/lit/ - Literature

>>11763252
Just look at yourself, pal

forced fake meme by youtubers and youtuber enablers also go back there

>>11763257
Hey >:^(
>>11763259
Like who?

>>11763268
your mom

>>11763252
I can only assume retards and ironic memelords use this lingo

>Yet wojak derivative
>Popped up in last 48 hours across all boards
When will it all end?

>>11763344
This has got to be the last one, It can't get worse than this

>>11763252
>Study finds that people only use their inner voice 26% of the time
>/pol/ misreads and thinks that only 26% of people have an inner voice
>OMG Becky, NPCs!!
>Now they are making up statistics wholly and claiming 90% of non-whites And 98% of women don't have an inner voice at all, so they can continue to justify their bizarre brand of extremely specific racism (now brown eyes or hair means you aren't white- or if the shape of your forehead isn't like a certain type of male model's) and their lonely brand of misogyny

>>11763352
don't tempt fate

>>11763318
it's autistic stemlords who think humans are only accessories to their own life

they are not blessed with a personal daimon

>>11763358
And yet its 100% true

>>11763443

Just read the wiki article of p-zombie and that's it

>>11763439
Philosophy, specially classic philosophy, isn't really my jam, but this is an impression I had a lot of times when dealing with people through life. Perfectly normal human beings who look like they will never question or challenge shit in their lifes because they simply don't even think about it.

>>11763344
Does anyone else see massive parallels between this and the way the boomer meme popped up?
Really not organic, posted to every board and seemed extremely forced.

>>11763490
Probably some other discord guerilla like the gang weed dudes, except this isn't good like gang weed

>>11763486
They probably think the same about you.

>>11763490
Yeah it's well know that 4chan is testing ground for psy-ops.

>FUCK
>OFF
>WITH
>THIS
>FORCED
>MEME

>>11763358
>correct
>/pol/ *intentionally* misreads and *ironically* thinks
>correct
>intentionally misreads the meme and uses it to justify their own critical prejudices against shitlords they unironically misread as "misogynists" and "racists"

>>11763358
I'm not sure about that but just because people don't believe they use an inner voice doesn't mean that they don't, and even if they don't it doesn't necessarily denote stupidity or a lack of consciousness, that is a massive leap of logic.

Literally the most cringey special snowflake bullshit, the kind of shit i would have bought into when i was 14.

>>11763494
I wish they did, I didn't meant they don't challenge anything as an insult, I wish I was less belligerous and arrogant.

>>11763504
It's a way for them to feel Superior to tohers without them having to achieve something. Unironically the same as what they accuse sjws of doing

>>11763358
link this study

>>11763490
someone shilled the boomer meme for months, this happened overnight

>>11763467
jeez I wish I wasn't a barista

>>11763486
similar experience for me

remember when I had a philosophy class in high school and a large portion of the students would almost physically cringe whenever the teacher introduced a new question

>>11763505
My point is that the same pressures that force you to conform also apply to everyone else. Any given population within a specific culture will be under the same social pressures to conform.
Some are more naturally suited for it as they derive pleasures in other ways, for example, getting shit faced on the weekend.

It's a symptom of living with so many other people:
>There is no point in presenting your personality to people you may only see once.
>Can't use real personality at work because most conversation topics that are interesting are banned by HR. So you develop a work personality.
>So when encountering a stranger people use their work personality because it's tiring enough having 2 personalities, so it's better to default to the semi-human work personality.

To assume people never question things is silly.
If you want 'deep' conversations with people then make friends with them.

>>11763490
This. It feels super forced. The boomer meme was actually funny, so I didn’t think anything of it. This meme is totally meaningless and shit.

>>11763561
Logic? On MY 4chan? There's the door

>>11763358
you realize pol is fucking around anon. it's an injoke, like 95% of the content on 4chan

>>11763490
I assume that this sort of thing happens all the time on 4chan, random groups pushing shit because they find it funny, or for political reasons.It just contributes to the jungle like nature of the site

>>11763772
>merely pretending.

>>11763772
> it's an injoke, like 95% of the content on 4chan
This is the type of shit only newfags say

>>11763779
it's not like that though, it's not about trolling people exactly, it's just a giant interactive playacting thing for the sake of humor. It's a weird sort of humour i suppose but that's what's going on essentially. Ive always viewed that as the main social dynamic on this website in general. lit is one of the boards that seems to not really get it most of the time

>>11763791
It is clearly true, all the memes and shit are not supposed to be taken at face value. That doesnt mean there arent actual viewpoints people express, but the mode of interaction is very often ironic. I've been here since 2010

>>11763795
4chan has never been less ironic, people make jokes based around a hyperbolic version of their actual positions but the underlying belief is there and i have seem many people very clearly linking the study and discussing it seriously.

The idea that /pol/ is just jokes, is a meme.
The old "artistic works of fiction etc etc" is a complete relic. We social crusaders now.

>>11763791
What the fuck are you talking about? 4chan was always an inside-joke hub back in the day.

>>11763821
i wasnt saying pol is joking about their actual beliefs, i was saying there is a core culture on 4chan of acting like that. it is very present on pol, there is not a lot of it here, because posters here tend to take themselves more seriously and be less humorous.

the artistic works of fiction thing is still how i treat the site in general. and yes people do have more sincer conversations, im not denying that

what im saying is pol or wherever talking about npcs, they dont literally think people are npcs, its a joke.

>>11763806
That may have been true, but thanks to the constant psy-ops, 4chan has become a political weapon, under the governance of many outside operatives.
This npc thing is probably someones experiment on disassociating members of a population from each other.

>>11763833
>back in the day.
That's the difference. I've been here since 2008 and if you can't tell the difference between the past in-jokes and the current post-ironic (sincere) "in-jokes", then you haven't been paying any attention.

>>11763795
>>11763821
both of you are right, 4chan is a psychotheatre.
people enter roles for the fun of it, and in the process they accept the points of view of those they mock. a ton of flat earthers started that way, if you expose yourself to a particular point of view, even as a joke, eventually you start seeing it as normal.

>>11763844
Sorry I meant 2006. The swing was already starting a bit in 2008, but it was still just at the level of irony.

>>11763840
yeah I also watch chinese cartons and play vidyo

>>11763840
No they do not think people are LITERALLY NPCs, that's where hyperbole comes in, but they do believe in the message of "you are more conscious than those around you, world full of sheep etc, whoa this study proves it".
They have been trying to articulate essentially the same shit for years through the usage of "normalfag"

>>11763856
i do neither of those things, and dont support trump. ive noticed this board is very unwilling to understand anything that goes against their preconceived notion of 'rightwing' and the associated memeplex

>>11763869
that is more the r9k or x perspective. pol tends to view normal people as being ok, but subverted by jews, by leftism, by whatever. Then there is the racial thing, which is a genuine sort of npc situation for some of them, and a more nuanced 'overlapping bell curves' for others.

>>11763869
This. It's taking a sincere belief and presenting it in an ironic manner, which is post-irony. Using irony to communicate something sincere.

>>11763869
>No they do not think people are LITERALLY NPCs
I do. There's no man on the driver seat. It's what they themselves say; determinism, no soul, just patterns bruh

>>11763872
>ive noticed this board is very unwilling to understand anything that goes against their preconceived notion of 'rightwing' and the associated memeplex
you mean most of the US conversation, right?

Can someone be redpilled and NPC at the same time?

>>11763886
everyone has pulsions, dude

>>11763545

See:

>>11763626

>>11763844
>>11763853
This. All it takes is a scroll-down of /pol/ or /x/ nowadays to see how far it all has fallen.

>>11763561

This is absurd and an even more cynical assumption. Your Man belongs in Gehenna.

>>11763921
/x/ used to be very creative. 4chan in general used to be more creative. Now it’s all so political and tiresome. The worst part is that I feed into it. I love being political on 4chan, but it’s so soul-sucking. I miss board-tans and imaginative collaborations.

>>11763921
I think a clear indicator of the change was the evolution of memes built around indicating the posters' thoughts or reactions. For example the old "my face when" (which wasn't entirely serious and mainly about creating a joke about the reaction itself, and thus ironic) which eventually became "that feel when", and then you're fully into the territory of trying to communicate your actual feelings with a funny or ironic picture, rather than just posting a funny picture.

Are we remembering the good old days?
Back up to 2010 more or less the /co/ slogan was "/co/ is love" and we would feel super proud that we were accepting of whatever shit people liked unlike other boards. Then it became woman hating corp and chatting about dumb stuff always turned into hating on some tangential woman vaguely related to the topic.

>>11763944
/x/ used to be flash fiction and movie streams, maybe analysing args or weird myths. It went to shit so hard.

>>11763947
I think we lost the more ignorable crap like rage comics, dumb people tried harder to pretend to be smarter than they were and the only result was not knowing if they were idiots or just pretending to be.

>>11763952
This makes sense given the continual encroachment of feminism into traditionally male areas of interest. It shouldn't surprise you that people get defensive and try to wall off their communities from outside influence, whether you agree with them or not.

>>11763947
you can use tfw ironically though. I suppose i get the distinction youre making but I think that for one thing people always were sincere on this site to some degree, and people today still use the memes as irony. The boomer meme was almost entirely irony for example

>>11763962
the horror movie streams and creepy stories threads were nice. Now it is crazy people and larpers talking about all sorts of random new age shit

>>11763964
nah, that doesn't apply
women in refrigerators and the general idea that we should have more women comics (both written by women and aimed to women) were super basic talking points about how to save the industry.
I'm talking about half a decade before Jane Thor and muslim Captain Marvel, there was nothing to trigger reactionaries.

>>11763974
It's a subtle distinction. But I do think that "my face when" was not about communicating your actual reaction to something, but creating a "reaction" that was in itself supposed to be funny; in contrast "that feel when" is about creating a funny reaction that communicates how you actually feel. There may be some crossover but that's the majority usage that I've perceived over the years. And of course "my face when" is pretty much nonexistent now because people here don't understand that type of joke anymore.

anyone who genuinely believes this npc meme is a solipsist piece of garbage and should be hanged from a tree

>>11763979
I don't mind larpers, they exist and they'll be somewhere in the site. The new age shit is the real issue, that crap should be dead by now.

>>11763499
t. NPC

>>11763944
The case of /x/ is a sad one. I agree with you wholeheartedly that it was far more creative, and engaging. It was one of my first boards I frequented when I joined the site, and even when there were larpers they at least knew how to write a good story and curate an entertaining thread.
There was a lot of effort put in all around, and I fondly remember late nights reading serial killer stories, or
about alien abductions, ect.
Now anything gets diluted under heavy veils of irony to the point that serious discussion is impossible. It reads like schizophrenics arguing with the mentally disabled.
Sometimes I start a thread like the ones I used to enjoy, but they die quickly even if others try to bump it because I am the only one bothered to put effort into it.

>>11763880
I was a full blown /pol/tard and i have no idea how you came to think that, i mean, firstly r9k and pol are the same demographic.
Second, viewing people as blind, unaware and easily herded by jews is exactly the same as what i said.

>>11763952
/co/ is infamous for having intellectually worthless people like you.

>>11764014
well I go on pol to see what the far right is up to, and their view of recent news events and stuff. I have never been on r9k because I have never had problems socially. I see them as very distinct boards, i know a shitload of people irl that have pol esque views that are completely integrated in society, and not at all the robot stereotype.

As the left has become more intense in recent years a lot of people are now vaguely right wing, that was what Trump was about. People especially really dont like immigration, and it being forced on them is provoking many pol sentiments. Same thing with a lot of the feminism happening.

>>11764084
really?
Like, you couldn't say the same about every other board? Are you saying /o/ or /r9k/ are iconic bastions of intellectual discussion?

>>11763358
>now brown eyes or hair means you aren't white
Is this how they're coping with the fact that Trump won and their ideology is in power now?

>>11764153
>their ideology is in power now?
That would entail massive ethnic cleansing, religious authority, and patriarchy, which is very far from the situation at present

>>11764153
No one believes that. Most ancient Hellenes and Romans had brown eyes and/or hair. No White Nationalist is going to shit on them.

>>11763952
Were you there when /co/ scared off one of the female adventshit time artists that used to post in drawfag threads over there by creeping on her and threatening to dox?

>>11763942
I have no idea what that second sentence means.
My Man? Gehenna?
Please explain your argument, otherwise i'm going to end up straw manning because all you've done is in essence say:
>no u.

In addition, just because something is cynical doesn't make it incorrect.

>>11764164
See this is more what I was expecting, just denial that the victory was "real", best seen with the sudden concern over the "deep state" to justify Trump's relative lack of policy achievements.

>>11764164
>ethnic cleansing
>religious authority
>patriarchy

>>11764167
they were also okay with gay sex and hated people who didn't go to war.
the right picks and chooses like crazy their inspirations

>>11764167
the Nordicists will. but it is largely a meme

>>11764179
Which is why I left the radical right and am now a primitivist

>>11764172
well why is there not those things i just said, if their ideology is in power? If they were in power, pol like people, then those things would happen, how are you not getting this

>>11763772
>laugh at trump staring into the sun on national television
>get called a jewish shareblue psyops shill
yeah im sure theyre just pretending

>>11764179
well Marx was a racist antisemite, so the Left does that too. Im sure he had views on women that wouldnt be acceptable now either

>>11764190
I don't get the humor in laughing at that. I mean, I guess it's funny? I actually live in one of the towns that got a near perfect view of the eclipse. I looked at it without glasses and kept my sight throughout the entire process. You just seem like a nerd.

>>11764193
he wasn't, he wrote academic texts where he considered morality was secondary to pragmatic factors. This included the situation of the jews as an ethnic minority that refused to integrate in the 1800's.
He wasn't against them, he presented them as social actors that should be considered. You can alayze things you don't hate, you can speak about stuff you don't hate. Since the right is so bad at doing this we call them reactionaries.

>>11764200
>entire whitehouse staff outside staring into the fucking sun for 10 minutes on national television
>not hilarious

>>11764204
But every time i dispassionately talk about something like racism i am met with extreme anger and hostility. Think about the way somebody like Rushton writes and speaks. There is zero emotion, he isnt hateful at all, but he got death threats.

Is racism hatred or is it believing that races are statistically different? Is it both? because you can do either of them, or both.

>>11763772
>>11763795
the novelty of the internet and imageboards as a whole has worn off and all the creative energy is gone. everything here can be taken at face value with no meaning lost. The deep underlying inside jokes just dont exist here anymore

>>11764186
Because it takes time to go from normal liberal society to full blown fascism? The wind is definitely blowing in /pol/'s direction, and since the opposition is comprised of people whining on twitter I don't see it stopping anytime soon.

>>11763561
Nah, I have friends of 10 years who barely ever expressed "deep" ideas or whatever, and are very happy people and guys I like to hang around with. But whenever presented with anything slightly out of the curve, they just ignore it and go on talking about I don't know how Danzig is better than Graves or whatever.
They're not stuck to their beds having 15yo tier existential crisis they can't really try to escape from anymore.

>>11764230
The entire state department and academia and most of the media is opposed. It is in no way a concrete victory

>>11764221
You don't have to be hatred in your speech to talk from a position of hate. You're thinking about presentation instead of content...
I think? I don't know Rushton. Link me something if you like.
The point is that an amoral analysis will get people mad, for example you accused Marx of being against jews, but will be respected by people who get that you're not against something. The Capital isn't anti-capitalism, it just presents mechanics and how they would work under real scenarios, the issues it would create and proposes alternatives. You can read it and still think the capitalist system makes sense, you can like it even more.

>>11764239
State department is getting gutted, academia has no actual power, and only people who oppose trumpism anyway listen to the media. Let's turn this discussion around, what do you think will stop the /pol/ wave in the next ten years?

Literally everyone thinks through the ideal.

>>11763772
/pol/ hides the fact that they are serious behind these jokes.

>>11764252
>what do you think will stop the /pol/ wave in the next ten years?
diabetes

>>11763252
Everyone other than myself is an NPC.

>>11764252
I just don't see a white christian patriarchy actually happening. I guess it's not impossible but everything has been trending in the other direction socially for like forever. I could maybe see it happening in Italy or Poland but even then it seems unlikely.

For one thing while im sure Trump is racist and sexist and whatever i dont think he even remotely wants to instill a pol like regime. Hes just a narcissistic capitalist.

>>11764285
nah, its just jokes. that they do every day for hours, and never discuss other things besides making those jokes. it's just humor, dude, don't take it seriously!

>>11764243
I dont mind Marx at all, I find him pretty interesting, i am talking about Marxists and most of the left. The right do the same thing, im not denying that

you say its a position of hate, but it is just statistics, evidence. you are just implying a secret hatred that doesnt exist in all the cases

>>11763359
I'm sure /lit/ could come up with something worse.

>>11763358
That's pretty stupid. Many people intenti meditate to suppress their inner monologues.

Just read this for the quick rundown

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

>>11764295
>you say its a position of hate, but it is just statistics, evidence. you are just implying a secret hatred that doesnt exist in all the cases
Again, I was giving a general answer but I don't know this guy. I might be wrong or I might go in detail if you give me an example.

Statistics aren't reality tho.
You can chop them down to mean anything you like. You can pick where you take them from, you can ignore factors before doing the math, there are a ton of cheats. They are always worse than pure theory that can be compared and expanded. You shouldn't use statistics or evidence as base for anything, no science does that.

>>11763944
So did the internet in general. Look at what embarrassing slash ficcers got replaced with. I really miss them to be honest. I miss it all. I spent many nights reading bad fanfics with the lads.

>>11764459
the theory is evolutionary theory, which states that if populations are separated for a long time they diverge, especially under different environmental pressures. which is what happened. the statistics offer evidence in support of this conclusion. basic history does so as well

now actually having this debate is pointless in my experience, but the meta point here, is do you think a person can believe what i said above without hatred, or do you think in every single case it's hatred masking itself as science, because that seems to be how people approach this subject

>>11764431
>Swampman is an imaginary character introduced by Donald Davidson. If Davidson goes hiking in a swamp and is struck and killed by a lightning bolt while nearby another lightning bolt spontaneously rearranges a bunch of molecules so that, entirely by coincidence, they take on exactly the same form that Davidson's body had at the moment of his untimely death then this being, 'Swampman', has a brain structurally identical to that which Davidson had and will thus presumably behave exactly like Davidson. He will return to Davidson's office and write the same essays he would have written, recognize all of his friends and family and so forth.

damn, analytical philosophy is wack!

>>11764471
I think it can be said without hate. I can't say that was the case in human history, where race was deviced as a scientific concept without the scientific method becuase the european burgoise wanted it that way to validate the actions they were taking before.
Promoting it can also be done with a pure heart, but the people pushing it from a position of power probably want the same they wanted when it started, there's no reasson why it would had changed, so that pure person is being used to support their opressors.

There no reasson for anyone to hate one or another racial group, but it is exploitative in use and should be rejected on that ground first because it doesn't requiere an interest in the potentially hated group to be negative to the majority.

>>11764472
well its true

>>11764472
yeah, they pretend continentals are the crazy ones when they should embrace how much fun the field can be.

>>11764483
I think people just picked up on the differences naturally. People's general intuitions of racial differences map pretty closely with the actual genetic distance. I dont know about this idea of European elites inventing race. The chinese have had concepts of races for forever quite apart from us. They grouped all the western europeans together as the white man when they encountered them. Obviously these perceptions were vague and imperfect, sometimes deeply flawed, but there was a general correspondence.

There is this political aspect to it as you are pointing out, but it's also just an area of science.

I am literally the only conscious being that exists

>>11764494
People do pick that up, they don't pick up bacteria. That's why science should start with what people pick up, and if it has to it should start by disproving it just in case.
Evolutionary theory is by definition anti scientific. But it was promoted because it sustained what the power felt was right, money trumped science as it tends to do even now.

>>11764502
>>11764494
*science shouldn't start
pretty big mistake there, I'm sorry

>>11764502
>Evolutionary theory is by definition anti scientific.
I am not really following you, you don't believe in evolution? it also was very unpopular with Christians

>>11764510
when applied to human races
evolution is science based, sure, but not all aplications of science are correct just because they use the terminology.
You can use science to sustain anything you like, so you have to consideer who is saying what and why they would say it, then compare and contrast.
Even respected theories get tested again just to make sure.

>>11763493
>gang weed
Never seen or heard of this meme before now

>>11763505
"Belligerous" isn't a word

>>11763537
Become a dog walker, it's the superior "I have a useless degree and no marketable skills" job

>>11763842
>experiment on disassociating members of a population from each other
Not like they had to do much work

>>11764000
While I don't disagree, a place like /x/ is more or less readymade to attract New Agers. You get a group of people talking about aliens and spirits and shit, even as an elaborate form of roleplaying, and it's bound to happen eventually

>>11764236
Danzig is way better than Graves though

>>11764521
dog walking is a great job, as long as you refuse to walk pitbulls

>>11764520
>when applied to human races
why would it not be applied to us? Normal evolutionary theory applies very well to the divergence of the races, it's the same thing we see in other species with their subspecies

It seems so incredibly obvious to me that I am sometimes genuinely perplexed at how everybody is constantly denying it. I understand that 'we are all the same' is almost like a relgious feeling for some people, but the evidence is literally in front of their eyes, we dont even look the same way, our bones are different, we dont behave the same way on average.

it has been tested for a century and a half now, and the evidence is all pointing in the same direction. The only argument in that entire time is that 'there is more genetic diversity within than between groups' which is a red herring. That doesn mean clusters of genes can't be associated with specific groups.

but now we are having the argument that ive already said is pointless, so lets just cut it off and agree we dont see eye to eye

>>11764536
>why would it not be applied to us? Normal evolutionary theory applies very well to the divergence of the races, it's the same thing we see in other species with their subspecies
because the genetic difference between humans is very minor, even if our superficial characteristics seem to diverge so much.
This is a case where the science goes against the initial assumption you'd make, that's why science is important.

>we dont behave the same way on average.
Do we behave like cavemen?
Because otherwise it's a social construct unrelated to genes. City states and work assignments aren't genetical, communication and interests aren't baked on out genes. It was built through interactions and keeps changing all the time.
Forcing Darwin into this implies ignoring the data, which was one of the issues I mentioned before when you start with evidence before having a theory.

I'm sorry for greentexting, I feel it's a bit insulting, like I'm trying to refute you or something, but I felt it showed the points I was refering to before.

>>11764567
There subspecies recognized in other species that are more similar than the human subgroups, but it's kind of arbitrary anyway. It's just whether the genes in question have an important effect, the populations neednt be real subspecies to act differently.

As to civilization, i think that is two things, one is the epigenetic process, which explains why one race will behave so differently when raised in different contexts, mostly because of infant and childhood development, and the other is the strange and hard to define cultural substrate, centred around the religion. These two are constantly feeding into each other in a loop, and the basic material in question is the specific population you are starting with. THis is why CHinese, European and African civilizations have different cycles of up and down. Then we must add in how technology affects things over time, changing the patterns.

I dont see that we are forcing Darwin in at all, I think we are just seeing the harmony of Darwininan and cultural and technological forces interacting.

and we are starting with evidence, we are starting with the measures of behavior, of brain volume, of heritability of various traits, etc.

>>11764599
You are forcing Darwin when you're applying him to things he never wrote about, the objective would be to give scientific support to something that needs it. And that's just lying.

>and we are starting with evidence, we are starting with the measures of behavior, of brain volume, of heritability of various traits
All of those are cultural elements defined by the european burgoise.
A whale has a bigger brain than both of us convined, are they better at abstract math than humans? Do they make more complex tales to justify their actions?
The brain size is meassurable, and that's data. The brain size meaning a pattern of action is a theory that can't be proved in any kind of test, it falls appart in seconds. That's why you don't start with the data, you start with a theory that can be disproved. That's called the principle of falsifiability, and it has been improved a lot with the decades but it's a good basic rule to science.
If you can't disprove a theory, or its opposite, then it's unscientific. It's an assumption.

>Spend my Sunday evening and night relaxing, listening to music, and checking out whats going on with /lit/ and /his/
>Hit the sack, get up and go to class

Suddenly I get home, pop open my computer and I see this garbage meme everywhere, and it certainly wasn't around yesterday.

What the fuck is happening Anons?

>>11764676
just pretend it isn't there and discuss other stuff

>>11763344
The boomer one was an obvious monster promotion gone way to insane. And it was quite fun.
This one is just sad.

>>11764674
Darwin did write about human races though

and the brain measure that matters most is the ratio to body size.

we can disprove the theory, for example if the brain sizes had not been what we expected, but they in fact are, and align with IQ, with crime rates, with educational achievement, with civilization complexity, with gestation time, with twinning rates, with puberty onset, with molar eruption etc. Any of those measures could have not fit- and then we would have a problem, but they all do.

Groups of humans reliably cluster together when you look at these traits. Individuals who are mixed race reliably are somehwere in the middle of the two averages. THese are only bell curves however and you have all sorts of individuals in each group.

Also you keep going back and forth on whether we start with data or theory, we start with both- we have a theory, Darwin immeidately applied it to the human races. Then we have all this evidence.

I dont see what youre disagreeing about.

>>11764674
here is an example of Darwin writing about the races:

There is, however, no doubt that the various races,
when carefully compared and measured, differ much
from each other,—as in the texture of the hair, the
relative proportions of all parts of the body,2
the capacity
of the lungs, the form and capacity of the skull,
and even in the convolutions of the brain.3
But it
would be an endless task to specify the numerous points
of structural difference. The races differ also in constitution,
in acclimatisation, and in liability to certain
diseases. Their mental characteristics are likewise very
distinct; chiefly as it would appear in their emotional,
but partly in their intellectual, faculties. Every one
who has had the opportunity of comparison, must have
been struck with the contrast between the taciturn,
even morose, aborigines of S. America and the lighthearted,
talkative negroes.

Jump the boat on NPC now if you don't want to waste your time. Everyone already knows it's not a real thing and so trying to explain your interpretation of the meme is a waste of time.

>>11764702
>we can disprove the theory, for example if the brain sizes had not been what we expected
I just did that.
Are whales and elephants smarter than humans in proportion to the difference in size?

>and align with IQ, with crime rates, with educational achievement, with civilization complexity, with gestation time, with twinning rates, with puberty onset, with molar eruption etc
IQ only tests certain things, that's why it isn't used for anything besides fighter pilots. Science doesn't need you to come up with answers whithin a time frame, so the very basis of IQ tests is unrelated to any application besides identifying targets.
Crime rate is related to the way laws are implemented. I doubt we'll go anywhere debating why black people tend to be incarcelated more for having weed and white people have a bigger tendency to be mass murderers. All crime is either systemic (out of necesity, hatred to society, and so on) or accidental (one crazy dude). If it mattered the US would be one of the worst countries considering how much people total you guys have in jails. But that's not the case.
Educational achievement is also unnatural. Chinesse people have better scores because chinesse workers were kicked out and then only academic achievers were allowed back. Obviously if academic achiever is the criteria for a citizenship you'll get academic achievers.

As you can see all data can be used to get a result. Data by itself is meaningless.

Also, I'm sorry if this sounds like moving the goalposts, but when I said Darwin I only meant basic theory of evolution. Just because Darwin said anything doesn't mean it's more important than later developments made over his studies. He's tied to his era, so obviously his arguments will be too.

>>11764764
It is the brain to body ratio that is important not the total mass. Most of the brain just controls the systems that run your body. Our prefrontal cortex is the really important part.

Now about the data..yes the data is not perfect. BUt there is no counter data. There has never been a study that shows Thai people having better measures than Chinese. That would eb the way to disprove the theories, but that has never happened.

And as for crime, it's just a part of reality. Humans are animals and follow animal impulses in addition to cultural forces.

you are correct that we wont get anywhre though lol. i dont know why we are even carrying out this charade of presenting our positions

>>11763772
>Its ironic guis!
>Haha ya ironic that so ironic haha
>wait are you being ironic about the irony, how many layers of irony is this anon on
>haha i'm not racist haha thats the inside joke haha it's (((them))) the racism is the irony, ironic isn't it?

Somebody wrote an entire fucking book on this website about this topic you idiot.