/lit/ - Literature

>>11810384
Based. Intertextuality is eating your own shit

>>11810387
grand synthesis, upvoted

>>11810384
Lol why is he clapping for blockbuster

>>11810532
BECAUSE HE KNOWS WHAT IT IS

>when you like the book
intertextuality
>when you don't
references

>>11810384
post the avengers one

>>11810721

>>11810384
>>11812118
This guy’s great. [/spoiler]Where’s his patreon?

>someone makes an allusion to Homer

>>11812159
>I make an allusion to my dick

HAHA WOAH BLOCKBUSTER UHHHHHHH NOSTALGIA MUCH? CLAP CLAP CLAP

post the one where his mouth is open the entire time

>>11810384
>mfw a post references Joyce or Pynchon

>>11810532
Because he gets that reference and thus, his instinct drives him to do so.

>>11812190
That would be absolutely hilarious.

Like you’re reading a book and someone just breaks the fourth wall simply to make an allusion to his own dick in some way.

>>11810384
I'm glad we've finally reached the stage where telling the truth has become acceptable again

>>11812204

>>11812325
simply epic

>>11812325
kek thanks

i dont get these webms

>>11812325
Super heroes are fucking gay.

>>11812325
YouTube vid?

Tbh Pynchon really underachieved and to an extent botched his career not being more litererarily referential and refusing to tackle existential issues, and instead writing about mundane boomer bullshit and being transgressive.

>>11810532
He's an En Pea Sea

>>11812341
They’re hilarious because the guy is the biggest fucking retard in the world, basically.

And it sucks dude, like, if you’re reading this, which I know you aren’t, this is for you: get a fucking life. And this is coming from 4chan. If your friends you have encourage you in this behavior, it’s only because they like a spectacle, same thing with YouTube subscribers or reddit or whatever. I’m sorry you got sucked in this vortex of retardation it probably started with the public schooling system. But it’s never too late to become a respectable adult

>>11812118
>>11812325
Depressing.
Wouldn't be nearly as good if he wasn't such a mutt either.

>>11812322
>That would be absolutely hilarious.
>Like you’re reading a book and someone just breaks the fourth wall simply to make an allusion to his own dick in some way

You might want to look up this dude Freud

>>11812345
He's pretty good for an American. Leave the literary stuff for the Europeans

>>11813075
America has an excellent literary history.
But since we're on the subject, wbat are some good contempory European pieces?

>>11810384
>I don't get it so it's soi

lol cope

>>11812345
okay you've obviously never read him

>>11812325
His mouth just gets bigger and bigger, absolute kek

>>11812325
jesus christ its even worse with sound
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwrmz2OQPZ8

you know i may be a piece of shit that has accomplished absolutely nothing in life but im really glad i didnt grow up so insulated as to be THIS invested in capeshit

>>11813111

>>11813788
Huh I always thought he'd be screaming while making those faces

>>11813788
Christ I wish I could love video games this much again

>>11813788
>screaming at trailer by billion dollar corporation “GIVE US MORE”
Capcucks will defend this level of spectacle

>>11813788
Superheroes are just a mythology for modern day pop-culture. The Avengers is like a shitty version of the Iliad.

You could probably fit some point about the supoerhero fad coming about because of America's need to be comforted after 9/11 and its perceived decline into it.

>>11810384
>>11812118
>>11812325
Is this guy a little touched in the head?

Also, one of my favourite things is looking at the rooms of Youtubers and his is something else.

>>11813869
thats a reasonable analysis lad. i wonder if i would be rolling my eyes as people cheered and pushed each other around when listening to homer recite a scene with athena

>>11812118
someone post the BLACKED one.

>not make overreacted reaction videos on youtube for easy money

Probably makes more than you at your wagecuck position

>>11814559
>wagecuck position
jokes on you, we're all comfy NEETs living the dream.

>>11814581
There are actually contributing members of society on here

>cmon guys this is 4chan were all losers... right?

I mean the name of the fucking site starts with the number of women someone on here is in a relationship at once with

>>11813869
>>11813923
The problem is, as >>11813869 pointed out, The Avengers is shit. Also, there's no soul to it. It's a cheap product that's made by a bunch of cynical businessmen who only care about money whereas Homer's epics are pure works of art. Homer didn't have a massive team of people working alongside him making sure The Iliad was as commercial as possible.

>>11813788
>likes and dislikes disabled
>he liked practically every fucking comment
>not a single comment mocks him even though this shit has been spammed on /tv/ for months
Kek, it looks like this guy isn't just putting on a show for easy money. He takes this shit seriously and can't handle being told to grow the fuck up.

>>11812325
i wish to be that happy for something

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeOMjCcsm1I

It physically hurts to watch this shit. This is religious level adoration. If Disney were to start a religion he would join it in a heartbeat and probably try to became a priest of it.

>>11810384
based dismantling of /lit/'s entire identity

>>11815210
You have a terrible understanding of the world around you. Homer adapted preexisting verbal epic poems that were refined over generations to be as crowdpleasing as possible.

>>11815259
My point still stands. Single-handedly refining epic poems into something that the masses can enjoy is obviously massively different from working with a team of cynical hacks to make a meaningless product because you and your teammates want more money.

>>11810384
who is this lounge-act nerd?

>>11815291
James' Youniverse

>>11812118
There should be a certain type of wall where people like him are lined up

>>11810606
yikes

>>11815323
ok pol

>>11812343
this

>>11812325
He looks like he fucks black guys.

does /pol/ actually think they’re any different than this guy

>>11815355
yes. lol

>>11812347
please tell me npc is filtered now

>>11813805
>>11815241
>>11815243
you're all not getting what's actually going on here. the reason this type of reaction video exists is not because he or anyone watching is actually feeling this emotional over a trailer but precisely because they don't. people are such wrecks at this point that even entertainment is only a source of anxiety (my steam backlog!) but they know they're SUPPOSED to be excited, so they turn to these people to provide them with an amazement pantomime that functions kind of like a sitcom laugh track - it no longer matters if you laugh, the show will laugh at itself anyway and free you from the anxiety of not getting the jokes and the need to pay attention. youtubers provide a similar "laugh track" to videogames so people don't have to go through the chore of playing that garbage themselves. and then there's this guy, producing an emotional "laugh track" for corporate advertising campaigns, so that people who don't want the products but WANT TO WANT them can have their prosthetic desire.

>>11815241
Nobody that attached to the external is truly happy. You should pity him because without his action figures, superhero movies, and video games he's miserable. He needs to consume these products in order to function which makes him no better than a heroin addict.

>>11815376
nobody's actually anxious about their backlog, derp.

>>11815376
real good post

>>11815472
of course they are. listen to a random five minutes of a video game podcast and you'll hear a 35 year old expressing angst and regret over only having played the first 3 of 300 hours of "the witcher 4: poorly paid polacks produce plenty"

>>11815519
That's not anxiety, just a yearning to play more games.

>>11815528
the feeling that you should be doing things but aren't IS anxiety. "what if there's something better on another channel?" is television anxiety, "my backlog" is video game anxiety.

>>11815550
not should, want.

>>11815563
if video game fandom was about "want" and not "should" then every game would not ship with achievements. i don't think you ever put any thought into how any of this works, psychologically.

>>11815590
what the fuck are you even talking about

>>11815607
research shows that extrinsic incentivization ruins people's motivation for activities they find inherently enjoyable but enhances motivation for activities that they wouldn't do otherwise. every modern videogame is a collection of chores with an elaborate extrinsic incetivization scheme (levels, achievements, public gamer profiles etc) attached to it. this makes video game playing an activity driven not by spontaneous desire but submission to artificially constructed demands. one therefore does not "want" to play, one feels one "should" play in order to maintain an authentic "gamer identity". hence the anxiety.

>>11815652
>very modern videogame is a collection of chores

the ones you play maybe, lol...

>>11815666
what on god's green earth made you think i play video games?

>>11815683
oh so you're just talking out your ass, got it :)

>>11815697
Good post >>11815376 btw, I think that you are right. There was a time i used to enjoy playing games but now I watch others play because I find it more enjoyable.

>>11815733
why did you quote me?

>>11815697
exactly! by not collecting achievements i'm failing to maintain an authentic gamer identity, so that my statements don't count to real gamers like yourself, even if they're true. that's why instead of addressing them you're instead talking about my laughable xbox gamer pointoscore of zero. thanks for the demonstration.

>>11815741
I didn't bring up anything related to your lack of gamerscore, you're the one who thinks all gamers slavishly devote themselves to it and thinks he's an authority on video game culture despite not even playing them, lol.

>>11815748
it is, lol, irrelevant, lol, whether, lol i currently, lol play them when i write about them accurately without needing to play them anymore. address what i wrote or fuck off.

>>11815760
stay assblasted i guess

>>11813882
I love seeing their collections of those arse ugly pop figures
Like I don't really care if people have like little statues of videogame or anime characters. But these things are cheap and look like shit. I don't know why they buy them.

Things that destroy western civilisation:
youtubers
capeshit
video games
"cosplay"
harry Potter
comic books ("graphic"novels"")
vaping
pet cats
D&D
excessive masturbation

>>11815814
The important thing is you feel superior to people

>>11814543
This pls I can't find it anywhere and youtube took it down

>>11815832
Why would owning a shitty collectible make you feel any better than anyone else? It’s embarrassing, and quite frankly juvenile

>>11815840
That's not what I said :")

>>11815769
you're the one that started pestering me because i insulted the honor of the true gamer tribe or whatever. some champion you turned out to be.

>>11815822
damn, Batman's gf looking thiccccc

>>11815858
I’m not that guy.

Sorry for butting in

>>11815858
You're the one who acts like he has any actual opinion on video games despite never playing them. You never even had an argument to begin with, bud.

>>11815832
I dunno man. I usually don't care about stuff like this, but those pop figures in particular are ugly and have no purpose other than maybe saying "I am aware of this character from contemporary popular culture". Like put your hot glued anime babe's up, put up your solid snakes with extremely well defined nipples, they are at least nice to look at.

>>11815877
so you're telling me you hate Funko Pop figures too? You think they're ugly and cheap? wooooow you don't say

>>11815891
I'm sorry is this some off board meme I'm not aware of? I don't usually see those figures talked about here, I guess they don't make them for ruggles or joyce

>>11815870
i don't "act like" i have an opinion, i explained myself half a thread ago and you still can't muster a single coherent sentence in response, fishing instead for reasons to dismiss my insufficiently authentic gamerness, because if i only played fallout 4 instead of stopping at 2 i surely would have been converted to the church of the cheevo, right?

>>11815918
Yeah, you explained your opinion on modern video games, but apparently you don't even play modern video games, soooooo…?

>>11815918
and nobody brought up achievements until you needed a strawman to deflect with, lmao.

>>11815929
sooooooo i obviously have seen enough of them to form an accurate impression or else you would have demolished my posts instead of avoiding them and instead jumping at the opportunity to dismiss me?

>>11815937
lmaoooooo I brought up achievements because I was asked how game fandom generates anxiety and the fact that modern game design utilizes a uniform structure of external incentives with interchangeable filler in-between is an essential basis of how game players relate to games, but it's not like you can expect trve gamers to discuss at least semi-articulately the activity they devote thousands of hours to lmaoooooooo if only there were cheevos for stringing together a legible thought you'd be owning me so hard right now lmaooooooo

>>11810532

Because WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY

>>11813090
Houllebecq

>>11810384
This guy is a paid shill for Disney right?

>>11816011
>I don't need to play them to know they're shit!

lol fuck off, pseud. You brought up achievements because you have no argument.

>>11815376

When Adorno meets Zizek, you get this post

>>11816075
you got lost. my point was that games cause anxiety in gamers. to know this i just need to look at how gamers relate to games, whether i play them myself is irrelevant. and they're not "shit", they are actually extremely well made. it's just that their purpose is to make you miserable.

>>11815355
>>11815365
>muh /pol/
lmao at you "nerds"

>>11815905
soooooooooooooooooooooooooo

>>11816118
That was your argument, but you didn't do anything to support it

>whether i play them myself is irrelevant
Not really

>>11816133
the thread did plenty.

>>11816151
how?

Wannabe Zizek is 100% right about gaming. It's very much driven by anxiety. "I need to get 100% completion," "I need to unlock this secret," "my backlog is really piling up," etc, etc. I used to play videos games and all of those thoughts went through my head. Granted, there's a similar anxiety with cinema and literature but that stuff has good storytelling and artistic merit. You can count on two hands the amount of video games that have good storytelling and/or artistic merit.

>>11816167
Who do we call "Wannabe Zizek" these days? Taleb?

>>11816183
I was talking about the anti-gaming anon that's in this thread.

>>11816366
I mean, I haven’t been in this thread now, but if you spend too much time playing video games instead of socializing/reading/going outside, you lose an aspect of what it means to exist and live in reality.

>>11815376
>>11815652
sounds right. that other guy just got angry because he plays dwarf fortress or some shit

>>11815822
as nice as it is to be able to blame the collapse on retarded shit you (and I) don't like, these are just symptoms

>>11816153
okay, i was being flippant, so let me write something more substantial. firstly, no, i don't need to be currently putting hours into videogames to know gamers are anxious, i just need to look at how gamers behave. secondly i have already supported my point by noting the following:

1. game media are saturated with gamer unhappiness including anxiety over not getting to finish all the games
2. an entire profitable profession of game youtuber has arisen and their job is to enjoy games so you don't have to
3. the hegemonic model of game design that practically all notable releases subscribe to subordinates all game activity to an elaborate structure of extrinsically motivated chores, so that you are not as much "playing" as fulfilling a set of arbitrary demands. your steam library is simply another level of this structure, taunting you with all the "fun" you are failing to have. this is a machine for making you miserable. is it any wonder they're selling you dlc that lets you play less?

nobody has seriously attempted to address any of this. instead i'm being told i lost my right to make basic observations when i bailed out of this mess, before it got this bad. anyway it's the middle of the night here so i'm fucking off for now.

>>11816482
> i don't need to be currently putting hours into videogames to know gamers are anxious, i just need to look at how gamers behave.
ah armchair psychologist, nice. As to your points:

1. Jews control the media, not gamers
2. Nobody watches youtube lets plays in exchange for playing the game
3.
>the hegemonic model of game design that practically all notable releases subscribe to subordinates all game activity to an elaborate structure of extrinsically motivated chores

prove it.

:)

>>11816380
>socializing/reading/going outside
hello NPC

>/lit/ humour thread
>99% of the jokes are "dude I get that reference"

>>11816807
lit is the least funny board, this is well known, because everything is super srs business, and when people 'joke' it just sounds bitter and angry

obviously there are exceptions

>>11815760
Holy shit the level of asshurt in a single comment.

>>11816482
>1. game media are saturated with gamer unhappiness including anxiety over not getting to finish all the games
No it isn't.
>2. an entire profitable profession of game youtuber has arisen and their job is to enjoy games so you don't have to
They are parasocial relationships and the youtuber is a surrogate friend, the actual activity they're doing is irrelevant, that's why you see the exact same kind of content coming from youtube personalities who don't play games. Even pewdiepie now spends most of his time looking at memes, others read fanmail and shit like that.
>3.
Lets look at call of duty for example, you go into a match and run around shooting people, that is the entire game and its what the player comes for.

Pretty cringey that you think you can talk as an expert on something you have no experience with.

>>11812345
shut the fuck up retard

>>11815822
>not capitalism
>not human greed
>not the fact we're literally going to make the earth uninhabitable
>nah, it's actually a bunch of harmless nerds who are ruining civilisation!

>>11813111
>>11813796

>>11817541
None of those things are the problem, they are symptoms. The current existential crisis in the west exists because our leaders are a middle eastern tribe of sociopathic semites. That is the crux here.

>>11815376

>>11817566
No, it's because of greed and short-term profit addiction.

>>11817616
No, but even accepting your premise, those things have been incentivized by the alien jewish elite because they harm white society. When there was a white elite in charge there were far more checks on unethical behavior, cultural degeneracy, and destructive anti-national economic policies. Jews, however, don't care. It always boils down to people.

>>11815241
If it makes you feel better, he's pretending.

>>11817628
I would continue responding to you, but unfortunately I realise there's nothing I could say that would break you out of your delusion.
Even though you are a racist, I hope you have a nice day.

>>11817690
>you are a racist
More ironic than your self-assurance that this word means anything to begin with, is your self-assurance that reality isn't.

>>11815822
>do five of these
>have a job
Try again sweetie

>>11816494
1. that's not what i mean by "media"
2. actually, lots of people do. and if they watch them in addition to having played the game itself then the obvious conclusion is that something with their own experience is missing so that they need to fill the void with somebody else's overacted enjoyment
3. see other guy

>>11816902
1. game communities are not blazing furnaces of unhappiness? i must have been looking at the wrong internet.
2. you're defeating your own point because if gamers need the service of surrogate friendship then the fact that this service so consistently takes the form of ostentatiously enjoying video games implies that they are also in need of surrogate enjoyment.
3. this is a funny one because "you just shoot people for fun" is a description of quake, not call of duty. what i'm talking about is what is left when you subtract quake from call of duty.

so you guys are as useless as expected but no worries, i slept on it and i have thoughts. more in a bit.

>>11817690
y
i
k
e
s

>>11817966
>tfw ex-gamer reading this post

>>11817966
Thank you based anti-gamer anon for blowing the fuck out of all these gamer nerds. Jah bless.

>>11812159
He's Pynchon's role model

>implying zizek doesn't love video games

>>11818257
>Gothic
He's got good taste at least.

>>11818262
He's referring to Morrowind not Gothic

so what happens when you play a video game? probably you click on a picture of a man to make him fall down. then elaborate tracking code gives your actions meaning through extrinsic motivational systems. bars fill up a little, promising future rewards (which are of course just symbolic as their benefit will be nullified by some system of balance), checks are run constantly to see if it's time for you to receive a badge, medal, trading card or loot box. this is all exposed to an integrated social network that makes your gamer identity known to your gamer friends. of course you'll get people who claim none of this matters to them, but you should treat them the same as the guy who says "ads don't work on him" even as he squeezes a whole macbook pro sideways up his ass. companies spend a fortune on ads because ads work and game developers have embraced the cheevo school of game design to the point where platform holders will legally require its presence because gamers crave that shit and respond to it extremely well.

now here's the point that people will balk at: that motivational superstructure is what VIDEO GAMES really are, the rest is purely vestigial. the phenomenon known as VIDEO GAMES is a number of entangled social networks designed to suck you dry through the ruthless use of constantly improving tools of emotional manipulation like virtual success or manufactured anxiety. of course a gamer will insist games are really about something else: his well-honed "skills", his tearful response to a cutscene, his polygonal waifu - but these things are just filler, they exist to occupy the space between the achievement and the loot box, they are purely decorative. what you think of as "video games" is to actual VIDEO GAMES what an illustration on a playing card is to a casino, and you are a dimwit sat at a blackjack table not even aware of your money disappearing because you've fallen in love with a drawing of the queen of hearts.

it's not pleasant, but it's what the game industry is. gaben, gaben, where's my half life 3? it's nowhere because that guy figured this shit out before anyone else and he's not going to waste money on an absurdly expensive piece of storefront decoration when he can take his cut from people selling jpgs back and forth. and as far as filler goes the expensive cgi hullabaloo is obviously an economically suboptimal solution and will be phased out sooner or later. mobile games have already shown the same space can be filled with dried-up dog turds with great success, and that doesn't even take into account the real revolutionary shit like how star citizen proved that you can just sell the empty space itself. in the future, the ghost of quake will be excised from call of duty, leaving only the medals. the vestigial organs will shrivel up and die as the gamer will directly purchase parcels of official gamer excitement, finally experiencing unmediated immersion into PURE VIDEO GAMES.

>>11818257
nothing says hardcore gamer like calling them "dvd games", quoting an intro cinematic and attributing it to the wrong game.

>>11818320
He's not attributing it to the wrong game. He's not referring to Gothic, he means 'that Gothic style game'

>>11818266
That's even better.

>>11815289
>Single-handedly refining epic poems into something that the masses can enjoy is obviously massively different from working with a team of cynical hacks to make a meaningless product because you and your teammates want more money.
The only difference being that in the second case some people make a lot of money off of it. Both epics and superhero movies are for children.

>>11815210
>Homer didn't have a massive team of people working alongside him making sure The Iliad was as commercial as possible.

Homer was likely not an individual man, but an attributed name for a collective of people over generations that built and refined the epic poems. They were not written, but evolved through the oral tradition and passed on from person to person. Way more commercial than any Marvel film.

This is Classics 101. Go back to school

>>11817966
>that's not what i mean by "media"
so what did you mean?

> actually, lots of people do.
Yeah, stupid people

>see other guy
Nah, shooting people for fun is a good description of CoD too

>>11813090
America has an okay literary tradition. There has never been an American who has written something of the level of Joyce's works, or Goethe's etc. For the modern day it is a matter of opinion. Handke imo is better than Pynchon, so is Laszlo.

>>11817966
>>11816482
I get more anxiety/unhappiness about my inability to read the sheer amount of books I do than I do with playing games. I haven't actually completed a games story despite playing many in years and it doesn't phase me.

>>11817966
>game communities are not blazing furnaces of unhappiness
Not especially.
>you're defeating your own point because if gamers need the service of surrogate friendship then the fact that this service so consistently takes the form of ostentatiously enjoying video games implies that they are also in need of surrogate enjoyment.
No it doesn't, it's just an easy way to create content because games tend to be long and your experience with them tends to be more unique.
>"you just shoot people for fun" is a description of quake, not call of duty
There is literally nothing else in the game unless you're extremely invested in the campaign which is made like an action movie.

Just walk away buddy.

>>11818543
>Just walk away buddy.
yeah, i see your point. i'd get a better conversation screaming into a bucket. this place got really depressing over the last few years.

>>11818575
Looks like Dunning Kruger kid loses another argument.

>>11818577
yup. you're the winner.

>>11818543
>There is literally nothing else in the game

>weapon unlocks
>achievements
>perstige system
>emblems
>titles
>kill 20 dudes to get the homo skin
>cosmetics


They've been slowly perfecting the cod franchise into the ideal skinner box. Nearly all games are like this these days. Including the "critically acclaimed" recent releases like nier automata. anti-gamer anon is right

>>11818630
They're all earned by shooting faggots.

>>11818632
Yeah but your not shooting faggots purely for the pleasure of shooting faggots anymore.

>>11818648
Yea you are, you just get a little extra feeling of achievement every now and then.
>3. the hegemonic model of game design that practically all notable releases subscribe to subordinates all game activity to an elaborate structure of extrinsically motivated chores, so that you are not as much "playing" as fulfilling a set of arbitrary demands. your steam library is simply another level of this structure, taunting you with all the "fun" you are failing to have. this is a machine for making you miserable. is it any wonder they're selling you dlc that lets you play less?
That's not the case he's trying to make, he's acting as all games are free to play or mobile games that waste your time to incentivize you to spend money.
He's taken a few people on /v/ talking about their backlog and extrapolated it into some deep and prolific anxiety.

>>11818603
again, you don't even play video games, what do you know?

>>11818663
>A meta-analysis of 128 studies examined the effects of extrinsic rewards on intrinsic motivation. As predicted, engagement-contingent, completion-contingent, and performance-contingent rewards significantly undermined free-choice intrinsic motivation (d = -0.40, -0.36, and -0.28, respectively), as did all rewards, all tangible rewards, and all expected rewards. Engagement-contingent and completion-contingent rewards also significantly undermined self-reported interest (d = -0.15, and -0.17), as did all tangible rewards and all expected rewards.

extrinsic reward scheduling ruins spontaneous interest. the reward layer of call of duty is not an enhancement but a replacement for an intrinsic motivation to play. simultaneously the design of the entire game has to be made subordinate to the reward layer, because

>it is clear that rewards do not undermine people's intrinsic motivation
for dull tasks because there is little or no intrinsic motivation to be undermined.

in other words while people might have played quake because they liked to shoot people in it, call of duty is only played for the fake rewards, and has in fact been designed intentionally to be boring because only boring tasks work well with extrinsic reward scheduling, which is a compulsory feature of every game released on a major platform. producing purposefully dull collections of chores with aggressive incentivization schemes has been the foundation of game design for a very long time now.

the quotes are from deci, koestner, ryan 1999

>>11818759
nothing, obviously. you are the winner. you can go now.

>>11818767
Then stop playing games that heavily rely on extrinsic rewards, it's not hard dude. Also video games have always had engagement, completion and performance contingent rewards.

>>11818767
>call of duty is only played for the fake rewards
that's not even what the stu

>>11818767
>call of duty is only played for the fake rewards
Thats not what the study is saying, more that people may feel compelled to play even after they're bored to keep filling bars, not that there's no fun to be had in shooting dopes as well, also CoD MP has always been shit anyway

>>11818788
>Thats not what the study is saying, more that people may feel compelled to play even after they're bored to keep filling bars
no, you have misunderstood the study. the point of the study is that the very introduction of external rewards ruins spontaneous interest unless there wasn't any interest there in the first place. since attaching a reward schedule to a chore is a more reliable tactic that trying to produce genuine interest, it has become the guiding principle of game design.

>>11818777
>Then stop playing games
way ahead of you
>Also video games have always had... rewards.
of course, they're just better at it now. this just happens to be bad news for the people who play them.

>>11818767
>reward contingent on meeting an absolute performance standard either increased or did not affect intrinsic motivation
>In sum, reward for meeting vague performance standards had no effect on self-reported interest, whereas re-ward for meeting explicit performance standards increased self-reported interest.

>Meta-analyses indicated that rewards increase perceived self-determination and that rewards' effects on
intrinsic motivation depend on the performance requirement. Reward for meeting vague performance
standards reduced the subsequent choice to carry out the task and did not affect self-reported interest.
Reward for meeting absolute performance standards did not affect free choice but increased self-reported
interest. Reward for exceeding others increased both free choice and self-reported interest. Applied
studies commonly found positive or null relationships between reward and intrinsic motivation. The
findings suggest that reward procedures requiring ill-defined or minimal performance convey task
triviality, thereby decreasing intrinsic motivation. Reward procedures requiring specific high task
performance convey a task's personal or social significance, increasing intrinsic motivation.

>>11818859
Ruins how?

>>11818285
underrated

>>11818861
filling bars does not "require specific high task performance". on the contrary, filling bars "conveys triviality" since an obviously unimpressive action can trigger fanfare just because you happened to pass an arbitrary threshold. achievements popping up randomly because you killed your 1000th dude are "procedures requiring ill-defined or minimal performance" as well. i'm sure there's some specific achievements that would fit their definition, like that hl2ep2 gnome thing or whatever, but that's a tiny minority of all the rewards that games give out.

it would also be useful to know what you're even trying to argue for, because what the study calls "intrinsic" motivation includes things like "social significance" whereas in the thread we've been talking about whether call of duty is played for the "pure pleasure of shooting" and playing to impress your friends would surely fall outside of that. if you're motivated to play by the "social significance" of an in-game reward then surely the failure to meet this social standard would be a source of anxiety, which was my original point so many wasted posts ago.

>>11818885
i don't know "how", i'm not a brain scientist. the point is that it's an observable effect that's been widely discussed in game design circles and it's fundamental to how games are designed today.

>>11812345
I agree, he’s an amazing writer with a prodigious capacity for historical research and creating compelling and complex historical narratives, but something of American surrealistic TV-humor still hangs around his best works. Eh, I guess you can’t have all your geniuses fit to your own norms, though.

>>11819003
>filling bars does not "require specific high task performance
That really really depends, usually ribbons pop up for things like "you beat that other guy" "you got lots of kills without dying" kill streak power ups are specifically designed to reward performance.
That's not vague, that's explicit.
>it would also be useful to know what you're even trying to argue for, because what the study calls "intrinsic" motivation includes things like "social significance" whereas in the thread we've been talking about whether call of duty is played for the "pure pleasure of shooting" and playing to impress your friends would surely fall outside of that. if you're motivated to play by the "social significance" of an in-game reward then surely the failure to meet this social standard would be a source of anxiety, which was my original point so many wasted posts ago.
Intrinsic motivation includes things like social significance therefore you think it makes sense to say:
>one therefore does not "want" to play, one feels one "should" play in order to maintain an authentic "gamer identity".
Even though you argued that extrinsic motivation destroys intrinsic motivation, you now want to go back to saying that an element of intrinsic motivation is the primary driver in games.

Nothing in your study supports the statement made here >>11815652 you see small affects and use them to make all encompassing conclusions.
>one therefore does not "want" to play, one feels one "should" play in order to maintain an authentic "gamer identity"
This is totally unsupported.

>>11819014
>>11812345
>I like Pynchon but wish that he didn't have his own voice

Wow

>>11818285

saved

>>11810606
oof

>>11818285
It sounds good but its actually pure retardation-core

>>11819009
The point is you have no clear description of what exactly is happening, you come across as overreacting, like how the NPC meme started with a misreading of another study

I am "friends" with a YouTuber of this ilk. Believe me they are ruined well before any well-wisher can intervene. All you can do is humor them and be compassionate, because there is quite literally no hope.

>>11815241
Me too anon, me too

>>11813848

>>11813788

>>11813788
>>11812325
https://youtu.be/LeqgOaI3oQI?t=4m43s

>>11819009
Hi blessed anon. I just want to say that what've you said has been true, and I agree with you. I can't really understand why you spent the time arguing with the gamers in this thread, who are incompetent and blind. I can't really blame them for their perspective and denial either of what've you said, since as you've said, it's their gamer identity. I used to be a gamer, and I've spent thousands of hours playing so many games, but the ones I have spent the most time playing was dota 2, LoL, and especially rogue likes; all of which, the fun died out when the discovery ended, and the game became a loop for me to become the best or to complete the game. Mobas trapped me for hours on trying to get a better rank; and, rogue likes just made me want to beat the game for that feeling of achievement. I am glad that I've stopped playing games, and it was definitely a difficult samsara to break from. I wish someone would have told me what've you said earlier in my life.
I hope someone will be inspired to break their habit through your knowledgable words that you've texted today. Saved, and thank you.

>>11821652
Yeah, obviously you know more about how I interact with vidya despite not even engaging in them yourself, the memes on here are more than enough :)

You know there are more genes out there aside from mobas and roguelikes

>>11818885
burnout

>>11812325
What drives a person to become like this?

>>11815376
Very well done.

>>11815376
based

>>11815652
>>11815376
>mfw

>>11810532
GOTTA CLAP FOR THAT

>>11821947
capitalist hack/ an incentive to use an unoriginal strategy/idea of monetization.

>>11812322
>write science textbook
>include optional extra difficulty practice problems that no one will ever do
>make solution manual very hard to obtain, like print only about 100 copies or so
>#Sup3b. [insert geophysical problem with very large real number solution]. Suggest possible sources for such phenomena
>#Ans3b. myphallus