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11891499 No.11891499 [Reply] [Original]

The Kali Yuga will consume you too edition
>Thread for discussing the ideas and books of thinkers associated with the Traditionalist school, sometimes also known as the Perennialist school. Including but not limited to:
- Rene Guenon
- Martin Lings
- Seyyed Hossein Nasr
- Frithjof Schuon
- Ananda K. Coomaraswamy
- Julius Evola
- Titus Burckhardt
- Philip Sherrard
- Marco Pallis etc
>Also thinkers indirectly affiliated, influenced by, or similar to Traditionalism:
- Henry Corbin
- William Chittick
- Mircea Eliade
- Arthur Avalon
- Ernst Juenger etc

>> No.11891558
File: 17 KB, 300x283, atlantis.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11891558

Best stuff on Atlantis?

>> No.11891598

>>11891558
Graham Hancock unironically

also: look up the 'eye of africa' in Mauritania and how people think it was Atlantis

>> No.11891604

>>11891558
As a theme within metaphysics? Mystery of the Grail covers it along with other mythical places like Avalon
I heard Joscelyn Godwin has a good book called Atlantis and the Cycles of Time, but I have yet to read it myself

>> No.11891626

>>11891604
I have not read that one but I own his 'Mystery Religions of the Ancient World' which was very good.

>> No.11891678

Can someone explain to why the traditionalists think poorly of Darwinian evolution? Evola and Guenon always say how it is misguided but I haven't seen them go into any detail with regards to it.

>> No.11891729

>>11891678
Essentially, one can not rise from nothing. You either descend from God/the All/Divinity or are not and as such an animal. Now Evola makes the point that Humans are inherently Divine as a race but have fallen to animal states

>> No.11891800

Where do I start with Eliade?

>> No.11891820

>smoking cigarettes
dropped

>> No.11891830

>>11891800
He's one of the easiest men to read and get into, he treads over a lot of the same things in multiple books. I like his Myth and Reality, and I read Volume 1 of his History of Religion which I thought was good but the whole series is about $100

>> No.11891831

>>11891820
Evola was a mountain climber not a yuppie yoga freak.

>> No.11891847

>>11891800
Forge and the Crucible.

>> No.11891860

>>11891820
Kali-Yuga hit him hard. Even you would be smoking while confined to a wheelchair in the aftermath of WW2 seeing everything crumble around you

>> No.11891866

https://youtu.be/tHYyC8L6h7E

>> No.11891870
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11891870

>>11891866
>Abdal Hakim Murad

>> No.11891881

>>11891870
hes based. I remind you guenon was known as Abdal Wahid Yahya

>> No.11891888

>>11891881
guenon died a cuck

>> No.11891895
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11891895

>>11891866
>islamaboo perennialists

Is there anything more pathetic?

>> No.11891899
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11891899

>>11891881
>Born René-Jean-Marie-Joseph Guénon
>Later known as Abd al-Wāḥid Yaḥyá عبد الواحد يحيى

>> No.11891904

>>11891820
>traditionalist
>not smoking or drinking

>> No.11891932

>>11891678
Guenon talks about it a bit in 'East and West' though it's in the dense and meandering way he does sometimes where you get a sense of his idea but without being able to pin it down. I don't think he was denying the idea that the most fit survive and are the ones to make kids. It's more that Darwinian evolution sorta presupposes biological reductionist materialism as well as the linear progress view of history. It also presupposes that there is no intent or divine will to anything. He never denies survival of the fittest as a concept and he doesn't explictly say intelligent design is true but he still manages to critique it from this view. A TLDR of his criticism might be that in a conventional sense survival of the fittest is true, but that we are not our bodies but all beings are really just the Divine which existed before and will exist after humankind. The association of awareness or Atma with humankind and the planet earth at this moment would be just one brief and particular moment in literally eternity and it's all as equally illusionary and transient as all the other beings that have arisen over the course of eternity. From this view the idea of a 'linear progress' becomes meaningless becuase it's just one of a series of an infinite number of beings none of which are real in an absolute sense. Also evolution giving rise to progressively more complex minds and intelligent life would be seen as wrong because conciousness is seen as preceding the arising of the bodies which serve as its vessel.

>> No.11892046

>>11891895
Pretty much all smart men were islamoboos...

>> No.11892116

>>11891932
>as well as the linear progress view of history
nah not at all pseud if anything it explicitly denies it

>> No.11892120

>>11892046
Name 17

>> No.11892184

>>11892120
Fernando Pessoa

>> No.11892189

>>11892120
Pretty much anyone pre 1950s

>> No.11892203

Did Evola actively try to look like a comic villain?

>> No.11892221

>>11892184
16 to go
>>11892189
I want names faggot

>> No.11892226

>>11892221
Hitler and Nietzsche, that's all I need

>> No.11892228

>>11891499
All shitty pseuds.

>> No.11892242

>writers to avoid....the thread

>> No.11892244

>>11892116
That's more a matter of perspective. I didn't elaborate in that post but he talks about how the idea of 'evolution' after widespread acceptence of darwinianism began to be applied to other spheres and characterized people's understanding of many things. For example the view of political history as a gradual evolution to egalitarian democracy as a linear progression and so on.

>> No.11892252

>>11892242
>>11892228
not an argument

>> No.11892265
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11892265

Shouldn't you people be concentrating on vidya and capeshit as your primary cultural endeavours?

>> No.11892321

>>11892265
Who are you addressing that question to, the 'traditionalists' or the shitposters and people arguing against it?

>> No.11892341
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11892341

>>11892252
>cultist for brainlets or pseudo-ironic meemee....you decide. BET BET BET !!

>> No.11892363

>>11892221
Nietzche, Hitler, Napoleon, Comte, Voltaire (used to hate Islam, became a huge Islamboo), Goethe, Gandhi, Montesquieu, Hugo, Lamartine, Churchill (had a love/hate relationship with Islam), Le Bon, H.G Wells, Tolstoy, Rimbaud, Garaudy, Étienne Dine

>> No.11892401

>>11892341
>not an argument

>> No.11892489
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11892489

Has anyone here read Yuga and if so, what are your thoughts on Glass' analysis? I posted a few excerpts in the Jean Baudrillard thread for those who are interested.
>>11891969
>>11892359
>>11892460

>> No.11892519

>>11891820
Can I still smoke my pipe?

>> No.11892532

>>11891904
real trads only ceremonially drink red wine to get closer to the divine, and only socially smoke cigars.

>> No.11892546

who can explain the point of traditionalism?

>> No.11892569

>>11892546
Tech is good but the other effects of modernity are bad. And before you say all the current benefits we have, just wait. Traditionalism survived for millenia, modernity only the last cemtury with many big wars.

"Not all things in the past were bad" is effectively what trad is.

>> No.11892578

>>11892546
A return to feudalism.

>> No.11892592
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11892592

>>11892546
Life was fucking fantastic before the niggers and before women

>> No.11892596

>>11892569
I'm still not convinced you can separate technology from the other effects. It's all part of the same technique.

>> No.11892608

>>11892596
well, its not for society, its for men who want to attain something else.

I can use tech without agreeing with the newest cutural sexual depravity conjured up in california.

>> No.11892620

>>11892532
>not the psychedelic Soma of the Vedas

>> No.11892648

Traditionalism is like world literature for intellectually dishonest fascists

>> No.11892650
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11892650

So are traditionalists becoming muslims or what? It's not unbelievable to think that people who value the ways of old would flock to a religion that has remained consistent for hundreds of years

>> No.11892712

>>11892650
Some of them are but I don't think it's a legitimate option because of how easily fractured Islam is. I see the entire religion as just another form of Protestantism.

>> No.11892730

>>11892650
any religion with a unbroken tradition is good enough

>> No.11892735

>>11891499
i notice you dont mention Blavatsky, is she not considered part of the canon?

IVe been reading this
https://mega.nz/#F!AE5yjIqB!y7Vdxdb5pbNsi2O3zyq9KQ!1Ro3HLzI

x has a huge folder on occult stuff, which includes traditionalist thinkers to some degree, if you guys are interested

>> No.11892741

>>11892648
I imagine everybody who unironically uses the word fascist as an epithet to be a gay male feminist with a skinnyfat body, is this unreasonable?

>> No.11892759

>>11892730
And that would be?

>> No.11892761

>>11892741
no, as it is a legitimate term

>> No.11892768
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11892768

>>11892532
Sounds like Enlightenment larping.

>> No.11892770

>>11892741
Thanks for proving my point.

>> No.11892772

>>11892648
Wrong, Facism is a throughly modernist movement and has little to do with Traditionalism. You only equate the two in your mind because you have been indoctrinated to view egalitarianism and democracy as normal and the default position whereas in actuality they are abnormalities, hence with every deviation from your imagined norm that's vaguely right-wing you associate it with the worst example in your mind of how one could deviate from it.

>> No.11892773

>>11892735
>she
dropped

>> No.11892777
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11892777

>>11892569
>tech good
>good tech
>tradition good
>good tradition

>> No.11892782

>>11892569
In other words, the slowest liberals.

>> No.11892799

>>11892759
Hinduism

>> No.11892807

>>11892184
ded

>> No.11892810

>>11892772
#NotAllFascists

>> No.11892842

>>11892735
She is not. Guenon wrote a book attacking Theosophy as nonsense which sort of cemeted her as bad in the Traditionalist world (not unfairly I might add). She never learned any of the languages related to the eastern stuff she talked about, she majorly misunderstood certain Sanskrit words etc, it was quite obvious to anyone who has studied that stuff in depth that she had pulled most of it out of her ass. That wasn't just the opinion of Guenon too but was shared by most scholars then and now.

>> No.11892849

>>11892782
Not liberal, some values are immovable.

Rapid change (revolution) has always been bad.

>> No.11892861

>>11892532
>and only socially smoke cigars.
who are you to say this photo wasn't from a social thing? another person taking the photo makes it already a social meeting

>> No.11892895

>>11892842
I see. So I should just drop her? I am finding that book intriguing

>> No.11892915
File: 34 KB, 655x527, 02f.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11892915

>>11892777
>>11892768

Can someone please explain this meme? i keep seeing it and wow the girl is cute but what does it mean

>> No.11892933

>>11892849
And liberalism holds some of those immovable values. So my point stands.

>> No.11892934

>>11892933
Such as?

>> No.11892937

>>11892915
A quick rundown
>>11892093

>> No.11892950

>>11892895
It's up to you, if you are enjoying it you might as well finish it but if you want a different perspective than I guess read Guenon et al, just be aware that there are basically no authentic Eastern texts that back up what she says and she is just presenting an amalgamation of her own ideas as ancient truths revealed to her by wise men. Even if you decide its bullshit it could still be interesting as a case study of how people invent their own doctrines and then use them to accrue money and influence. Even though the Nazi Thule stuff was largely made-up bullshit and they actually knew very little about the Indo-Europeans it's still interesting to read about what was going on at the time etc.

>> No.11893049

I have an Evola collection with a few of them aren't available on Libgen. If anyone has any that aren't on there let me know.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1sabB3lT9l6vi0RRndbL0f4ZKEp5X8EJE

>> No.11893084

>>11892712
>I see the entire religion as just another form of Protestantism
This so much. American Protestant theology basically just Islamic theology with Christian imagery.

>> No.11893115

>>11893084
Can you elaborate? I'm not seeing the connection

>> No.11893124

>>11893115
Connect this.

>> No.11893141

>>11893115
We're talking about the buffet style theology that followers have where they pick and choose what they want to believe in. There's no real bedrock or underlying principle which can act as an authority and unify people.

>> No.11893185

>>11893141
So, are you just applying that to all religions which don't have a single religious authority at the top because you are low-key trying to argue Catholicism is best but without fully commiting to the argument? Everything you said could be said about Christianity too, in fact over its lifespan Christianity has fractured way more than Islam has. You also are greatly downplaying the amount of unity provided by the Quran which is the bedrock of Islam.

>> No.11893193

>>11892712
>. I see the entire religion as just another form of Protestantism.
basically. Mohammed is just an ultraProtestant 800 years before actual Protestantism, larping as a prophet

>> No.11893218

>>11893185
I'm not a Christian precisely because many of the problems have with Islam apply to them. I'm talking about a sort of fracturing that doesn't exist in Buddhism, Confucianism, or Hinduism which I consider the most authentic. That's not to say there isn't disagreements between those traditions but it's just not on the same level. The minute Mohammed died the Islam split in two and started killing each other and they've been killing themselves since then over a conflict on the role of Quran, whether it's co-eternal not so it can't be considered an underlying principle.

>> No.11893244

>>11893218
Hinduism is insanely fractured, to the point where it isn't even clear what holds all the HIndu religions together

>> No.11893342

>>11893244
The Vedas you pseud

>> No.11893821

>>11892569
You're a liberal. Social change and technological change go hand in hand. See Ted Kazynski's writings.

>> No.11893828

>>11892608
But that degeneracy is required and even created by the technology. Look at what smartphones have done to dumb down our society. You can't separate them.

>> No.11893832

>>11893828
>>11893821
hmm so tech is inherently the problem...

Fuck man where do we go from here

>> No.11893906

>>11893832
The Butlerian Jihad. Dune was non-fiction.

>> No.11894001

>>11893832
Wait for the end times.

>> No.11894008

>>11893342
So the same argument literally every religion uses.

>> No.11894440

>>11892650
This is where the main split in modern Traditionalism is, too many of them have a fetish for unbroken lines and as such see only Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism as valid.

>> No.11894467 [DELETED] 
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11894467

>> No.11894849

>>11891499
would it be correct to say the Perennialism of the Traditionalist school is simply Hinduism?

>> No.11895011
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11895011

Anyone familiar with the Traditionalist school notion of the UFO phenomenon?

I first encountered this concept when reading René Guénon´s "Reign of Quantity", especially the chapter "Fissures in the Great Wall"
>"Fissures" (are) the paths whereby certain destructive forces are already entering, and must continue to enter ever more freely; according to traditional symbolism these "fissures" occur in the "Great Wall" which surrounds the world and protects it from the intrusion of maleficent influences coming from the inferior subtle domain.
>Thus the world is exposed defenceless to all the attacks of its enemies, the more so because, the present-day mentality being what it is, the dangers which threaten it are wholly unperceived.
>In the Islamic tradition these "fissures" are those by which, at the end of the cycle, the devastating hordes of Gog and Magog will force their way in, [fn3] for they are unremitting in their efforts to invade this world; these "entities" represent the inferior influences in question.

Even though Guénon does not directly talk about the UFO phenomenon, he does liken these forces to infra-psychic domain of the Jinn etc. more subtle worlds.

Charles Upton takes on this concept in some of his books: whereas before these encounters of previous centuries were likened to demonic entities: entering 60s we entered this New-Age idea of "Space Brothers" or "Ufos" or visitors from another planets.

This being a deception, according to Upton, for these "beings" are nothing more than infra-psychic and demonic entities whose sole appearance coincided with the explosion of the atom bomb and end of WWII.

Whereas in previous centuries these "night terrors" were attributed to demons, jinn, succubi etc. entering our "post-modern" worldview and New-Age we talk of abductions, "space visitors" and aliens.

What does /lit/ think of this and any thoughts/literature on the ufo phenomenon?
Demons or interstellar visitors from another planets? Infra-psychic hostile forces that are entering now our domain since we are nearer to the eschatological End Times? Share your thoughts. What are they? Just planning to order pic related book.

>> No.11895418
File: 12 KB, 216x233, jingers.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11895418

>>11891866
>>11891870
what's with ginger jihadis? every. single. time.

>> No.11895683

Anybody got the Chad Vedanta Virgin Veda meme? It was honestly the best use of the meme in a religious context I've seen.
>>11895011
That's an interesting theory, it could just be literal spirits showing up in the world now. I prefer to think probably a mix of aliens, public fucking up psyche, and some spirits.

>> No.11896072

>>11894849
No that would be incorrect. It's probably true that explicitly perennial-like ideas are most common in Hinduism but they are found in many other places too. Ibn Arabi expresses perennial ideas in his writings as do various other Sufi poets and mystics. Daoist texts are rife with implicit perennialism etc. Hinduism is typically focused on by them because it has very in-depth metaphysical writings but it's not the entire basis of their ideas. Generally most of them agree on there being a transcendent and infinite Divinity which is at the same time the highest or absolute reality, but one can find this explicitly described in Vedanta, Tantra, Sufism, Sikhism, Daoism, Neoplatonism and to a certain extent in Mahayana. They don't need to rely on Hinduism for this because its elaborated in many other traditions. Some of them take it as their focus while others don't.

>> No.11896090

>>11894008
The disagreements
between Hindus over doctrine is comparatively small to the overwhelming amount of stuff they agree on. It's a very brainlet argument to make that because there are internal disagreements about doctrines that it's not actually one religion.

>>11894440
As opposed to what, teaching yourself from books? I don't see people as having a 'fetish' for unbroken chains but it remains the case that those are some of the only things which still have qualified teachers capable of imparting that kind of knowledge. Nobody says that it's bad to study and read texts from a bunch of different doctrines but practically speaking if you want to reach a serious level of spiritual attainment the importance of a qualified teacher is almost unanimously agreed upon by most religions. If you seek out a western Neoplatonic teacher they will just be giving you their own interpretation, you have no way of knowing what the actual members of Plotinus's students were taught. Yeah sure there are Christian mystics you can read but the same problem applies.

>> No.11896115

what's wrong with just taking up yoga?

>> No.11896168

>>11896115
Are you talking about Yoga classes in the west? Because that's just stretching with occasional breath control without any intellectual understanding, they don't talk about doctrine at all. People can and often do go to Yoga classes in the west for decades while remaining completely unaware about basic aspects of doctrine. It's not bad in itself and is good exercise but you won't get anywhere just going to Yoga classes. This is even the case in certain parts of India too although there are still legitimate teachers there. I would actually recommend Yoga but if you want anything more than a workout you should be extensively reading texts alongside your Yoga practice.