/lit/ - Literature

My friend Barnard recommend Clarion course for fatasy writers: http://clarion.ucsd.edu/

It cost money tho ^_^

>>1156610

Considering how vast the internet is I would prefer to not spend any money. Though if this is truly worth it I may give it a shot as I know you can't put a cost to your dreams.

One thing you need to realise about writing fantasy novels is that you are entering into a realm of writing that is the most exclusive, hard-to-crack genres next to SciFi. You can't just be 'good' to be successful - you need to be fantastic.

First thing is first; you need to build your world from the ground up. You need to know your world intimately before you even write the first word of the actual story. Just look at Robin Hobb for a basis of great world-building. Once all that is done, you need to plot out your story from woe to go.

I know some people out there can just sit down, write as it flows out, and write a masterpiece. But most people can't do that - you need to know where your story is going, and you need to make sure that every word you write adds to that flow.

I don't know about you, but I can't stand reading a shitty fantasy novel filled with terrible unneeded scenes. Also, you need to make sure your world has something that makes it unique from the other slew of fantasy authors out there.

To be continued..

Continued:

The reason you're 'failing' is that there is just too much information to keep track of in your head. You need some kind of reference to keep everything straight. Characters relationships, motivations, even the specifics about the weapons your characters use. If you get one thing wrong, it can take the believability out of the whole project.

I personally use a Wiki that is unaccessible to the public to do that, but a journal or word document will work just fine.

As for focus? That's all you buddy. When you start to write, you need to keep up the flow. Write every day. If you lose the momentum, the immediacy of the story is lost, and the story can suffer as a result.

Ultimately, you need to write because you enjoy it. If it's like pulling teeth, why bother? I recommend finding a place where you can write that is free from distraction. The very first thing you should do is unplug your computer from the internet during writing time, because you cannot get shit done while able to check your facebook/e-mail/4Chan boards.

>>I absolutely love R.A. Salvatore
>>love R.A. Salvatore
>>Salvatore

If that guy is what you aspire to be...*sigh*

>>1156627

Everything you said makes complete sense to me and I have never heard of Robin Hobb but I just googled her. I will have to read something by her now and I appreciate the reference.

As for the grammar and all my issues there, would anyone happen to know where I can find a thorough guide or lesson, preferably free, that would teach me?

Google Wave is a very useful tool for organization and just plain writing; all of your work is saved periodically, and the resource is on your own account on the internet. No chance of random power failures ruining hours of work! It also has the added benefit of being open to anyone you invite to it, so you can have editing and proofreading done by trusted individuals.

>>1156649

Honestly, no idea. I just paid a lot of attention during English back in high school. Never had an issue.

As far as Robin Hobb goes, start with the Farseer Trilogy, then the Liveship Traders Trilogy, then the Tawny Man Trilogy. She's currently doing her follow up to the Tawny Man Trilogy with the Dragon Keepers Chronicles.

12 books set in the same world. The rules she set down in the first book carried over to the last. It's a testament to how great a world builder she really is.

>>1156647

I don't exactly understand what you mean by that? Do you mean he is mediocre or do you just not like him? In my opinion he has a fantastic ability to describe scenes I have found to be lacking in others. Yes, most of those scenes are combat scenes but the overall morals and ethics he includes in his stories I find to be quite touching to who I am. Though that is my opinion on him, you are entitled to your own.

>>1156647
Salvatore is a capable writer who consistently weaves engaging and enthralling tales. What do you have against him?

>One thing you need to realise about writing fantasy novels is that you are entering into a realm of writing that is the most exclusive, hard-to-crack genres next to SciFi. You can't just be 'good' to be successful - you need to be fantastic.
>mf

>any tips with organization

Get yWriter. Get yWriter. Get yWriter.

GET. FUCKING. YWRITER. GO. NOW. DO IT.

If you use OS X, check out Scrivener and Boswell.

The first thing I got published started was a short story I had written in the middle of the night on a whim. I had a sudden burst of inspiration and I just had to get my thoughts on paper. It was one of those flukes where the piece was really good on it's first drafts and I've honestly never had another story that felt right that early again. I got it published, I read it in front of crowds and since then I've just been writing as much as possible. 99% of what I write is shit. The trick is not to be afraid to write shit. If something isn't all that great then examine it closely, see why it doesn't work, salvage what does work (I have a folder of scrap pieces of paper containing sentences or paragraphs that stood out from failed stories) and try and play around until it sounds better.

You should always question your word choices. Reread your work over and over and see if you can find different ways of saying what you just said. Even if you end up sticking with the sentence in it's original form, it really helps develop your skill in word choice.

>I know some people out there can just sit down, write as it flows out, and write a masterpiece. But most people can't do that - you need to know where your story is going, and you need to make sure that every word you write adds to that flow.

I used to write just stream of consciousness when I first started writing. It was fine with micro-fictions, short stories that are only a few pages in length but take it from me OP, having a plan helps immensely and grows exponentially more useful as you start writing longer and bigger things.

>>1156705

cont.

>>1156627
>>1156629

This guy pretty much has it right. Listen to him OP.

I can't stress enough that you need to keep writing everyday. Even if you have no inspiration. Writers write as a job. You don't have doctors waiting for inspiration before they write you a prescription. If you really want to become a writer you'll need to be able to write on demand, even when it hurts, or else you'll starve. It doesn't have to be good at your level. Just keep writing to keep your brain in shape. Writing is a skill and you'll get better at it the more you do it so don't stress out if what you write doesn't match the standards of your favorite authors. You'll find your voice in due time.

OP here again.

>>1156690

I just downloaded it and am beginning to mess with it. It actually seems like it will help immensely thank you a lot.

>>1156705

I suppose that's something I have never addressed but always felt was the fear of writing shit. When I think about it though to be more precise, it's not fear of writing shit because I love a lot of my ideas, it's more fear of writing it shitty and someone not giving it a chance. I guess maybe I stress over something as simple as grammar when I can always fix it. So thank you for the advice to write shit, lol. Also thank all of you for taking your time with me.

>>1156725

Just sit down and write dude. Write for yourself in the first draft. Just get it all out, and don't even worry about grammar and shit. That's what your revision of your first draft is for. The hardest part is getting the first draft of your first book done. It's almost like a psychological barrier that you need to break through. Once you've done that, it gets heaps easier brah.

>>1156729

This. The mental barrier is what kills most fledgling writers. Its not like your first draft is your final draft. Keep writing because right now, thinking about having this amazing novel is just going to distract you. You're at the stage where you need to write, no matter how shitty, so that you can develop your skills and find your voice. Write something and analyze it. Find out what you did wrong and keep that in mind the next time you put the pen down. Eventually (don't expect this over night OP) you'll you'll get better.

>>1156627
>One thing you need to realise about writing fantasy novels is that you are entering into a realm of writing that is the most exclusive, hard-to-crack genres next to SciFi. You can't just be 'good' to be successful - you need to be fantastic.

I disagree. You can be very successful and be very bad at the same time. Look at Terry Goodkind.

>>1157075
his personal fetishes aside Goodkind is actually a fairly good writer. I think you mean to point to Paolini, and frankly he only 'suceeded' because mommy and daddy paid for it.

The Elements of Style
William Strunk, Jr.
Asserting that one must first know the rules to break them, this classic reference book is a must-have for any student and conscientious writer. Intended for use in which the practice of composition is combined with the study of literature, it gives in brief space the principal requirements of plain English style and concentrates attention on the rules of usage and principles of composition most commonly violated. FREE
http://www.bartleby.com/141/

Write whatever, but do it religiously, and like learning a musical instrument you will improve. It is up to you what instrument you wish to play/ what you want to write. Only liked Drizzt novels, then got burned out, I think Salvatore's take on Dwarves is extremely GAY!

>>1157116

>The Elements of Style

No. No no no no no no no.

No.

http://chronicle.com/article/50-Years-of-Stupid-Grammar/25497

>>1157128
>>1157130

WOAH MIVEHIND.

>>1157116
>The Elements of Style

NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. Do not read this pile of shit.

>http://chronicle.com/article/50-Years-of-Stupid-Grammar/25497

The Elements of Style will make you retarded.

>>1157130

>>1157132

DIVEMINH HAOW

Geoff Pullum is a jealous wanker and an impotent nobody. The Elements of Style is a fine book brimming with spectacular advice.

>>1157130
>>1157128

Fuck you, dicks. Element's of Style is fucking god-tier advice.

>>1157110
This. If you ignore the objectivism (and hey, if you can, for example, ignore the soldier-sniffing in Starship Troopers, you can ignore the objectivism in SoT), the Sword of Truth series is pretty damn good. The first half, at any rate.

>>1157150
>>1157110

Is that so? I often hear Goodkind be made fun of here on /lit/. I've never read any of his work before but I did see an interview with him on TV once and he seemed like a pretty nice guy. I know that being nice and being a good writer isn't related at all (lol Harlan Ellison) but still.

>>1157158
yeah, the first book is basically your cookie-cutter "Hero's trek" story. Nothing particularly innovative about it, but generally well done. Then he starts sprinkling in rape and torture and that gets a little weird, then the main character starts getting a few TOO many powers (he starts off just having a magic sword and by the end of book 12 he's the all-powerful, best wizard ever, best fighter ever, savior of the universe) and finally Goodkind tops it off by veering wildly into preachy "altruism is evil" mode. Like to the point where people act WILDLY out of character just to prove a point.

>>1157143

>impotent nobody

Yeah, it's not like he helped write a substantial, highly respected book of English grammar or anything.

>>1157176
Yeah, it's not like every lame academia-camper hasn't shat out a book according to the publish-or-perish mantra. He's surely a unique and respected individual whose work you were familiar with and didn't just Google.

>>1157180

You're right, everyone fresh out of the University of Alabama is cranking out 2000 page books detailing English grammar.

>>1157143

Where exactly is he wrong, then?

>>1157181
>fresh out of
I don't think you understood me.

>>1157183

I think you're dodging the central point.

He helped write a 2000 page book on English grammar. Said book has gotten excellent (scholarly) reviews. That elevates him above "impotent nobody".

>>1157198
no, he's not. If you've been any sort of decent college at all, you'd know that EVERY professor has written a "well-reviewed scholarly work." They're required to.

>>1157172
>Rape and torture

hmm, sort of want.

>>1157214
yeah, it was ok at first as iike a "holy shit the bad guys are BAD" kinda deal, but later on it just gets fucking old. I'm not sure how to explain it, but when you start skipping the rape scenes with an air of "yeah, yeah get to something we don't know", that's not good.

The best tip I ever heard was from my father. He lived near and gamed with Roger Zelazny in the early 1980s, and was a huge sci-fi nerd. One time, he asked him how the hell he got started writing. His advice?

"Start small. Don't start out by trying to write a novel. Too many people burn out on that. Start with short poems. Move on to short stories. Build your ideas bigger and bigger, until you know the story you're writing down is something people want to hear. Never stop reading everything; other writers outside of SF are an inspiration too many people ignore."

They lost touch before I was born, unfortunately, and the stories he told when I started picking up Zelazny's work were incredible.

>>1157260

This. The last part is less obvious and often forgotten by most would be SF/Fantasy writers. They tend to only read one genre and ignore the rest.

>>1157260
>He lived near and gamed with Roger Zelazny in the early 1980s

i jelly