/lit/ - Literature

>>11751627
autist

The Romantic Age is one of the great periods of art and creation in the West, comparable to the High Middle Ages and the Golden Age of Greece.

Tell us what happened

>>11751654
i'm glad you agree. it's the zenith of the western civilization for me

>>11751694
Nah, it was the final stage of decline. It was the last sweet goodbye of Western civilization. After that there was no more decline, only decay.

>>11751627
>any other /romantics/ here?
O LIFE divine! to sit before
Thee while thy liquid laughter flows
Melodious, and to listen close
To rippling notes from Love's full score.
O music of thy lovely speech !
My rapid heart beats fast and high.
My tongue-tied soul can only sigh.
And strive for words it cannot reach.
O sudden subtly-running fire !
My ears with dinning ringing sing.

>>11751863
Then what was it's zenith?

>>11751863
it was the last gasp before we were consumed by industrialism and materialism, it's been all down hill since

>>11751694
>>11751654
Where do I start with the romantics? I've read Werther and A hero of our time.

>>11751654
>Golden Age of Greece
>>11751882

>>11751627
all romantic artists are rich fucks who sit around in their peacock gardens masturbating about how aesthetic their lives are

in the trash it goes

>>11751924
That's what zenith means. The Romantic period straddles the periods of traditional society and modern society and has the best of both worlds.

>>11751935
german or english romanticism?

>>11751946
ya i guess we agree then

>>11751944
byron literally sold his shit and went to greece to fight in the war for independence, died, and became a greek national hero still remembered to this day

>>11751968
Both. I don't speak German so the poetry will probably be useless to me.

>>11751627
Anyone ever read Ayn Rands book on romanticism? Did she get it right or did she misunderstand that too?

>>11751973
>Both. I don't speak German so the poetry will probably be useless to me.

i would just jump into the romantic poets then if that interests you: Blake, Wordsworth, Shelley, Byron, Coleridge, Keats and their best works

if you want more of the philosophical background then you have to go back to Rousseau, then Sturm und Drang with guys like Novalis, Herder, Schlegel, Schelling, etc

>>11751978
reading the wikipedia and it seems interesting just because it's Rand of all people writing this

>At the base of her argument, Rand asserts that one cannot create art without infusing a given work with one's own value judgments and personal philosophy.
>She specifically attacks Naturalism and Modernism in art, while upholding Romanticism (in the artistic sense, which Rand distinguishes from the philosophy also called Romanticism, which she strongly opposed).

Not sure how she could possibly argue in favor of romantic art while opposing romantic philosophy after also arguing the art is infused with its creator's philosophy

>>11751627
I just realized that the whole reason I loved the original star trek series was that it was one of the last tv shows with a genuine romantic hero

>>11752026
yeah I think this is what ultimately shifted me toward this romantic philosophy too despite not really reading much as a child

all those space and fantasy movies, television, books with the idealized images of deep space exploration for some greater ideal or knights charging heroically into battle, etc

what is romantic is in some sense innate in every one of us

>>11751627
last breath of the Ancien Regime,
of a better age that was taken from us

>>11751944
What the fuck are you? A utilitarian?

this guy and Słowacki are on par with the Englishmen.
german romanticism is best romanticism.

>>11751627
Who /new romantic/ here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5cZ-oLVJzY

Will this thread trigger a reemerging of romanticism on /lit/?

Melville is pretty romantic

isn't romanticism just defeated by rationalism. I feel like I am a romantic myself but I often feel that way in spite of the logical reasoning

Is Nationalism the most romantic political ideology?

>>11752500
Why is "logical reasoning" incongruous with aesthetic or beauty? To think logically, you need principle and circumstance. Maybe your principle is misplaced

>>11752436
When I'm not overcome with temporary cynicism, yes.

Morrissey is really boring without Johnny Marr.

>>11752466
the only music that has ever done it for me is classical and romantic stuff like Wagner, Tchaikovsky; German Volkslieder; and the fucking 1980's new wave rock and pop.

>>11752466
can only hope so, good thread so far

>>11752500
no anon, romanticism was a reaction to rationalism and asserts that reason alone is never sufficient grounds to act out your ideals in life. I think maybe you are mixing up rationalism and logic as well

>>11752505
arguably, yes, German romantic philosophy was very much concerned with this question

Was "Der Sandmann" by E.T.A. Hoffmann peak romanticism?

>>11752518
probably, I'm a bit drunk

>>11751627
Greetings from /mu/. I'm enjoying this thread and come in peace; my offering is some of the greatest romantic pieces, although I admit they may all be a bit on the late side...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-okPcLTbaAc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VMsFMLfRIY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UuhhvLeI6I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeKMMDxrsBE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZlsz4b4Yo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8I7uHb7GY0

>>11752514
This is objectively correct. That said, with Johnny Marr Morrisey was undeniably brilliant

>>11752566
You are correct, anon.

>>11752466
One can only hope

>>11752528
now, now anon, romanticism is no excuse for excessive indulgence and degeneracy

>>11752542
thanks for these, listening to them sequentially now

Recently visited the Gothenburg Museum of Art; it has an exceptional collection of works from the nordic romantics. I very much enjoyed it and reckon I'll visit it again soon. Do you anons have any favourite romantic artists?

>>11752641
Caspar David Friedrich obviously anon

saw a few minor landscape works of his in person in Stuttgart earlier this year

>>11752542
Is there even ever a classical thread on /mu/?

>>11751915
Maybe the reactionary modernism, dudes like ts eliot and ernst junger, or is that like the lament after the zenith?

>>11752773
Junger was lamentative of the past though he didn't grudge his times. I suspect he would have felt more at home as a landsknecht

>>11751627
Lord Byron was one of the greatest people to ever live. Also what is it with great Englishmen and leaving England? I feel like almost all of them do it

>>11752791
England must be a depressing place to live for a romantic, now more than ever. Byron's violent passions were at odds with England

>>11752797
this desu senpai, industrial revolution made it a dirty grimy place to live. That's also why you had for example Coleridge, Wordsworth, etc who moved to the Lake District to get away from it all.

>>11751627
What romantic /lit/ can u recommend that is not poetry or philosophy?

>>11752761
Yeah but most of the time they are mostly dead and boring.

>>11752944
goethe: werther or wilhelm meister or italian journey

>>11753042
Goethe was Sturm-und-Drang in his early works and Weimar Classicism in his later works.
The Romantic period came right after him.

>>11752944
Prose written by E.T.A. Hoffmann, Ludwig Tieck, Clemens Brentano, Achim von Arnim, Joseph Eichendorff and Jean Paul (even though he is not really considered as romanticist but doesn't really fit in any other movement either)

>>11752641
Bumping with Oehme.

How can one man be such a total turd of a person, but such a beautiful soul of a poet?

>>11753269
Thanks mate

>>11753237

>Sturm-und-Drang in his early works and Weimar Classicism
>The Romantic period came right after him.

Sturm und Drang as well as Weimar Classicism both fall under the Romantic umbrella

>>11753839
>Ivan "my colorist sensibilities are borderline Kinkadean and I tend to overdo waves at the expense of the entire composition" Ajvazovksy
absolutely yikes

>>11752466
I hope. Society has become so jaded over the last few decades that I'd imagine it's prime time for some hyper-reactionary romantic/idealist revival. Nothing exists except ideas, everything i do is meaningful, and humanity is all that exists. space means nothing. atoms mean nothing.

>>11752500
kys

>>11751627
>Man’s greatest tragedy is that he can conceive of a perfection which he cannot attain.
Is he talking about women there or something like society or ideal self?

>>11754956
Probably the lot.

>>11754956
both

Kennst du das Land, wo die Zitronen blühn,
Im dunklen Laub die Goldorangen glühn,
Ein sanfter Wind vom blauen Himmel weht,
Die Myrte still und hoch der Lorbeer steht?
Kennst du es wohl?
Dahin, dahin
Möcht ich mit dir, o mein Geliebter, ziehn!

Kennst du das Haus? Auf Säulen ruht sein Dach.
Es glänzt der Saal, es schimmert das Gemach,
Und Marmorbilder stehn und sehn mich an:
Was hat man dir, du armes Kind, getan?-
Kennst du es wohl?
Dahin, dahin
Möcht ich mit dir, o mein Beschützer, ziehn!

Kennst du den Berg und seinen Wolkensteg?
Das Maultier sucht im Nebel seinen Weg.
In Höhlen wohnt der Drachen alte Brut.
Es stürzt der Fels und über ihn die Flut.
Kennst du ihn wohl?
Dahin, dahin
Geht unser Weg.
O Vater, lass uns ziehn!

Where should I really start if I want to get into Byron? What are the "essentials", if he has them? Don Juan's been on my reading list for ages.

This poem actually spooked me.

I had a dream, which was not all a dream.
The bright sun was extinguish'd, and the stars
Did wander darkling in the eternal space,
Rayless, and pathless, and the icy earth
Swung blind and blackening in the moonless air;
Morn came and went—and came, and brought no day,
And men forgot their passions in the dread
Of this their desolation; and all hearts
Were chill'd into a selfish prayer for light:
And they did live by watchfires—and the thrones,
The palaces of crowned kings—the huts,
The habitations of all things which dwell,
Were burnt for beacons; cities were consum'd,
And men were gather'd round their blazing homes
To look once more into each other's face;
Happy were those who dwelt within the eye
Of the volcanos, and their mountain-torch:
A fearful hope was all the world contain'd;
Forests were set on fire—but hour by hour
They fell and faded—and the crackling trunks
Extinguish'd with a crash—and all was black.
The brows of men by the despairing light
Wore an unearthly aspect, as by fits
The flashes fell upon them; some lay down
And hid their eyes and wept; and some did rest
Their chins upon their clenched hands, and smil'd;
And others hurried to and fro, and fed
Their funeral piles with fuel, and look'd up
With mad disquietude on the dull sky,
The pall of a past world; and then again
With curses cast them down upon the dust,
And gnash'd their teeth and howl'd: the wild birds shriek'd
And, terrified, did flutter on the ground,
And flap their useless wings; the wildest brutes
Came tame and tremulous; and vipers crawl'd
And twin'd themselves among the multitude,
Hissing, but stingless—they were slain for food.
And War, which for a moment was no more,
Did glut himself again: a meal was bought
With blood, and each sate sullenly apart
1/2

>>11755100
Gorging himself in gloom: no love was left;
All earth was but one thought—and that was death
Immediate and inglorious; and the pang
Of famine fed upon all entrails—men
Died, and their bones were tombless as their flesh;
The meagre by the meagre were devour'd,
Even dogs assail'd their masters, all save one,
And he was faithful to a corse, and kept
The birds and beasts and famish'd men at bay,
Till hunger clung them, or the dropping dead
Lur'd their lank jaws; himself sought out no food,
But with a piteous and perpetual moan,
And a quick desolate cry, licking the hand
Which answer'd not with a caress—he died.
The crowd was famish'd by degrees; but two
Of an enormous city did survive,
And they were enemies: they met beside
The dying embers of an altar-place
Where had been heap'd a mass of holy things
For an unholy usage; they rak'd up,
And shivering scrap'd with their cold skeleton hands
The feeble ashes, and their feeble breath
Blew for a little life, and made a flame
Which was a mockery; then they lifted up
Their eyes as it grew lighter, and beheld
Each other's aspects—saw, and shriek'd, and died—
Even of their mutual hideousness they died,
Unknowing who he was upon whose brow
Famine had written Fiend. The world was void,
The populous and the powerful was a lump,
Seasonless, herbless, treeless, manless, lifeless—
A lump of death—a chaos of hard clay.
The rivers, lakes and ocean all stood still,
And nothing stirr'd within their silent depths;
Ships sailorless lay rotting on the sea,
And their masts fell down piecemeal: as they dropp'd
They slept on the abyss without a surge—
The waves were dead; the tides were in their grave,
The moon, their mistress, had expir'd before;
The winds were wither'd in the stagnant air,
And the clouds perish'd; Darkness had no need
Of aid from them—She was the Universe.
2/2

>>11752944
Thomas De Quincey
>>11755077
I'm not a big advocate of that idea of "essentials." I think you can read what you want and then if you like it, go back and read earlier works and trace things out that way, and maybe even go back and re-read and better appreciate what you were really interested in. That said, if you want to read various Byron, Chile Harold's Pilgrimage would be worthwhile to start, and then you could look to something like The Giaour or The Corsair. Not as a pre-req to Don Juan, but he has a late work called The Island I really like.

>>11755152
>I think you can read what you want and then if you like it, go back and read earlier works and trace things out that way, and maybe even go back and re-read and better appreciate what you were really interested in.
That's a very reasonable stance! I'll check out Pilgrimage, see what it's all about. Thank you, anon.

>>11752944
as someone said, de quincey, lamb, hazlitt

big gay

>>11755951

>>11751627
Highly recommend Isaiah Berlin's book The Roots of Romanticism for anyone interested in romaticism

anyone else depressed they will never be able to feel the sentiments expressed in romantic poetry because we have been raised in the wrong age

>>11757277
I'm more depressed that I do feel the sentiments expressed, but everyone in modern society would call you a lame faggot for expressing them.

>>11752542
I'd never heard of Scriabin before your post, but oh my god that's beautiful

With complete sincerity, thank you anon

>>11755100
>>11755107
That was great, anon. Byron really was something extra.

>>11751627
If Byron had a better hairline he'd be too busy smashin London thoties to write crap like he had.

bump

"Written With A Slate Pencil On A Stone, On The Side Of The Mountain Of Black Comb"

Stay, bold Adventurer; rest awhile thy limbs
On this commodious Seat! for much remains
Of hard ascent before thou reach the top
Of this huge Eminence,--from blackness named,
And, to far-travelled storms of sea and land,
A favourite spot of tournament and war!
But thee may no such boisterous visitants
Molest; may gentle breezes fan thy brow;
And neither cloud conceal, nor misty air
Bedim, the grand terraqueous spectacle,
From centre to circumference, unveiled!
Know, if thou grudge not to prolong thy rest,
That on the summit whither thou art bound,
A geographic Labourer pitched his tent,
With books supplied and instruments of art,
To measure height and distance; lonely task,
Week after week pursued!--To him was given
Full many a glimpse (but sparingly bestowed
On timid man) of Nature's processes
Upon the exalted hills. He made report
That once, while there he plied his studious work
Within that canvas Dwelling, colours, lines,
And the whole surface of the out-spread map,
Became invisible: for all around
Had darkness fallen--unthreatened, unproclaimed--
As if the golden day itself had been
Extinguished in a moment; total gloom,
In which he sate alone, with unclosed eyes,
Upon the blinded mountain's silent top!

-William Wordsworth

>>11751627
>Man’s greatest tragedy is that he can conceive of a perfection which he cannot attain.
I didn't know byron wrote that, it's something that came to my mind a few years ago though maybe it was induced by some writers who may have been more erudite than me

>>11752542
>all of these but in particular scriabin
based

>>11751941
What the Fifth-century in Athens produced an extreme amounts of cultural, literary and Philosophical growth in Athens that had a long lasting effect on the development of western civilization and could very easily be considered a golden age as could the 8th and 14th century be considered a golden age for the Muslim world.

How much German will I have to learn to appreciate Goethe?

>>11762845
Quite a bit, but it's not out of reach if you're not a native speaker by any means.

>>11751627
I enjoy romanticism quite a bit, but how can anyone *BE* a romantic, especially after reading Young Werther for example? Maybe it's just my personality desu.

>>11763211
What do you mean? It's just a philosophy which you embody like any other. Do you mean how can anyone choose to be a romantic knowing you will forever be sorrowful striving for the unattainable and the unachievable?

Bump

The more I read (and read about reading!), the more I realise that german writers are the most interesting to me. Reckon it's worth learning the language to better appreciate writers like Goethe, Schiller, etc., but also more modern writers like Mann? I speak both english and swedish as it is, and have been considering learning a third language for a good while; I just seem to find a new excuse to learn a different one every time I start.

>>11764568
>the more I realise that german writers are the most interesting to me.
Next to swedish and english ones, I should've said. What I mean is that I find german the most interesting out of the continental languages as far as literature is concerned.

>>11764568

>english and swedish

Swedish native? if so you will breeze through German. Definitely the best /lit/ choice there is aside from English, opens up so many doors to you. Highly recommend you learn it to appreciate stuff like this:

>>11755004

>>11765620
>Swedish native?
Yup. I've no less than two teachers of the german language in my family; my grandmother's even lectured on Thomas Mann in the past, so the fact that I don't know it is a bit shameful.

>>11765650
well then it's quite clear what you must do anon

Get to work

just bought Don Juan, did I like it?

>>11751627
stop appropriating 19th century germans to justify being a beta cuck you beta cuck

>>11752500
logic is applied to problems, problems which are worth solving are decided by ethics. ethics are just applied aesthetics.

>>11753042
werther is gay as fuck

>>11755004
if you guys can get your hands on "conversation's with goethe", go for it, that man was so based, it's a delight to read about his life

Where do I start with Chateaubriand, does it even matter? I've read great things about him from other writers

>>11753919
wasn't Byron the same?

>>11763182
Not that guy, but I've been thinking about picking up German to read some of the literary greats as well as the big philosophers, some Novalis, etc. I'm a native Dutch speaker which is very close to actual German. Should I just go for it and go get actual German classes etc?

>>11767851
>Where do I start with Chateaubriand, does it even matter?
Same as you do with every other author, with a secondary source introduction.

>>11768103
Depends if you want to learn to speak as well, or just to read. If the latter, classes are probably unnecessary, the grammar should be fairly easy for you to learn on your own. If the former, then yes, definitely go to classes because you can't learn to speak alone at home.

>>11751627
that's not /romantic/ that's just you being a faggot, Byron literally went around smashing bitches all day every day you dumb pussy

>>11768471
I'm quite sure Byron absolutely resented the idea of him being remembered for smashing bitches, rather than his actual work.

Bump

>>11768657
Byronic romanticism has little to do with the insipid sentimentality that we nowadays understand as 'romance.' The presence of the word 'Roman' in the word 'Romanticism' is actually important, remember Byron was obsessed with the Greeks. He thought of himself as a man consumed by the call to adventure and action (and indeed he died while sailing to Greece from pooping too hard).

It's almost more important that you understand the extent of Byron's bitch smashing capabilities to appreciate the legacy of his work. He didn't write love poetry to seduce anyone, he was the seducer in and of himself and that seducer then went on to write poetry about women, doom, Satan, the Orient, satire, fellow poets and writers, and yes, love as well. It's important to understand that Byron was not a Renaissance poet going "O she is so lovely" he lived in the apocalypse of desire where consummation is ceaseless, where attainment is null and rapture is a disease.

>>11752791
Read Portrait and replace Ireland with england

>>11752944
Melville, Moby Dick

>>11751882
I've been reading the English Romantics all summer, including DeQuincey, Lamb, Southey, Hunt (IC), and a few Peacock novels (theyre both quick and hilarious). Began with Shelley in the late Spring then once aware of Coleridge's major influence on him (especially in Alastor and The Witch of Atlas) reread almost all of Coleridge's poetry (there's really not all that much of it) and a bunch of Wordsworth's early stuff (up to the 1805 Prelude, which is great) thereafter. Planning on rereading all of Keats including the letters in October (he's a Halloween baby) and Byron again (minus Don Juan, which I've read twice) in November- right now reading Southey's Life of Nelson (first time) which I'm really enjoying (while bracing for the hurricane- my mom was evacuated early this morning).
Reread Burns a few years back along with Clare- was really into Blake as a teenager but am planning to go through him again first half of December-- before finishing out the year with Pickwick (again) Xmas Carol (for about the 10th time) some of Hoffmann's Tales, Novalis' Heinrich- and his poetry.
I suppose I've been rediscovering my love for The Age over the second part of this year (plan on really hitting the Germans hard in Jan and Feb) so yeah, I'm really feeling that monumental faux Plotinean *something* (au natural) call it Love if (you) want to. Shelley really burnt out hard on all of this, however, and it's very difficult to pretend as if not to understand (or as if not to see) almost precisely why he did so, or as if not to understand why this 'falling off' had to occur in general (it could NEVER for instance become a universal program) but I'm trying.

>>11770382
Oh definitely, but the fact of his sexual shenanigans and conquests should be viewed through the lens of his work, rather than as the main attraction. If we do that, he just becomes a freaky, sexual historical footnote, rather than a man capable of channeling his intense passions into great art like he did.

Believe me, I'm not into romanticism because of sappy "romance" as its used in contemporary film or literature.

'Ode to the Nightingale' is maybe my favourite poem.
Are there many other romantic poems that good?

In noon’s heat, in a dale of Dagestan,
With lead inside my breast, stirless I lay;
The deep wound still smoked on; my blood
Kept trickling drop by drop away.

On the dale’s sand alone I lay. The cliffs
Crowded around in ledges steep,
And the sun scorched their tawny tops
And scorched me – but I slept death’s sleep.

And in a dream I saw an evening feast
That in my native land with bright lights shone;
Among young women crowned with flowers,
A merry talk concerning me went on.

But in the merry talk not joining,
One of them sat there lost in thought,
And in a melancholy dream
Her young soul was immersed – God knows by what.

And of a dale in Dagestan she dreamt;
In that dale lay the corpse of one she knew;
Within his breast a smoking wound showed black,
And blood ran in a stream that colder grew.

>>11770659
actually a fantastic poem, thanks for that