/lit/ - Literature

Lady a poohead

>>11659348
>New thread niggers
Why the racism?

Reminder Zoe Quinn very nearly won a Hugo Award.

>>11659370
It's part of my cultural heritage.

"We don't care about hugos"
>Proceeds to cry about them the entire thread

>>11659336
what is the jump on of books?

Related threads:

>>11652462

>>11646638

>>11659389
>there are people that take this award shit seriously

How dated is Neuromancer? I'm a STEM major (xD) that doesn't read much sci fi. I've tried Caves of Steel but found it a little too jarring, though I know Neuromancer is much later.

Incidentally, System Shock 1/2 and Deus Ex are some of my favorite games, though I haven't played anything much in a couple years

>>11659389
lmao

>>11659410
Oh both of them will be forgotten when God-Emperor Trump ushers us onto the Golden Path.

>>11659407
jesus, are those buttocks padded somehow?

>>11659400
This general is just a shitposting ground. Rarely ever do people actually discuss books.

sanderfag a hack

What does /lit/ think of Elric? It's usually put in the top 5 or so of fantasy but there is very little discussion or writing about it online.

I just read it for the first time and loved it although it gets repetitive and cash-grabby for a long stretch in the middle when read in chronological order.

>>11659412
they should. recognition is power. do you want to empower rabid feminists?

>>11659439
sanderhater a fag

>"Author NK Jemisin has scooped her third Hugo award for best science-fiction novel and, in doing so, has become the standard-bearer for a sea change in the genre’s diversity, as women – especially women of colour – swept the boards at last night’s ceremony.

>"On making it a hat-trick with The Stone Sky, the third book in her Broken Earth series, Jemisin said: “As this genre finally, however grudgingly, acknowledges that the dreams of the marginalised matter, and that all of us have a future, so will the world.”"

>"The diversity of this year’s Hugo awards signals an end to influence of the Sad and Rabid Puppies, two groups of rightwing and conservative science-fiction and fantasy fans and authors that attempted to nominate authors who they felt were not “overtly to the left”"

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/aug/20/hugo-awards-women-nk-jemisin-wins-best-novel

How many Jemisin novels have you read, /sffg/?

>>11659433
shooped.

>>11659440
Elric's pretty good, but we prefer to bitch about Sanderson and Cuckfuss.

>>11659450
i dont read poopoo excreted by magic poopoos.

>>11659450
No one has.

>>11659465

I noticed.

>>11659450
>How many Jemisin novels have you read, /sffg/?
3.

>Sad and Rabid Puppies, two groups of rightwing and conservative
Wat. Wasn't at least Sad Puppies some ass blasted pulp authors that just wanted to win prices?

>>11659479
>Wasn't at least Sad Puppies some ass blasted pulp authors that just wanted to win prices?
It was both. Some members just wanted to win Hugos and some wanted to swing the Hugos away from left-wing schlock to right-wing schlock.

>light infantry with no armour and short spears in lose formation are effective against heavy infantry with breast plates, heavy shield and a solid formation
>light infantry in loose formation are effective against cavalry
>light infantry with no armour and hide shields are effective again crossbows and longbows
Bravo

>>11659512
Stop reading The Wheel of Time.

>>11659521
But then what would I complain about?

>>11659450
I accidentally read one of them without knowing anything about her but I could have guessed she was the way she is just by the characters.

>Everyone is some shade of brown
>Only one white character, who is surprisingly kind of badass, but his white skin is pointed out as strange and he must suffer in the sun
>Magical gay niggers having magical gay nigger orgies
>Tranny

*blocks your bigotry*

>>11659532
>"If black people want to see more black characters in fantasy they should write their own books"
>One of them does exactly that
>"Fucking niggers putting niggers in fantasy books"

>>11659410
It's fugly, which is a much better reason to change it up than "muh opinions". The books are very influential and well received, and I'd guess they are well written from people's reaction. Even if he had been tweeting alt-right opinions every day it woulen't change the contents of his books or their cultural importance.

>>11659538
no one cares about niggers writing about nigger woes in a fantasy setting. people care about them being empowered beyond all measure of caution and responsibility at the cost of actual authors.

>>11659538
I didn't say it was bad. I enjoyed the book despite the magical gay niggers. It was well-written and, yeah, if black people want to see themselves in books they should write them. She did and bravo to her. All I said I was I could have guessed her political leanings.

>>11659556
>Win a dumb award
"Empowered beyond all measure of caution and responsibility at the cost of actual authors"

>>11659533
What you gonna do, wh*te boi?

>>11659556
Shit books have been nominated and/or won the Hugos at the cost of actual authors since at least the seventies.

>>11659528
Jews and the degradation of Western civilization.

>muh Hugos
The Strugatskys never even got an nomination but I'll guarantee you their books are worth reading anyway!

Downloads are found in the sticky, we finish this weekend!

>>11659538
That's not what he said.

>>11659577
yes, and this has got to stop. we're shitting on our own plates.

Nigger here, I don't even like Jemisin.

>>11659538
Nice strawman, fag.

>>11659598
Already finished it. 10/10, would read again and recommend to a friend. Not sure how much discussion can be had about it until the 25th, but I would nominate this as one of my all-time favourites.

>>11659595
paste and redbilled

>>11659611
are you Lovecraft's cat?

>>11659611
Based black man

>>11659569
...keep writing?

>>11659749
Even though you know no one will ever accept your work, purely because of your skin color?

>>11659512
>models best warriors in his world on the Irish
>turns them into pasty zulu

>>11659612
People who resort to using “strawman” as an argument are literally too retarded to contribute anything meaningful to a conversation. You may as well just say “I’m too stupid to logically respond to your argument.”

This morning from the comfort of my own bed I yelled to mommy to make me breakfast. After a while of not having the smells of eggs and bacon and nestle chocolate power mixed with milk waft up in my bedroom I became concerned. I padded down to the kitchen in my jammies and slippers and saw my mother at the table engrossed in the newest Hugo winner. Finally she was reading a fantasy or sci fi novel after my many years of insisting she do so. But, no.. this novel... this winner of the that vaunted prize appeared to be written by a WOMAN. "M-mommy," I whispered. She turned her her head to me, slowly tapped the author's name on the cover, and gave me a look of contempt.
"Time's up," she said in mocking cruelty. "Make your own breakfast. No. Go ahead and make me breakfast instead" and cackled like the witch she had become."The Future is Female" she began to chant at the top of her lungs. "The Future is Female," she rang over and over. I lifted up my head to the heavens to plead and screamed "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

How do we stop women bros?

>>11659808
Tie them up to the kitchen, take away their rights, reduce them to sex slaves as in the past.

Also, what book is that from?

>>11659785
You didn't make an argument.

>>11659785
>s-stop pointing out my bullshit is a flimsy strawman! You're to dumb too understand!
lmao. Some anon innocently talked about some of the traits of Jemisen's work and your response was to shove words into his mouth that make him look like a racist who wants to keep blacks out of fantasy. Fuck off, fag.

>>11659765
There's a market for everything, regardless of skin color or whatever's swinging between the legs.

>>11659336
New to /lit/ is this where I go for advice on writing sci-fi or am I on the wrong board?

>>11659814
>Also, what book is that from?
My diary desu

>>11659823
Except that wasn't me.

>>11659846
yes, this is the containment board so that people reading DFW and Pynchon don't feel threatened for reading fantasy books with a highbrow label.

>>11659855
So you butted into the conversation to whine about people incorrectly using the term "strawman argument" even though I used it correctly? Holy shit, you're a bigger brainlet than >>11659538.

>>11659336
>tfw I'm so autistic that I must read every post in the entire thread
>tfw I have 7 threads to read before this one
>tfw I keep procrastinating and the thread count just rises
Help!! How do I skip posts? 30% of threads are shit memeing Ad nauseam, but I can't stop reading them.

>>11659872
No, dumbass, I'm not the person who said you were a dumbass for calling strawman but I am the one you called strawman before that person called strawman. Idiot.

>>11659830
When is this fag releasing his audiobooks? There are 2 books of his released months ago that still has no audio.
Also when teh fuck is super sales 3 coming? Fuck his xuxia world shit. I don't want cultivations.

>>11659876
Either way you're still a retard.

It is my divine duty to help a fellow sister being attacked by chicken necked /sffg/ posters.

>>11659872
You’re pursuing an MFA, aren’t you....

>>11659823
Learn to use “to” and “too” correctly. No wonder you have to resort to the strawman argument. I apologize, anon. I didn’t realize you were literally a sub 60 IQ.

>>11659876
So you're >>11659538 and >>11659785 is some other idiot. Whatever. I made an incorrect assumption whereas you said absolutely retarded shit. Also, you haven't posted any counterargument. I repeat, fuck off, fag.

>>11659942
Your eloquence astounds.

>>11659930
>Learn to use “to” and “too” correctly.
Lmao, with every post you dig the hole deeper.

>Bonquisha winning an award is enough to make the thread turn into this

>>11659919
Still no counterargument I see. Keep up the mindless shitflinging, champ.

>>11659559
>>11659872
>>11659876

Magic strawman niggers tweeting alt-right conversations about people incorrectly writing "sub-arguments" literally (60).

>>11659954
>W-who cares about the hugos?
>FUCKING NIGGER WON AGAIN FANTASY AND SCIFI ARE FUCKING DEAD

>>11659952
It's almost as astounding as your ability to read minds. After all, you must've read >>11659532's mind to figure out he's a hardcore racist. There's no other way you could've discovered his dark secret.

>>11659859
Oh good, because I'm trying my hand at it, but I have only ever written short stories, not a full length novel before.

Big question right now, is it alright if I don't write from start to finish? I get these ideas for excerpts in what will likely be the middle of the book, so should I keep myself focused and go beginning to end, or write whatever wherever?

>>11659954
More like one anon made a dumb shitpost in response to another anon's post about Jemisin and another anon took it seriously.

>>11659974
>It's almost as astounding as your ability to read minds.

I thought we all had this ability.

>his dark secret

oh stop it!

>>11659982
Write in whatever way you feel suits you the best. I go from start to finish, linearly, but that's just me: if you feel that you can just write stuff here and there out of order, then more power for you.

>>11659987
It was still enough to ruin the entire thread.

>>11659971
Damn...

>>11659989

Gibson says he does his writing passes recursively starting from the front, so the beginnings are extensively edited and the endings are the original take.

Then again, he also claims (in that same interview) to do little else besides writing, Pilates, and mowing his lawn, so maybe he's presenting the authorial tabula rasa, so to speak.

>>11659891
>There are 2 books of his released months ago that still has no audio
wild wastes 3 audiobook was literally released yesterday.
only fostering faust doesnt have one yet. wuxia book is being released in a few days. and super sales 3 is currently being written. hes posting the chapters on his patreon.
https://www.patreon.com/WilliamDArand
im estimating a release in about a month or two. hes writing his books fairly quickly.

>>11659993
We haven't even hit 100 posts yet. Things can turn around.

>>11659972
>not sending all your blacks to die in a war so you don't have to deal with white guilt
baka desu senpai, you should have done what my country did.

>>11660097
Where do you live?

>>11660134
Argentina, that's why the memes

https://www.ibtimes.com/blackout-how-argentina-eliminated-africans-its-history-

>>11659532
>>11659533
>>11659450
>adapted from the award winning film

>>11660038
Nah it'll probably take a few days/weeks for the low-t "I'M NOT MAD SHE WON THE HUGO! I'M NO TMAD!" crowd to calm down and drink their alex jones super brain formula with extra phytoestrogens.

How is this supposed to be enjoyable?
Im halfway through this pile of shit and nothing fucking happens. What the fuck?

>>11660209
If you'd stop baiting like a retard they'd have stopped by now.

>>11659954
>Retard spams "u mad white boi?"
>Responds to himself to get things started

Can someone post the Dune book recommendation chart please

>>11660209

>alex jones super brain formula

hey! it has theanine in there, probably works even better than placebo

>>11660209
Why are you getting so mad over people joking about the Hugo Award and how terrible Jemisin's writing is?

>>11660280
I've noticed there are one or two progressive shitposters in /sffg/ who try their hardest to derail all negative discussion of sci-fi authors who happen to be minorities. Like clockwork, as soon as someone makes a joke or criticism of the Hugos or someone like Jemisin you get spammed with posts that boil down to "you fucking alt-right misogynist racist i bet you voted for Trump and watch Alex Jones!" I think it's one or two people because all of the posts have the same prose. My advise is ignore it.

>>11660142
>how to link pages

Worm > Ward > Twig > Pact

Arand is a shameless hack.

If you start writing garbage you too can have fat stacks.

Worm > Ward > Twig > Pact

>>11659440

So how about that Elric?

>>11660326
Worm doesn't have Twig's waifus though.

>>11660035
>wild wastes 3 audiobook was literally released yesterday.
His patreon said it was released the 17

>>11660342
>Written by Michael Moore's Cock

>“Puuu~~~”
>Suddenly, Han Yu opened his mouth, and a large mouthful of blood sprayed out. Following that, he took several steps back and nearly fell to the ground.
>Han Yu was actually enraged to a state of vomiting blood. Not only that, but his complexion had turned paper pale. He was simply akin to a dying man. It was a very shocking appearance.

does this kind of thing happen irl or is it just chinese things

>>11660309
>i'm NOT MAD! anybody who says otherwise is part of a PROGRESSIVE CONSPIRACY AGAINST ME!

>>11660449
That happens to sick people period. I've heard of Chinese getting so angry they pop a blood vessel and have a stroke but not blood puke.

>>11660521
Okay seriously? Stop. Regardless if you start it or not, you're just continuing the shitposting.

Stop it.

>>11660539
Be the bigger person and stop replying.

>>11660449
It happens. Just like the violent streaming nosebleeds I get whenever I glimpse a pair of purple and white striped pantsu

Yo fellas is Titus Groan worth reading?

I'm thinking of getting it cheap on ebay. Looks interesting. Is it really dated?

>>11660567
Looks groanworthy.

>>11660567
its good. its a bit of a slog, but once you read it you'll look back on all the great characters and exploits and you'll love it.

>>11660567
It certainly have an older feeling, if you don't like that it might not be for you. I personally find it absolutely amazing.

I feel like there's an untapped market of fantasy books adaptations to be explored. I mean netflix has already made a couple of original animes, so why not do an anime of some Brandon Sanderson series? Why not make a hack and slash or an rpg based on one of the hundreds of ultra popular fantasy novels out there? We already have the witcher and game of thrones, and both are best sellers, so why are not more directors and developers adapting books?

>>11660727
Probably because making a game is still hard regardless of the bells and whistles out on it. They tried making an aRPG of Game of Thrones and it was abysmal.

>>11660318
sorry m8 I was in a hurry to go to work

https://www.ibtimes.com/blackout-how-argentina-eliminated-africans-its-history-conscience-1289381

>>11659873
>30% of threads are shit memeing
30% is a pretty low estimate

>>11660742
Abysmal from a gameplay or story perspective? If the former, then it's not the fault of the source material. My whole point is that why write a new story when you could adopt someone else's? It's not like this hadn't been shown to work before. I mean is a castlevania anime a more attractive idea than an adaption of name of the wind or the way of kings?

>>11659873
Use word filters

>>11660817
Nobody wants normie swarms in the fandom. Filming Tolkien and GRRM was a mistake.

>>11660727
Sanderson sold his Cosmere rights to some Chinese-based movie company for a lot of money, adaptations are reportedly in the works, so no anime adaptation. Sandersons glowing magic would fit the genre and a competent studio could do it justice.

>>11660817
Both. It takes experts from both fields, fans of the work, and developers who know what makes an enticing game. Botch one, and the other has to be twice as good to compensate. Witcher was that rare sort of combination where both meshed perfectly with each other.

I'm not saying this is a bad idea. There's dozens of series I want to see made into games. Old Man's War, the Spellmonger series, Riverworld. I'm just saying if you want to sell a new series to an audience that has never heard of it, you need to make a damn good first impression.

>>11660945
>Witcher was that rare sort of combination where both meshed perfectly with each other.

I'd say something, but the thread has seen enough shitposting for one day.

>>11660958
I won't pretend it didn't have problems. What I'm saying is that the book universe and the game managed to mix. Examples of it not working would be the first Witcher...or the aforementioned Game of Thrones RPG.

>>11660817
From a business standpoint it's better for the studio to have their own IP than to deal with the big shot fantasy writer vetoing their story writers, or preventing them from making a sequel because they didn't like the first game.

What's more common is a studio will pay a notable author to write the story and then go from there, Kingdoms of Amalur for example had R. A. Salvatore write the setting story, but the game is really more notable for how it involved Baseball's Curt Schilling almost bankrupting the state of Rhode Island trying to make a single-player World of Warcraft clone.

Or they'll license the setting from the author, eg Betrayal at Krondor was licensed from Raymond E. Feist's Riftwar series and he only had "editorial control" over the final script, and Feist later wrote a novelization of the game and credited the game writers as co-authors. Likewise for the Witcher series but IIRC Sapkowski thought the games wouldn't amount to anything because "you can't tell good stories with games" (a fair opinion considering most game writing), so he gave them full control and is now complaining about how they're "costing him book sales" and "I only did it because they gave me a lot of money"

>>11661052
>"I only did it because they gave me a lot of money"
kek

>>11659440
Funny you mention it anon. I talked about it in the last thread. I'd like to get into at some point and have a comic on order, but fear that Moore's focus on the cosmology and multiverse will ruin things for me.

>>11661052
>you can't tell good stories with games
He's not wrong.

>>11661144
*blocks your path*

>>11661144
gamers spend years claiming games are art, get angry when CALWLADUDY FOUR: MODERN WARFARE is subjected to literary criticism, then attempt to claim that art games aren't actually games.

>>11661171
>*hides in the bushes outside Ellen Page's house in violation of the retraining order*

FTFY

>>11661144
>>11661171

>>11661189
>The game's story is one giant 4th wall break, this proves video games are their own unique medium that books or movies can't keep down anymore!

>>11661052
>"costing him book sales"
which has to be just wrong. those books are more popular than ever. 3 years ago you couldnt find the witcher books in a store, now they take up a whole shelf.
>nearly bankrupted the state of rhode island making a WoW clone
kek what?

>>11661189
>literally just Alice in $oyderland

>>11661197
This unironically.

A lot of people love Undertale because of all the feels and goats and skeletons and tears and shit, and then a lot of people hate it out of spite because the former won't shut the fuck up. Which is a shame because I think it does legitimately do great things with video game storytelling, things that no other medium can manage.

And hey, the actual story's still pretty good too.

>>11661186
>gamers spend years claiming games are art, get angry when CALWLADUDY FOUR: MODERN WARFARE is subjected to literary criticism

Probably because CalloShooty was never meant to be taken seriously after WaW. The equivalent would be having pic related as the standard of fantasy literature instead. You'd be pretty miffed too if something like LotR was getting tossed aside for that.

>>11661229
Shit pic wasn't attatched

A knight goes to fight a dragon
>Book
>Clearly depicts the knight's thought process, his capabilities, his struggles during the fight, and how he wins

>Movie
>Same thing minus the thought process but depicts it visually instead

>Video games
>[BATTLE START]
>Knight has attacked dragon for 15 damage!
>Dragon uses flight!
>Knight tries to attack dragon, knight misses!
>Dragon uses fire
>The knight has been set aflame!
>The knight takes 10 damage from being set on fire!

As you can see video games abstracting conflict is in its favor.

>>11661233
When did you last play vidya? 1988?

>>11661233
Not all video games are Final Fantasy. Dark Souls has a couple pretty exciting dragon fights in it.

Sure, you could argue that neither fight is exactly a triumph in storytelling, but neither is a dragon battle in books or movies nowadays: it's done to death. Might as well make you do it yourself and actually burn a couple times before you git gud.

>>11661233
>Clearly depicts the knight's thought process, his capabilities, his struggles during the fight, and how he wins
In Dragon Age Origins all of this happens.

>>11661244
No, that applies to turn based rpgs nowadays too.

>>11661250
Yeah, it's pretty tense when you fight a giant dragon that could easily kill you but fights in the most easy to exploit way possible because vidya game.

>>11661256
No, I do remember your arbitrary stats having to be larger than the arbitrary stats of your enemies.

>>11661281
>using turn based rpgs as an example
When did you last play vidya? 1988?

>>11661281
Either way, you're being pretty anal about this. There's absolutely no reason a video game couldn't do the same storytelling bits movies and books do, just as well as they do.

>>11661281
>Dark Souls
>enemy fights in the most easy to exploit way possible because vidya game.
You aren't really selling yourself as an expert

>>11661204
Okays so basically what happened was a former MLB pitcher started a game company because he really liked World of Warcraft and wanted to make a WoW killer. He got several hundred million dollars in investment from the state of Rhode Islandr, at a time when the state was looking to boost it's tech sector. He moved the company to the state, but eventually the money ran out and they had to rework what they had into a okay single-player action game that sold well but wasn't enough to save the studio, which shut down after it bounced a $1.25 million loan repayment check to the state. Ultimately Rhode Islanders were stuck paying off the $75m deficit that was left over with their taxes, and the game is now owned by the State of Rhode Island.

>>11661281
>Clearly depicts the knight's thought process,
The player character can express fear, fearlessness or greed on his path to fighting the arch dragon
>his capabilities
The player character is one of a handful of people able to sense the dragon's minions, immune to a disease they cause and is only able to defeat the dragon through some blood shit that tricks it
>his struggles during the fight
this will vary depending on the player character
>how he wins
B A L L I S T A

>>11661289
Kill me

>>11661233
Yo I heard you talking shit.

>>11661306
Not a counterargument.

>>11661300
That's hilarious.

>>11661313
and?

>>11661306
Come on nigga. This is lit not fucking /v. Put some effort into it instead of those wimpy one liners.

>>11661287
It applies to other genres too. A lot of the nuances of creating conflict in stories is lost when it comes to video games due to their limitations.

>>11661289
You're right, because video games at their "best" are just poor excuses for movies and books anyway. What a worthwhile medium for storytelling when its main aspect is a detriment/irrelevant to it telling a story.

>>11661293
Expert of what? Video games are limited in what they can do, contrary to popular belief. Just look:
>Book
>Protag has to fight a knight
>Tries to roll behind him and stab him
>Knight reacts accordingly

>VidyaGaem
>Protag does that
>Cut to animation of protag stabbing knight in the back that he's invincible during and the knight cannot escape because the game was designed that way

>>11661305
More like
>Player controlled puppet expresses emotions in a cutscene but in gameplay land they're as fearless as ever
>Player controlled puppet abuses a game mechanic
>Player controlled puppet then goes to conveniently placed ballista that he doesn't know how to operate and wins

>>11661233
The storytelling in games are never focused on the fight itself, it's there for the mood, setting and plain old fun. It's the same for movies and books, and just as with movies and books there are examples void of a plot that focus on the fights and nothing else.

>>11661327
>video games at their "best" are just poor excuses for movies and books anyway
>its main aspect is a detriment/irrelevant to it telling a story
Quite wrong. At their best, inserting you to the story's events can make it all the more gripping, when these things are happening to you and not to some guy you can't really personally connect to. Sure, sometimes it falls flat and the two aspects don't mesh up, but just as well a book or a movie can completely fuck up its character development and fail to have you be invested at it. Horror games and other such sneaky things are often legitimately tense.

And that's not even going to the few games where the story and the gameplay legitimately cross and lift both to greater heights than they could single-handedly go. It's happened before, and I believe it will happen again.

>>11661316
I like to imagine there's a little counter somewhere in the State Department of Revenue offices that goes up whenever somebody buys the game on Steam.

>>11661354
No reason the puppet has to be as fearless as ever in storytelling. It just mostly is, because video game writing is generally crock.

>>11661375
Including a little ding sound?

>>11661354
>>Player controlled puppet expresses emotions in a cutscene
WRONG
>>Player controlled puppet then goes to conveniently placed ballista
A ballista mounted on a castle tower sure is convenient huh? Who would think of putting one there?

>>11661359
Thanks for proving my point. Gameplay in video games only exists you to get you from one cutscene to the next and that's it. If you play video games for story (I hope not) you're better off just watching a compilation of everything on youtube. Even fucking Sanderfag can do a basic:
>Blah vs Blaa
>The two utilize their abilities to their fullest and react accordingly
>One defeats the other due to superior strategy and strength

Meanwhile if his shit were video games
>lol dude I just stunlocked Szeth during the bossfight on Kaladin's route guy didn't even move a frame

Which one has more impact storywise?

This is the worst thread in this general's history

>>11661393
It's close

>>11661361
>inserting you to the story's events can make it all the more gripping

And all the more for taking away the protagonist's urgency when it's you making deciding what they do.

>Horror games and other such sneaky things are often legitimately tense.

For gameplay reasons, not story ones.

>And that's not even going to the few games where the story and the gameplay legitimately cross and lift both to greater heights than they could single-handedly go

Let me guess, dogshit from Yoko Taro and "meta" dogshit like Undertale?

>>11661381
>WRONG
Elaborate.

>A ballista mounted on a castle tower sure is convenient huh? Who would think of putting one there?

When the dragon destoryed fucking everything except said ballista tower, yes it sure fucking is.

>>11661407
>When the dragon destoryed fucking everything except said ballista tower, yes it sure fucking is.
It destroyed the Ballista tower I was using too though.
> destoryed fucking everything except said ballista tower
Not true

>>11661327
>A lot of the nuances of creating conflict in stories is lost when it comes to video games due to their limitations.
And just as much nuances in video games cannot be replicated in books without turning it into a snoozefest.

>>11661401
>And all the more for taking away the protagonist's urgency when it's you making deciding what they do.
It's often urgent in gameplay too.

>For gameplay reasons, not story ones.
You don't understand that the two become one. The gameplay creates its own story.

>Let me guess, dogshit from Yoko Taro and "meta" dogshit like Undertale?
I haven't played Yoko Taro, but yes, Undertale is one of them. It does get you legitimately involved, in a way that I think is more than just "meta dogshit": I do think you should try and play it yourself to see.

There's also Dark Souls and the new Doom, which essentially let you enjoy as much of the story as you want, with audiologs or watching the scenery or what have you. Traditional story mediums would instead force you through one route, whether by needless exposition or by leaving things blank when they should be told: it could do either one of those things fine, I suppose, but it could also botch them, and you certainly couldn't pick and choose which one you'd like to go with yourself.

>>11661426
Why would you want a book to emulate a video game? That's just silly.

>>11661438
Why would you think video games can never have nuance? That's also silly.

>>11661448
Different anon, sorry.

>>11661426
Good thing those nuances aren't needed to tell a story and no one picks up a book expecting to play it.

>>11661428
>in gameplay
And gameplay doesn't matter when it comes to the actual story of 99% of video games. My case and point.

>You don't understand that the two become one. The gameplay creates its own story.

No, the gameplay is you playing the game and that's it. They don't become one, they exist in their own universe. That's why Nathan Drake can get shot 500 times in gameplay and murder hundreds of armed guard but in cutsceneland he can barely handle a few of them on his own.

>I do think you should try and play it yourself to see.
I did. It's a gimmicky game through and through that's praised for its "shocking twists" and cardboard cut out easy to meme characters.

> essentially let you enjoy as much of the story as you want

Lore is not the kind of story I'm talking about, stop being obtuse.

>Traditional story mediums would instead force you through one route

And that one route tells a better story than the 5 or 100 you get from a video g- sorry, visual novel, because most video games don't do that shit. And visual novels are all fucking garbage by the way, but they're another story entirely.

>>11661448
I already explained it to you. Conflict that's to be resolved via gameplay is limited in how nuanced said conflict can be from a storytelling standpoint because it's tied to the limitations of gameplay.

>>11659336
is peter f hamilton any good?

>>11661481
>And gameplay doesn't matter when it comes to the actual story of 99% of video games. My case and point.
So you yourself admit there's 1% that proves you wrong.

>No, the gameplay is you playing the game and that's it. They don't become one, they exist in their own universe.
It depends on the game.

>It's a gimmicky game through and through that's praised for its "shocking twists" and cardboard cut out easy to meme characters.
I was talking about neither the twists nor the meme characters in this debate, and have been bringing up entirely different merits of the game. Obviously you have missed them, though - but I can't blame you, since they don't make for very good memes and are therefore easily forgotten.

>Lore is not the kind of story I'm talking about, stop being obtuse.
What's "story" and what's "lore"? Books have a bunch of needless exposition too.

>And that one route tells a better story than the 5 or 100 you get from a video g- sorry, visual novel, because most video games don't do that shit. And visual novels are all fucking garbage by the way, but they're another story entirely.
You getting to decide yourself where the story goes is often meaningful in itself. In books and movies, the main character often does stupid shit: you won't need to.

>Conflict that's to be resolved via gameplay is limited in how nuanced said conflict can be from a storytelling standpoint because it's tied to the limitations of gameplay.
Gameplay has no intrinsic limitations. You talk about jRPGs and other stupid shit, but none of those need to be a thing: a good writer can remove them all and instead have the gameplay support the story.

What are you cute autists arguing about today?

>>11661504
He's pulpy, not literary, and more in the science-fantasy end of the spectrum rather than hard scifi, so if you're looking for a light and fun read painted with a big brush and most of the time juggling a lot of plot threads, he can be good, but he's not the most consistent in quality between his works from what I've read. I'd say Commonwealth Saga is pretty great as far as space operas go, whereas The Reality Dysfunction was a slog of unnecessary sex scenes and shit dotted with occasional flashes of his better stuff. Great North Road was pretty good too, but it's very heavy on police procedural. Your mileage may vary, of course.

I'd recommend starting here.

>>11659420
I just re-read it. It's still pretty damn fresh. Considering when it came out, it's astonishingly prescient in many ways.

The vision of technology he presents doesn't really feel 'dated' even if it doesn't immediately resemble what we have today. It actually works quite well because he renders cyberspace in a strongly visual way and it still works metaphorically.

IMO just read it. It's essential and still pretty damn fun.

>>11661481
>visual novels are all fucking garbage
*blocks your path*

>>11659420
>I'm a STEM major
If what you're trying to convey is that you're an autist who wants his sci-fi as scientifically plausible and thought out as possible, you're not going to have a good time with Neuromancer and should go with something by Greg Egan instead. Gibson writes the better books tho'.

>>11661517
>So you yourself admit there's 1% that proves you wrong.
Not really. I just said 99% because I knew you'd get anal and cry that I dare claim all video games are like that.

>It depends on the game.
It really doesn't.

>I was talking about neither the twists nor the meme characters in this debate
You brought up how UT was so great and I countered that by explaining it's a game that's entirely novelty and nothing more than what people who like it praise it for.

>What's "story" and what's "lore"? Books have a bunch of needless exposition too.
Story, as in the events that occur during the course of the book. Lore are the events that happened prior in the story's setting. Exposition is just a means to deliver either. Why the fuck do I have to explain this to you?

>You getting to decide yourself where the story goes is often meaningful in itself.
>the main character often does stupid shit: you won't need to.
Yes, I do love it when the protagonist has no urgency of their own.

>Gameplay has no intrinsic limitations.
It most certainly does.

>a good writer can remove them all and instead have the gameplay support the story
More platitude-esque nonsense that you won't elaborate on that means fucking nothing. How will gameplay "support the story"?

question: I've got two characters who are effectively steampunk technopaths: one specializes in time and the other in space

the time guy is easy. He can control gears and springs with his mind and create watches so good they can control time

the space guy is what I'm having trouble with. What would he control? part of me thinks it should be compasses and gyroscopes, while another thinks it should be lenses and mirrors, and a third is telling me both of those are retarded

Mirrors and lenses are probably better for portals, but even then I'm still fucking iffy

>>11661600
>I just said 99% because I knew you'd get anal and cry that I dare claim all video games are like that.
But you're still admitting that there can be exceptions.

>It really doesn't.
It does. Having to run away from monsters in horror games is making your own story, too. Sneaking around in Thief is making your own story. Some games even have choices that do matter on where the story goes. You have to do these things yourself. You have to get involved, in a way that simply turning the page won't be enough for. This will make you vastly more invested in the events and in the story.

>You brought up how UT was so great and I countered that by explaining it's a game that's entirely novelty and nothing more than what people who like it praise it for.
So you don't like Undertale. I get that. It doesn't make your stance on the game any objective, nor is enough to debunk its story merits.

>Why the fuck do I have to explain this to you?
So that we both know where we're going in the debate. It's sometimes difficult to establish these things even with obvious stuff.
Sometimes you need to know the lore in literature or films. Sometimes you don't need to know it in video games, but you can choose to have a look at it anyway. And sometimes that lore is fucking boring, but the films and books force you to go through it anyway, where many video games won't force you to. This is to their merit.

>Yes, I do love it when the protagonist has no urgency of their own.
Timed missions.

>It most certainly does.
Such as? Anything you've brought up so far can be, and has been, done away with.

>How will gameplay "support the story"?
I could use Undertale as an example, and the way its battles have entirely different gameplay mechanics, but I have a feeling you're going to reject that again because you didn't like the game.
Let's take a jRPG example, since you like those so much. In one game, one of the antagonists has a crush on one of your characters, and will therefore avoid hurting her in battle.

Never really see Codex Alera mentioned on here. Have any of you read it? What did you think?

>>11661608
make him schizophrenic and do both

>>11661681
no

Taking a break from WoT and want to read something different, thinking of this, King of Ashes by Raymond E. Feist or Empress by Karen Miller. Thoughts?

>>11661307
>Journeyman Project
my motherfuckin nigga

>>11661669
>But you're still admitting that there can be exceptions.
can is not is.

>Having to run away from monsters in horror games is making your own story, too.
No, that's you playing a game.

>It doesn't make your stance on the game any objective, nor is enough to debunk its story merits.
If you have to resort to "that's just your opinion, man" in an argument please reevaluate yourself

>Sometimes you need to know the lore in literature or films. Sometimes you don't need to know it in video games
And vice versa.

>but the films and books force you to go through it anyway,
Yeah, shitty ones. The good ones tell you what's important about the setting and that's that. Unlike in video games where important aspect of things are buried under subsections of in game encyclopedias and database
entries.

>Timed missions.
OH MAN!

>Such as? Anything you've brought up so far can be, and has been, done away with.
I already explained it. I'm not going to type it all out again.

>since you like those so much
I actually think they're a dogshit genre.

>In one game, one of the antagonists has a crush on one of your characters, and will therefore avoid hurting her in battle.
And in another game you can buy items that bring the dead back to life for dirt cheap, but no one in cutsceneland or dialogueville seems to acknowledge the existence of these things.

>>11661794
>No, that's you playing a game.
I did say a bit more than that - define my argument a little - but sure, ignore all of that. It's not convenient for your argument anyway.

>If you have to resort to "that's just your opinion, man" in an argument please reevaluate yourself
That's what this whole thing's been about: you being stubborn about video games not being able to do good stories, and then arbitrarily debunking anything I bring up. Visual novels and "meta dogshit" are automatically shite because you say they are, for instance, and anything I say is wrong just because.

> Unlike in video games where important aspect of things are buried under subsections of in game encyclopedias and database
entries.
Yeah, shitty ones. The good ones tell you what's important through gameplay. For instance, Shovel Knight's relationship with the "damsel in distress", and just how well they work together and how poorly they can handle themselves by comparison while alone.

>OH MAN!
Not an argument.

>I already explained it. I'm not going to type it all out again.
What, the bit about being scared of facing the dragon, only to boldly and heroically fight them as soon as battle starts?
There's a guy in Final Fantasy IV who can hide in battle, and starts to do it automatically if his health is low. Now what?

>I actually think they're a dogshit genre.
I was being sarcastic.

>And in another game you can buy items that bring the dead back to life for dirt cheap, but no one in cutsceneland or dialogueville seems to acknowledge the existence of these things.
Wrong once again. In more than one game they explicitly try these things in the event of a plotline death, only for it to not work. Usually, "dead" is in fact expicitly worded as "knocked out" or something similar.

>protagonists first name is Brogan

>>11661854
At least it's not Guybrush.

>>11661854
At least it's not Hiro.

>>11661863
>At least it's not Hiro.
You have a problem with our Overlord and Savior?

>>11661905
Stop watching anime.

>>11661824
>I did say a bit more than that - define my argument a little - but sure, ignore all of that. It's not convenient for your argument anyway.
I read the rest of what you said, and it amounts to that.

> you being stubborn about video games not being able to do good stories
No, you're being asshurt someone won't agree with you while not being able to present anything convincing.

>Yeah, shitty ones.
Glad you understood the mutuality of what you said.

>Not an argument.
There's no urgency in timed missions because at the end of it all, it's YOU controlling them.

>There's a guy in Final Fantasy IV who can hide in battle, and starts to do it automatically if his health is low. Now what?
What now? That you gave one example to counter one point I made? Good job ignoring the main point I was making, that gameplay abstracted the fight between the two causing it to have less impact than what it normally did. I also made an an example of how stupid a Sanderfag story would be when translated to video games (more stupid than they already are).

>I was being sarcastic.
Which doesn't translate well though blahblah

>only for it to not work
Oh yeah, when they make up bullshit that doesn't make any sense to give the appearance there's not a gaping plothole? Amazing.

>>11661946
>I read the rest of what you said, and it amounts to that.
Would "agree to disagree" sound better than "Well, that's just your opinion man"? Because that's about where it's all starting to come down to. And I'd really like to go to sleep.

>No, you're being asshurt someone won't agree with you while not being able to present anything convincing.
I don't think you're being that convincing either.
I'm also not all that asshurt, for the record, but you're free to believe what you like.

>Glad you understood the mutuality of what you said.
I did make an example of a non-shitty gameplay exposition, but I guess we're going to just ignore stuff again?

>There's no urgency in timed missions because at the end of it all, it's YOU controlling them.
There is, because if you're not fast enough you fail.

>That you gave one example to counter one point I made?
Feel free to keep making examples overnight. I'll counter every single one of them once I wake up.

>gameplay abstracted the fight between the two causing it to have less impact than what it normally did
It can actually have more impact, for reasons I've already stated and that you've then gleefully ignored without presenting any remotely convincing reason to do it.

>Oh yeah, when they make up bullshit that doesn't make any sense to give the appearance there's not a gaping plothole? Amazing.
It does in fact say "knocked out" in the menu screen, or "wounded", or such, rather than "fucking dead". It's pretty explicit that Phoenix Downs and Life spells and what have you can't actually cure real death, nor has it ever happened in a story. If you continue to believe otherwise, then that's on you rather than on the games.

Get a room already.

>>11661934
>Stop watching anime.
>Hiroyuki Nishimura is anime
Okay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFeAaM583LA

>>11661993
Sounds like anime to me

>>11661300
top kek. what the hell? why would any state put millions into the investment for a video game? dont they have housing or roads to build or something? lmao the "tech" guys working for rhode island probably did this.

>>11661996
Everyone involved with fantasy either looks like, sounds like or is a massive faggot.
With the sole exception Guy Gavriel Kay.

>>11661976
>And I'd really like to go to sleep.
Nighty night.

>>11659450
I don't read books written by women, they're all guaranteed trash and have a agenda behind the story.

>>11662017
He looks like a fucking fat gnome with a bad hairdo and beard.

>>11661171
I know you're just memeing but I still feel the need to point out David Cage is an uber hack. His dialogue is laughable, his plots are cliche and contrived, and he can't write believable characters or genuine emotion. If he was booted out of the video game industry and thrown into the film industry he would be making direct-to-video thrillers that would get panned by the handful of critics who would watch them. It says a lot about the quality of video game storytelling that he's frequently praised as one of the best writers in the industry.

>>11659450
>How many Jemisin novels have you read, /sffg/?


i tried to read the hundred thousand kingdoms and couldn't get past the first few chapters, with The Fifth Season I only got past the intro and 1st chapter.

something about the way she writes that just rubs me the wrong way.

>>11662051
There are some pretty good pre-1960 female authors though. For instance, Shirley Jackson's The Haunting of Hill House is absolutely essential if you enjoy Gothic horror.

what do you think Jasnah's pussy taste like?

>>11662150
Is her prose bad? Is she smug or preachy?

>>11662183
i wouldn't call it horrible, just boring sprinkled with the narrator breaking the mood and basically addressing the reader directly. at least the few chapters of her work I've read.

>>11662010
Job creation, the RI government was trying to build their tech industry at the time, and as part of the deal the studio moved to the state and had to hire a bunch of locals, with the expectation that they would eventually leave the studio and start their own Rhode Island based tech companies. Of course obviously, that didn't work out. I think the most notable survivor of the collapse of 38 Studios was that a few of their writers ended up at DONTNOD and worked on Life Is Strange afterwards.

I think part of it was the "star appeal" of Mr. Famous Baseball Man too. Old guys in politics don't really care or understand tech, but they certainly understand ~~SPORTS HEROES~~

Read this a few weeks ago. Really enjoyed it, although the final 5th was very awkward and rushed. Anyone got any recommendations? Considering Baxter's Xeelee Series, next.

>>11659543
>I'd guess they are well written from people's reaction
From whose reaction? The "consensus" (I use that term very lightly) is that H.P.'s ideas are great but his prose are pretty awful.

t. someone who had to slog through At the Mountains of Madness and completely agrees

>>11662078
Not at all true.

>>11662145
>he's frequently praised as one of the best writers in the industry.
He’s not though?

>>11662253
Hey Patrick, whatcha doing?!

>>11659450
>>11659533
>>11659569

Is this the birth of an epic new meme?

>>11662173
Milky coins and salt.

Last thread I asked for a rec but the thread was ending and I wanted to know if there was anything else that may fit. I am already reading what was recommended. My post was the following:

>Any comfy space adventures with crew book? It's been a while since I've read one that wasn't mindless shooting left and right the whole book. I don't mind some shooting, but it gets tiring if there's no downtime in between. Besides, if a crew gets into that much dangerous situations (military aside), then they probably aren't very smart to begin with. I'd rather have some adventuring and exploring instead.

>>11662145
He's also a total creep and it's surprising he hasn't been outed by the MeToo crowd. I think the only reason Ellen Page didn't sue him was because Sony gave her a bunch of hush money.

>>11662261
>Game developer Warren Spector described Cage as one of the best storytellers in the business, calling him a genius.

>>11662244
His ideas are just sort of banal though.
>spookyass shit man cannot know
>narrator is actually a zombie?
>man cannot know 2: ecludian boogaloo
>irish mulatto: 3spooky4newengland

How bad would reading Mona Lisa Overdrive by itself really be?

>>11662296
Read The Warrior's Apprentice

>>11661560
That's not a VN, that's a well-written RPG

>>11659450
Man. The Puppies kind of ruined everything.

>check audible fantasy section
>see absolutely nothing interesting

>>11662714
I enjoyed Scott Mayers magic 2.0 as something to listen to and get a laugh out of while at work. After book 2 it gets a bit tired though.

>>11662834
i've settled for some german fantasy series called Ulldart
i hope it's good

>>11662337
I'll second this, the Vorkosigan saga is easily some of the best, if not the best, character driven scifi out there.

Anybody got thoughts on the Deathstalker series? Looking for something new and it sounds neat.

>>11662300
>Warren Spector
Who?

>>11662051
>*blocks your path*

>>11662051
>>11663347
>*a new challenger approaches*

>>11662313
Gibson has some nice prose in Mona Lisa Overdrive but without knowing who Molly and Bobby are, the already weak plot would lose more depth

>>11662296
I mean you could read some Star Trek novels or go even more retro with th Lensman series

>>11662051
Read Ursula K. Le Guin or Ancillary Justice you pleb

>>11663421
Make me

>>11663481
Oh ill makw you. Ill make you my slave bitch. I’ll take everything you own, a million dollar’s worth, and make you work 6 months for no pay. Ill turn you into my personall bitch while i stuff my fat face with lobsters wvery wvening and force you to watch.

Don’t believe me? Im a literal nazi. I’d rip away the tenure and pensions of every leeching academic in this countey, from their crying, undeserving pussy hands. Lets see if that wouldn’t end this demented love fest centered on someone’s rape by demeted, decrepit drooling charlatans and theifs.

>>11663495
Lighten up Francis.

>>11659358
>check warosu for "Soulcatcher", my favorite black company girl
>some autist has been spamming this for months now
You have a good taste anon, even if you go to autistic lengths.

>>11663509
Frankly, he's gotten me to disagree with him entirely because he feels like too much of an ass to agree with.

>>11663512
Maybe, to be sure Soulcatcher is a wasted waifu, I really didn't like books after the North (with few exceptions) and would rather had Croaker shack up with her then the Lady. Only fanfics are left to save this.

>>11663521
Also, I heard that there will be tv series for these books. I doubt it's going to be any good though.

>>11663560
It’s going to be on the sci-if channel with a 10 pound budget.

>>11663421
>Ancillary Justice

Are there any books set in medieval or ancient fantasy setting (preferably in notEurope) that are relatively faithful to actual historical period they take inspiration from, despite having magic? Thanks for recommendations.

>>11663594
Of the top of my head I can only think of The Warlord Chronicles, it's set in Europe though.

I'd like to put out a warning;
sometimes (not this thread though) Malazan, Book of the Fallen will be shilled by some dudes, but the truth is, it just straight up sucks after the very first book ( Gardens of the Moon ) and degenerates into ever more splintering plotthreads with less and less and less relevance to anything, culminating in the prequel books Forge of Darkness and Fall of Light - wherein the first book has basically nothing happening and the second just expands on secondary and tertiary characters from the first; meanwhile failing to retrospectively craft any kind of interesting narrative concerning the civil war and its causes;

its even worse than the original books, because in the original books scope is usually ground-level footsoldiers for most practical purposes, divorced from the absurdity of imperial administration and politics, while the prequels delve DEEPLY into the people making actual decisions - and all of them are irrationally stupid and retarded

do not waste your time reading those 10+ books.

>>11663780
Thank you for the warning. After several promptings on various threads I've been wondering whether I should give the series another chance, in spite of the first book having been so unbearable.

I'm glad to hear that I might not have to do this after all.

>>11663804
you're welcome, this is what I did too, having been prompted here I gave gardens of the moon a chance and found it ... say 3 / 10 barely okay-ish; but its downhill from there

>>11663780
>it just straight up sucks after the very first book
I dont necessarily agree with that, i read first 5 books and there was some good stuff in all of them... especially the endings were usually satisfying and meaningful with interesting revelations. Unnfortunately 80% of the books were meaningless filler that simply serve to "pad up" future events in an attempt to make them super epic. Most characters are also relatively poorly written.

TLDR: They dont particularly suck, but you miss very little value entertainment by skipping the entire series. Its a massive time investment with very little returns.

>>11663780
>>11663893
What books would you recommend my man?

>>11662661
Cringe.

>>11663421
>Then there are the politicized “message” stories. Thus, last year’s Best Novel Hugo went to “Ancillary Justice” by Ann Leckie, whose protagonist belongs to a futuristic human civilization with no concept of gender distinctions and with “she” as the universal pronoun.

Wow.

>>11663992
I want off this wild ride

>>11661231
That cover art is fucking atrocious.

>>11659336
>tfw re-treat to webnovels to get off this social justice warrior ride
>Martial asura world; mc literally decides that rape is bad all of a sudden despite the maidens being ripe for the taking
>heavenly jewel; female character who wants to prove that women can be generals too (ironically in a world where people cultivate mountain destroying powers) doesn't get dicked into a housewife.

>>11661481
Mass Effect 3 kind of ended the delusion of player-controlled stories.

>>11664144
Problem with player-controlled stories is that with each meaningful choice, you'll essentially have to rewrite the entire rest of the game. That's why it can only be done with indie games and even then only with very short and uncomplicated ones, such as Stanley Parable.

It's a nice idea, but the execution is impossible.

>>11659336
in the next thread, stop fucking using > in front of the links!

>>11664147
this is why I prefer games that don't pretend: witcher. and games that give you freedom of movement and strategy instead, like deus ex etc.

>>11659088
Yeah and in my opinion Fforde's latest book is really fucking good. Like PKD tier good in parts.

>actually gets better after 2700+ chapter

>>11664226
Good enough to make it worth slogging through all those chapters in the first place?

>>11664226
>mfw it actually did.

>>11664247
I want to say yes because I enjoy it but...

>ridiculous amounts of fat characters, and not just in the "fat Noble" trope
>Multiple characters with fat fetishes, including main characters (Tehol Beddict lusting after Rucket's fat illusion)
>Often uses weird adjectives to describe many things as too big(corpulent, obese, etc.)
>Seems to focus more on describing the physical attributes of fat characters
>That weird character arc endinf where one woman ends up fat, lazy, and having constant sex in a temple
Does anybody esle suspect Steven Erikson has a fat fetish?
or am I just projecting

>>11661680
I've read it and while it is nothing noteworthy it's a fun coming of age story. The first 3 books where the protagonist is just a hard-working sonuvabitch outsmarting everyone else without magic are noticeably better than the latter 3. Love interest is great and was a major reason I kept going through all 6 books. Don't expect anything groundbreaking and enjoy the ride.

>>11664354
Back in the medieval times, being fat was a sign of wealth and prospetity: it was seen as a good thing. Maybe his books just reflect that.

>>11662261
Read some of the reviews of his games.

>>11664376
meme

What are some of the most transparent political-agenda-pushing books in science fiction and fantasy?

It doesn't matter which side they push, how popular the book is, or how acclaimed it is. I'm just in this weird mood to read something like that.
Any recs?

>>11664376
Not sure about middle ages, but Renaissance art is full of plump women. Not morbidly obese mind you.

>>11664449
Sword of Truth.

>>11664464
couldnt read past the bdsm nuns.

>>11664476
It gets into the agenda-pushing a couple books into it. If you can endure until then, you're in for a treat.

>>11659389
What the fuck is a Hugo Award?

>>11664583
Sci-fi award that was established in the 1950s. For decades it brought exposure to great works of sci-fi but it started to go downhill in the 1990s and now it's completely driven by agenda. Back in 1967 the Hugos gave an award to The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, an openly libertarian novel. If The Moon is a Harsh Mistress were released today it would get ignored by the Hugos since it doesn't push the ideologies that the Hugos endorse.

>>11664449
>the most transparent political-agenda-pushing books in science fiction and fantasy?
Just check the Hugo Award winners in the last, say, 5 years.

>>11664376
Like I said though, it's every class of character, not just the nobles

>>11664449
The Malazan books get pretty anti-capitalist in books 5 through 7

Anyone know any fantasy with a Classical Greece
backdrop rather than typical medieval Europe?

>>11664756
The Odyssey by Homer

>read Consider Phlebas
>discover based Idirans lost to the AI dominated culture
I don't want to read anymore culture novels.

>>11664774
>historical documents
>fantasy

>>11664776
Don't cut yourself on that edge

>>11664781
I'm not edgy, Horza was right, their side was on the right.

>>11663347
If you decouple it from the time in your life when you read it, you'll realize it's not that good. It's a fun read, but you won't lose much by skipping it.

Why does this get so much shit on here? Pure kino.

>>11663914
Yeah. That's a lot of what they wrote.

>>11665005
Are you talking about the nominees or the puppies?
It's getting hard to tell.

>>11665030
Honestly it could be both, but the people behind the puppies deserve the label much more.

I am not some high brow reader of literature, I love Jon Ringo, diatribes and all, but the fact that it all started over a guy getting mad his jerk off, operators operating novel didn't win was retarded. So now you have very weak winners showing, like that godawful short story that won this year.

>>11664804
It's good. Not the best, but good.

Am I missing something with 1984?

I've read it three times now, and while I think it's good it's nothing, nothing close to the hype. It's just a fairly clunky cliche dytopian thriller with a dark ending.

Was it just an influential book in its day? Is the books relative timelessness and fact it can still apply today? Are the book and I suffering from the Seinfeld effect, is 1984 so genre-defining that I've already gorged myself in it's ideas of a dytopian society?

>>11665154
Because you're reading it several decades after it came out without the sociopolitical climate of the time period on top of constantly hearing everyone praise it.

Well I just finished Rememberance of Earth's Past (Three Body trilogy) and I started a thread to discuss it but got zero traction.

Maybe here?

>>11665187
I'm down but wait until the next thread, this one's almost at the bump limit.

>>11665187
Obama is the best president in the history of our country and this is his favorite genre fiction also written by a POC so may I congratulate you on your great taste, good Sir!

>>11665062
I don't know what's worse - operators operating operationaly in space or gay nigger wizards trying to make someone's asshole act like a bag of holding.

>>11665187
This general is currently in the trolling mode (which surprisingly enough is not the default setting) so you won't get a proper reponse.

>>11665330
I wasn't trolling, I was very serious when I said video games are dogshit for story telling.

>>11665379
Of course you were, but this still isn't the right thread for that, or even the right board.

>>11664449
The Island of Doctor Moreau is a screed against animal vivisection. I mean it's not politically relevant now but back then it was a real hot button topic.

>>11664617
>If The Moon is a Harsh Mistress were released today it would get ignored by the Hugos since it doesn't push the ideologies that the Hugos endorse.

If TMiaHM was published today the puppies would whine about how it promotes white genocide, since it's about the racially integrated (most of the characters are described as being dark skinned) and tolerant anarchist society on the moon declaring independence from Earth and nuking the western powers with space rocks after their ambassadors are rebuffed and one is arrested in the American south for miscegenation, with Africa and China being the first countries to recognize Luna's independence.

>>11665330
>operators operating operationaly in space or gay nigger wizards trying to make someone's asshole act like a bag of holding.
The former because that's not actually what is wrong with the latter.

The latter, more than being too fucking special snowflake is just mediocre as all fuck.

>>11665409
Someone quoted the author of The Witcher who said the same thing and I agreed. Blame the asshurt babies that replied trying to defend UT and jrpgs as the peak of storytelling.

>>11665379
And the few ones that make a decent attempt at it (Gone Home, Stanley Parable) get decried as being "not real video games"

>>11665433
>Blame the asshurt babies that replied trying to defend UT and jrpgs as the peak of storytelling.
The only one you can blame is yourself. You can do nothing to influence the decisions of other people, but you yourself could've stopped at any time. It takes two to tango.

>>11665446
Stanley Parable may not be much of a game, but it does make for a pretty neat story that draws from the inherent possibilities of interactive storytelling. You could say that a book can make one story that's better than any of what Stanley Parable brings on the table, but that one story about some office worker named Stanley would probably have been shit.

>>11665446
Because the only way their "stories" work is by making the most barebones video "game" ever. Pressing forward and walking around.

>>11665447
>It takes two to tango
Stop spouting aphorisms from poor intercity black public schools, Jemisin.

>>11665451
>Stop spouting aphorisms from poor intercity black public schools, Jemisin.
Are you going to say I'm wrong?

Did you actually expect to change someone's mind? On the internet? Did you actually think you barricading yourself and flinging shit at some other asshole in his own bunker was going to change anything at all? Did you really consider such pointless activity the best possible way you could have spent an evening?

>>11665187
Fucking loved it my man
Started off super grounded and ended up being off the fucking rails

>>11665461
>Did you actually expect to change someone's mind?
I don't know, maybe you should practice what you're preaching, Creflo.

>>11665451
>not TRUE blideo blame!

>>11665464
I'm just saying, whether you're right or wrong is pretty irrelevant now: you come across as a kind of a douche. Even now, with the argument long gone, you took the first opportunity to start screaming about it again:
>"This whole thread's a trollfest"
>"I WAS RIGHT I WAS RIIIIIIIGHT!"
even though no one gives a shit. You're basically trying to start an argument right out of fucking nowhere, and out of nothing whatsoever.

I'll be happy to practice what I preach, because I know that I indeed can't influence any other's behavior - but I would still like to kindly ask you to take into consideration what I said and not start this again in another thread. I'd like to maybe discuss books this time.

All right?

>>11665475
Great argument. I never said they weren't games, I said they were bare-bone ones.

>>11665484
>Bring up long gone argument again with misconceptions
>Get corrected of what actually occurred
>DUDE IT'S YOUR FAULT THIS IS HAPPENING AGAIN

>>11665452

NUDE THREAD

>>11665490
>There was a lot of trolling in this thread
>I WASN'T TROLLING, I MEANT WHAT I SAID, VIBEO GAME SHIT BLABLAGBRGHBLGHGHGH
>Uh, okay...?
>VIIIIIIIDEO GAAAAAAAAAMES SHIT SHOTOTOSTORIES
>Are you having a stroke?

>>11665490
Great, but that wasn't even me.

>>11665154
It is fairly modiocre imo, I wouldn't say it's a concept that has been done to death but rather that what it is warning about is entirely natural and well known to our generation. We live in a world where we take for granted that the security agencies have about as much insight as was predicted in 1984, even your mom has access to a fair amount of it thanks to google and facebook.

If the book is to have any meaning today I would want it to be directly tied to a healthy discussion about the history of privacy and how and when we value it. It's basically just meaningful as a conversation starter.

>>11665927
No they don't you hysteric little fag.

>>11666232
Not OP, but I suppose you can choose either direction if you're feeling perverse. It's generally preferred that the ordering be correct, and it was not in this case.

>>11665412
True but it would also piss off the ideologues who run the Hugos. It would pretty much piss off everyone.