/lit/ - Literature

That’s a great game

>>11856414
It's dealt with extensively and is often a core concept in many kinds of eastern philosophy (and a few areas of western mysticism). If you are interested in exploring/reaching this state just start reading various Daoist/Hindu/Buddhist/Sufi/Neoplatonic texts etc

>mfw people don't look upon the horizon as the Moon rises and dream of the eternal flux of Humankind.
Yet you call yourselves intellectual

>>11856414
Yes, its one of the most popular reddit-tumblr-ig feelings and is touched on constantly in modernist poetry, philosophy, psychoanalysis, christian mysticism, the occult and eastern thought. its about as interesting as constructivism or deconstructivist theory. Thank you for wasting people’s time, here’s a bump for your trouble’s my fellow redditor.

>>11856511
You are very proud of yourself now, aren't you?

yeah

>>11856511
>tfw almost had amazing feeling but then stopped myself as I realised it's a reddit feeling
phew

>>11856656
good post

>>11856656
based

>>11856414
>It fell from a great height, but it looked quite low, and it was half a mile away, though it did not seem fifty paces.
Yes, a half mile is not fifty paces. This is describing the look from one crest in a valley toward another.
>I loved to listen to it at night, but it was then that I became so restless.
This line doesn't belong here.
>Sometimes I went and climbed the mountain and stood there in the midst of the tall pines, all alone in the terrible silence, with our little village in the distance
Wait, this has nothing to do with the water fall. I guess it is silent because he can't hear it. He is on the other side of the crest.
>and the sky so blue, and the sun so bright, and an old ruined castle on the mountain-side, far away.
After climbing a mountain it is a good idea to share the features of a different mountain far away for sure.
>I used to watch the line where earth and sky met, and longed to go and seek there the key of all mysteries, thinking that I might find there a new life, perhaps some great city where life should be grander and richer - and then it struck me that life may be grand enough even in a prison
At least there is one coherent thought across the green text. The village and the landscape was a prison.

>>11856723
i'm not an actual doctor but i'm just going to go ahead and diagnose you with weapons-grade autism. stick to math.

>>11856723
>After climbing a mountain it is a good idea to share the features of a different mountain far away for sure.
If you climb a mountain only for the sake of that mountain, and not in order to see what's beyond the horizon, and after that go to that beyond in a never ending cycle of wanderlust, then you mustn't eat bacon, because it is made out of your relatives.

>How wonderful it is that in the infinite ocean of myself the waves of living beings arise, collide, play, and disappear, in accordance with their nature

>>11856414
Moby dick

>>11856414
mirrors edge

good game that game is

>>11856656
you're gonna make it

>>11856414
I get that in a negative way. More like being one with the universe but the whole universe is suffering. I call it Oceanic Michelstädter feel.

This appears to be religious experience for atheists.

Yeah I've done psychedelics too

mirrors edge was aesthetic as fuck
it's the only game that conveys a feeling of fresh air

>>11856414
semi-related Freud talks about this feeling a bit but he had never actually experienced it himself, he was just going off what other people told him about it

I think he said it had to do with regressing to a state of infancy or something

freud was just some coked up jew so take this as you will

>>11856414
few times on a cross fade and a few times in sports after years of competency

did Mirrors Edge have a lesbian love story in it or do I just wish it did?

>>11857594
No, that's the flow state. The Oceanic feeling is different.

>>11857440
It's what encountering the divine is supposed to feel like once you move past primitive ritualistic worship of an 'other'. The latter being one of the most simple and entry level ways of appreciating the Divine while the former involves a more subtle and sophisticated understanding. Far from being the domain of athiests, this is actually the standard in many eastern religions and even some areas of Islam, it only seems foreign because Christianity as taught by the church for the most part contains very little teachings which have to do with this; which is one of the major flaws of Christianity.

>>11857987
What about St. John of the Cross, Thomas à Kempis, St. Teresa of Avila etc.

Seems to me like you got the idea that Christianity is lacking in mysticism from Guenon.

>>11858047
Exceptions whose insights would be considered heretical if you tried to formulate them in writing and present to them to most bishops.

>>11858267
So you admit to being a Guenonian.

Guenon used to say that Catholicism was void of genuine mysticism. He was wrong. It is just as full of genuine mystics as the other great religious traditions. There is something suspicious about his anti-Christianity, and there is something affected about his religious universalism. He had the air of someone who dabbled deeply in the study of comparative religion and who thought that therefore he was some kind of enlightened mystic, above the vulgar materialistic masses. His face has an expression of "look at me, look how placid my countenance is, for I concern myself strictly with ethereal matters...".

Reminds me of what Chesterton said about Christian saints. They had their eyes wide open in traditional imagery, for they were contemplating God and not themselves. As opposed to Oriental mystics who get lost looking inwards (and who so often give the air of being not so much mystics as men obsessed with their own detachment from the vulgar, material world).

>>11856656
Its happening, finally

New sincerity is slowly forming

>>11856414
I dont know if I would call this oceanic feeling. I understand what youre trying to get at, but this sense of optimism and satisfaction with life doesnt equate to this oceanic feeling.

This pops up in Koestler's Darkness at Noon, a novel that used to be super popular but is largely unread now

>>11856656
Always what I do on a walk?
>is my feeling for this tree reddit?
>how reddit is this butterfly
>whence the stream of reddit
>who among you is worthy of upvoting the scaled time of the trip home?

>>11857674
Mirrors Edge barely had a story. You hug your sister in fisrt person though, if thats what you're thinking of.

>>11858497
i think the line “it was half a mile away, though it did not seem 50 paces” captures it pretty well. like when you look at the moon and it feels like its less than a mile away. it makes the universe feel small which makes you feel much more “part of it” so to speak. i get the same feeling with clouds sometimes

>>11858410
i like this. a mundane subject against a grand background.

had this once after weeks of meditating. Literally the best feel in my life. Beats eating hamburger after over 5 months of vege and fapping after 17 days of no fapping.

>>11856414
Take 30mg of oxy or 350mg of tramadol and you'll feel it.

>>11857674
the first one didnt, although i just started playing the reboot and knowing modern day ((dice)) i'm sure they'll shove one in somewhere

Isn't that obvious? Categorically we are the universe, because the universe encompasses everything by definition.

>>11859685
Don't do this

It's called Death Consciousness for men which is achieved through intelligence, and orgasm for women which is achieved through primal coitus.

>>11859711
>avoid danger at all costs!!
soi desu

>>11858368
>There is something suspicious about his anti-Christianity

Catholicism is Atheism.

>>11856414
>yfw you remember when it suddenly came to you in one of your most miserable years.

>>11861896
A hot take if I ever saw one. Care to expand?

>>11861915

The Catholic God is as unknowable as the Materialist Cosmos. The Creator-Creation barrier is as absolute as the Subject-Object barrier of Materialism. The means of Salvation indistinguishable from zero-sum Darwinian bestiality.

>>11861915
>>11861941

The last point is particularly awful. Doing any one "good deed" is not doing all other "good deeds" you could have done instead. Doing it for someone is not doing it for all the other ones you could have done it instead. As if this is not awful enough, trying to prioritize deeds and their recipients only makes one exponentially more confused, and, of course exponentially more sinful according to Catholicism, quickly inducing Moral Nihilism wherein one's comprehension of things is reduced to a delirium of disparate images and one's reaction thereto reduced to opportunistic beasthood.

>>11861941
>>11862098
This is some hot garbage, Anon. Thanks.

>>11862123

Also note the Catholic God's relation to Earthly tyrants. He is not qualitatively distinct, only quantitatively worse. He is only superior in that...he can kill them. Note how deadbeats admire Musk et al., it's how Catholics admire their God.

>>11862306
Your diatribes are unconvincing. They don't seem to spring from deep conviction or from any kind of serious, mature reasoning. There's also a quite perceptible note of self-pity. It just sounds like you're angry at your dad or whatever.

>>11856414
One time I was on a cruise and I had this exact feeling

>>11862338

Inferring thoughts from words is Catholic taboo.

>>11862338
>>11862398

I would ask you what your rebuttal would be had I appeared to have argued from "deep conviction or mature reasoning" but you should retreat now lest you incur even more sin, and lest your prowess of...having memorized books be put to undignifying use.

>>11858368

>Guenon used to say that Catholicism was void of genuine mysticism.
That's wrong actually, he specifically said that Christianity (of the post-medieval era) contains mysticism but not metaphysical teachings which in his definition is that which essentially allows for knowledge and direct experience of the Absolute; mysticism being difference from this in the sense that it's more of a passive experience of the mystery of the divine as opposed to an active experience where you all at the same time see/experience/understand/are the reality of the Divine (in this later context there would be no mystery left as a basis for anything mystical because all questions would be answered). If you want to effectively rebute his ideas you should at least know what you are talking about.

>It is just as full of genuine mystics as the other great religious traditions.
Yes it has mysticism but offers no path to Absolute knowledge in this life but only makes unsubstantiated claims that it can grant that knowledge in the next, indeed the central premise of Christianity is faith. What Christianity says can be reached in the next life as a result of faith the eastern religions allow one to reach while still alive.

>There is something suspicious about his anti-Christianity,
He is not anti-Christian, most of his work actually seems to be tinged with a faint sense of sadness and regret that Christianity doesn't offer this kind of knowledge or no longer does anymore after having lost it. It remains the case that modernity emerged in Christian society. If you view modernity (and the associated rise in atheism, nihilism etc) as bad in any way the unavoidable truth you have to eventually face is that modernity is closely bound up with the areas where Christianity is lacking and emerged because certain needs and truths which most other religions fulfill was no longer being sufficiently fulfilled by the Church.

>and there is something affected about his religious universalism.
He was not a religious universalist but pointed out an easily observable fact which can be confirmed by any non-brainlet who reads enough of the primary texts, namely that in most religions or the esoteric areas of them are taught ideas having to do with that there is a divine/metaphysical unity or non-dualism underlying everything.

>>11858368
>Reminds me of what Chesterton said about Christian saints
You should automatically disregard everything said by chronically obese people, if they can't control their own weight how can you expect their ideas to be of any worth?

>They had their eyes wide open in traditional imagery, for they were contemplating God and not themselves. As opposed to Oriental mystics who get lost looking inwards
Here yet again is an example of befuddled Christians trying to have it both ways by maintaining that Christianity is mystical! while simultaneously attacking eastern religions for being mystical in much of the same way Christianity is. Much of the mysticism in Christianity stems from it mixing with Neoplatonism and many of the most prominant mystic Christians were heavily influenced by Neoplatonism and/or Hermeticism which themselves are where western thought comes closet to the east. Aside from this the other main type of mysticism is a vague type of panentheism that still maintains a clear distinction between God and not-God such as St. John.

All of these types of mysticism are highly similar to various kinds of eastern thought and indeed these often play way more prominent roles in those religions than they do in Christianity. You must know little about eastern thought if you think they focusing on contemplating the self (the ego and the individual person), almost all of them take as their starting basis transcending those things so that one may perceive the divine/reality without those obstructing one's vision. One could easily make the opposite case that Christianity is way more self-centered by refusing to admit the importance of transcending the self outside of where it's crypto-Neoplatonism.

So which is it anon? Is transcendence stupid and the proper mode of mysticism/worship only that which involves contemplating an Other, or is Christianity actually profoundly mystical and if this is the case why did widespread atheism first arise in the Christian west and how are these Christian mystic teachings any different from or better than say Sufism or Vedanta when these both affirm the existence of a divine God? You can't have your cake and eat it too by condemning eastern thought as pointless navel-gazing while ignoring that something equivalent to this is prevalent in Christian mysticism and by pretending that it all revolves around worshipping/contemplating an eternal other which is far from true.

>>11862398
kek

>>11857440
not really; it seems more apt to say it is a religious experience for western, secularized subjects. Freud, a staunch atheist, thought it was bullshit and never felt it. William James, who was much more sympathetic to religion, pitied himself that he could never have such a feeling.

>>11862432
Try to restate your edgy as hell anti-God case in clearer words and I might take a stab at it.

>>11862612
Good-ass reply, actually. Thanks. Maybe I'll reply to it more fully in a moment. I'm slowly enjoying a gluten-free snack right now.

>>11858368
>As opposed to Oriental mystics who get lost looking inwards (and who so often give the air of being not so much mystics as men obsessed with their own detachment from the vulgar, material world)
If Chesterton said this then he is a prime boomer. Oriental Mystics reject the notion of self-hood; they do not look "inwards" because there is no self. They live in the world because, despite its delusion, it is a reflection of emptiness. If you think they just meditate and think real hard about themselves all day then you have about as much understanding of it as a barely literate baptist in some flyover state.

>>11862687
Allright man. I'm just not a fan of the way Guenon and Schuon look in their portraits, okay? And I'm not a fan of the few Guenonians I have come across on the internet. Not here, elsewhere, this is my second day posting here.

Chesterton was much smarter than me, of course, and he actually didn't say anything of what I wrote within those parentheses. In fact, come to think of it, he did say that it makes no sense to compare Christianity with Buddhism, because while Christians worship God, one could almost say that Buddhists worship Nothing. (To grossly paraphrase, of course.)

>>11863195
lurk more before posting

>>11863962
Haha. Suck my dick.

>>11863976
"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

-Leviticus 20:13

>>11862677

I'm against Catholicism, so much so that I equate it to Atheism, not against God.

>>11856414
Dostoevsky is a good reference for this concept. He was epileptic and prone to seizures which would trigger intense mystical and religious experiences. It pops up in his writing often in startling moments.

For instance, in BK he wrote, "For all is like an ocean, all flows and connects; touch it in one place and it echoes at the other end of the world."

From a neurological perspective, I think it has to do with relaxation of the prefrontal cortex associated with the boundary between self and other. When this boundary is relaxed, for example during passionate love making, one feels fused to the world and far from isolated. One feels connected to a larger whole.

Drugs and other stimuli can disrupt the frontal self-world boundary regulative circuit and activate this sensation.

>>11860142
Nigger, I was an opiate addict that started off doing what you do. Everyone starts out like you, small amounts of oxy, no big deal. Only do it once a week. It doesn't take long until it's every other day and before you know it you get sick if you miss a day. Fuck opiates.

>>11860142
>willingly take opiates for recreation
Not even Dostoevsky could accurately describe how stupid you are.

>Freud, a staunch atheist, thought it was bullshit and never felt it.
Freud was, speaking in terms of spirituality and human nature, a cripple, and so are many of the 20th-century philosophers, especially the the /lit/'s darling post-structuralist frenchies and their followers. Analytic philosophers were probably even worse, but at least they didn't fake it.

bah,that is just a fancy way of naming the living force that moves everything. or rather,our impossibility to grasp it in consciousness.

that is something everyone feels at some point in life. anything you later make of it is just destined to dominate others, specially those who have not passed through it yet.

pure junk, experience it yourself and then name it any way you want. those descriptions only block your own path to find your own way of experiencing it.

Hėlène Cixous

>>11863994

If you it closely it says: sodomy only ok if homosex

>>11866248
yikes

>>11866155
>destined to dominate others
That's the last thing you want to do in this state of mind.

>>11867232
im not saying that is what you do when you are in it, but what you do when you are out of it and try to talk about it.