/lit/ - Literature

Harry Frankfurt, Wittgenstein, Kripke, Tarski, Alasdair MacIntyre, Althusser, de Beauvoir, Heidegger, Deleuze, Quine, Max Black, Nagel, Adorno, and Nelson Goodman

So, yeah. For me, philosophy didn't end in high school.

>>11766418
spengler

>>11766418
Paul Goodman

Zizek, D.T. Suzuki, Dennis Hirota, Alain Badiou, Francis North Whitehead, Emmanuel Levinas, Masao Abe, the list goes on.

>>11766418
Besides his greatest follower, my lord, Mr Patterson, I think Nietzsche was the best mind of the last 100 years :)

>>11766418
Nietzche killed the philosophers of technicality and pure-reason. I don't think there are any good post-nietzche philosophers---nowadays I unironically prefer social critics, cultural anthropologists, chaos magicians, fillmmakers (not contemporary) and psychoanalysts. the shift away from text-based mediums towards visual formats, accompanied with a declining attention-span, also plays a role in this.

maybe try to read "We are All Cannibals!" by Claude Levi Strauss.

Essentially nietzche gave birth to existentialist philosophy (in it's modern appearance, at least)---so what's the need for "philosophers" anymore when the enlightenment has had the ironic result of us realizing how animal, alone, and irrational we are---and that all meaning is dubious and contrived, in both an inspiring and horrifying sense.

also it's worth mentioning that the world wars and the strange alienations of bureaucracy and technology essentially proved all pre-nietzchean philosophers to be useless: if the problems of the mind had been solved to such a rational degree---why such chaos, destruction, and depression?

>>11766462
Ha, good one.

>>11766480
>also it's worth mentioning that the world wars and the strange alienations of bureaucracy and technology essentially proved all pre-nietzchean philosophers to be useless: if the problems of the mind had been solved to such a rational degree---why such chaos, destruction, and depression?

Why should one expect philosophy to be useful for the benefit of society? Is that the measure of truth?

>>11766418
Spengler, Heidegger, Strauss, Ted K, Ellul, Baudrillard

>>11766439
All these except I'll tack on Camus, Phillipa Foot, Badiou, Judith Butler, Habermas, and Zizek cause he's a ton of fun.

>>11766418
Deleuze. I'm based schizo now.

Wittgenstein pushed me into being one with everything, basically resolved my enlightenment/schizophrenia conflict favorably

>>11766520
If it's not utilitarian or "helpful" in nature---I don't know what it could be other than the vanity of the author and their academic fanboys. the cliche of "philosophers only learn philosophy to teach philosophy" is a cogent meme for a reason.

all this said, i do recognize the slow-pace of cultural evolution, and don't mean to completely underwrite the effects of philosphers.

>>11766490
>posts Ayn Rand
weak sauce

>>11766520
>>11766604
>Is that the measure of truth?

If the quest is for truth itself, void of utility and bias, then I think such a dogmatic approach has proven both futile and, yeah, fairly pointless. a conceit, if you will.

nietzche's opening to good and evil almost directly addresses the mistaken approach towards truth held by traditional, technical philosophers--which again goes towards my point that he killed what we normally think of as "Philosophy"

>>11766418
Macintyre, Scheler, and Gilson have impacted how I see the world.

>>11766418
No. If anything I try to rid myself of its foul influence.

>>11766418
Tyler burge and Evola

>>11766643
What have you found?

>>11766643
>>11766674
or what has come of it?

>>11766666
Alright mega satan, I'll read some Evola if you insist.

>>11766418
Has any pre-Nietzsche philosopher?
Hard mode: their philosophy had to be the thing that actually impacted things aka Cartesian math doesn't count as Descartes being important

Vidal Gruun, Arsene O'Reilly, Daniel Ortega.

There are loads out there if you just start to look for them.

>>11766677
haha I only really liked him because of the pre Nietzsche stuff I have found valuable. Some of his works played upon that.

>>11766418
Nietzsche was a syphilitic proto-nazi retard

Jean Baudrillard
Jacques Derrida
Roland Barthes
Michel Foucault
Umberto Eco
are the real deal

>>11766462
You had me until psychoanalysts and now I just think you're gay.

>>11766678
I like Plato and Spinoza

>>11766690
syphilitic proto-nazi genius*
reading mein kampf is reading the practical realization of everything nietzsche said. it's beautiful.

>>11766717
That's cool. You mind sharing an example?

>>11766678
Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas

>>11766717
>I've never read Hitler's ghostwriter or Nietzsche, but /pol/ told me the real red pill is the unreadpill

>>11766480
>Essentially nietzche gave birth to existentialist philosophy (in it's modern appearance, at least)
N was not an existentialist, read Kaufmann's Nietzsche guide and footnotes before you embarrass yourself more.
>>11766690
he probably didn't have syphilis and he was not a Nazi, he was an Imperialist with White Supremacist sympathies (as in he recognized whites are better)
>>11766717
Its really nothing like N's vision since N lambasted the herd mentality of nationalism endlessly in all his books and loathed the idea of a people's champion as the absolute leader and was a huge advocate of paneuropeanism, something Hitler was totally opposed to.

Also >>11766772, Hitler didn't write that book at all anon. He was kind of limited to political genius and not much else

>>11766721
Basic gestalt:
Nietzsche did not like the priestly class and saw them as a threat to nobility. Priestly class in the context of late 19th/early 20th century Germany=secular Jews agitating on behalf of the material religion of Marxism, which is a "transvaluation of values"; a negation of German nobility. The NSDAP was the negation of the negation.

>>11766690
>calls Nietzsche a retard
>proceeds to name multiple people who were heavily influenced by Nietzsche, and who tried to follow up on Nietzsche's philosophy

>>11766796
>Priestly class in the context of late 19th/early 20th century Germany=secular Jews agitating on behalf of the material religion of Marxism
Are you for real?

>>11766784
>Its really nothing like N's vision since N lambasted the herd mentality of nationalism endlessly in all his books and loathed the idea of a people's champion as the absolute leader and was a huge advocate of paneuropeanism, something Hitler was totally opposed to.
I think the NSDAP saw that they had an opportunity to win the sentiment of the masses and took it. I don't think National Socialism as it was manifest for the few years Hitler was in power was the endgame. They had a clear elite class and a class to be ruled over. Nietzsche was just autistic and thought gaining power this way was illegitimate somehow.
>>11766772
>Hitler didn't write Mein Kampf
there's no hope for you

>>11766808
Yes. Nietzsche even talks about Jews as a priestly class of their own in Antichrist and Genealogy of Morals.
>Let us not look for the secret of the Jew in his religion, but let us look for the secret of his religion in the real Jew. What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money.
Marx would even readily admit such a thing as truth. He did, in fact.

>>11766812
>there's no hope for you
But I'm still alive, unlike your failed brainlet God. Doesn't that mean that you're the one that really doesn't have any hope, and I'm the one here to laugh at your clinging to the old ways?

>>11766822
Limiting his priestly class solely to the Jews is very misleading though, even in the context of late 19th/early 20th century Germany.

Evola, Junger, Linkola, Ted Kaczynski, the list could go on

>>11766418

Rather than reading philosophers themselves, just read what they did in life and their political views

if someone is likes maoism or some bullshit like that you can just avoid them or read them for ironical purposes

>>11766828
Agreed, I wasn't trying to do that, just pointing out parallels. The Nazis=the warrior caste, who felt the German people were being held down by the Jews=the priestly caste.
>>11766823
>old ways
it's not over :)

>>11766796
Even those priestly classes that blessed the crusades?

>>11766796

Nietzsche hated anti semitism

stop adjusting history to what you think it is

>>11766874
To be fair, all of Nietzsche's criticisms are highly nuanced, including his criticism of antisemitism. Basically, there's no political system so far that has perfectly represented Nietzsche's philosophy.

>>11766874
Nietzsche saw the antisemitism of the average person as being a manifestation of a low form of directionless cynicism. He was far from apologetic or sympathetic for Jews.

>>11766874
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16joDItRYug&t=315s

>>11766894

well that's exactly what happens when you put a good critique of something into the masses of npcs

>>11766874
But he also hated the jews

>>11766418
this thread is absurd

>>11766867
yes.
>>11766812
No, he reviled the idea of the German reich, the Nationalist movement and petty ethnic tribalism. You're using your presupposition that NSDAP was like N's new philosophers as a way of guaranteeing a future that did not come to fruition. I'm sorry but you're probably wrong and being mendacious. N also did not care for anti-semitism or a movement based in cheap ostentation

>>11766612
Huh? How can that image be Ayn Rand? Clearly since there's no such thing as rationality or objectivity, it's impossible to tell. At most, we can say that the image is a bunch of lines and not much more.

>>11766462
There were plenty who followed him.

>>11766418
if by post-n you mean post-1900 then the answer is still yes. H-Diggity. Deleuze. I'm more impressed by economics than philosophy though.

>>11767048
That's easy, because since there is no rationality or objectivity, you can't tell me what I see in the image and I can call it whatever I want. I can even point out the near isomorphism that suggest you just photoshopped an image of Ayn Rand like a brainlet, and there's nothing you can do to stop me since I can construct coherent definitions of every term and concept I used without appealing to objective truth.

>>11766988
>implying the arab was le'tranger

>>11767067
Unfortunately, it's not Ayn Rand, it's some random lines. If you would have opened the image, you would have seen it for what it was.

>>11767086
Huh? How can that image be a bunch of lines and not much more? Clearly since there's no such thing as rationality or objectivity, it's impossible to tell. At most, we can say that the image is Ayn Rand.

>>11767086
Unfortunately, I know how to use alpha channels in Photoshop as well, and you're parlor trick won't convince me that trickle-down economics isn't pants-on-head

where should i start with neetcha

>>11766453
BASED NPC

op listen to me for one goddamn second. this simple trick will improve your life forever.

nietzsche fucking sucks dude. the more people who read nietzche the better my life gets because the higher the percentile every fact about me rises.

>>11767000
He believed in the right of the nobility to rule over the masses, which was reflected in the Nazis' top-down governmental structure. The Nazis were concerned with the mental and physical hygiene of the people, and were trying to breed a master race with a race-as-religion ideology, so that they could exert the will of the German nobility effectively as needed. What else would a perfectly Nietzschean political philosophy do with the masses? Laugh at them from a balcony?
Moreover I believe that if the Nazis had won WWII they would have eventually done away with Christianity and replaced it with some neo-Pagan religion with Hitler as a deity. Carl Jung predicted as much in the 30s and drew comparisons to Islam with regard to what he was witnessing.

>>11766678
Yes, Aristotle and Peirce shine the brightest.

>>11768100
you dont need to consult fucking CG Jung to know that in any long lasting violent regime, the original "founder" is made to be a deity, what a fucking brainlet are you that this is even a question to you?

MAX STIRNER

>>11769425
I'm referencing an authority for the sake of whoever reads the argument and may not take that idea as a given. Where is your argument? You agree with me then?

Camus, Thoreau, Emmerson to name a few.

>>11766625
nice...the last two are mighty overlooked

>>11766439
Max cringe

Plato or Aristotle

>>11766832
Surely you can separate between the ideas and the man? Surely you aren't so dense that you would write off something you havent read because you disagree with something unrelated to the ideas being presented?

>tfw about to read Beyond Good and Evil
What am I in for lads?

>>11766881
There never will be. His philosophy was geared towards the individual operating in life. It wasn't meant to set up rules for all lives to uniformally follow so we can live in harmony.

Creating a political system for Nietzsche would be like how Khomenei created the Islamic Republic of Iran based off Plato's Republic. It.... doenst really work in real life.

>>11769789
Absolute bRaInSpLoSiOn

>>11766439
I haven't read any of these except for one, so you're wrong

Nick Land

>>11766439
*snap*

>>11766462
>pure-reason
*Breathes in* HAHHAHAHAHHA AHAHA HAHAHHA AHHAHGAHA AHA AH AHAHA AHAHAHHAHAHAHHA AHAHAHA HA HA HA H AH AH AH HA HA HA H AH AH AH HAHAHAH A AH HAHAHAHHAHAH AHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAA HAHAHA OH NONONO NO NO AHAHHAHA AHA AH AH AH AH HA HA HHAHAHAAHA AHHAHA AHHA AHA HAHAHA AHHA AHAH AHAHA HAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAHAHAHHAHA AHAHHA AHA HA HAGHAGHAGHAGGAHAHHAHAHAHHA AHH HAHA HAH AH HA HAH AHA AH AH AAAAH

>all of philosophy at this point is safely divided into "before and after Nietzsche", and "do i agree with him or not"

he did his job

>all of philosophy at this point is safely divided into "before and after me", and "do you agree with me or not"

i am the greatest thinker of all time

>>11766418
NEETzsche is a faggot

>>11766439
>forgetting Spengler and Schmitt

>>11766418
Can I get a quick rundown on each of his books?

>>11766690
>proto-nazi
Yes, an existentialist philosopher who died at the turn of the 20th century, who explicitly disassociated himself from anti-Semites and was critical of German nationalism, foresaw that in three decades' time a homeless artist would become supreme dictator and write a propaganda pamphlet that references his ideals, so that he could appoint people to kill six million Jews. Give me a fucking break.

You are more than a retard, you are a retard who thinks of himself as a clever contrarian.

>>11770809
nietzsche is genuinely nuanced and was influential to existentialists, fascists, and others. spengler is another example of cross-political influence

>>11770809
Nazi is just synonymous with fascist which is just synonymous with "recognizes an authority" at this point.

>>11770950
seriously if theyre going to call Jordan Peterson a fascist and then turn around and say Friedrich 'ubermensch' Nietzsche is somehow a progressive, i just dont even get it.

>>11770820
Yes, and all these under 18 autists are so now so badly meme'd that they think that philosophers explicitly implied "genocide the Jews" or "genocide the whites/crush Western civilization." I'm not pretending to be some sort of "woke centrist mediator" either, but philosophical dialogue was created in the first place to avoid these scenarios.

>>11769741
easily; I'm planning on reading Wojtyla to get an expansion on Scheler's ideas

you have good taste btw

>>11766418
Heidegger's critique of technology is super relevant to todays world. In general I find his work to be the most relatable. His emphasis on everydayness and not pointless detached conjecture speaks to me. Honestly don't know if its because I'm a pleb but philosphers like Nietzsche and Sarte never really stuck with me or changed how I behaved.

>>11771751
I know that feel. I don't think he got everything right but Heidegger was a big change in my world view. I think about him a lot.

>>11770809
Nietzsche wasn't on the side of the anti-semites, of course. But when you see him call Plato a Jew it really makes you think if he was a true philo-semite. Like others said, his views were nuanced.

>>11766535
explain more

>>11766418
jordan b peterson

Greg Bahnsen

>>11766418
Michel Foucault