offer.

Yoda was probably Hellenic.

>>11919247
1) Orthodoxy has been absolutely cucked by Catholicism in every conceivable way: academically, force of arms, culture-war, you name it. But I'll admit Orthodoxy has a kind of integrity which is not present in Catholicism under its anti-pope. The two need to combine and renew each other and fix each other's problems.

2) Using qts as propaganda backfires because it reminds me that, as an american, the only girls who are orthodox that I've ever seen are absolutely disgusting aesthetically. Might be different elsewhere but here in the states it's a numbers game, and the 3% of women who are orthodox are not attractive.

>>11919265
>>11919149

>Something will know who they are.
>Just to know,
>how to set yourself up
>ouzo and calm to offer.

What did he mean by this

>>11919133
I've never heard an argument for Latin's being more difficult than Greek from any corner of academia; it's always seemed unanimously the opposite
>>11919137
>>11919092

>>11919119
You buy my plane ticket and I will come visit you in the blink of an eye, mon frere.

>>11919331
Save up, buy the ticket and go camping around.

>>11919309

>>11919309
>academically
Depends on where you are. In Orthodox countries religion has a much bigger impact on academia than Catholicism does in the West.
>force of arms
Just no.
>culture-war
What do you even mean by this?
>anti-pope
Oh, you're one of those people that's never actually religious doctrine but still shitpost about muh special club on the internet.
>The two need to combine and renew each other and fix each other's problems.
lol

>the 3% of women who are orthodox are not attractive.
That's not been my experience. I lived in a town with a sizable Ukrainian diaspora community for a while and found they had a pretty solid distribution of qt3.14s. Do you live in a place with a bunch of Bulgarians or Romanians or something? Romanian women are notoriously weird looking.

>>11919383

First of all,
>attempts to derail thread by fomenting discord amongst christians with the same tired bullshit we've seen a thousand times
I don't appreciate this.

>academically
Where the academy is taken seriously, this is true. "Orthodox countries" contribute negligibly

>force of arms
Just yes. Prove me wrong. >>11919349 doesn't even begin to tell the tale.

>Culture-war
in the West, Orthodoxy is not even an after-thought, for better or worse. There aren't even stereotypes available for normies to ridicule them. They're nonexistent in the popular imagination and in the minds of the most influential scholars/critics, that is, that which constitutes culture.

>anti-pope shitposting
I'm no expert, but I've definitely read up on religious dogmas; Francis is a pathetically bad pope, subversive and deconstructive of his own religion, politically-motivated, ingenuous, ridiculous. I don't know what special club you're referring to.

>the two need to combine
Just gonna double down on this, "lol" is unworthy of argumentation. The two were meant to be one.

>my experience differs from yours
Ok. How do you propose we settle this? I said, it's a numbers game. The odds that you find an attractive orthodox girl who wants you is astronomically lower than of finding an attractive catholic girl; there aren't even a million Orthodox adherents TOTAL in the US last time I checked.

>>11919437
>attempts to force people into a dichotomy of "The one true Church" vs fake churches
I don't appreciate this.
>"Orthodox countries" contribute negligibly
In the Anglosphere.
>Prove my meme wrong!
*reads meme* "be orthodox is byzantine empire between 633-820" *disregards meme*
>in the West
There's your problem.
>anti-pope
I also dislike Pope Francis but (as far as I know) he's never actually undermined any Church dogmas in an official capacity; he's just said a bunch boomer tier political statements in an effort to court the West you love so much. Not something worthy of the title "anti-pope" or scream of sede vacante.
>The two were meant to be one
This is also not an argument. The theological and doctrinal differences between the the churches aren't something that can just be swept away for political convenience to "save the west".
>How do you propose we settle this
Do we have to for some reason? Can two people not have different experiences?
>There aren't even a million Orthodox adherents TOTAL in the US
That has nothing to do with the proportion of attractive women among them as you implied with the statement "the 3% of women who are orthodox are not attractive." that was your first claim.

>>11918881
Latin is probably more worthwhile of the two because there is a ton of Latin material to read. More than Ancient or Koine Greek

Greek is for patricians. All the classy people do Greek and I say this as a Latin student.

Learn Ecclesiastical Latin and join the Catholic Church

>>11919486
>I don't appreciate this
You have lifted my use of a phrase; does that make you feel clever? (inb4 you do that again with what I just said, because you argue like a child)
>in the anglosphere
>in the west
Please, teach me where orthodoxy is contributing to any of the world's great universities, and then tell me what it is contributing.
>meme
You make me actually cringe.
>I also dislike Pope Francies, but he's not TECHNICALLY etc etc
Who cares. The pope is garbage. I'm not a sedevacantist formally, I was just being imprecise: he is a stain on the throne. The Catholics who like him best vote for policies which are patently anti-Catholic, including abortion and same-sex marriage.
>not an argument
Please stop sounding so much like a redditor. Yes, there are differences between the two sects; there is, however, one objectively true church, which is the mystical entity Christ himself founded. Then came divisions. I am not claiming one church or another is true; you are projecting, or are just falling back on the same bullshit cyclical debates you've fumblingly attempted to have elsewhere -- which have of course gone no where because you couldn't be less interested in learning or teaching or anything positive coming from being interacted with by others.
>how do you propose we settle this
I was using sarcasm. You didn't get it. I was trying to tell you you're ridiculous.
>Not understanding basic probability
You are bewilderingly, tiringly dense. I was only saying that one's odds of finding an attractive Catholic woman who is also interested in you and in whom you are also interested (already a necessarily low percentage) is much higher - mathematically - than those same factors being met by an orthodox woman, seeing as how there are more than 70million Catholics in the US and not a million Orthodox adherents. ... and again, yep, I've only seen ugly orthodox women, and apparently you've seen not-ugly ones; to bolster your point, it only takes one exception to the numbers for Mr. Anon reading this to find a wonderful caring Orthodox woman and live a good life, and I wish that for him. I'm just saying one's odds are better pursuing the larger dating pool with a gigantic support community.

Can anyone in here argue against Greek for its offering of Plato and Homer? What is the Latin equivalent, and is it as perfectly edifying as Plato+Homer in Greek must be??

I took a semester of Latin, three semesters of Attic Greek. Greek is objectively much, much harder, and not just because of the alphabet. Greek syntax is all fucked up and there's a bajillion irregular verbs.

>>11919515
It's interesting that what amounts to a mistake of history -- the losing of the Greek literature -- is why this happened.

>>11919576
>the larger dating pool
That's an understatement. There are actually almost 80 million Catholics and only 3/4 of a million Orthodox. So, generously, 370,000 women in the entirety of US; let alone just your region, your state, your city; and then divide again by whether you both want each other and could actually have a loving lasting relationship. I'm no mathematician, but that's gotta be hovering around zer percent right??

>>11919589
I've heard that Latin as an "approachability" that Greek hasn't got. Something of the collective unconscious to it.

>>11919576
>I don't appreciate this
You missed the point. I was demonstrating how asinine your "I don't appreciate this" remark was.
>Your Western fetish
I don't really feel the need to point out the silliness of it.
>I was just being imprecise
That's a very creative way of writing the word "wrong".
>there is, however, one objectively true church, which is the mystical entity Christ himself founded.
>I am not claiming one church or another is true
"The two were meant to be one."
>I was only saying that one's odds of finding an attractive Catholic woman who is also interested in you and in whom you are also interested (already a necessarily low percentage) is much higher - mathematically
No you weren't with the statement "the 3% of women who are orthodox are not attractive." adding that it's a numbers game doesn't make that statement less incorrect nor does it make it about probability. You may have been trying to say that but you expressed it poorly.
>How defensive you're writing has become
:^)

I believe that Sanskrit is going to be the future partrician language.
Foremost Sanskrit has got very profound literature. The Mahabharata and the Ramayana for example are worth to study.
Even in the last 20 years there has been written 3 epics in Sanskrit. And the modern Brahmans are still chanting some knowledge that has not been written down.
There is a chance that over 100 years that China and India are going to be superpowers in the world. Because India is more related to Europe (aryan invasion), the Europeans are more like to study Sanskrit than Mandarin.
The academics of today learn Latin or Greek at school, but the autodidactics (don't go to uni if it is not STEM) are going to learn Sanskrit.
The future patricians are going to speak Sanskrit.

>>11919230
>ούζο kαι ηρεμία να προσφέρεις.
Μου αρέσει να παραkολουθώ πορνό kαι να διαβάσω 4chan. Δεν θα μάθω ποτέ ελληνιkά ή λατινιkά

>>11918881
>Patrician
Stupid and vague label for what mediocre people perceive as "high" culture

Is there really anyone ITT crazy enough to invest time in ancient Greek? I can't think of many endeavors that are that much fruitless.
I can only accept it as an ego boost for under21 anons

>>11920566
I bet this guy is about to tell everyone to learn python or something

>>11920531
Έτσι!

>>11918881
>not learning Classical Syriac
Take the outside bet, anon.

>>11919105
You have to bear in mind that basically everyone was working off of greek to arabic to latin translations of Plato and Aristotle. Everyone important in Western Humanities didnt read these writers in the original language for a very long time

>>11920566
That's only because your idea of fruitful is restricted to $$$productivity$$$

>>11920077
I'll be dead in 100 years so Latin and Greek it is for me

I hear that Latin is easier to begin and harder to master while Greek is harder to begin but easier to master.
So far I agree with the beginning statements, haven't mastered either yet.

Orthos, how do u respond to St Boniface I, Bishop of Rome in the 5th century?

>>11918881
You need to learn both. There are Greek texts which are only extant in Latin, and Latin works will often quote things in Greek untranslated. Honestly, though, unless you are actually pursuing some sort of specialist knowledge, you shouldn't bother and should just content yourself with translations. The amount of labor this requires is immense, not worth it for most people, and you'll probably quit anyway and end up not reading any of the things you'd like to read right now. So just go read the things you want to read.

>>11918881
Learning both Greek and Latin (and French) is the ultimate Patrician.
Greek is more useful for philosophy and religion.
Latin is more useful as a jack of all trades, and will make learning other romance languages easier. It'll also give you better insight into the English language.

>>11918932
Start with Latin. It's easier to learn. Also, once you learn one language it becomes easier to learn another. The whole process of learning a language is pretty daunting to people who haven't done it, but once you go through the dance of grammar and vocabulary; a second language will be a lot less daunting.

Another piece of advice. Be careful about which kind of Greek you learn. If you're very Christian you might learn Koine. Just remember that Greek has change over time, so don't go on a vacation to Athens and chat people up in ancient Greek. It's good practice, don't get me wrong; but it would be like if someone walked up to you on the street and started talking in Old English.

>>11921222
This has been, by far, the most applicable post. I'm in my late 20's, and the daunting task of learning another language always discourages me. But, Latin seems the most logical choice for me to begin with. I'm planning on buying a copy of Wheelock's " " and becoming semi-fluent in classical Latin by the age of 30. I mainly want to learn it to enhance my understanding of English and language; in general. Eventually, moving onto German, Greek, etc.. If, however, I can make it through Latin.

>>11921259
Nothing to it but to do it. Order the book right now, don't put it off.
Set aside and hour per day to dedicate to studying it. You probably won't be fluent for a few years but the process of learning is enjoyable in itself.

>>11921310
You're completely right. I'm gonna either order a copy, or purchase one from a bookstore; tomorrow morning. I don't wanna wait any longer. Got any vids I can start on today? I'm stuck at work for the day. So, unfortunately, I'm gonna have to put if off for exactly 24 hours, ha!

Thanks for the encouragement. An hour a day is more than doable.

>>11921397
I would start memorizing the verb conjugations and noun declensions. I would actually do this for a few weeks before even cracking wheelock (although the first few chapters deal with this)

These are like the 12x12 multiplication tables, they have to be memorized.

>>11921417
Awesome, thanks for the advice, anon. This ought to keep me occupied for awhile.

>>11920531
Ο μαλαkας θα πεθάνει μιkρόμιαλος