/lit/ - Literature

>>11613067
The fatalistic way of viewing things cannot be refuted; this is part of its ineluctable charm.
>counter

A man's character is fate.

I neither believe nor do not believe as the truth to fatalism is yet to be known.

>>11613067
If fate is real then everything must be predetermined

The personification? Yes. The abstract concept? No.

>>11614262
What does that even mean

I think free will is real but that everything is probabilistic and predictable to a near certain degree. I think people are creatures of conditioning, and that most present events are a consequence of the past. For instance, place a person in a scenario and he acts a certain way. Put that person back into the past in the same scenario(this is a hypothetical) erase his knowledge of events and he will act that same way.

>>11614309
If you're present self is a product of the past, then wouldn't that prove fate? It was predetermined that your decisions would lead up to this point, and even those decisions were bound to happen because of your predispositions interacting with your environment. I think your example proves shows that, but if it were true then does free will exist?

>>11614252
Wrong, go re-read the Greeks

>>11615205
If you are well-read on the topic then why dont you explain it?

>>11614309
That's a contradiction

>>11615205
The Greeks say the same. Aristotle's logical fatalism holds that every proposition must have a bivalent truth value - true or false, including propositions about the future. No escape

>>11614309
>Put that person back into the past in the same scenario(this is a hypothetical) erase his knowledge of events and he will act that same way.
I highly disagree.

>>11613067
I believe that what happens is the only thing that would ever happen

>>11615998
Its true though, all of your decisions rely on perceptions, past experiences, intelligence, and environment. If this type of experiment happened then what would cause the person's decision to change?

>>11615992

Aristotle explicitly denies the fatalism implied by the naval battle argument my man. Reread De Interpretatione.

>>11613067
This is very /lit/-related.

>>11616008
>what would cause the person's decision to change?
Any number of random subconscious or conscious events that take place because of ??????

Since your hypothetical experiment isn't possible I'll give as close a realistic analogy as I can. I see fights break out sometimes on campus. My response to each fight has been different. Sometimes I just stand there and watch. Sometimes I whip my phone out and record. Sometimes I try and break it up. I don't have a preset response to every fight. Obviously there are several differentiating factors to take into account but I sincerely believe if you were to place me just before the same fight I wouldn't respond the same way each time.

Also how do you think a person would make a decision without moral implications in your example? I suppose you could argue "oh well a really good dude would always choose to break up the fight" in my example, but what if it wasn't a question of good? Imagine the decision you have to make was just one based on numbers, like having to choose between 3 doors to walk through, or 3 seats to sit in. Do you think you would pick the same door every time? What if it was 10 doors instead? 100 doors? I think
>perceptions, past experiences, intelligence, and environment.
Is only half the story when it comes to how the brain handles decision making.

>>11616077
But think about the first time you saw a fight on campus, everything that happened in your life led up to that reaction. Your conscious and subconscious arent random (albeit, they are whimsical), they are responses to input.

>>11616077
A person's mind is never truly random, we simply cannot think that way. Placing you with the same stream of thought into the exact same situation, with absolutely nothing changed, you would react identically every time. You react differently to different fights because your initial conditions and the conditions around you change each time.