/lit/ - Literature

Being is the 'indeterminate immediate' or some retarded shit like that

>>11591547
but that doesn't make sense

>>11591557
it does

what is pure Being?

something, right? it just is, right? what is it? something indeterminate, because if it was determinate it would be /a/ being, not Being

not that hard

>>11591557
I know

>>11591565
>being just “is”
Truly the sharpest mind of his era. Anyone who says Hegel was a charlatan doesn’t have a high enough IQ.

>>11591596
what was the beginning question dumbass.

“But the height of audacity in serving up pure nonsense, in stringing together senseless and extravagant mazes of words, such as had previously been known only in madhouses, was finally reached in Hegel, and became the instrument of the most barefaced general mystification that has ever taken place, with a result which will appear fabulous to posterity, and will remain as a monument to German stupidity.” Will and Idea

""Now if for this purpose I were to say that the so-called philosophy of this fellow Hegel is a colossal piece of mystification which will yet provide posterity with an inexhaustible theme for laughter at our times, that it is a pseudo-philosophy paralyzing all mental powers, stifling all real thinking, and, by the most outrageous misuse of language, putting in its place the hollowest, most senseless, thoughtless, and, as is confirmed by its success, most stupefying verbiage, I should be quite right. [...]" Basis of Morality

>>11591862
the possibility of this manlet's criticism towards Hegel might have been instigated by simple jealousy makes his barking insignificant.

>>11591596
>being just "is"
Pure being is naught, it is the absolute lack of quality, hence the indeterminacy. This is like right at the begining of the Logic man, why is everyone on /lit/ so incompetent?

>>11591831
A 5 year old would give you the same answer if you asked them what it means to "be".
>>11591882
So what Hegel is saying is that pure being "is" but "is not" anything in particular. Holy...I want more

>>11591932
>tfw no one reads Hegel but everyone is ready to critique strawmen eli5's they need because they don't read Hegel in the first place

>>11591950
well i read that pic and it really changed my whole perspective. this whole time I thought Hegel was a boring retard but my eyes are finally opened. so what if he's basically expressing the same notions that indians and chinese people figured out millennia ago. i'm so happy that now i'm gonna waste hours of my life deciphering this autistic garbage when i could've just read some zen koans.

>>11591547
>>11591557
Parmenides said it first.

>>11591950
Cringe, pure cringe, without any further determination.

>>11591950
I don't understand
that pic is very straightforward
people have a hard time with this?

>>11591995
yeah, Marx totally could have built his dialectic off zen koans, nothing else to be seen here boys, pack it up.

>>11592018
It's from the science of logic which isn't very hard to understand at all. It's a pretty good read if you're interested in Hegel. Phenomenology of Spirit is usually what gets people's panties in a twist and it is a fucking chore I'll admit.

>>11592006
Hegel's philosophical System is the logical exposition of the findings of the whole history of philosophy that preceded him, so, yes, many things in Hegel will have been "said first" by someone older, but no one had come along to say everything all at once.

>>11592047
i'm glad im not the only one—Vernunft in the Phenomenology is such a barren, boring wasteland of no-longer-relevant critique

>>11591950
>not reading Zizeck's synopsis of Hegel
>>11591516
>posting thumbnail Jezebels
pathetic

>>11592036
>implying i give a fuck about marx and his retardation

>>11592061
>he assumes I didn't go full meme

>>11592151
BASED

>>11592151
pure sex

>>11592151
>no hyppolite
not gonna make it, kid

>>11592151

>>11591995
haha dude based eastern wisdom *hits bong*

>>11592770
so you're basically admitting how embarrassing it is that it took hegel thousands of pages to discover the same thing eastern philosophy did in a few poems

>>11591557
it make sense actually

>>11591878
Kierkegaard and Russell also thought that Hegel was a joke.

>>11591950
>Heideggerfags will still claim the question of being has been forgotten in the history of western philosophy

>>11593509
>hegelfags will still never read being and time and never see the part where heidegger praises Hegel for being the first since the pre-socratics to reopen the inquiry into being and reframe it organically
I-is this the power of hegelian brainlets?

>>11591950

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/thomas/gospelthomas56.html

>>11592811
No Hegel's entire point is that his system is the discursive articulation of these ideas, he's not struggling to say what Zen has been saying all along with hundreds and hundreds of autistic pages, his point is the entire development of thought is still nothing but the continuous verification of this emptiness ("from Nothing, through Nothing, to Nothing"), and the phenomenology demonstrates this.

Summer /lit/ was a mistake

>>11591950
Amazing to see someone struggle so hard with problems the Late Platonists solved over one thousand years before.

>>11593690
>his point is the entire development of thought is still nothing but the continuous verification of this emptiness ("from Nothing, through Nothing, to Nothing")

That looks pretty much zen to me

>>11591932
No you fucking retard his entire point is that the dialectic immanently unfolds out of the fact that Being just is, that the entire movement, no matter how complex, still has its roots in an immediacy that even a child can understand

>>11593720
He's not struggling with them dude, he's expressing them discursively, as the deployment of a dialectic immanent to thought, he even says Proclus very nearly beat him to the punch 1000 years ago

>>11593722
Ya m8 I literally just said his system is this emptiness in the mode of thought, the dialectic can never stop precisely because there is no hard kernel of essence that will arrest it, history is the progressive dis-identification with modes of consciousness mobilized by emptiness that finally arrives at the full knowledge of itself as precisely just this movement of progressive dis-identification

>>11591950
Hegel stole this idea from Eriugena's Periphyseon.

>Periphyseon: The Four Divisions of Nature. Book One opens abruptly with the claim that ‘nature’ (natura), ‘the general term for all things that are and all things that are not,’ (I.441a), including both God and creation, is divided into four species. Echoing similar divisions in Augustine (De civitate Dei Bk. V. 9, PL xli.151) and Marius Victorinus (Ad Candidum), nature's four ‘divisions’ or ‘species’ are: that which creates and is not created (i.e. God); that which creates and is created (i.e. Primary Causes or Ideas); that which is created and does not create (i.e. Temporal Effects, created things); that which is neither created nor creates (i.e. non-being, nothingness). The first species of nature is God, “the cause of all things that are and that are not” (I.442b). There are several remarkable aspects of this division.

>First of all, division is defined by Eriugena in De praedestinatione as a branch of dialectic. Dialectic, moreover, is not just about the organization of words and thoughts but also describes the structure of reality itself. Secondly, the four divisions are not strictly a hierarchy in the usual Neoplatonic sense where there are higher and lower orders, rather, as Eriugena will explain, the first and fourth divisions both refer to God as the Beginning and End of all things, and the second and third divisions may also be thought to express the unity of the cause-effect relation. Finally, the division is an attempt to show that nature is a dialectical coming together of being and non-being. Creation is normally understood as coming into being from non-being. God as creator is then a kind of transcendent non-being above the being of creation.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/scottus-eriugena/#3.1

>>11591516
dunno what your heggle or whatever thinks but my view is you shoudn't post tiny pictures

>>11591516
Hegel more like kegel

>>11592235
this

>>11593744
So what? Hegel does not hide the fact that his systematic dialectics are the result of synthesizing meditation on the whole history of philosophy.

>>11593722
if anything it reminds more of heraclitus, with the unity of opposites that "dissolve" into each other "according to the Logos"

>>11594223
There's no synthesis of opposites in Hegel, the reconciliation is an effect of the incommensurability of any opposites

>>11591516
FUCK OFF OUT OF /LIT/ UNLESS YOU ARE DISCUSSING A BOOK, YOU FUCKING RETARD

>>11593726
So I was right the first time. Being just “is”. You Hegelians need to get your story straight it’s sorta embarrassing.

>>11592039
The Science of Logic or the Encyclopedia Logic? Because the former is fucking hard to work through, while the latter is pretty intelligible, if still difficult in passages.

>>11592811
His treatment of Being and Nothing is dealt with in literally the opening pages of the Science of Logic, and he immediately moves on to other subjects, but don't let that stop you from pretending to btfo out of the book you think you're talking about and not the one we're actually talking about.

>>11595942
They are remarkably similar, both in content and structure. The smaller Logic is certainly not "pretty intelligible" compared to the greater.

>>11594223
>>11594485
sublation involves the negation of negatives, not simply their commensuration, but to say that this process involves incommensurability is inherently un-Hegelian (the incommensurability of negatives would be the drives that pushes Deleuze to write D&R)

>>11592811
can you easternboos just hurry up and self-immolate already

>>11596051
no, there is still a reconciliation, the identity that is maintained in and through that incommensurability, there isn't a disconnect flat out, as deleuze would have it

>>11594190
Because the idea is only coherent within the Platonic system of procession and return. Once you remove the Form of Being from the Platonic Ontology of its procession-mode being pure Being and its return-mode being Nothingness then the designation of Being as also being Nothingness makes no sense.

Cherrypicking ideas and removing them from their systematic basis renders them incoherent. The reason that Being is also Nothingness in Eriugena depends on real Platonic Forms inhering in the material world, that are also the teleological cause for all particular things.

>>11596330
The irony is that Hegel was definitely an easternboo even if he didn't realise it.
> We are surprised, at first, to discover that the logic of the illogical in Zen is akin to Hegel's dialectical method. But it is no surprise at all if we note that Hegel's dialectical method is also the logic of life. The "fun" of contradiction, or "pretension" of the other, in the act of negating itself, is the comical impersonation of which Loewenberg speaks in describing Hegelian dialectic. "The logic called dialectical," writes Loewenberg, "is the logic of comedy par excellence. It is the logic by which ideas and beliefs are made to whip themselves, as it were, in the process of exhibiting their internal contradictions." It is the method of the self-alienation of the Absolute in Hegel's philosophy. Even in his legend, "The Naked Boy," Eckhart identifies the Naked Boy with God himself, "who was having a bit of fun." As early as 1800, when Hegel wrote his Fragment of a System, he knew that the dialectical method was the logic of life, for he regarded life as the "union of union and nonunion." Both Hegel and Zen thinkers assume the absolute viewpoint to be the ground of unity between A and not-A, being and not-being. The only difference is that the universal of universals in Hegel is the Absolute, while in Zen it is Nothing, which is a sort of Absolute itself.

>>11596819
Buddhism stole from Platonism and Pyrrho post-Alexander's conquest of India. The common origin of both Eastern and Hegel's ideas is the Greeks.

>>11591596
Being is more logically thought as capacity for [] and then whatever follows. But it is the "fillable" space that allows for ontic properties to arise.

>>11596853
What about this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aruni
>>11596819
Damn this actually sounds really interesting. I might finally have to take the Hegel-pill

>>11596934
>people itt try to discredit Hegel by comparing him to eastern philosophy
>accidentally create a new hegelian
Whenever you try to move away from Hegel, there you will find him again.

>>11596934
Mythological figure used in post-Alexandrian texts to back date ideas. No more real than Atlantis existing 9000 years before Plato. A literary device like all Eastern texts that supposedly cite pre-Greek thinkers, not a historical philosopher.

>>11591862
rekt

>>11596993
If this is true, is there literally ANYTHING on planet earth that isn't a result of western culture?

>>11597097
it isn't true, just take 5 seconds to think about it.

>>11597111
well you did get trips so I guess you're right