/lit/ - Literature

>>11595994
>muh catholisism

>>11595994
>muh italian

>>11596007
>>11596032
>implying

>>11595994
Read that when I was 18 or 19 and I can’t remember a damn thing. Maybe I have the mind for it now but I certainly didn’t then.

>>11595994
is the Allen Mandelbaum translation good?

>>11596081
It's the most "scholarly" according to a chart that gets passed around. Get that or Ciardi or Hollander(I think?)

>>11595994
How the fuck did he do it?? Keeping the terza rima scheme consistent through all three books.

King James Bible.

>>11595994
It's certainly a contender along with pic related

>>11596124
I think the Ciardi version actually rhymes in a similar fashion as the poem, in a terza rima form (ABA, BCB, CDC, etc).

>>11596144
Which version should I get? 1922 or Gabler?

>>11596162
The 1922 because the Gabler version contains a lot of changes and some are questionable in regards to whether they align to Joyce's intentions

>>11596162
>>11596184
what aboot the everyman hardcover of Ulysses?

>>11596184
I've read he pulled out entire sentences out his ass. Shameful.

>>11595994
"The greatest intellectual geniuses in both ancient and modern times led continent lives, and there is yet to be recorded one individual who freely expended seminal fluid who ever amounted to anything. In most cases, individuals who have achieved have been forced by necessity to abstain from sexual indulgence, as Cervantes, who wrote Don Quixote while in prison, or Dante who wrote his Divine Comedy while in exile. Milton wrote "Paradise Lost" when blind and when he did not indulge in sex. Sir Isaac Newton, active in intellect until the age of 80, led a continent life from birth, and so did Leonardo da Vinci and Michelangelo, both of whom retained their creative genius [until] an advanced age"

Dante was truly ascended-tier.

>>11596124
Hollander is the most scholarly... Mandelbaum's is a meme

>>11596194
I'm not sure which version it is but if it isn't Gabler then go for it

>>11596081
It gets the job done, nothing fancy like Ciardi's.

>>11596194
It's not the Gabler one, so you're good to go.

>>11596144
Finnegans Wake is objectively better, Joyce rightly viewed it as his greatest achievement.

>>11596340
It's literally unreadable. Ulysses is his finest piece.

>>11596349
>It's literally unreadable

Most of it is not if you have read sufficient amount of secondary literature on Finnegans Wake

>>11596340
>>11596349
i don't think its reasonable comparing the two, each book had its aim, its purpose, a main idea to convey.
however, a guy that supposedly read and liked ulysses saying that FW is unreadable is pure retardation

>>11596399
>you can't disike this work if you like this other one.

>>11596340
>>11596355
I love FW immensely but it doesn't move me in the way Ulysses does, as much as I am in awe of it - it is without a doubt one of the most incredible things ever written, though

>>11596355
What secondary literature is *required* before trying to attempt reading Finnegans Wake for the first time? Joyce is the only bigboi who I'm kinda afraid of reading.

>>11596449
The only way of getting Finnegans Wake is to be James Joyce, really.

>>11596449
The New Science might enlighten you slightly to the structure - I enjoyed poring through with a guidebook (can't remember which) and the references and allusions being made. Perhaps read a few interpretations before hand so you can applies those to it, might make it easier. Enjoy the language

>>11596449
>you can use fweet which is the wiki for page by page annotations. I would suggest that over reading swift, vico, dante, milton, etc. unless you already want to. fw might inspire you to.

>>11596410
>disliking a work makes it unreadable
you are allowed to like or dislike whatever classic you want, no problem, but you can't just dismiss it by saying "it is unreadable"

>>11595994
>my crush is waiting for me in heaven
>my enemies are burning in hell
>my favourite poet is my best fren
>faints and gets up again
Is there a reason to read this man's fantasy story if one can not read Italian?

>>11596546
pleb

>>11596546
The imagery and the mystical weight behind it. It’s filled with surrealism and high fantasy in many places before those even existed as terms, done in a beautiful and elevated style, and also an allegory about the soul’s spiritual ascent. You have to look beyond the constant political allusions and seeming pettiness at times to appreciate the grandeur of it. Any great work could be reduced to posts like yours (which is part of what I hate about nu-/lit/ a lot, the lack of aesthetic appreciation of the greatest works of literature of all time; so much constant cynicism feels degrading).

>>11596135
Italian be-a like-a that

>>11596753
based

>>11596200
“I would argue that masturbation is the human animal's most important adaptation. The very cornerstone of our technological civilization. Our hands evolved to grip tools, all right—including our own. You see, thinkers, inventors, and scientists are usually geeks, and geeks have a harder time getting laid than anyone. Without the built-in sexual release valve provided by masturbation, it's doubtful that early humans would have ever mastered the secrets of fire or discovered the wheel. And you can bet that Galileo, Newton, and Einstein never would have made their discoveries if they hadn't first been able to clear their heads by slapping the salami (or "knocking a few protons off the old hydrogen atom"). The same goes for Marie Curie. Before she discovered radium, you can be certain she first discovered the little man in the canoe.”

Cline was truly degenerate-tier.

Someone explain to me why this book is so important

>>11596144
*BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAP*
Excuse me, sorry

>>11596863
God bugmen are so contemptible, pitiful, and laughable at once. They can’t fathom anything higher than them.

>>11597299
>why is the best poem ever written so important pls explain im dumb

>>11596449
John Bishop - Joyce’s Book of the Dark
James S. Atherton - The Books at the Wake
Roland McHugh - The Sigla of Finnegans Wake and Annotations to Finnegans Wake
William York Tindall - A Reader’s Guide to Finnegans Wake

Also, check out the following blogs:
http://www.fweet.org
https://johngordonfinnegan.weebly.com
http://fwannotated.blogspot.com/?m=1

>>11597447
>bugmen

You have to go back

>>11597299
It's very well written, was one of if not the first major work of it's time to be written in common Italian rather than the more scholarly Latin, which was unheard of at the time.
Besides being THE concept of hell that most others that aren't just "fire and demons" derive from, it's full of political statements relevant to the time.

I wouldn't call it the best ever for reasons I won't state in this post to save time, but it's doubtless up there.

>>11596753
>It’s filled with surrealism and high fantasy in many places
You're stretching it there.

>>11595994
This is not Faust by Goethe

>>11598457
Whats the best ever in your opinion?

>>11600436
Not the guy you were replying to—what's the point of picking a "best ever"? I mean, on what ground could you possibly say that an individual book is singlehandedly the best thing ever produced by western writers and poets?

>>11598449
Bugmen has been a /lit/ phrase for a while.

>>11596863
>Ernest Cline
His argument presupposes that it impossible to go without sexual release unless you are chronically horny but this is lie and shows such a profound ignorance that it reflects on his own lack of self-control. It's proof that he has not went more than a few days since puberty without masturbation/release because he defaults to sexual thoughts throughout the day or has arousing stimuli present.

The sex drive is a feedback mechanism contingent upon ΔFosB induction. The more you do it, the stronger the urge grows. This is why people who have actually achieved long periods of celibacy in adulthood have their sex drive actually decrease and they are less sex obsessed. I've gone months without masturbating and the clarity achieved from abstinence is liberating--- the mind no longer is polluted from random sexual thoughts compelling you to masturbate or seek out sex. Whenever I'm not leading a chaste life, I'll masturbate and it will satiate for 10 minutes at best and any stimuli or thoughts will incur arousal which invariably leads to release. I could do it probably do it 5 times a day if I were to let myself go. It is a constant source of distraction, something that leaves you tired and drained. It reinforces your sexual urges, not relinquishes them.

Lastly, there was no pornography videos then, there was no playboy. At worst, there might have been a lewd mural in someone's home but even that is stretching it. Without novel stimuli, masturbation gets very old quickly, especially if you are a high IQ person invested in the arts, invention or any sort of edification where you're not some drool just loafing around masturbating. "Geek" as he calls them. What an absurd, loser, wannabe "DUDE SCIENCE DUDE", that has a Rich and Morty tier outlook on life. This guy isn't just a bugman. He is THE bugman. A useless Skinnerian bugman that's a slave to his next release. He assumes it's impossible to go without and has proven that he exerts no autonomy over his own life. He is in a state of heteronomy doomed to be controlled by vile habit the rest of his life. Look at him. He is a poster child for Dr. von Gruber's observation that excessive sexual release harms development. A pig man whose pinnacle of existence amounts to getting off and stuffing his face.

>>11601825
blown the fuck out.

>>11596863
>“I would argue that obesity is the human animal's most important adaptation. The very cornerstone of our civilization. Our stomachs evolved to eat all right—including more than our fill. You see, thinkers, inventors, and scientists are usually fat, and geeks have a harder time loosing weight than anyone. Without the built-in fat storage provided by over-eating, it's doubtful that early humans would have ever mastered the secrets of fire or discovered the wheel or even not starved to death. And you can bet that Balzac, Churchill, and Daniel Lambert never would have made their discoveries if they hadn't first been able to clear their heads by scarfing down some salami (or "chomping some cheesecake"). The same goes for Gabourey Sidibe. Before she discovered acting, you can be certain she first discovered the "little pillsbury doughboy"

>>11601825
>>11601962
Just look at those literal bugman eyes. You actually can see his soul crying out in despair.

>>11601999
Enhanced, verified and checked

>>11596399
Not that guy, but I loved Ulysses and am completely unable to read more than a page of FW.

>>11602183
Try reading it a few years down the road. I was the same way. Hated it. 5 years later, picked it back up and loved it.

>>11600996
Compare La Divina Commedia to Twilight, and you'll have your answer.

>>11595994
What's the best french translation for this?

>>11601825
You better be working on a novel, i want more of your style

>>11595994
This piece of literature is by far the greatest achievement by any mind in all of known history

>>11602761
I am not. I appreciate the compliment.
I deemed getting published a while ago to be unviable and closed to entry unless you know someone, as has been the case with many of my endeavors.
If this isn't so, let me know and I'll hapily begin writing a novel right away. This comes easily for me. That post wasn't even an example of my best writing. It took no more than 4 minutes to whip up.

>>11596863
>human animal
*buurrrppp*, were just animals morty.

>>11602634
No I don't, you are just comparing a literary masterpiece to a YA series. Try arguing why the Commedia is objectively better than either Hamlet or One Hundred Years of Solitude, and see if any comparison makes sense.

>>11603814
>One Hundred Years of Solitude
A good book but it lacks the genius and pure soul poured into it that the Divine Comedy has.
In terms of cultural impact, Dante is more important than almost any other author in the past 1000 years. Even though it wasn't translated to English for 400+ years later, he caused a resurgence of literature in soon-to-be Renaissance Italy which had reverberations 200 years later during the the 16th century English literary golden age.

>>11603814
it rhymes ABA, BCB, CDC, DED, etc all throughout the poem, it's an epic architecture in both content and form, I don't see any of that in the ones you mentioned, checkmate, faggot :D

>>11595994
Genuinely great. It's worth learning Italian for but it's remarkable how poetically it still translates.
Divine inspiration.

Is there a legit version of the Divine Comedy in Latin?
Does anyone know if the rumors are true that he originally made a Latin copy? Did it ever see the light of day?