/lit/ - Literature

>>11845277
i'm still a little unclear as to whether girard is prescribing a form of radical pacifism or if he thinks some forms of violence are indeed legitimate? he seems a little conflicted over the stability provided by the impartial rule of law versus the fact in exists basically in continuity with the scapegoat mechanism

ive only read violence and the sacred so maybe hes more explicit on his positions in later books

>>11845277
Wrong Rene G. kiddo

>>11845277
Deleuze invalidate his theories

>>11845321
explique

>>11845298
sci-hub[dot]tw[slash]http://muse.jhu.edu/article/443637
>Recognition that wars rarely (almost never) accomplish the aim s that motivate them is not pacifism. Girard seems to gesture toward the latter without actually endorsing it, though, leaving readers confused about the precise significance of his two claims or their practical implications.
>On the other hand, many of his disciples on the Left will be off ended by his refusal to embrace pacifism[...]
He wasn't really clear on that himself, but he wasn't a pacifist, that's for sure.

>>11845321
>Because Freud is a Platonist, all the psychoanalytic heresies are platonic heresies. In Jung, the element of rivalry is totally expelled, and nothing is left except a Platonian mystic contemplation of the archetypes. In Melanie Klein, by contrast, there is nothing but conflict, but fundamentally this conflict has no real existence because it is fixed and given an almost otherworldly status by a notion of the first relationships with the mother. In Deleuze and Guattari, not the Oedipus complex itself but the text of psychoanalytic theory—Freud’s Oedipus text—multiplies rival triangles, as a result of the universal tendency to simulate that it incites.
>All the problems of Platonism return in psychoanalysis. As it is impossible to contain dynamic processes within a system of archetypes, Freud finds it necessary to create more and more essences, rather like structuralism, which takes more and more synchronic “cuts” because of its own incapacity to conceive of any genuinely diachronic mechanism. — G

Fun fact: Peter Thiel attended his classes and is a card carrying girardfag.

>>11845390
he's a retard. libertarianism isn't even compatible with girard because it assumes an autonomous individual.

>>11845277
aw yeah the scapeGOAT

get 'em rene get 'em

>>11845564
unless you realize that autonomous individuals tend to be less autonomous than they like to think when the chips are down

>>11845564
You seem to be accidentally equating political libertarianism with metaphysical libertarianism.

as long as there is murder and sacrifice on planet earth for psychopolitical gain girard remains looking crispy fresh. he gets BTFOd by the dance of shiva, but the dance of shiva BTFOs everyone.

imho the point isn't to try and refute him any more than it is to refute nietzsche (or antigone.) like a good philosophical hedgehog - the fox knows many things, the hedgehog one big thing - RG intuited something fundamental about the nature of human culture and the necessity of violence for state function and historical legitimacy. violence will happen between individuals as much as ignorance will. and sometimes a limited war of intervention will even be necessary. self defense is a good look. the martial arts are a good look. boxers hug each other after matches. you won't find girard ringside screaming Finish Him Off!!!! because he wasn't wired like that.

it might even be possible to distinguish malevolent, hysterical, or reciprocal violence from forms which are simply necessary for human survival in urban communities. i doubt shaolin monks or ng mui would have bothered him. the question isn't about becoming a hysteric who cannot handle the slightest sideways glance without reaching for a panic button, it's about founding murder, scapegoating and the role played by mythopoetic violence in legitimizing the state. and much else.

>>11845321
Tu peux expliquer ?

>>11845693
what?

>>11845712
no, I'm not. you seem to accidentally not understand how political libertarianism is based on the enlightenment myth of the divine autonomy of the individual.

>>11845774
he can't, he probably hasn't even read deleuze

>>11845990
neither agamemnon nor achilles are truly autonomous in the sense of their desires. and as such, they aren't really autonomous.

this isn't to argue zen > libertarianism, just that libertarianism ultimately gets tangled up in questions about aesthetics that it can't resolve easily.

>>11845990
>no, I'm not. you seem to accidentally not understand how political libertarianism is based on the enlightenment myth of the divine autonomy of the individual.
Doesn't have to be. You can argue for small government for all kinds of reasons.

>>11845321
other way around, as Girard has shown in To Double Business Bound

>>11845277
Take the meme pill.

Girard is dead, and we have killed him.

>>11845390
He's probably done more than anyone to popularize him.

>>11850573
Him and the Girard on here.

>>11851445
he just has such a basic message, don't make scapegoats. there's more to it but fifteen seconds will just show you how endemic this is to life today. blame and outrage, shock and trigger. and it leads to feud. aesthetics can't hide it either, inside the fancy tomb there's a body. the more you dress it up, the more you know there's something in there and it doesn't look so good.

now if the body in the tomb is The Immortal Emprah of Mankind and he's neither dead nor living, but directs the will of mankind through the astronomican b/c humanity is under siege by the chaos gods, okay, this is different i guess, and we have to defer to a different kind of anthropologist. but IRL this is probably not the case

for now

>>11851445
he just has such a basic message, don't make scapegoats. there's more to it but fifteen seconds will just show you how endemic this is to life today. blame and outrage, shock and trigger. and it leads to feud. aesthetics can't hide it either, inside the fancy tomb there's a body. the more you dress it up, the more you know there's something in there and it doesn't look so good.

now if the body in the tomb is The Immortal Emprah of Mankind and he's neither dead nor living, but directs the will of mankind through the astronomican b/c humanity is under siege by the chaos gods, okay, this is different i guess, and we have to defer to a different kind of anthropologist. but IRL this is probably not the case

for now