/lit/ - Literature

>>11691082
Yeah that video is pretty good.

>>11691082
>ywn smell her unwashed penis

>>11691082
owning peterson is a sport online cause its so fucking easy

>>11691082
That's a tranny, right?

>>11691113
A very outspoken one yes.

but what if i dont want to wash my peanus?

fuck trannies lmao
*dabs*

>>11691160
>fuck trannies
I would gladly engage in such behaviour.

God she is hot

>>11691082
i thought you were memeing but he really did get btfo lmao. the absolute state of lobsterman, when he can be refuted by a youtube tranny.

>>11691082
okay, this is epic

Jordan Peterson is the Kim Kardashian of "intellectuals". There is no reason to refute or shit on him, because you're doing free advertising for his books, his youtube channel and his Instawhore daughter.
He is trash, his books are trash and his arguments are trash because this whole thing gives him free media coverage.
Jordan Peterson doesn't want to be respected or write a decent book, he wants to be famous, because he is an e-celeb, not an "intellectual".

I haven't watched the video yet, but you've taken Dr. Peterson out of context, straw-manned him and failed to comprehend his brilliance.

So is this basically the lefts version of DUDE SJW BTFO EPIC STYLE!!!
Thought those nerds were above going after the low hanging fruit or whatever. I guess its ez yt bux

I want to fuck her so badly

>thinking i'm gonna listen to a tranny for 30 minutes
thats where youre wrong

>>11691311
whos the not low hanging fruit?

SHE CUTE!

tfw no contrapoints gf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BDgQMGs7Mc

>>11691082
i was ready to hate this because of my transphobia but it's actually really really good and i would have sex with it.

Fucking love her lads. Actually intelligent and doesn't just strawman everyone. Her vid where she talks about how lefty academia is pretty great

>>11691282
this, but unironically

>>11691307
>>11691348
kek

>>11691282
This. He was an academic for most of his life making jack shit. Now he says vaguely controversial things to get people to buy his books. Seriously he was on every news station and podcast for months. He's a great salesman. But his advice is ultimately the same self help shit from 80 years ago

>>11691348
thought this was him lmao

>>11691364
This one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNAAAfLi0pM

tribal memeing is better than ontologically sound arguments. I don't care about jordan b beterson but he's good for teenagers who should clean their rooms and then clean the gene pool
the most potent and productive mobilization efforts have literally been about guys who could part the seas and turn water into wine

@december BTFO?

>>11691082
yes, we saw a while ago,

>>11691364
>her

>>11691431
This crossdresser is a retard, didn't see that one coming.

>>11691488
She's 100% pure woman

>>11691431
>Trigger Warning

Jordan Penison

>>11691496
Yes, how could I not see it before?? It is so apparent with her very feminine voice, nose, hands, etc.

>>11691512
Triggered?

>>11691082
I was actually looking forward to this but she misrepresents Jordan Peterson and doesn't do a great job in attacking his rhetorical strategy either.

Postmodern = deconstruction (dynamics of power)
Marxism = Class struggle (dynamics of power)

Combined they see class struggle in a broader perspective, that of culture (see Gramsci for example).

I don't know why people make misrepresent Peterson's views on postmodern neo-Marxism so much. Whether it is academically valid is one question, but it is clear in what context he uses it.

one really good thing about all these leftists channels that i'm already pre-disposed against and am meeting halfway by given my time is that their videos often include comical comedy scenes containing comedy content making what should have been a 10-15 minute video a 25-30 minute laugh a minute romp!!!

also that tranny voice is unsettling to listen to. when i was in school the word "gay" was a common insult that was sometimes used to mock homosexuality but more often it had an undercurrent of something else in it, like an inability to live up to a perceived ideal version of yourself, an accusation of triviality/immaturity. in blunt terms this bitch and her voice are fucking gay

>>11691596
Because wiki-intellects only require 2 clicks to tell you why someone is wrong

>>11691596
Poor Jordan Peterson, always misrepresented. How could we have known he meant people like Gramsci who I have never heard called post-modernist until this very moment.

>>11691601
>the videos are too long
>time to put on my Sargon and Jordan Peterson playlist

kys

>>11691614
He's not post-modernist, he just sees class struggle as something that requires seizing the cultural means of production as well.

Yet, what are these classes, then? For Marxists its quite clearly bourgeoisie and proletariat. But postmodernists see the dynamics of power differently. They deconstruct society to uncover which group is the determinant factor is constructing these power dynamics. Then, like Marxists, they divide society into 2 groups: the oppressor and the oppressed.

>>>>11691617

>>11691624
what

>>11691629
It's really not that difficult

5 minutes into this video and i have been presented with no argumentation or substantial content

why can't they just get to the fucking point

>>11691643
It's youtube. It's meant to be long meandering content with no substance

>>11691635
pretty stupid though

>>11691386
He'll enjoy the rest of his career avoiding important topics while writing and saying things that are "controversial" enough to get the attention of the mainstream media, edgy enough to not disenfranchise his followers but so dull that won't change anything or scare the status quo.
He is repeating on his books and youtube channel what he did his whole life in academia, putting himself in a comfortable position to earn enough money.

>>11691624
Yeah, that’s not true.

For people like Gramsci, classes were still economic, but he just turned his philosophy back to an ideological undead of economic struggle.

Some post-modernists, like Foucault, clearly recognize power in many day-to-day struggles, but this is not clearly an act between oppressed and oppressor instead these were conflicts between men and a system.

It’s been a while since I’ve watched this video, but I’ve seen a lot of JBP bullshit and he still fails to grasp the basic notions of the philosophers he hyperventilates about.

>>11691082
this is sad

>>11691664
What topics do you think are important?

>won't change anything
well he certainly has reached and effected a lot of people's lives, but I'm sure nothing but societal upheaval would impress you
>doesn't scare the status quo
he has scared a lot of the worst people and proponents of left-saturated academia. i don't know if you can tell, but the status quo in universities and intellectual circles tends to be very left, and they seem pretty upset about this gu.

>>11691624
that isnt what postmodernists think. postmodernism essentially deconstructs our idea of "power" entirely.

the charge of charlatanism on peterson and the rest of the right is because the right fundamentally misunderstands or is uninterested in what postmodernism even actually is or how it functions.

the people you commonly see on the left, mostly the internet intersectionalists and college professors, are not posmodernists. they actually hold to a high degree of essentialism, especially feminists. a postmodernist wouldn't agree that you need to be black in order to understand black "struggles", or even hold to any idea of "blackness" at all.

What these people do is essentially take postmodern methods and deconstruction, but then hamfistedly use them for modernist arguments and aims. its very shaky and full of holes which is why it seems so stupid to outsiders. because it is. but they arent postmodernists.

ironically enough, peterson is actually unironically more of a postmodernists than any of the "postmodern neo marxists" he cries about.

>>11691677
Oh, another thing, it’s not surprising that many of these philosophers are in some sense anticapitalist. If you believe one of your roles as a thinker is to imagine improvements to society, then you’re not likely to uphold the status quo. Of course, daring to question the status quo makes you Mao or Stalin, so actually JBP is right and we should all embrace the lobster.

>>11691282
i don't agree with this desu

dislike his style of argument or his ideas all you want but he's been doing the same thing for a very long time, well before he became famous for it. i was actually followed his channel years before the "professor against political correctness" series was released and all his older lectures are pretty similar to what he does now

he honestly seems like a bit of a mad man who would actually be willing to lose his job over the pronoun shit, it's easy to look at things in retrospect and say "he just the cultural trend against people's resentment of sjws/political correctness to sell his books" but this overlooks the many people who have had their livelihoods and reputations destroyed by going against this stuff (sometimes unknowingly or accidentally). peterson, far from being crafty merchant, was just one of the lucky ones and your perspective underplays how legitimately risky his (and many other's) seemingly innocuous resistance to political correctness actually was/is

>>11691488
>>11691512
I don't think she's fully retarded, tbqh. A bit too smug, but I think ya gotta see how turgid and aloof a lot of higher order philosophy is.

if you don't write accessibly, who are you writing for but yourself, your sycophants, and career academics? i don't think it's such a dirty concept that the aim of philosophy should be to reach out towards more people.

>>11691691
>well he certainly has reached and effected a lot of people's lives,

lol who cares

>>11691706
okay

this probably makes me bigoted but i cant get over her trannyness. the voice, the hair, all that. i cant do it. cant watch it.

i dont have a problem with people living in whatever way they want or need to feel content but she just makes it inaccesible for me,

>>11691628
>obsession
yikers

>>11691705
>oh woe is me couched around ghastly antisemitism

please end your life

>>11691732
amazing post

>>11691695
what's the point of deconstructing "power" entirely, if it's only in the abstract? didn't Jesus Christ try to do precisely the same thing? how's all that working out?

also, as to your point about blacks and feminists, i don't think he criticizes them as much as post-modernists as he does decry their upddated and reduced form of marxism into splitting the world, cleanly, into oppressor/oppressed.

you just sound like an islamic person saying "not real Islam!"

>peterson is more postmodernist
why? because he pulls from many different fields to make his point? sure, that's kinda true---but I'd argue that's a necessity of modern learning, andd it hardly seems "post-modern" when he concludes around something that sounds like objective values and that some ideas are quantifiably better than others. How is that post-modern?

>>11691082
so
this is the state of intellectual discourse

>>11691695
>that isnt what postmodernists think. postmodernism essentially deconstructs our idea of "power" entirely.

That's exactly the point he makes. Power is a social construct that has been created by agents. These agents hold the means of power by which they oppress "the Other'. In contrasts to Marxists this is viewed not by economics but by "institutions" and other power constructs, notably culture and language.

>What these people do is essentially take postmodern methods and deconstruction, but then hamfistedly use them for modernist arguments and aims. its very shaky and full of holes which is why it seems so stupid to outsiders. because it is. but they arent postmodernists.

hence postmodern marxism

>>11691712
irrelevant if you don't care, you pretentious cunt. the person posted that he "will never change anything", when clearly he has changed some stuff.

good point though. goddamn the only thing wors than JP cultists are zealous JP haters.

>>11691762
but that was kinda the point

>>11691772
huh?

>>11691082
Why do these people have to present themselves as so disgusting and decadent? It doesn't matter what the argument is, if the result is being a insufferable fag malformation with aura of raping men then you'll never catch on.

>>11691750

>what's the point of deconstructing "power" entirely, if it's only in the abstract

is this the "philosophy has nothing to do with real life hurr" point. because its wrong. now more than ever. postmodern theory about power and how it functions has been precient about future events. Trump's 2016 campaign as well as Putin's control of russia through essentially theatrical means were foresaw by baudrillard and deleuze decades earlier. this is real shit that describes the world we live in and its trajectory much much more accurately than anything peterson or harris shit out.

>didn't Jesus Christ try to do precisely the same thing? how's all that working out?

what?


>also, as to your point about blacks and feminists, i don't think he criticizes them as much as post-modernists as he does decry their upddated and reduced form of marxism into splitting the world, cleanly, into oppressor/oppressed.
that whole statement is just rife with ignorance on the subject it talks about. marxism isnt a "woe is me im bein oppressed"
ideology. it systematically analyzes and describes capitalism and how it functions and how people function within that system. even now, centuries later, although much of Capital is outdated, marx's central theories about capitalism are still valid and totally right.

marx approached his work as any european rationalist living in the 18th century would. As a reasoned scientist. It shows in his work. Meanwhile Jordan peterson talks about dragons and chaos and shit, Hilariously most of peterson and his fanboy's "arguments" about Marx's work is much more applicable to peterson himself. I guess that's the power of projection

>you just sound like an islamic person saying "not real Islam!

oh fuck off

>why? because he pulls from many different fields to make his point?

because he purposefully obfuscates what he's saying. look at any video or comment section about peterson. i guarantee you 90 percent of the arguments arent about his ideas its about what he's saying. he is delibaretly vague so as to move and shift his position to whatever is advantageous to him at the time. No one that has actually read Marx has any doubt as to what he was saying,. Marx was a modernist.
No one really knows what the fuck peterson is actually saying beyond "hurr triggered sjws".

>>11691082
> they most resembleth the lobster.
Well that's just embarrassing. This is your brain on exclusively modern literature.

>>11691760
>Power is a social construct

the absolute state of peterson fanboys. you people betray your ignorance and retardedness in every single post you make.

I didn't want to watch a f*male pontificating about, well... anything, but if she's a female (male), I'm in.

>>11691841
I am not even a Peterson fanboy. I am always suprised that you first say that I am a fucking retard, which is fine, perhaps I am. But you never retort my argument in a satisfactory way.

Power is a social construct according to postmodernists you fucking moron.

>>11691601
who wrote this? has its obvious bias but makes some sense to me too

>>11691854
power is essentially a force of nature resulting from relations between different things living or not

it is beyond human, it cant be a social construct

no postmodernist has ever made the claim that all power is a social construct

please never reproduce

>>11691082
This is a good video, and contrapoints is hot.

I like contrapoints but i'm still pretty uncomfortable with the whole trans thing desu kind of makes my skin crawl

>>11691871
That's not even close to a satisfactory retort. First you can't even properly define what power is (who can, really); you even added the word "essentially" in there which doesn't even needed to be added in if you had a comprehensive definition of the word. Then you strawman my argument by claiming that I stated that all power is a social construct, which nobody believes.

Perhaps we're in disagreement about who counts as a postmodernist and who doesn't, Regardless, Foucault emphasized the position that power is a social construct emanating from the interactions between different actors. For him knowledge and truth always depends on social theor, i.e. is a social construct.

Now go read a fucking book undergrad

>>11691082
>Posters: 38
>Replies: 79
go to bed, Contrapoints

>>11691915
>reading fuckault

anyway we're disagreeing about the definition of power. foucault was speaking about in terms of human groups, in which case of course it's a social construct its only relevance is in that sphere. the way you phrased it made it seem that the existence of power itself is only dependent on an arrangement of society.

i was speaking about power point blank, which can be seen in different animal species, non animal species, the interplay between different natural phenomena, outer space bodies, etc

>>11691706
>if you don't write accessibly, who are you writing for but yourself
People who are passionate in the field itself?? Why would I aim my writing at the average prole unless im trying to make a dollar?

>>11691082
>getting proven wrong by a tranny
peterson on suicide watch

>>11691596
>she

>>11691601
>her

>>11691624
> Then, like Marxists, they divide society into 2 groups: the oppressor and the oppressed.
Turns out Nazis are Marxists because all the goyim are getting oppressed by the Jews.


lol @ this joker

>mfw I would fuck Natalie in his boiipussy in a heart beat

>>11691082
Not a bad criticism video but it always annoys me when someone's like "totally not biased critic" when it's clear there's bias.

>>11691082
would succ / 10

honestly considered moving to baltimore just so i could hit her up on tinder

>>11692522
>>11692544
She's attracted to women i.e. autogynophillic

>>11692547
No she's started dating men now, exclusively as well I think. She talks about it in her incels video.

>>11692547
did you just assume my gender?

>>11692554
>her

>>11692554
Woah, we have a tranny expert here. Either way; she's autogynophillic

>>11692558
idgaf dude if men can be women now I'll roll with it.

>>11691082
Not much to the critique when you remove the pomp. Superficial all-in-all

>>11691328
On the right wing? People like Greg Johnson from counter-currents

>>11692547

>implying I care if he doesn't consent

You have a lot to learn, new friend

>>11691596
>"Post-modern=deconstruction"
Postmodernism never only refers to deconstruction, be it the offhand understanding that postmodernism is about undermining values nor deconstruction theory via Derrida.
>"Marxism...Gramsci"
Gramsci discussed the hegemony of bourgeois capitalist class as it extends to culture, but observed and analyzed it empirically through the divisions between urban and pastoral populations apparent despite shared economic class conditions. Drawing from Marx's notion of "superstructure," Gramsci recognized culture developed from the economic base of capitalist social conditions to affect capitalist hegemony. Gramsci's developed praxis resembled traditional Marxist political economic theory and predates postmodernism by decades.

>>11691097
>her
>>11691182
>she
>>11691312
>her
>>11691329
>SHE
>>11691346
>gf
>>11691364
>her
>Her
>she
>>11691496
>She's
>>11691585
>her
>>11691596
>she
>>11691601
>her
>>11691706
>she's
>>11691729
>she
>>11691843
>she's
>>11692547
>She's
>>11692554
>she's
>She
>her

he made an absolute shit video on incels so disingenuous that i just couldn't trust another word from this faggots mouth

>>11692714
hi virgin

>>11692716
i'm not a virgin but nice try neo marxist

It's a good video but I think Petersons's detractors need to stop thinking that 'Post-Modern Neo-Marxism' has anything to do with the formal definitions of the terms involved. Peterson invented the term to describe a phenomenon, and saying that it doesn't share the same characteristics as its conglomerate parts isn't an effective strategy. A truly effective rebuttal would be to take Peterson's definition of the term (academics who distill everything down to power and oppression) and show that it is wrong.
I also disagree with her argument for Trans pronouns. It is an extension of freedom for people to decide their own pronouns, but another equally important freedom is for individuals to use the words they wantand by extension, describe their world.

>>11691760
What? You know that Foucault, who's the pomos most obsessed with power, was a Nietzschean moralist, right? Any attempt to "improve" society will involve power, where the difference is in who has it; Foucault barely cared about oppressed-oppressor narratives, since the improvement of the positions of the oppressed involves power waged elsewhere.

>She

>>11691601
>This makes sense to straightcucks

>>11692695
based

>>11691328
Ben Shapiro because he murder you WITH FACTS AND LOGIC

>>11691348
BK coffee > McDonald coffee > local coffe shop > Starbucks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tim Hortons

>>11692969
Dunkin Donuts > your whole list except switch McDonald's and BK

>>11691082
I want to fuck this tranny

I remember when I found Peterson through /lit/ when he only had normal class lectures up on his site. Pretty cool stuff, got me interested in psychology after avoiding the stuff because of being introduces to it with stuff like freud.

One thing I always find odd about the criticisms of him is that they always seem to ignore how mentally unstable the guy is. I mean, the guy was literally a chyuunibyou until something like the age of 25. He would wear a cape and some sort of wierd hat. He seems to believe he is actually some sort of prophet who has had experiences of diving revelation. In one of his semi recent biblical lectures he hinted that he has communicated directly with god. He even says his family has a history of very severe mental illness. He hasn't handled the fame and attention well and you can watch in real time as he breaks at his genetically determined weak points as he might put it.

I think hes a cool guy and but I dont know why this stuff doesn't seem to get brought up. Its actually sort of painful to look at, maybe thats the reason.

>>11693182

>>11691082
Nice strawman.