/lit/ - Literature

>>11892484
Not even a Tolkein fag but comparing him to the fat redditor is an insult to literature

Whichever left no unfinished works.

>>11892484
Tolkien is lightyears better. Next question.

>>11892515
For what exactly is better?

>>11892484
>tolkien
>his writing instil a deep love in his readers, be it a love for the fantastic, the love of god or the love of nature.
>grrm
>his writing instil a deep desire to browse reddit and make fan theories about wether his pedo bait dragon queen is infact the product of ayy lmao genetic engineering in the planets distant, spacefaring past or if she controls them because the souls of her dead family inhabits them.
>tolkien
>worldbuilding took his entire adult life. he crafted language and myths for his books and he lived a full life wich he incorporated parts of into his world
>grrm
>worldbuildning is a mix of "lol just makin it up as i go" and rehashed ideas from past failed projects and games of DnD
>tolkien
>his influences are language and myth he found facinating and/or beautiful
>grrm
>his influences are the absolute dreg of early 20 century american popular culture.
>tolkien
>refuse to write a sequal to his magnum opus because he tried and didn't like doing it
>grrm
sells out his magnum opus to two hack, idiots before he even finnished it and then just sorta stoped writing it because he don't like doing it
it might be because i relate more to the fat fuck but im gonna have to go with tolkien on this one

>>11892586
World-building, lore-creating, song-writing (lol), language-inventing, name-giving. You name it.

>>11892621
>sells out his magnum opus to two hack, idiots before he even finnished it and then just sorta stoped writing it because he don't like doing it
This is the defining factor, the absolute difference. The reason Martin failed. I don't like using buzzwords but he's a cuck. If you can't finish your own series, if you need to tv writers who finish it for you because you're a lazy fat piece of shit, how can you even calll yourself a writer? How can you look at your wife in the eye? How can you even allow yourself to be seen in public?

>>11892484
grrum

>>11892484
As I casualfag, I first read Martin's work was better and I thought hey this is pretty cool. Then I read Tolkien and I went well this even better, the other guy stole from him, and that's beyond influence or whatever.

Fuck it, I’m going to be the one say it. I know it’s the unpopular opinion, especially here, but I just can’t help it, I prefer Tolkien. Sure the books are long and dry, there is hardly any action, and the little that there is usually blows. Don’t even get me started on the humor, how hard would it be to put a few jokes here and there. Still, goddammit those books have heart.

>>11892693
Based

T A X E S
A
X
E
S

>>11892664
he thought "this gives me like 7 years to finish the series, just gotta publish winds and then I can take my sweet time"

whichever one does a better job at describing the tax policies in his fictional worlds

Martin of course, but it’s like winning the special olympics.

>>11893646
Neither one, then.

>>11892484

They're both good and have different strengths and weaknesses.

>>11893637
All he did in that time was edit shitty books in his wild cards universe lol

>>11893771
lol no

>>11892504
>what is The Silmarillion?

>>11893795
he did send it to publishers, though.

>>11893798
>"Christopher gathered material from his father's older writings to fill out the book. In a few cases, this meant that he had to devise completely new material in order to resolve gaps and inconsistencies in the narrative."
sounds unfinished to me

>>11893803
still, Tolkien finished his main series.

>>11893809
if GRRM dies before he finishes his, I will grant you the point

>>11893816
Screenshotting this post for 2019

>>11892484
I mean just in terms of not being an obese fuck?

The whoever has the more robust tax policy

>>11892723
Why would preferring Tolkien be at all unpopular?

>>11892484
I can't read George Martin. I don't like his work at all.

grum is a hack

POST THEIR PROSE TO COMPARE FAGGOTS ALL I READ ARE "MUH FAT MUH UNFINISHED WORK" we are judging their creations not who they are fuckug autists I swear.
>sunset found her squatting
vs
>Rohan had come at last
You can feel what literature is supposed to make you feel when you read Tolkien. A feeling of wonder and awe. What you feel when you read martin is called teenage angst and edge.

tolkien

>>11892484
The one who didn't write THE MORE SHE DRANK THE MORE SHE SHAT.

>>11894423
haha imagine galadriel shitting haha

>>11892484
Children of Hurin is far better than anything GRRM shat out

a
plump
chicken
feast
glistening
with
gravy

>>11892723
What the hell are you going on about?

>>11892621
>sells out his magnum opus to two hack, idiots before he even finnished it and then just sorta stoped writing it because he don't like doing it
And then he compared himself to Dickens and Fitzgerald because of it.

"The Sandkings" was fun.

i think ppl really like tolkien because of the classic factor but also because tolkien can give you the hope that your ritalin-fueled youth fantasies may amount to something of tangible value one day

that definitely was the case for me, tho i dont try to write fantasy anymore

>>11894707
cnt'd, grrm on the other hand maintains this phony realism; where tolkien's world was the stage for deeper insights and all the things that interested him, grrm is just sort of a boring guy so all he does is play out character drama.

i dont think this conversation can really play out in terms of writing ability bc grrms not even a bad fantasy writer, it's more about what they're able to present in their stories

>>11894692
based

>>11893646

I love how Martin completely missed the point with that "Aragorns taxes" comment. Tolkien's mythology is no more meant to be read as a gritty, detailed account of day to day life for people in Arda than Beowulf is for Scandinavia, or King Arthur for medieval England.

>>11892484
>Which piece of turd is better?
I'd rather not choose

Tolkien simply because he propagated his gene.

>>11895694
I don't think he misses the point, I think he's trying to say that his stories are different from Tolkien's because in his he deals with the gritty "realism" of medieval life

Which is wrong, but what can you do.

>>11896295
>because in his he deals with the gritty "realism" of medieval life
Does he really though? I only read book 1-4 (took the best of my motivation to finish book 4) and I don't remember a particularly complex depiction of medieval society, even less taxes.

He got the "there are lots of nobles and they have lands" part right, but that's it. We don't hear shit about merchants or common folks.

>>11892484
That's apples to oranges.

Tolkien is more mythological and has christian roots in his thought which gets really clear in the Silmarillion.

Martin is more of a fantastic tragedian.

But judging by a metric, history won't forget tolkien. Martin on the other hand I am not so sure...

Tolkien is better at world-building and has a better writing style but Martin beats him when it comes to characters. I would also say that Tolkien has the better imagination but it really depends on what you're looking for when reading fantasy.

>>11892484
"I did begin a story placed about 100 years after the downfall of Sauron, but it proved both sinister and depressing. Since we are dealing with Men it is inevitable that we should be concerned with the most regrettable feature of their nature: their quick satiety with good. So that the people of Gondor in times of peace and justice and prosperity would become discontented and restless - while the dynasts descended from Aragorn would become just kings and governors - like Denethor or worse. I found that even so there was an outcrop of revolutionary plots, about a centre of secret Satanistic religion; while Gondorian boys were playing at being Orcs and going around doing damage. I could have written a 'thriller' about the plot and its discovery and overthrow - but it would be just that. Not worth doing." - JRR Tolkien


Tolkien is better

>>11892484
>a disgusting fat turd that writes incest erotica for normies and degenerates
>a proper man who endured, although unwillingly, the battle of the somme and defined the genre of fantasy by writing works of unparalleled beauty
>who is better

what kind of brain damage ails you?

>>11892484
Are you fucking serious, cunt?

>>11896551
That's why I said it's wrong. I obviously don't know what's in his mind or know most of what he's saying, but he seems to think that he's presenting a realistic view to medieval society, and/or how a medieval story would "logically" go if real life logic would be applied.

Which is why I said it's wrong, and by all rights, if ASOIAF was real life, every single society and civilization in it would collapse or they'd be wiped out by the year-long winters.

Hehehe... you know... PLENTY of famous authors have never finished their work... Fitzgerald, Dickens, Tolkien... the list goes on! Just sayin’, hehehe...

>>11892484
Tolkien was a good world-builder to the point where he basically standardized the fantasy genre. But all that said, GRRM is a more captivating and engaging writer. You all know this to be true.

>>11897421
>MUH BATTLE OF THE SOMME
why do people always bring this shit up?

>>11897535
The more she shat, the more captivated I was.

Can someone post the picture of grrm holding a flag that has a excerpt from his book about a girl taking a terrible shit?

>>11897535
>captivating
100% subjective

>>11897563
Because GURM likes to warsplain to naive Tolkien

>>11893483
Even his fanart is terrible

>>11897563
>why do people always bring this shit up?
Because both books are full of war, one by a man in one of the bloodiest and horrifying campaigns in human history and the other by a guy who was too fat to be drafted to Vietnam

>>11897563
Because Gurmurmur likes to portray the horrors of war even though he never fought in one, while Tolkien experienced the horrors of war and he thought they would be too depressing to portray.

>>11897712
>>11897734
>>11897770
yeah alright when you put it like that grrm sounds fucking obnoxious.
tolkiens generation was the first to experience the new war that came with the new world and grrms generation was the first to see war on the news.

>>11894423
This x100000. Because of that shit I stopped giving a fuck when Winds of Wankery is coming out. What's there to look forward to, more scat and period fetish? More meandering plot threads which go nowhere? Fuck that, GRRRRRRRM can keep his garbage to himself.

>>11897535
this made my fat pink mast jut from my trousers

Considering that Martin isn't actually capable of concluding a story, I would put him as below amateur. Like they're not even in the same weight class.........

>>11892484
Tolkien by far

>>11895694
>I love how Martin completely missed the point with that "Aragorns taxes" comment. Tolkien's mythology is no more meant to be read as a gritty, detailed account of day to day life for people in Arda than Beowulf is for Scandinavia, or King Arthur for medieval England.

oh the irony

>>11898562
Where's the irony?

>>11898586
you´ve completely missed the point about what GRR Martin was trying to say

>>11898603
What the fuck was he trying to say? Cause I don't know. I know he didn't mean to say that his stories deal with tax policies, since they obviously don't, but what point was he trying to make?

>>11898628
somebody asked him what was the main difference between his work and tolkien

Westeros needs less rape and more tax policy

>>11894403
Opening of LOTR:
>When Mr. Bilbo Baggins of Bag End announced that he would shortly be celebrating his eleventy-first birthday with a party of special magnificence, there was much talk and excitement in Hobbiton.
>Bilbo was very rich and very peculiar, and had been the wonder of the Shire for sixty years, ever since his remarkable disappearance and unexpected return. The riches he had brought back from his travels had now become a local legend, and it was popularly believed, whatever the old folk might say, that the Hill at Bag End was full of tunnels stuffed with treasure. And if that was not enough for fame, there was also his prolonged vigour to marvel at. Time wore on, but it seemed to have little effect on Mr. Baggins. At ninety he was much the same as at fifty. At ninety-nine they began to call him well-preserved, but unchanged would have been nearer the mark. There were some that shook their heads and thought this was too much of a good thing; it seemed unfair that anyone should possess (apparently) perpetual youth as well as (reputedly) inexhaustible wealth.
>‘It will have to be paid for,’ they said. ‘It isn’t natural, and trouble will come of it!’
>But so far trouble had not come; and as Mr. Baggins was generous with his money, most people were willing to forgive him his oddities and his good fortune. He remained on visiting terms with his relatives (except, of course, the Sackville-Bagginses), and he had many devoted admirers among the hobbits of poor and unimportant families. But he had no close friends, until some of his younger cousins began to grow up.
Opening of AGOT
> The morning had dawned clear and cold, with a crispness that hinted at the end of summer. They set forth at daybreak to see a man beheaded, twenty in all, and Bran rode among them, nervous with excitement. This was the first time he had been deemed old enough to go with his lord father and his brothers to see the king's justice done. It was the ninth year of summer, and the seventh of Bran's life.
>The man had been taken outside a small holdfast in the hills. Robb thought he was a wildling, his sword sworn to Mance Rayder, the King-beyond-the-Wall. It made Bran's skin prickle to think of it. He remembered the hearth tales Old Nan told them. The wildlings were cruel men, she said, slavers and slayers and thieves. They consorted with giants and ghouls, stole girl children in the dead of night, and drank blood from polished horns. And their women lay with the Others in the Long Night to sire terrible half-human children.
>But the man they found bound hand and foot to the holdfast wall awaiting the king's justice was old and scrawny, not much taller than Robb. He had lost both ears and a finger to frostbite, and he dressed all in black, the same as a brother of the Night's Watch, except that his furs were ragged and greasy.

>>11898741
I think I liked the LOTR bit better but I can’t tell why. Can anyone help a brainlet out?

>>11898645
And that would be fine if he said he didn't "quibble" with him

>>11898741
Tolkien's writing (in LOTR at least) has incredible timeless warmth compared to Martin's. There are obvious reactionary elements in LOTR but its beauty is in the emotion of it, and it shouldn't be read as an ideological or moral piece.

With Martin you can basically tell from the first paragraph that his two biggest influences are historical writing and 20th century pop culture (TV, thrillers, etc) and while I do like the books you can only read them like cheap thrillers, with a large world-building aspect.

People in the thread are complaining about him selling it to TV before he finished but let's be real, ASOIAF was written to become a tv show. Even reading it feels like it, with the episodic style and all the cliffhangers.

>>11898840
Yes, there's something so much more primordial and mythic about Tolkien's world, and the languages definitely help.

Martin is everything that's wrong with this nerd culture that think shock value scales with maturity.

>>11898741
Wow. It's kind of jarring to see LOTR has such a forgettable opening compared to the iconic, immediately compelling opening to The Hobbit.

Did Tolkien just think good prose should be reserved for children's novels or something?

>>11898840
>There are obvious reactionary elements in LOTR but its beauty is in the emotion of it, and it shouldn't be read as an ideological or moral piece.
>implying

>>11898840
>People in the thread are complaining about him selling it to TV before he finished but let's be real, ASOIAF was written to become a tv show. Even reading it feels like it, with the episodic style and all the cliffhangers.
Not to mention Martin wrote a tv show in the 80s.

>>11898865
It shouldn't, though. Tolkien thought what he was doing was way bigger and more universal than politics, parable, or even conventional religion.

That's why he got so insanely butthurt that people thought LOTR was an allegory for WWII. In his mind, WWII didn't even come close to comparing to the sheer depth and meaning of mythology.

>>11898845
The language is crucial for the stories I think. But also Tolkien explicitly aimed to write a "mythology" for his country, that was comparable in style to the Greek/Norse myths, Old Testament, Beowulf.

He was actually trying to emulate these semi-prehistoric stories and write something untainted by modern ideology. That's probably where the primordial essence comes from.

I'm interested to see how it's viewed in a few centuries though - if they see it as timeless or as totally full of 20th century biases, etc.

>>11898878
He has written a lot of TV actually and it influences his writing more than anything else imo.

>>11898865
I don't follow, implying what? Do you think it is or isn't reactionary and ideological?

>>11898904
You're implying being a reactionary is bad.

>>11898922
It is.

Industrial capitalism and liberal democracy are superior to monarchism and feudalism. That's why they definitively won.

>>11898922
That isn't what I meant, but for writing a mythos it doesn't work. A mythos is basically a kind of pre-thought basis for a culture - the more reactionary it is the less it is mythology.

>>11898940
Why do you /pol/ fanatics love making these grand statements? The disintegration of Liberal Democracy is in the open, and industrial capitalism is perfectly compatible with monarchism.

>>11898961
>Why do you /pol/ fanatics love making these grand statements?
/pol/ fanatic? /pol/ is filled with reactionaries!
>The disintegration of Liberal Democracy is in the open
And monarchies show no signs of becoming serious institutions in the world again. Because even the disintegrating liberal democracy is a thousand times superior to the ideally functioning monarchy.
>industrial capitalism is perfectly compatible with monarchism.
No, it objectively isn't. That's why monarchies began to crumble as soon as the industrial revolution happened. The more people you have living in industrial centres, the more people you have who are going to demand political representation.

>>11898940
What if I told you you can conservative and be reactionary?

>>11898940
What if I told you you can be reactionary withour being a freaking monarchist? Being a conservative is a thing, y'know.

>>11899023
Being a conservative means you want to preserve existing institutions. Being a reactionary means you want to return to OLD institutions.

>>11898981
>/pol/ fanatic? /pol/ is filled with reactionaries!
You know the wonderful thing about /pol/ is even though none of them agrees with another they are still a totally homogeneous hivemind.
> even the disintegrating liberal democracy is a thousand times superior to the ideally functioning monarchy
On our current trajectory the only thing remaining of liberal democracy will be the name.
>No, it objectively isn't.
Objebctively how? Industrial capitalism is totally indifferent to the organisation of social hierarchy. It continues to work in spite of it, not because of it.
>The more people you have living in industrial centres, the more people you have who are going to demand political representation.
Formal representation is good, but representatives do not care about the interests of their electorate, have basically no power to impede the free flow of capital, and are totally un-transparent about it all anyway. Why do you fetishise democracy when it doesn't exist?

A better question is where Robert Jordan and Steven Erickson rank compared to Tolkien

>>11899060
Yeah, and those institutions dont necessarily have to be either monarchism or feudalism. They can be traditional religious marriage, fags not being able to be considered a couple, traditional gender roles, etc.

>>11899068
>You know the wonderful thing about /pol/ is even though none of them agrees with another they are still a totally homogeneous hivemind.
?
I never said /pol/ was a hivemind, I'm just genuinely curious why you assumed I was a hardcore /pol/ user when I was favoring democracy and liberalism; things that many on /pol/ detest.
>On our current trajectory the only thing remaining of liberal democracy will be the name.
Not even its name, in my opinion. It will be a remnant of another time in a century or so.
>Industrial capitalism is totally indifferent to the organisation of social hierarchy. It continues to work in spite of it, not because of it.
That's where you're wrong. Capitalist producers don't want to spend their time being pushed around by people with fundamentally different economic interests than them. The aristocracy is a class born of feudal landowners and thus capitalists have no interest in listening to dumb agrarian aristocrats trying to tell them how they should be focusing their industry and finance. As soon as a capitalist class CAN overthrow a monarchy, it will. Every time.
>Formal representation is good, but representatives do not care about the interests of their electorate, have basically no power to impede the free flow of capital, and are totally un-transparent about it all anyway.
Mostly correct, but democratic institutions, by their nature, can't help but give the masses a small yet significant role in political organization. The only way to escape this fact would be to outright rig the votes entirely.
>Why do you fetishise democracy when it doesn't exist?
I don't fetishize it, I just think it's far superior to previous forms of government.

>>11899085
Enough of these basedlords, the real question is Bakker and Tolkien

>>11899088
Sure, but the context of our discussion was Tolkien and it's obvious the person I'm talking to shares or at least is sympathetic toward Tolkien's pro-monarchy views.

>>11892723
Unpopular opinion, I know, I know, but I agree with you. I prefer Tolkien. Hope we don't get downvoted to oblivion.

Based on physiognomy, Tolkien is the clear winner. Martin has disgusting and lowly peasant features.

>>11899090
I basically agree with your sentiment. Capitalism under liberal democracy has resulted in the greatest prosperity in human history., but it is too naive to simply defend those old ideals and expect to weather all oncoming storms.

If you want things to stay the way they are being a conservative is exactly the wrong way to get that because wealth and power are redistributing themselves outside of the democratic sphere.

>>11892484

Wild Cards > LOTR > Dragonbullshit

https://youtu.be/QmKhGqWcJGY

>>11893786

#1, While they stopped being as good once the first run died out in the mid 90's, Wild Cards aren't shitty.

#2. I'm pretty sure that Snodgrass does the actual editing of the Wild Cards series, and has been the main person doing it since they brought it back in slightly lesser form. It doesn't take any time away from GRRM's writing because the only part he has to involve himself in is signing the checks.

#3. I'm so glad that, even as a teenager who actually like shit fantasy back then, I was smart enough not to start his Dragonshit series until it was finished after being burned one too many times.

>>11892484

Lastly, if you're looking for something after Tolkein (who I'm not that big of a fan of honestly), Guy Gavriel Kay (who helped finish Tolkein's ish) writes books that are better than Martin's non Wild Cards work too.

>>11899196
GoT, however shitty, is still better than Wild Cards.

>>11899224

Have you read any of the books that were published before 1995?

>>11892484
> Which one is better?
Not memeing here.

>>11892484
I can't believe I fell for this shitty bait.

>>11892484
Tolkien
>Catholic
>based
>redpilled
>conservative
>comfy writing

Martin
>fat
>fedora-wearing
>atheist
>redditor
>neoliberal technocuck
>cant finish what he starts
>shit fetishist

>>11898890
>mfw bilbo and frodos tales are mere retelling of the odyssey

based greeks

>>11899085
>>11899091
What about Mervyn Peake?

>>11892484
both are good. Maybe Tolkien is better when it comes to style, but Martin is better in Worldbuilding

>>11898768
It's because Tolkien hides his worldbuilding better. That opening tells us a lot about Hobbit culture without being too obvious about it. Martin's reads more like a list of keywords.

>>11900551
>Martin's reads more like a list of keywords.
Deliberate, to appeal to lazy normalfags. It's like how words are bolded in comic books, not for emphasis, but to facilitate skim reading.

>>11898981
>he more people you have living in industrial centres, the more people you have who are going to demand political representation.

Chingchongs are doing fine it's a cultural issue you midwit fuck

>>11900725
t. xi jinping

>>11901003
>t-thing happens I haven't read anything from that period or around it or even a whole history of a country to draw my own conclusions
>counterpoint to your cringe stated
>WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>11901008
come again, luv? i was just havin a laugh

>>11901031
reported for hatespeech an*Lo

>>11900523
lol fucking no

>>11900551
>It's because Tolkien hides his worldbuilding better
you have to be kidding me

>>11892484

While scrolling down too fast, I thought I saw this.
Which is decently balanced, tbqh.

>>11892621
You have to admit though, they both have chubby little sausage fingers.

>>11896727
I haven't read grrm, but after recently rereading all of Tolkien's major works, I think he's pretty awesome at writing characters. He necessarily doesn't go into great individual detail in the Silmarillion, but Merry, Pippin, Bilbo, really all the main hobbits and Gandalf are excellently depicted and fleshed out. You don't notice this when you're younger and are mostly invested in the overall story itself and not in the depth of storytelling. Think about how emotionally invested you are in Sam's garden at the end of LotR.

>>11892723
Is this an actual reddit quote or a pastiche?

>>11892484
Tolkien in every aspect except being a fat hack

>>11900523
what

>>11892723
I really really hope this is some reddit copypasta

Tolkien is to creative literary genius what Martin is to hack pulp idiocy. They both so far surpass anyone else in their field that they will be remembered 1,000 years from now as a kind of yin and yang of fantasy, a Manichaen duality of speculative letters. For every sublime, luminous beauty that Tolkien has gifted the world, Martin has cursed us with a tedious, banal ugliness. It is unfair to compare the two directly on any one point, because Martin is in every way the anti-Tolkien, patently sterile, parasitical, and inferior, but so much so that he becomes a monument in his own right, and counterbalances Tolkien. Could one exist without the other? Tolkien obviously could. But it is only by the contrast that Martin offers that we can truly appreciate the full depths and heights of Tolkien. Our understanding of Tolkien would be incomplete if Martin had never set pen to page. It is through only the abject failure and futility of Martin that we can approach an apprehension of the true scope and scale of Tolkien's hitherto inconceivable greatness. Perhaps this is what Tolkien had in mind when he wrote about the Music of the Ainur. If Tolkien is a subcreator in the image of Eru, truly Martin is like unto Melkor. It is only reflected in the awfulness of the one that we can fully see the goodness of the other.

>>11900276

Tolkien literally described himself as an anarchist.

>>11902578
yeah but some wierdo kind of anarchist who prefered to be ruled by a monarch instead of a democraticaly elected leader. he found it distastful that people had to choose their oppressors (or however the fuck he'd put it) and were manipulated to like someone enough to hand over power to that person.
if i remember it correctly the took family was sorta kinda the kings of the shire because they had the dutie to call togheter an armie if there ever was an outside threat. i think tolkien just wanted to live in the shire.

>>11896779
so basically Tolkien had an idea to write a story like aSoIaF but said "naw that sounds like shite"

>>11898729
GRRM wishes he could put as much autistic detail into his world as your average /tg/ user

>>11902559
how do you say 'based and redpilled' in quenya?

>>11902636
>i think tolkien just wanted to live in the shire.

Well yes, but his preference against democracy doesn't make him right wing. I'm not arguing that he wasn't a strange form of anarchist, but he was an anarchist nonetheless and people trying to pretend he was some kind of fascist are literally ignoring the words Tolkien said on the subject.

His letter to the third reich is very illuminating to shut down the idea that he was any type of fascist.

>>11903862
>>11902636
I think he was a guy who just really didn't want to be involved in politics. He wanted to worry about living his own life and have all the crap of managing other people's lives be taken out of his hands, so his ideal world to live in was one where there was a benevolent king but that king was off somewhere else and even made it illegal for men to enter the Shire. So the Shire itself is anarchist but it does away with the issues of how such a culture can be sustained surrounded by other cultures in a plausible way.

>>11902559
This makes me really want to read Martin just to see how much it holds up.
>The more she drank, the more she shat.
But on that note, it brings up an implicit criticism of Tolkien: does anyone in Arda actually shit? There is an uncanny feeling to a world where no one shits and no one has sex with more than one person unless their previous spouse died. Are shitting and sex outside of wedlock reserved for the likes of Bill Ferney?

>>11902559
Beautifully said

>>11896779
>>11902679
Tolkien also said that if he intented LotR to be realistic, it all would end into war between Sauron and Saruman with the fellowship getting stuck in the middle and dying.

>>11892723
Another unpopular opinion: I really hate cancer, and famine, and war, and death, and starvation, and fascism, and racism, and all the bad stuff basically.

>>11898741
Reading those side by side is like having cold water poured on me after taking a warm nap.