/lit/ - Literature

Read How to Read and Why, then go from there

>>11770053
Go back and do something besides STEM

>>11770072
>Read How to Read
uh oh

>>11770053
I DONT UNDERSTAND ART

ITS VERY COMPLICATED, I CANNOT FIGURE OUT WHAT MAKES IT GOOD OR THE SUBJECTIVE OBJECTIVE PART
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>how do I self-teach reading
you answered your own question
there's no definitive starting point, just start somewhere. there's plenty of great works out.

>>11770053
>philosophy major
>go to class today
>it's "philosophy of self"
>oh great
>hate philosophy at this point but just want to graduate
>guy with septum piercing wearing shirt that says black and educated
>other guy with "knowledge" tattooed on his forearm
>literal tranny with literal brain trauma who claims she(?) can't remember most of her life (do I have a self etc...)
>bunch of cute girls who are annoying as hell and never don't participate
>self-admitted conspiracy theorist who affects an air of profound rationality
>philosophy club leader with black painted nails who told everyone that he wanted to be a professional writer/storyteller after college whose favorite piece of art is pulp fiction
>halfway through professor randomly starts talking about identity politics because he thinks it will be pertinent to this course
>starts talking about Trump
>we spend about an hour trying to figure out how Trump has so successfully manipulated people using identity politics
>me, making faces to myself, trying to figure out why I shouldn't kill myself, adding nothing to the conversation, wondering if there is any point in trying to say absolutely anything

Stick to STEM

Homer

By starting with the greeks my little bitch

>>11770053
Enjoy having a job and being employable. Oh boy those recruiters are going to email you every day with job offers it’ll be terrible.

>>11770053
I grew up reading a lot, with some classics, but also a ton of pulp shit and Star Wars books and whatever. Around six months into my first year of university for CompSci, I realised I was spending all of my time on the computer and barely reading. I decided to go to a local bookshop and buy five books and read them before the year was over. Every day, unless I was absolutely tired, I would make sure I read for fifteen minutes, up to half an hour usually. In doing this, I managed to read (and be able to discuss) many many more books, both fiction and non-fiction, than all but my most dedicated humanities-student friends. It is a not a big trick, but like all these 4chan self improvement memes, the real trick is just doing it. Knowing that it will work if you do it is a 'lifehack', but there is no hack to make it easier to do. Just do it, get into the habit, and enjoy it.

>>11770403
Yeah dude hate to break it to you but no one gets emails from recruiters.

>>11770160
Jesus Christ

>>11770053
the very fact that you don't know how to know proves you've failed before you started

>>11770119
fucking same lad, I told my creative writing professor
>Why don't they just say what they're feeling
I also inadvertently called her profession shit (felt really bad after realizing). She's great though and she really believes in the idea's I am trying to propagate, I'm just shit at the actual wordplay part.

>>11770570
G O O D P O S T
O O D P O S T
O D P O S T
D P O S T
P O S T
O S T
S T
T

>>11770403
This is the stupidest fucking thing I’ve ever read

>>11770119
wait are you memeing or are you serious?

>>11770699
I cannot tell if art is subjective or objective anon.
I also cannot tell what the purpose of art it


In literature I also don't understand if it's better to write with words you would commonly use or to to imitate older literature.

>>11770053
>one shot at uni
uni is there to learn something you might be able to use to earn money not for pretentious garbage that has no value to society
>inb4 literature has no value
literature has value, studying it in uni has no value
>how can I self-teach myself literature?
read you dunce

>>11770119
>I DONT UNDERSTAND ART
noone does
>ITS VERY COMPLICATED
no it's just random people shouting out their opinions from which the most popular gets taken as mainstream

>>11770737
>noone does
thanks anon, your post made me feel better.

Lately I've felt like I've been viewing everything to loosely and being to open minded but your response seems to make the most sense out of everything I've heard.

>>11770737
>uni is there to learn something you might be able to use to earn money
> not for pretentious garbage that has no value to society
So which is it, anon? Do you go to uni to learn how to make money or do you go there to learn how to do something valuable to society? These can be very very contradictory.

The absolute state of fucking mutts.

>>11770053
Gravity's Rainbow

>>11770730
A. you need to look up what objective and subjective mean
B. art's purpose is just to make something. You think after hunting, gathering, farming and fucking homosapiens just sat around with their thumb up their ass? no, they made pottery, songs, textiles and more. The tradition of "doing anything besides sitting around doing fuck all" has existed in every civilization.
Also it depends on what your writing honestly the type of language you use to write

>>11770737
>uni is there to learn something you might be able to use to earn money

No, that's vocational school. Uni can be used for that, but that's not what it's for...

>>11770746
>A. you need to look up what objective and subjective mean
No, objective means goal. As in there is a defined goal of art to accomplish.
Subjective means goal dependent on the individual perception.
I'm asking if whether or not art can be objectively good or bad anon.
>B. art's purpose is just to make something. You think after hunting, gathering, farming and fucking homosapiens just sat around with their thumb up their ass? no, they made pottery, songs, textiles and more. The tradition of "doing anything besides sitting around doing fuck all" has existed in every civilization.
I don't agree with this at all anon, there is a reason we don't view certain trades as artistic.
Some art has a reason behind it, like Atlas Shrugged. That wasn't out of boredom that was out of trying to push a political message.
>Also it depends on what your writing honestly the type of language you use to write
Anon none of this answered the questions

>>11770750
*Snap*

>>11770737
retarded post. uni is not a trade school.

>>11770160
Sounds interesting desu. STEM is so sterile, I want to kys everyday

>>11770790
Anon this helped me think of a career path but I'm not far along at all so take it with a grain of salt.

Think about the negatives of either career path or job, whatever negatives you don't mind might be the better option.
I heard the quote recently of
>You have to trade your youth for something
So with that in mind, take into the consideration the drawbacks of other trades and than choose.

I believe in you anon, don't sell yourself short goal wise either.

>>11770744
>Do you go to uni to learn how to make money or do you go there to learn how to do something valuable to society?
being a productive member of society means you do something valuable.
let me guess you are also a communist who believes wealth is evil?
>>11770750
>Uni can be used for that, but that's not what it's for...
i guess it's not the "main" reason for the existence of an university, but as a part of society you end up a parasite if you can't get a job and if you use your "only" chance at it for something that doesn't make you a worthwhile citizen you are missing the point of uni.
The point of university is to make your worthless ass useful studying literature doesn't do that for you and just because it's offered does in no way mean it somehow makes it worthwhile
>>11770765
>you can gain access to higher level jobs via vocational and trade schools
i want to see you enter a research position without university education

>>11770790
if you like talking about ideas with other people, then it might not be a terrible choice. it turns out that I just kind of like to read philosophy for my own pleasure, at my own pace, and with my own choices.

>>11770765
>uni is not a trade school
It will be within the next 100 years. Before it happens though, there's going to be a huge financial crisis from student loans.

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/social-sciences-and-humanities-faculties-close-japan-after-ministerial-intervention

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/u-of-t-plans-to-shut-down-centre-for-comparative-literature/article1215695/

>>11770818

>>11770851
>buhu mami someone dislikes communism that makes him surely a fascist trump supporter

>>11770160
>favorite piece of art is pulp fiction

Is that the genre or film?

>>11770053
Read books

>>11770730
you could try reading aesthetic philosophy in order to try and see how other people have drawn the lines in the past, maybe read Art As Experience

>>11770053
Are you asking how to read? Seems like STEM was the right choice for you.

>>11770160
kek

>>11770053
lmao just read books nigga

>>11770449
>>11770624
master class cope

>>11770762
Are you actually retarded

>tfw double majoring in computer engineering and English
Feels pretty good

>>11771202
Anon, please prove me wrong
I hope I am, it would make things quite a bit easier.
Also are you the anon I'm responding too?

>>11771249
>A.
For the objective and subjective part
>Objective - (of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
>Subjective - based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
Words can have different meanings, you're thinking of the noun "objective."
The quality of art isn't objective. A work of art can be generally agreed to be a masterpiece by generations of experts in the subject and become part of an artistic canon, but every person is going to have a different response to the same work of art. This makes art subjective, because everyone interprets art differently based on their views and experiences.
>B.
Art at least started out because humanity got to the point where we weren't constantly struggling to find food or a place to sleep, so we had free time. Because humans had time where we didn't have to do anything, instead of doing nothing, we started creating things just for the sake of it, not out of some practical need for survival. As society developed it became more complex, and so did art. People began making art that they thought was meaningful. Of course some people would create art to promote their beliefs, like in Atlas Shrugged, because art is reflective of the ideas of the creator. But ultimately all of this is the result of what is essentially boredom. All art is practically useless, it's not essential to live. If artists had to constantly fight to survive they wouldn't be making art. The only inherent goal of art is to create for creation's sake, any deeper meaning the creator places on their art depends entirely on that individual.
The reason why some trades aren't considered artistic is because they're creating something for a practical purpose.
C.
Writing style is just another tool an author can use to convey their ideas and create a certain feeling in their work. It really depends entirely on context what writing style an author chooses. The stream-of-consciousness style of Ulysses, with all of it's made up words and fragments of sentences, perfectly fits the subject and is what makes it great. Ulysses wouldn't work with a more traditional form of writing that focuses mainly on the events of the story because nothing actually happens in the book, but its style really creates the feeling that you're hearing the thoughts of these characters.

>>11770851
>ugly therefore incorrect

>>11771356
A and C seem right anon, B I'm not sure of.
Either way thanks very much. I feel like a brainlet for the definition part.
Were you the GTA poster?
>>11770919
Thanks anon I'll look into it.

>>11770053
You'd know how to teach yourself more STEMs, right? Do that. Pilfer curricula from existing programs. See what resources people like. Iterate with the material.

Don't forget that the purpose of working on the theory is to eventually do something.

>>11771441
Also, I should have said, don't listen to >>11771356. Some people don't think art is objective -- but these people necessarily can't teach you anything about how to make art. What good is a theory like that?

Now, of course, that a theory be helpful and convenient does not suggest that it is correct. Take, though, a couple of axioms:

>Some things are better than others
Shakespeare can be taken to be pretty good and the average grade student's creative writing can be taken to be pretty bad. This is not much of a leap, but implies some objectivity to ordering.

>Some interpretations are wrong.
I can tell you that I thought Huck Finn was a masterwork psychological thriller and allegory about WWII, and we should be able to agree that I'm flat out wrong.

These two axioms are the foundation for a helpful critical theory. This is the basis for the New Criticism.

>>11771475
So you believe you think art is objective anon?
Follow up on that, what do you think the purpose of art is?

>>11770053
Just start reading books. A good spot for beginners is "Finnegan's Wake" by James Joyce for fiction and "How to Clean Your Room" by Jordan Peterson for non-fiction.

>>11770449
Speak for yourself

>>11771496
I wouldn't say I think art is objective as much as that I choose to define it to be so. That I think that's the best definition, of course, is subjective, and it does have its flaws.

I don't personally ascribe a purpose to art, though, I think it is merely to be experienced. I do have a criterion for good art, though, if you want to know my personal test: sensitivity to change.

What I mean is that you cannot change a single word in a very well constructed passage without damaging the whole -- this relies on some notion of "damage," so if you want more rigor consider instead that the alteration changes the experience, objectively. Changing a word or common plot device in a common spy novel, however, more or less leaves an identical spy novel in its place.

So I think of good art as obtaining a maximum of some function on the domain of works in the medium. This is only a necessary condition, as it is also satisfied by works which are remarkably and unusually unpleasant; but I'm not sure it's for me to say that those are not artistic.

>>11771558
you are so funny!!

>>11770851
Absolute unit

>tfw I wasted my one shot becoming an accountant
>tfw it's more or less just a trade that people learn in universities for some reason
>tfw I don't even feel educated in the slightest

>>11770053
I'm sorry, you really can't (at least, not nearly with the efficiency of someone studying it properly). But don't despair, most of /lit/ is clueless anyway, and if you were actually learned in literature/philosophy, you would realize how terribly uneducated this place truly is. And besides, at least you're employable.

>>11770160
>black and educated
Isn't this just promoting the idea that he's the exception? Seems a bit stupid to me.

>>11770851
in awe

>>11770449
My mate got his job through one. I got headhunted for a job before I'd even graduated university by one too

>>11770765
They effectively are at this point. Mine certainly is. Theology is the only course you can take there that isn't built specifically to train you for a certain job.

>>11770053
Just read some of the simpler to understand books. Don't get put off if it's high school reading list stuff too. Take notes as you read on themes, motifs or whatever or anything that jumps out at you about how it's written. Once you're finished, look over your notes and try to determine what the intent of the book was and how that was achieved. It's a skill and like all skills you can improve by training.

>>11770160
>>hate philosophy at this point but just want to graduate
based
ikft

>>11772487
Yeah I studied accounting too. It's such a fucking meme. It's not even a proper trade, it's just learning how to follow a set of arbitrary rules relating to the presentation of numbers.
At least the pay is decent and you do the have to work too many hours.

>>11770053
Does anyone studying literature even read the books? I'm pretty sure they just read the cliff notes, and use the time to party.

>>11770160
>bunch of cute girls who are annoying as hell and never don't participate
Preach anon, I had the same shit in all my humanities classes. Their confidence is so high and they believe they have so much substance, usually falsely. I think it has something to do with usually getting what they want.

>>11770831
This unironically makes me sad

>>11772487
Same. No idea why we every moved away from the apprenticeship programs. Literally no reason accounting needs to be a university degree other than needing to set arbitrary barriers to entry. Also, this job is soul sucking and I think about suicide daily.

>>11772658
>tfw all the pretty girls in my philo classes are either super shy or super chill

Usually it's some know-it-all dude that dominates the conversation, the girls kinda just sit quietly and take notes

>>11770818

why do people like you come to /lit/?

>>11770053

Here's easy mode:

Get MH Abram's glossary of literary terms.
Read it cover to cover.

Whatever inside catches your eye, make a note and read the referenced text.

You now have a rough map of the kind of thinking, /lit/ format, period, etc that you like.

Now make a little igloo of books in that section of your library, and read everything in that category that's canonical. ProjectGutenberg is the /lit/ version of #youtubefamous.

No shame in wikiing to get the normie /lit/-lite version of anything; it helps you direct your investment of time.

Now get on it.

=

>>11773025
Because it's a cesspool of pretentious assholes who manage to bring up an interesting thread every once in a while.
And because I'm awfully naive and i hope to see this board change for the better.

>>11773256
And by chance for the better you think that means turning it into another /pol/? Fuck off retard

Just stop being such a fucking ho, brah

>>11770053
>prepared for sciences all my life
>was going for STEM (math) but last minute figured it wasn't my thing
>went for Law instead
>now I'm about to specialize in Tax Law (master's degree)
>old STEM friends consider me a glorified accountant and tell me I should've stuck with math
>new Law friends consider me an autistic math nerd and tell me I should switch to Labour or Penal Law
>I just want stable employment at this point

How badly am I fucking up?

>>11773288
>turning it into another /pol/?
What? Why would i want it to be another pol?
I just want a place where people talk about literature without being complete and utter pretentious scum.
But i guess there's no point in trying to appeal to your intelligence considering you are part of the problem

>>11773321
How old are you?