/lit/ - Literature

realize philosophy is retarded and go back to living your life

>>11891618
>everything is constructed, artifical
>this makes you depressed
I guess Stoics+Neetshe of you don't end up becoming a fedoralord. Also
>not starting with the greeks

>>11891630
i'm not gonna be a fedoralord
idk kierkegaard is the most hope i can get

>>11891618
Push into it and read more Heidegger, then go back to Aristotle and Plato

>>11891618
read eastern philosophy

>all meaning is artificial
I make it real, so it's real for me

>>11891618
Maybe psychoanalysis, try to see it in relation to other sciences and/or your previous acquired lenses.

>>11891641
You can read those without becoming one, it's just regularly recommended/shit on because most people don't. Kierk is good, I also like Hegel and Locke. Basically read ideas and find which ones make sense. You can pick and pull certain things and ignore others of many philosophers to follow what N truly said.

>>11891618
Reading won't get you nowhere.

Stop focusing on internally and start living externally

>>11891674
I shouldn´t have said maybe.

Definitely look in to Psychoanalysis.
Karen Horney
Alexander Lowen
M. Scott Peck

>>11891641
>>11891680
Forgot Sartre

>>11891618
Have you read Deleuze? He is very life affirming and about joy.
>>11891657
Also read Zhuangzi he is the chink Nietzsche and is super comfy

Realize that all of this is true and attests the absurdity of this realm. This world is a flawed world created by an evil god. If you were assigned to this then you were probably a lazy soul and got caught on the great purge.
>i'm left with blind faith in God and hopes that there's a way to break out of this
When we die our souls are no longer assigned to this universe and we're free of this bestiality, thus, live your life in whatever way you see fit and wait for the afterlife redemption. He does not have power over our souls, but he can control our bodies. He isn't omniscient, but he has a higher degree of perception, so you shouldn't think about these matters too loudly or else he will end you (probably in a faux-rational way).

Realize that the artificial reality is the true reality. How could you know a “true” reality when this is all you’ve known as true?

>>11891718
>artificial reality
>true reality
make a distinction between the two. when you say true reality do you mean the noumena?

>>11891618
>>start realizing that our entire structure of experience is constructed
>>every way that we interact with reality is artificial
>>all meaning is artificial
>>everything is a narrative that we've created
>>everything is a narrative i've bought into
>>everyone i know is lost
All these were my default mindset before I even started reading philosophy so I have never been able to give a damn about philosophers like Kant and I have never been able to appreaciate "knowledge" at least in the sense I think you are trying to express
This makes me unhappy

>>11891714
>evil god
God is god, God is and nothing else. Labels are a by-product of your human mortality and fear

>>11891718
Nothing is artificial or natural, reality is reality and that's all

read stirner

>>11891789
Yes but you are missing one thing - What. does. it. MEAN?
I´m not even being incensere. follow the rabbit.

>>11891790
Actually - god is the mechanisms of benign intention that creates currents/energy which one can observe evolutionary.

>>11891790
What the fuck dude have you even opened your eyes?This was all revealed to me in a dream. I was there at the creation, he's a joke. Gravity was supposed to bind everything together but he didn't have enough force (you're supposed to have triple the amount of force) and the end result is this spherical monstruosity compared to the flat planes of the above heavens. When he was giving weight to elementary particles he couldn't figure out how to balance it, first it had too much and the weight of the particles collapsed in itself, not being able to sustain the soul. Then it was too light, the soul could easily manipulate the particles and float around through the universe, even ataining direct influence on it. The goal was too trap the soul forever in the body, the end result is this midway in which we control our bodies and the enviroment somewhat but we can't really control the fundamental forces. He is incompetent.
>Nothing is artificial or natural, reality is reality and that's all
You believe in the mind-awareness dualism? Faggot. Fiction is reality. The past doesn't exist. If the past were true, we would be able to interact with it, and see direct evidence of it, but we can't. And don't tell me that decay is evidence of time. Each point of time is dependent of the previous and the next. If they weren't linked then there would be a causation gap, each point of time being its own universe. If time is linked then it's One and deterministic and it happens at a single point of 'time', everything experiencing all of its life at once. We see this, one single frame of time in which everything happens at once and the mind gives it meaning (you can even point out how you sleep for 8 hours not noticing it). If the past is a story created by the mind giving meaning to a chaotic mess, then the 'future' is the mind prophesying what will happen in the future (since the mind has already experienced everything). Your thoughts and imagination are only random noise from the future because the soul trapped here is flawed, and can't distinct time properly(blame him for being a incompetent god). Everything that you've ever imagined is true. Fiction is true. It's a self fulfilling prophecy of the mind that has already experienced the One, thus literally true.
>reality is reality and that's all
I agree.

>>11891618
The central flaw behind Western civilization is the creator/creation dichotomy which is associated with substance metaphysics and the idea of thing-in-itselfness, that something only needs itself to exist, removed from anything else. This is the philosophical justification for private property, which requires dismissing parallelism and focusing only on linear causality. Substance metaphysics is the metaphysics of alienation, and one possible route to transcend this is process metaphysics, in which thing-ness is the total web of relationships between an event and everything else. In this view there is no distinction between a creator and a creation, and the concept of a singular creator creating a singular creation is replaced by an immanent creativity in which all events co-author the tapestry of existence.

The perception of reality that comes with this is all of existence as continually co-creating art, of not a singular purpose and meaning but an infinite number of them, a universe alive with unfathomable richness and depth of meaning that while we can only glimpse a small fraction of, such glimpses give a hint of the hidden vastness that while unreachable to us, can be experienced. Try to imagine your life as a relationship with the universe, not in a paternalistic sense or a dominative sense (as with the idea that the universe is a passive, meaningless void upon which one creates meaning out of,) but in a mutualistic sense of complete equality. Remember that this isn't a relationship between yourself and a singular unity, but a web of relationships of which the totality comprises your life, including your relationship with yourself. Seek mutualistic co-creative relationships in all affairs, not just between humans but all things, including elements of yourself, and you will find well-being and happiness.

Your afterlife is literally what happens after your life: there is no distinction between you and the rest of the universe, and so your becoming is truly immortal; you live on as the universe. Those who place all meaning in their own existence have their meaning die with them, but those who place their meaning in all that is outside them have immortal meaning.

>>11891957
I don't understand what are you trying to say

>>11891618
All sources of meaning being artificial doesn't mean that all sources of meaning are equally conducive to promoting healthy societies.

The fact that we construct narratives in order to explain phenomena be barely understand doesn't mean that there's no objective reality out there that we don't force those narratives to conform to.

Even in a postmodern framework, there's still some objectivity to hold onto.

>>11891618
Depression is constructed too. You're deciding to be unhappy. Make do with American Pragmatism, with instrumentalism, with utilitarianism. There is truth out there, but in uncertain degrees. Make do with what you've got and don't try to stake things in certainties. Be humble.

>>11891618
lol faggot

Youve taken the red pill. Now endure it and start with mysticism.

>>11892009
fuck yes, Good post my dude

>>11892009
What are some books that develop these ideas?

>>11892009
books on this?

It's almost like the entire purpose of this gibberish is to break you down psychologically.

>>11891618
>every way that we interact with reality is artificial
>all meaning is artificial
>everything is a narrative that we've created
>everything is a narrative i've bought into
>everyone i know is lost
>i'm left with blind faith in God and hopes that there's a way to break out of this

Why does these depress you so? It's simply the way the universe works. If you were a god and had the power to change all of the above, but didn't for one reason or the other, you would have every reason to be sad about it and feel regret. But you're only a human, you have no power to change such things, just like you have no power to stop natural disasters by snapping your fingers. Since you can't do anything about it, why woe and cry about how sad reality is rather than accept it and just live your life happily?
I really don't get this mindset, and I see it in most modern people who favorite existentialism, even tho I'm pretty sure existentialism has nothing to do with it. I've had a person say to me something along the lines of "This is the bitter pill existentialism offers you, but you either have to swallow it or live in ignorance". But why is it considered bitter? It's just how life works, nothing bitter about that.

>>11892164
Dewey and r*rty aren't pragmatists. True American pragmatism is realist. The universal properties of concreta, in certain cases are direct preceptions of reality. General truths about abstracta, can give us theories describing real metaphysical principles. This is of course with the caveat that all truth is fallible.
If you want pragmatism, in the beginning look no further than theories of Peirce and James.
Also utilitarianism isn't coherent with the sui generis way of going about ethics implicit in pragmatic theories of truth.

>>11892204
Not him. But if you want to get into process metaphysics.
The Essential Peirce
Process and reality

>>11892009
The only times i've ever been truly happy were the times i've been able to internalize this sort of universalism. It's just impossible to be both economically secure and eschew a worldview based on domination in a Western economic framework.

>>11892257
Adding to this I'm sure deleuze as something to say. I haven't read any of his metaphysical tomes besides cinema but he is definitely a process metaphysician and ecological thinker. Don't discount d&g either, I see ATP frequently cited in that kind of thinking. Same with guitaries own work the three ecologies. Biosemiotics is a big deal for that kind of thinking too.
Just a personal note, before I got into philsophy, I got all this implicitly by studying ecology, evolution and general theories of life. Also, I would be lying if I said heavy psychedelic use didn't have a crucial impact during that time.

>>11892247
Fuck off, I'm not a Rorty or Dewey adherent.

>>11892291
Regardless, instrumentalism isn't real pragmatism.

read buddhist "anatta" non-self or substanceless doctrine

"beliefs aren't a bunch of stuff you happen to like the idea of". OP has learned this for himself and is a significantly better person than most of the fuccbois on /newlit/

>>11891962
benign?

>>11891618
Books for this feel?

>>11891618
>we live in an infinite, interlaced network of stories, and each one of us represents the turning of the page in a narrative older than any extant concept of God
>this is somehow a bad thing
seriously?

>>11891618
Why in the fuck would you read postmodern philosophy in the first place

>>11891630
>Neetshe
>perspectivism
yeah, skip that. Neech was a proto-postmodernist

>>11891618
>needing philosophers to actually tell you this in order for you to realize this
I didn't know I was surrounded by people who are actually uncapable of high-level introspection

>>11891682
>Facebook Buddha Heart
Jesus.

I would recommend Bernardo Kastrup's More than Allegory.

>>11891618
lol getting kiked into postmodernism.

>>11891985
>>11891714
Yikes

>>11891618
Start studying computer science and realize that most philosophers are soft-skulled pseuds who never had to subject their arguments to a measure of consistency.

>>11891762
>noumena
He's saying you can't make the distinction (which is obvious), you can only treat what you experience as the best truth you'll ever get, pseud.

>>11897667
fuck off
data structures and multithreading aren't a substitute for transcendent meaning

>try reading philosophy
>makes no sense
I guess I’m just retarded.

>>11898397
they also just have nothing to do with reality at all

>>11891625
fucking /thread

>>11891618

>>11891618
dont listen to the anons telling you philosophy is stupid. read simulcara and simulation. Delve deeper into this false reality. See it for what it is and mostly what is not.

All of reality is facade.

>>11894519
kys

>>11891618
read deluze

>>11891618
>he didn't start with the Greeks

You fucked up, OP.

>>11891625
t. npc

>>11899658
read homer and realize humans are part of mother nature's perfect system and that government is as organic a social construct as the pecking order of a pack of wolves.read plato's republic and understand the parable of the cave.

>>11891618
Watch Jordan B. Peterson and Ben Shapiro destroy postmodernism for being pseudoscience

>>11891618
Realize that despite our actions mainly being driven by chemical reactions, and the fact that ultimately, outside of the scope of the human world, nothing we do matters, we still do very peculiar and unique things. Like if a computer program was given the command to survive and reproduce and then it went to the moon on a whim.

>>11891618
Embarrassing post, OP. I'm very sorry you feel for the post-modern meme. I hope that you're able to deal with the gentle mental illness and the addictions you're soon to develop to gay indie music and weed. Good luck, OP. God is always waiting when you snap out of your daze.

>>11901038
God can only be justified through postmodernism now, unless you're trying to apply the scientific method to religion. Better people than you have tried, and failed

Lift weights to raise your test levels cuck and stop being depressed. Then realize that deep philosophy about reality is useless in s o c i e t y unless you profit of it. Get a job and make your family proud.
-AMERICA

>>11891618
should've started with Plato

>>11900939
No, dont do this. This will only ensure a path of becoming a pseudo intellectual.

>>11901229
>>11901038
>>11900926
>>11898429
>>11898402
t. Brainlet npc

>>11901379
(((good goy spend your limited time on this planet reading dense unfalsifiable texts written over thousands of years and getting into pointless arguments instead of living life to the fullest!)))

>>11901409
(((good goy living life to the fullest is predicated on material and worldly success and not the struggle to cultivate truth, goodness, and beauty in your own soul by reading the thoughts of some of the greatest minds of antiquity)))

lol yeah dude the jews want us all to read Plotinus, lmao nigga you don't know what planet you're on

>>11891618
There's nothing to do, just sit there and wait for the end

>>11891762
>when you say true reality do you mean the noumena?

How to spot retards 101

>>11901229
>>11901409
>these are the people you share a board with

>>11901409
YES YES, being a mindless consumer is the only true way to be happy! Just live your life, dont question anything! Questioning power structures are bad, very bad, and will just make you unhappy. Here, take some prozac this will make everything better. No? YOURE CRAZY! SEND HIM TO PRISON, THE LOONEY BIN.

Isnt that better? Now we can keep consuming and being happy.

>>11901684
>reading about whether the body and mind are two separate things and trying to figure out what things *really* are will help me avoid buying iPhones
me so intellectual!!!

>>11891957
Read this guy

Tl;DR - Back in the 60s he enrolled in a Transcendental Meditation class and discovered an aptitude for it. He then discovered Bob Monroe was seeking scientists for the study of consciousness with the help of the scientific method.

He agrees with other notable philosophers and scientists including Hans Moravec, Nick Bostrom, Brian Whitworth, Marcus Arvan and others, who hypothesize that reality is akin to a simulation generated by a computer, while Campbell contends reality evolved from a "digital big bang". These ideas are heavily influenced by the concepts of digital physics.

The work seeks to unify general relativity, quantum mechanics, and metaphysics along with the origins of consciousness.

Here is MBT in a nutshell:
>The only thing that is fundamental is consciousness – all else is virtual.
>Consciousness is a self modifying evolving digital information system.
>The consciousness system is finite and imperfect.
>Physical reality is a virtual reality.
>There are many virtual reality frames and we exist in several of them.
>Physical and non physical are not fundamental – it is only a matter of perspective.
>Evolution criteria, Love, and spiritual growth are all defined in terms of entropy a measurable quantity.
>There are three data bases: The Probable Future data base; the past data base (all that did happen); and the data base of all the probabilities that might have happened but didn’t.
>There is no such thing as an objective reality – all reality is interpreted. Light, energy, energy bodies, guides, etc– consciousness is the only active ingredient.
>The "paranormal" is perfectly normal.
>Quantum Mechanics is derivable from first principles.
>Physics and metaphysics become one understanding.
>Metaphysics, philosophy and theology all become transparent and one can easily see and derive the threads of Big Truth that run through them. These are just the tip of the iceberg.

>>11901409
>"""unfalsifiable"""

Go back to plebbit if your going to rely on Popperian liberal-Jewish concepts like """falsifiability""" or the lack thereof.

>>11901695
Wow, youve completely shattered my worldview with those wild assumptions!

>>11891618
read Marcuse and realize that post modernism can lead to something

>>11892938
I believe it's being used colloquially as benign refers to non malignant. Unintended/ unconscious manifestation... not op so I don't know

>Everything is artificial/construct
Post-structualists are so naive.

>>11891962
Ive have this thought for a while, but didnt know how to articulate it. I like your articulation of that concept.

you don't need any more philosophy to prove all that bullshit wrong, just eat some mushrooms

>>11891625
>>11891618
>>11891714
>>11900864
>>11901421
>>11901695
>>11902059
Blow it out your ass

>>11891695
>Have you read Deleuze? He is very life affirming and about joy.

*kills himself*

>>11901561
Yeah jesus Christ, this board used to at least read. Now it's like /fit/ where a bunch of losers pretend they lift.

>>11891682
>Reading won’t get you nowhere

Is that so? Gee I better not read the rest of this post then

>>11892204
>>11892290
Yes, Deleuze perfectly encapsulates >>11892009

Difference and Repetition is where he lays this out explicitly, especially Chapter 2 on "Repetition for Itself." Be warned the book is extremely difficult, though. A chapter which tackles a lot of the same themes in a more metaphorical way is "The Geology of Morals" in ATP, so that might be a better place to start.

Really though, any one of Deleuze's books is an exploration of a given field taking process ontology and absolute nominalism as givens. So you get process literary criticism, process film theory, process psychology, etc. Deleuze is one of the few Western philosophers who is entirely adaptable to Eastern thinking while still undertaking the explorations into social matters that Easterners tend to avoid.

>>11903300
Ueah wtf happened to all the real 4chan intellectuals. Smh.

>>11891618
The existence of God still doesn't offer you objective meaning. It doesn't matter what plan he has set aside for you because you're free to disagree.

Meaning is just a warped word for value, and it's the same substance behind our aesthetic preferences - which we don't question this way, for some reason. You don't need to base your love of Breaking Bad on some sort of metaphysical absolute. You just like it cuz you like it.

Morality is when you try to make rules that keep your sense of what's right. Wanting a God to offer you meaning is like wanting God to tell you what tv shows you're supposed to like. It's just evading the pressure of autonomy.

Your narrative isn't artificial, it was given to you. You play a reciprocal role with a universe that isn't separate from yourself, and create a unique picture of existence that shouldn't be considered "incorrect" by any means.

Meaning is just liking something. You don't need a scientific pretense to like something. There's no real problem

>>11901695
lol

This bothers you?

>>11891618
>our entire structure of experience is constructed
Of course it is. You think social etiquette or traffic laws or holidays are found in nature? In the subatomic world?

>>11892009
based

good post anon

>>11901717
Ugh I need to write my manifesto. This stuff is all fairly true. The big truth is a collection of rules. An infinite set of universes based on 1 mathematical rule multiplied by an infinite range of rules. If you picture each of those things as circles, with angles being the options, you get a circle multiplied by a circle, which is a horn torus. Now type horn torus into Google Images and see how close we've been brushing to this for a long time.

>>11891680
Hegel is dog shit, the oppresser oppresed view on history is horrible, his writings and the subsequent writings of the young hegelians and all they wrote inspired people who killed 100’s of millions. I hope he’s forgotten in time

Imagine your IQ being so high that instead of learning how computers work or building rocket ships you sit around and think about bro... this pencil... i know it is here now... but bro... i DONT know if it will still be here in 1 second bro this is revolutionary... how can i know if my chair is not real if i am not real and my eyes are real and maybe this is..... ect.

>>11904482
Imagine your IQ being so high that you spend your life learning how computers work and building rocket ships without a moment of critical reflection about anything, but hey, everything is all right because the culture and the economic system you were born into happen to reward you for learning how computers work and building rocket ships.

None of you retards have read the Greeks and it hurts my soul.

>>11904524
Where the fuck do I start with those wizened cunts?

>>11904551
At least the complete corpus of Plato and Aristotle. More as needed.

>>11904553
Thanks, will do.

>>11904551
"The Pre-Socratics"

>>11891618
Post-modernism is a load of shit, read Nietzche to cure your nihilism, the world is your oyster.

>>11904247
Clearly you've never read Hegel. I dont even like Hegel but you're just being short sighted and obtuse.

>>11898397
>data structures and multithreading aren't a substitute for transcendent meaning
I never said they were, I'm saying, and I quote
>most philosophers are soft-skulled pseuds who never had to subject their arguments to a measure of consistency.
I in no way implied that philosophy is worthless, I'm saying most philosophers are actually quite poor thinkers, and that you should discard their ideas because they're poorly reasoned. Believing in ideas that are poorly reasoned is either stupidity or escapism.

>>11902805
>wtf I love Romans now

>>11901729
>science is a liberal-jewish concept

>>11903618
Yes, but you haven't offered him an alternate meaning he can call "true" or "real". He's running to religion because he desperately WANTS the reassurance you get that if you believe in the one true whatever. If he was happy with purely personal meaning, he wouldn't be having an existential crisis, he's just never had to logically confront the fact that meaning is inherently personal. This is a serious problem for some people, and I don't think they can ever overcome it without some degree (if not a ton) of escapism.

>>11904515
That actually sounds pretty reasonable. Sounds like someone being happy and productive in a functional society. It may be that all introspection has its roots in dysfunction or disappointment.

>>11904793
Escapism is just a different way of dealing with existence. Talking with other people or putting your efforts into hobbys or carrier is just as much escapism as watching anime.

>>11901561
spooky

>>11904910
Yes, but there are different philosophical levels of escapism. Escaping boredom is not the same as escaping moral autonomy. Also, reading literature is the same kind of escapism as watching anime, but I think we agree on this point.

>>11903618
>Meaning is just a warped word for value
Um no it isn't. Value is a vacuous form that signifies meaning, it stands for general properties of meaningful experience by a reflexive relationship to meaning. In order to contemplate value, it's meaning, the experiential properties "what it is like" need to be mediated. Value and meaning are completely distinct, and inseparable. Understanding Peirce's semiotic triad will clear this matter up for you real fast.